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[Vox_Preliator]

Yeah, we all should take an Economics 101 class.

Because within the first two weeks they'll teach Supply and Demand basics and then we might notice that in Warframe there's nigh infinite supply and very finite demand so by not requiring the time investment of Trading prices would plummet making it harder for a non-paying player to accumulate Platinum for use in the Market.

Do people just think the thing that has happened over and over and over again in games with automated online markets just, what, won't happen this time?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Just now, IIAc3sII said:

Sorry, but so you even bother to read anything?

There is no junk prime offering, no junk prime prices, stop taking things out of context.

He was selling two chroma prime chassis for 2p each, I wanted to buy those, then I said if he had more items such as this and ONLY IF HE WISHED he could also sell them for 2p each to me.

If he did not wish to sell anything else then he could have still sold the 2x chroma, if he wanted to sell more (which honestly, some people are happy to do) then he could have done so.

Instead, I got an instant ignore, and apparently now your telling me I was toxic and for this I should get ignored?

Either way, chat and trade should not be intertwined, people like yourself are incapable of not abusing the ignore mechanic just out of spite or any slight disagreement or misunderstanding you might get in your head.

I did read it, and I responded to it both times. The 2p you offered is prime junk pricing. Asking for stuff you intended to convert into ducats = asking for prime junk. 

Talking about 'only if he wished' means that you are probably under the impression that there are times when they'd have to trade under your terms even if they don't wish. Just as you seem to think that people shouldn't be allowed to ignore you for any reason whatsoever. 

Demanding higher value prime junk for base junk prices, told me more than enough about you to know that I don't care to trade with someone like you. At all. So like them I would have forfeit the 2plat and left. 

 

The fact that you're not getting this is telling. 

[Avienas]

10 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

Really? Cause if an item costs 45 plat now, all it takes is 44 people one upping each other for a quick profit for the item's price to plummet down to 1 plat. Which will happen, with a population of well over 30 million players.

Honestly its the SAME gripe ever time i see one of these topics resurface but heres some nutshells i picked up from previous threads which could LIKELY settle alot of the issues:

• Create a Market board but people can only put a limited number of single only items, based on MR on how many you can do, likely up to a max of 4 at roughly MR 24 or higher. Just like how people get extra trades based on MR. So complaining on making this system MR-required would be a arsie maneuver since trading is already linked to mastery level.
• Players cannot see what value whatever items on requests to buy X item and offer to sell X item were placed by other players. Instead they only see how much previous items were sold/bought at and what date (not the specific time!) they were sold at so they get a rough idea what the general points people were doing. Plus maybe show how many are in stock (with simply coming out with greyed out results that you can check if any of them were still ever sold). Might incentive-ize players to use sites like warframe.market a tad bit more nyeh?
• Plus of course have other restrictions like a Cooldown on when you can list new items after they got removed either by being sold, manually removed or you `update` the pricing you put, that starts when you first put up the item. Maybe a penalty of endo cost for the latter, since credits are so absurdly easy to get that only newbies would have issues on the credit trade tax bit.

Granted i am sure plenty of people will white knight and say such systems will just crash the market further, but what i listed out are just some partial ideas on ways to make people think a bit more when they throw out sells/buys and maybe get them to take advantage slightly of the blind marketing to put the value of goods much higher then usual since even if a person puts a item up for 1 plat. If the next buyer were to offer 10 plat instead. they would get the item for 10 plat since thats what they wanted to pay for it. Of course extra bonus...

• To prevent what i call Bid-fishing where a player would spam bid offers at the lowest and likely go up by 1 at a time, they could easily put in a 2 to 5 minute cooldown after the first bid on that offer, if they were to fail to get the item and if they do 2 more bids after that it goes up to 15 mins and then every bid fail after that they get a longer CD on that particular item to bid on. Might sound scummy but it would likely further incentivize players to follow the pricing history average then doing what the supposed riven mafia do of buying so called `junk` low and then hike it up to a value of 500~1k+ plat without needing to reroll it to make it godlike.

Now since i am sick and tired of getting people constantly shutting down the ideas, usually with no proper backing or the same excuse over and over again. I would instead rather ya`ll either describe a much better system to replace the `EverQuest Market Chat System` that D.E. continues to want to use or be VERY elaborate on explaining your counter-reasoning then just repeating what all the white knights are saying.

