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Scar.brother.help.me

Puncture, Impact, Blast, Magnetic status effects suggestions

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My humble suggestions on most of the weakest/useless status procs:

Puncture - 1-3m punch through + pierce through armor (piercing portion of damage ignores armor reduction similar as Poison damage goes through shields now)

Impact - punch through like 2-3m knock back but first target is dragged to the same distance as any other targets behind (similar to bow kills but for a limited distance) so they stop at the same spot a bit stacked and all damaged in a process (damage and distance fall off with each body caught)

Blast - explosion deals part of the damage together with knock down

Magnetic - procs as medium AOE (5-8m) that carry over damage as heavy damage to (proto)shields, globes and nullifier fields, but deal 0 damage to health, only robotics (and/or target attracts other enemies within 5-8m range)

:clem:?

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RE: punch through as a proc.  It'd be nice most of the time with ranged weapons, but there are some situations where you don't want it.  Primarily stealth, but also a few explosive/AoE weapons where it doesn't behave.

How do you see it working with melee?  That seems problematic.

Just now, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Magnetic - procs as medium AOE (5-8m) that carry over damage as heavy damage to (proto)shields, globes and nullifier fields, but deal 0 damage to health, only robotics

So it would affect