Aka the usual drivel of: It will crash prices and make things absurdly cheap or the supply will become so huge that no one will be able to sell things. We have Baro for one particular sink, endo for statues, riven mods have transmutation, reroll and some even want dupes for specific line loadouts.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Avienas

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, IIAc3sII said:

The fact that you would ignore any person for something like this is telling enough too.

But you can stop now, its pointless to have a normal conversation because you will just keep saying I'm somehow the toxic one, while all I'm trying to do is demonstrate how many people abuse the "ignore" function of chat in trade situations simply because they disagree with something, or they simply do it out of spite, which was never the intended reason why the ignore list got implemented to begin with, its there to stop harassment.

Certain people these days (and I count you among them), would rather put someone on permanent ignore instead of simply asking them to discontinue the chat, or better yet, you can simply not even respond, or best of all, you could explain to them why your getting worked up or what they "might" be doing wrong, according to you.

That is social interaction, as opposed to putting someone on permanent ignore instantly, which is complete asocial interaction.

And it is exactly this kind of abuse of the ignore list that has lasting ramifications on the trading as well, which is why trading and chat should have nothing to do with each other because trading should be based on platinum, not on "feelings" or "social interaction" with people that put you instantly on ignore because they have such thin skin that even a raindrop would break.

Overall, I would say DE's vision of making trading a "social interaction" experience is a complete failure, because of the things I just mentioned, but most of all because 99% of the time we copy paste text from a third party website anyway.

What you have done is demonstrate why people are justified in using the ignore feature. 

Interestingly the forum also has such a feature. And just like in game chat, we're perfectly within our rights to make use of it when dealing with people who just can't figure out what is going on and why what they're doing isn't meshing with what many people consider acceptable. 

 

[Avienas]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

What you have done is demonstrate why people are justified in using the ignore feature. 

Interestingly the forum also has such a feature. And just like in game chat, we're perfectly within our rights to make use of it when dealing with people who just can't figure out what is going on and why what they're doing isn't meshing with what many people consider acceptable. 

 

Honestly because no one can keep track of consistent averages on goods to follow a average when dealing with goods, we do not even have a holy manual that somehow teaches how to do marketing in that chat nor does it grand us the capability to know if an item is lowering in value or rising in value. Which normally you would THINK when a item just recently came out, it would be high in demand for a few days, while an item that has been out for a while will have a low value and a item that has been vaulted or just got recently out of the vault would also have a high-ish demand.

All that is what warframe market is a wild mess of people shouting whatever the heck they feel like and usually not caring what everyone else is shouting, with only those who can suffer digging thru market chats mess to read some of it, they can get a rough idea what some others might be saying, but they likely will not care most of the time. Namely since they can`t even trust those values easily 5 minutes later when suddenly people are shouting the same items at less then half the value with no explanation being visible at all in the scrolling chaotic mess we call market chat, for those who can somehow read thru market chat with no filters on and can memorize the crap before it vanishes due to the walls of riven/prime set spam some people are barfing out.

Which gets further worsen where they either spam the value they want to where people just put them on ignore cause its a recurring message or they demand either a much higher value if the person is wanting to buy it or demanding a much lower value if they are wanting to sell it. 

But of course those that are being the seekers of buying/selling goods have to somehow magically whip up a rough idea on what they need to throw out for the PMOs and likely dig thru a maze of the trash known as market chat just to find someone offering/requesting what that seeker desires and its usually whoever bodyslams that individual first to give what one of the seekrs want unless said individual just decides to secretly accept what the seeker pmo`d and not care if the other seekers stand around waiting to get a response back, while they stare at a cardboard cut out of the individual, thinking they are just afk.

I would likely ask  you questions but i believe i would just make them rhetorical ones since i feel you would just do snarky responses back, usually followed by this in some form: Do X thing only and stop doing Y thing cause X thing is more useful despite Y thing is just as mandatory as X thing to have any decency of whatever they are involved in.

But for Cripes sakes, how is one suppose to do marketing of goods if they cant even trust something like warframe.market on the records shown their on the platform they play warframe on and then expect to get a sale of whether them buying/selling within 3 attempts to contact different people who were just posting within 1-3 minutes of them posting the wtb/wts they put up, respectively?

Edited September 27, 2019 by Avienas

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

14 minutes ago, Avienas said:

All that is what warframe market is a wild mess of people shouting whatever the heck they feel like and usually not caring what everyone else is shouting, with only those who can suffer digging thru market chats mess to read some of it, they can get a rough idea what some others might be saying, but they likely will not care most of the time. Namely since they can`t even trust those values easily 5 minutes later when suddenly people are shouting the same items at less then half the value with no explanation being visible at all in the scrolling chaotic mess we call market chat, for those who can somehow read thru market chat with no filters on and can memorize the crap before it vanishes due to the walls of riven/prime set spam some people are barfing out.

Which gets further worsen where they either spam the value they want to where people just put them on ignore cause its a recurring message or they demand either a much higher value if the person is wanting to buy it or demanding a much lower value if they are wanting to sell it. 

And yet somehow many people manage to do what you claim is impossible? That suggests that it's less impossible than you make it out to be, but also that the same thing you claim plagues the current system with people drastically undercutting the going rates, will be happening in the proposed auction houses. Of course when you multiply the number of potential concurrent sellers up into the millions that effect you're currently whining about would probably be made many times worse, wouldn't it? 

I'll wait for you to figure it out. 

[Avienas]

2 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Yeah, we all should take an Economics 101 class.

Because within the first two weeks they'll teach Supply and Demand basics and then we might notice that in Warframe there's nigh infinite supply and very finite demand so by not requiring the time investment of Trading prices would plummet making it harder for a non-paying player to accumulate Platinum for use in the Market.

Do people just think the thing that has happened over and over and over again in games with automated online markets just, what, won't happen this time?

ANY game has infinite supply and using the argument of platinum is a limited resource is getting rather out of hand at this point. Since people can just as easily use items like AYATAN STATUES as alternative currency for trading/bartering. Can`t recall the online game specifically but i remember said game literally using resources as alternate payment that said community would use to exchange for goods instead of money currency since it was possible to get your hands on it more easily and it was a pain in the arse to acquire the actual currency, since people had to literally get the resources to make said currency which lead to people keeping things at a reasonable price, though likely it did not help that since the nodes to get the ore nodes to make said currencies would often get camped and since there was a limited number of them, well it put a rather good stranglehold on that for those that were greedy nutjobs.

Warframe has just devolved into the need of plat so much that honestly i would not mind if D.E. just stop making plat UNtradable, even if it would completely crash fashion frame as a result of it. Very least it MIGHT make people be forced to stop the crazy fest with the market chat and platnium in general and start valuing farmable goods as the new currency instead of being left in such a chaotic system that you could likely do 10 trades for prime sets and likely end up with probably a 30~60% variance on what you ended up paying even if they were the same exact warframe prime set.

I mean, PLENTY of free to play games exist that never needed to make a premium currency trade-able to thrive, perhaps we need to think more on the question on how healthy tradable premium currency is in warframe now?

Edited September 27, 2019 by Avienas

[Avienas]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And yet somehow many people manage to do what you claim is impossible? That suggests that it's less impossible than you make it out to be, but also that the same thing you claim plagues the current system with people drastically undercutting the going rates, will be happening in the proposed auction houses. Of course when you multiply the number of potential concurrent sellers up into the millions that effect you're currently whining about would probably be made many times worse, wouldn't it? 

I'll wait for you to figure it out. 

You know you CERTAINLY love saying that, X is still working, but Auction house will be worse alot you know that? Its seriously not even worth trying to get thru your thick skull since you keep wanting to repeat over and over again despite how i tried listing other ideas in different threads then just the usual shut down comment of: AH is totally bad despite the fact that Market chat is in a bad state. Literally sounds like a political election of deciding which is the lesser evil people rather take since any of the candidates who actually had good ideas got butchered in social media means or thrown under the bus metaphorically so they had no chance at all to stand, kind of like how you seemed rather keep to cling to the part of that other person`s comment being about offering `prime junk` as you basically called it, when it sounds more like the person was likely following the pricing the other person put up on warframe.market.

Oh plus the other person did not even take the time to comment back at them to state why they are not ok with said price and give out a counter offer, kind of NICE that the person had the decency to say a message and put them on ignore though, which certainly is more toxic then just not saying anything to them at all.

How about instead of you constantly saying that X thing should never come to pass, how about YOU list out other ideas on how market chat could be improved in some form to address the frustrations people have. Since i would like to think people would like the simple idea of just having: The ability to write a message and it plays on repeat in market chat every time the cooldown is done and it pings the poster when someone pings that message so that the poster could suspend it to respond back to them or likely have some quick respond buttons to decline the offer they offered or to show they are interested in the offer.

 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Avienas

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

6 minutes ago, Avienas said:

You know you CERTAINLY love saying that, X is still working, but Auction house will be worse alot you know that? Its seriously not even worth trying to get thru your thick skull since you keep wanting to repeat over and over again despite how i tried listing other ideas in different threads then just the usual shut down comment of: AH is totally bad despite the fact that Market chat is in a bad state. Literally sounds like a political election of deciding which is the lesser evil people rather take since any of the candidates who actually had good ideas got butchered in social media means or thrown under the bus metaphorically so they had no chance at all to stand, kind of like how you seemed rather keep to cling to the part of that other person`s comment being about offering `prime junk` as you basically called it, when it sounds more like the person was likely following the pricing the other person put up on warframe.market.

Oh plus the other person did not even take the time to comment back at them to state why they are not ok with said price and give out a counter offer, kind of NICE that the person had the decency to say a message and put them on ignore though, which certainly is more toxic then just not saying anything to them at all.

How about instead of you constantly saying that X thing should never come to pass, how about YOU list out other ideas on how market chat could be improved in some form to address the frustrations people have. Since i would like to think people would like the simple idea of just having: The ability to write a message and it plays on repeat in market chat every time the cooldown is done and it pings the poster when someone pings that message so that the poster could suspend it to respond back to them or likely have some quick respond buttons to decline the offer they offered or to show they are interested in the offer.

 

Weird. You are upset about me repeating myself to explain why certain things are not acceptable, but you would berate people for not bothering to repeatedly explain why certain things are not acceptable to a person who clearly shows that they're not capable of figuring it out despite having simple explanations given. 

 

Suggests to me that you have no idea what you really want, other than to complain. 

 

Regarding the issues that you have with trade chat, I've repeatedly explained that using a single positive filter is highly effective at making the chat more manageable. Having a small number of positive filters works quite well. Unfortunately many people don't seem to think logically enough to figure out how they work. 

Also putting such a filter on, allows you to gauge the prices being asked for the items. That in turn lets you figure out what's a fair price to ask for. 

 

Learning to make effective use out of the tools we already have, is a rather powerful suggestion. 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

33 minutes ago, Avienas said:

ANY game has infinite supply and using the argument of platinum is a limited resource is getting rather out of hand at this point. Since people can just as easily use items like AYATAN STATUES as alternative currency for trading/bartering. Can`t recall the online game specifically but i remember said game literally using resources as alternate payment that said community would use to exchange for goods instead of money currency since it was possible to get your hands on it more easily and it was a pain in the arse to acquire the actual currency, since people had to literally get the resources to make said currency which lead to people keeping things at a reasonable price, though likely it did not help that since the nodes to get the ore nodes to make said currencies would often get camped and since there was a limited number of them, well it put a rather good stranglehold on that for those that were greedy nutjobs.

You completely failed to grasp what "finite demand" means. It's not that plat is limited, it's that the number of people who are willing to pay anything for the stuff you're selling is a lot closer to zero, than the number of people who have absolutely no interest in buying your wares.

 

For example if you are selling a helios prime set, I have 3. I wouldn't pay you in plat, Ayatans, lenses, fish or any other resource because I don't want what you are selling. High supply, low demand, so price falls until the whole set is considered prime junk. 

[(PSN)Onder6099]

11 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

Well, some people are born like that... Unfortunately.

I don’t think so. Everyone is born innocent, we will met greed and envy during our journey thru life and it’s up on us how we will handle with them and i’m afraid that Topics like these are just a proof that those deadly sins are somehow “normal”.

[schilds]

Trading is part of gameplay, not separate from it and automating trading would be like automating any other part of the game.

[Avienas]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I don’t think so. Everyone is born innocent, we will met greed and envy during our journey thru life and it’s up on us how we will handle with them and i’m afraid that Topics like these are just a proof that those deadly sins are somehow “normal”.

Lets try to keep the philosophical elements out of the way before someone somehow devolves this into some kind of religious argument. Especially with the elements of one`s environment are part of that topic, the womb`s condition they were born in whether its due to the parent had a healthy lifestyle or not or they were born in a test tube. Anyway again lets try to keep the topic on track and simplified down.

Never the less its a difference between a BUSINESS simulator and actually having things not be an annoyance to manage. Because technically ANYTHING  really is a business simulator: You do X task to acquire goal A whether its an object, state or just an achievement. The management of mods, riven acquiring/cycling/resale, building things whether they are resources/warframes/weapons/etc. , repeated using of things to re-tune it with forma to perfect it, all of it could basically be loosely tied to a business simulator.

Anyway as stated in many of my posts: My Ultimate Desire with Market Chat`s situation is SOME KIND OF CHANGE HAPPENS. Whether they decide to put a AH in, improve market chat by letting players set a automated message in market chat and simply get inbox/PM messages with a auto ping system when players who are interested give a `reply back` with quick response input players can do while they are in the middle of other content to state if they are interested/not with a simple open of the inbox or so and quick click one of the two options with of course if the person does not reply within 5 minutes they would get a unavaible message for the reply back instead, scrap market chat completely and force everyone to use Maroo`s bazaar instead or JUST OUTRIGHT REMOVE THE ABILITY TO TRADE PLATINUM BETWEEN PLAYERS to force players to use items for bartering instead.

Well, something would be nice for SOMETHANG to occur, instead of how just like how in market chat pretty often, i usually get hit with silence even if i wait 30 minutes on 3 to 6 different people i PM`d to sell them an item they want to buy at likely 50~60% the price what the items were normally are. Which feels rather sad when you could be offering a syndicate mod at 5 plat when they are normally 10 and you get no reply back at all to someone who wanted to buy said mod and did not state a price, just for one of the examples.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Avienas

[schilds]

@IIAc3sII

If trading is in the game and requires player input, it's part of gameplay.

If it's not in the game, or it's something that's handled for you (because it's automated, say), it's not part of gameplay.

 

Your proposal to have trading automated and your proposal to label it not gameplay are really just the same proposal repackaged.

 

 

[(PSN)Onder6099]

19 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Lets try to keep the philosophical elements out of the way before someone somehow devolves this into some kind of religious argument. Especially with the elements of one`s environment are part of that topic, the womb`s condition they were born in whether its due to the parent had a healthy lifestyle or not or they were born in a test tube. Anyway again lets try to keep the topic on track and simplified down.

Never the less its a difference between a BUSINESS simulator and actually having things not be an annoyance to manage. Because technically ANYTHING  really is a business simulator: You do X task to acquire goal A whether its an object, state or just an achievement. The management of mods, riven acquiring/cycling/resale, building things whether they are resources/warframes/weapons/etc. , repeated using of things to re-tune it with forma to perfect it, all of it could basically be loosely tied to a business simulator.

Anyway as stated in many of my posts: My Ultimate Desire with Market Chat`s situation is SOME KIND OF CHANGE HAPPENS. Whether they decide to put a AH in, improve market chat by letting players set a automated message in market chat and simply get inbox/PM messages with a auto ping system when players who are interested give a `reply back` with quick response input players can do while they are in the middle of other content to state if they are interested/not with a simple open of the inbox or so and quick click one of the two options with of course if the person does not reply within 5 minutes they would get a unavaible message for the reply back instead, scrap market chat completely and force everyone to use Maroo`s bazaar instead or JUST OUTRIGHT REMOVE THE ABILITY TO TRADE PLATINUM BETWEEN PLAYERS to force players to use items for bartering instead.

Well, something would be nice for SOMETHANG to occur, instead of how just like how in market chat pretty often, i usually get hit with silence even if i wait 30 minutes on 3 to 6 different people i PM`d to sell them an item they want to buy at likely 50~60% the price what the items were normally are. Which feels rather sad when you could be offering a syndicate mod at 5 plat when they are normally 10 and you get no reply back at all to someone who wanted to buy said mod and did not state a price, just for one of the examples.

You need Plat for Slots only, it can be covered by buying single PA, everything else is what I stated.

[Steel_Rook]

22 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If enough of you were to come over, I suspect that we could sell the salt from the tears for a penny per tonne and still make a fortune. 

I have you on ignore for comments like that, but people keep quoting you so let me address your post. Don't bother responding - I have you on ignore.

 

22 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The prices are inflated by a factor of 4? How on earth are you able to justify those mental gymnastics? 

In comparison to other F2P games. Warframe has four boosters - Credits, Affinity, Resource Drop Change, Resource Drop Amount. At 200 Plat each for 30 days, that's 800 Plat for all of them per month, or $50 for 1000 Plat since we can't buy precise amounts. World of Tanks has a single Booster - Premium Account. It offers double XP, double Credits, "double XP per battle" for five battles of your choosing and a the ability to bank additional Credits per battle. This costs ~$16. Before F2P, MMO subscription fees ran exactly $15. Before it shut down in 2012, City of Heroes offered a Premium Subscription fee of $15 for which you got additional gated content and a "stipend" of 800 cash shop points worth $10. Warframe has the reputation of being a "fair" F2P game, but it has cash shop prices to rival those of Chinese P2W MMOs. A single Warframe at 300 Plat alone would set me back $20, which is approaching the cost of the stupidly overpriced Premium vehicles in World of Tanks.

By contrast, look at prices with 75% off. 800 Plat for all four boosters (1000 Plat with the new one) sets one back $12.5 (~€10) - comparable to other F2P Premium subscription models. A 300-plat Warframe sets me back $5, comparable to a character + gun DLC in Payday 2. At 75% off, Warframe's cash shop prices approach those of similar Live Service titles and become affordable to your average Joe. At base cost, however, Warframe's cash shop items are MASSIVELY overpriced, which to me reads like a company deliberately jacking up prices so they can pass the actual expected value as a "discount." It's what Bethesda did with their Christmas items for Fallout 76, launching them on "discount" with fake "real" prices listed to make the items appear more valuable than they actually were. Hell, it's what clothing stores do all the time by selling pants at regular price but attaching a "Discounted from <double the price> for today only!" tag.

I realise that 75% off isn't the case on Console and you have my condolences for that. However, just because YOU are getting massively fleeced doesn't change the fact that DE set their prices to roughly match similar F2P titles, multipled them by 4 and occasionally offer a 1/4th discount in order to convince whales like me to buy in bulk. It's simple marketing. For as much as Warframe gets praised for their "fair" monetisation, I have to keep reminding people that they're using every psychological marketing trick in the book, from FOMO to timed exclusives to prestige items to bundle-only items to - yes - fake discounts.

[FrostDragoon]

15 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

For as much as Warframe gets praised for their "fair" monetisation, I have to keep reminding people that they're using every psychological marketing trick in the book, from FOMO to timed exclusives to prestige items to bundle-only items to - yes - fake discounts.

That's why it doesn't matter how much I love the game, I tell people that there are definitely p2w walls/gates in the game that make a truly f2p experience either unlikely, or excruciatingly grindy (and not the good kind of grind)--by design.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

22 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

I have you on ignore for comments like that, but people keep quoting you so let me address your post. Don't bother responding - I have you on ignore.

Sorry, but idgaf?

😜

22 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

In comparison to other F2P games. Warframe has four boosters - Credits, Affinity, Resource Drop Change, Resource Drop Amount. At 200 Plat each for 30 days, that's 800 Plat for all of them per month, or $50 for 1000 Plat since we can't buy precise amounts. World of Tanks has a single Booster - Premium Account. It offers double XP, double Credits, "double XP per battle" for five battles of your choosing and a the ability to bank additional Credits per battle. This costs ~$16. Before F2P, MMO subscription fees ran exactly $15. Before it shut down in 2012, City of Heroes offered a Premium Subscription fee of $15 for which you got additional gated content and a "stipend" of 800 cash shop points worth $10. Warframe has the reputation of being a "fair" F2P game, but it has cash shop prices to rival those of Chinese P2W MMOs. A single Warframe at 300 Plat alone would set me back $20, which is approaching the cost of the stupidly overpriced Premium vehicles in World of Tanks.

By contrast, look at prices with 75% off. 800 Plat for all four boosters (1000 Plat with the new one) sets one back $12.5 (~€10) - comparable to other F2P Premium subscription models. A 300-plat Warframe sets me back $5, comparable to a character + gun DLC in Payday 2. At 75% off, Warframe's cash shop prices approach those of similar Live Service titles and become affordable to your average Joe. At base cost, however, Warframe's cash shop items are MASSIVELY overpriced, which to me reads like a company deliberately jacking up prices so they can pass the actual expected value as a "discount." It's what Bethesda did with their Christmas items for Fallout 76, launching them on "discount" with fake "real" prices listed to make the items appear more valuable than they actually were. Hell, it's what clothing stores do all the time by selling pants at regular price but attaching a "Discounted from <double the price> for today only!" tag.

I realise that 75% off isn't the case on Console and you have my condolences for that. However, just because YOU are getting massively fleeced doesn't change the fact that DE set their prices to roughly match similar F2P titles, multipled them by 4 and occasionally offer a 1/4th discount in order to convince whales like me to buy in bulk. It's simple marketing. For as much as Warframe gets praised for their "fair" monetisation, I have to keep reminding people that they're using every psychological marketing trick in the book, from FOMO to timed exclusives to prestige items to bundle-only items to - yes - fake discounts.

So... Just to be clear, you're comparing 2012 subscription fee prices for games that went belly up, to 2019 prices? And that's not mentioning the fact that your math shows major disparities between the values, and (everything from $10 to $15 which when multiplied by 4 gives everything from $40 to $60) because that's what happens when you reduce things by a large enough factor, the numbers which have big differences suddenly have much smaller, more easily dismissed differences. 

I won't say that crap isn't expensive, but let's be honest for a bit. Most of the stuff in the shop is expensive because it's a form of luxury tax. The real cost of the warframes in the shop is "time". I work hard, am paid well, and can afford to pay for the frames, but generally don't. Instead my plat goes to buying slots for all the crap I'm collecting, and trading for Primes. 

[FrostDragoon]

This idiocy behind these replies is astounding...

3 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So... Just to be clear, you're comparing 2012 subscription fee prices for games that went belly up, to 2019 prices?

1. Missing the point.

2. Several of those games are still around. Nothing "belly up" about it.

3. Year has nothing to do with anything, because those practices are still around and are still common.

If it's this easy to dissect the first sentence of his "argument," do I even need to be the one to destroy the rest of that nonsense?

[Uhkretor]

I don’t think so. Everyone is born innocent, we will met greed and envy during our journey thru life and it’s up on us how we will handle with them and i’m afraid that Topics like these are just a proof that those deadly sins are somehow “normal”.

Yeah, well... You probably misunderstood what I said...

 

... But since you're pointing out that "everyone is born innocent" and that "people change" due to things that are rubbed, thrown, stabbed and/or fired at their faces through the course of their lives, really... Let me point out that, within the womb, the soon-to-be child inherits the traits of their family tree up to the 5th generation... And because of that, the soon-to-be child may, or may not, be born innocent. The theory of "Under the right circumstances (...)" applies to everything. This can be present even before birth, up to the 5th generation, and it doesn't even need to be directly related. So, after all I've mentioned just now...

21 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

Well, some people are born like that... Unfortunately.

Life teaches nothing new on those cases. It only brings whatever they have underneath their skin, back to the surface for all to see, and it even reinforces whatever they're hiding... And, lets face it, its a lot easier to let those out when you're sitting behind a screen instead of being face to face.

 

I'm personally content in trading what I can, for the meager cost that cosmetics have. The way I manage my inventory, slots are the least of my worries if not outright expendable...

And even if I wanted to trade something more valuable, I have other tools available that will most likely help me to trade, other than the trading chat. One of those tools is exactly the same one that allowed the creation of this topic, so~... I don't know, humanity's greatest ability is the ability to adapt and~... Pretty much anyone that has created topics of this nature, just as this one, only shows me that they lack the ability to adapt to the reality their facing.

 

Before I forget though:

9 hours ago, Avienas said:

i usually get hit with silence even if i wait 30 minutes on 3 to 6 different people i PM`d to sell them an item they want to buy at likely 50~60% the price what the items were normally are.

Or vice-versa, Avienas.. But they don't want just 50~60%... They only want to buy from you, hypothetical example, if you sell them at 500% cheaper price than what they usually go for, so that whoever buys it will sell it for a 600% more expensive price than what they usually go for.

That 50~60% margin is too expensive for them if they're buying, and too low of a profit margin if they're the ones selling.

Also, how can you wait for 30 minutes for a reply? I only wait it out for 2 minutes, and if I don't get a reply then I simply go to the next one on the list, especially if it was a price that they chose.

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, Uhkretor said:

 

Before I forget though:

Or vice-versa, Avienas.. But they don't want just 50~60%... They only want to buy from you, hypothetical example, if you sell them at 500% cheaper price than what they usually go for, so that whoever buys it will sell it for a 600% more expensive price than what they usually go for.

If we are talking resell of prime parts or riven mods then most would likely pull that gag, but when it comes to mods, ayatan statues, gems, fish, etc. the idea of them wanting to resell those for much more is kind of ridiculous in itself. Please do not over over-think particular elements.

1 hour ago, Uhkretor said:

Also, how can you wait for 30 minutes for a reply? I only wait it out for 2 minutes, and if I don't get a reply then I simply go to the next one on the list, especially if it was a price that they chose.

Try to do a double read on what i post, i basically stated i would have multiple PMs up that i sent to various wtb messages, what i would do is i would keep each tab open, sometimes its only 5 to 10 minutes but if i am not getting alot of traffic despite having very CLEAR CUT filters to not interfere with most wtbs and what not, i can usually be a bit patient. Which helps we can use time stamps and what not.

Never the less i would think my even most simplistic idea now has little room to be argued. Just let a player set up a automated message with a shorter text limit of say 30 or so letters and people could just click the message in market chat, pop a ping they are interested with likely a comment tied to it and then the person who set up the message would get it pinged to them regardless of what they are doing, so they can quick ping back they are going with the deal. With anyone else who do not get a ping back from the one who set the message up, will get a auto-decline message after 5 minutes or maybe less then that.

The only automated bit would be the messaging part and the negotiation, chatter between the players after the ping was `accepted` and actually having them both run to a dojo to do the sale would be all thats left, killing most of the frustation out while still having the so-called player interaction present. With the major QoL being the removal of the need to babysit market chat for your messages. Plus they can easily disable the automated messages if a player afks for more then 15 or so minutes (aka no player action) and remove the automated message immediately if the player goes offline. Very sure plenty are FRUSTRATED too when you could reply to someone within 2 minutes of them posting and they are all of a sudden offline.

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

23 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

Yeah, as if Credits have any sort of value. Plus, auction houses/trading houses usually encourage dumping the inventory, so yeah, even the time investment will be worth it.

Well, since you recommended me Economics 101, I will recommend you reading classes:

 

Okay Economics isnt your strong suit, I see. You dont understand that Supply and Demand goes both ways. It will prevent people selling extremely cheap (market gets flooded, nobody buys) and will prevent price gouging on the high (to be "more expensive than Primed Chamber")

Show me whos buying rivens for over 80,000 plat? And even if someone did, why do you care? Youre not their parent

Now for Common Sense 101 - the fee I mentioned would be in premium currency (plat, not credits), as per all automated selling from every other game

DE can even set min/max prices per item type if needed

And lastly, just because someone foolish lists for a bad price, nobody is forcing you or anyone else to buy it - no different than the current system

Big Brain Gang 2020 🧠

[Gabbynaru]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

Okay Economics isnt your strong suit, I see. You dont understand that Supply and Demand goes both ways. It will prevent people selling extremely cheap (market gets flooded, nobody buys) and will prevent price gouging on the high (to be "more expensive than Primed Chamber")

Show me whos buying rivens for over 80,000 plat? And even if someone did, why do you care? Youre not their parent

Now for Common Sense 101 - the fee I mentioned would be in premium currency (plat, not credits), as per all automated selling from every other game

DE can even set min/max prices per item type if needed

And lastly, just because someone foolish lists for a bad price, nobody is forcing you or anyone else to buy it - no different than the current system

Big Brain Gang 2020 🧠

No, it's clear you're the one failing to grasp concepts here. You're thinking of the ideal scenario. The one that will never happen. So keep on dreaming, and hope reality doesn't slap you back down to Earth too hard.

[FrostDragoon]

On 2019-09-26 at 8:57 AM, Gabbynaru said:

Work for your plat!

No one will benefit from all prices being 1 plat or so high they make Primed Chamber look cheap.

The same false argument based on weak logic and no economic understand posted in every thread that points out how awful the current system is. Nobody buys this bull****, just so you know.

[FrostDragoon]

56 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

And lastly, just because someone foolish lists for a bad price, nobody is forcing you or anyone else to buy it - no different than the current system

What these economic geniuses always fail to realize is that when people sell everything super low, wealthier players will buy it all up to flip it. It's not always direct either. They don't have to take the 25 Lex P Barrels for 1p and resell them for 5. They can turn them in for ducats and do any number of things from there. The game already has the self-corrective mechanisms in place to stop their stupid argument from becoming reality.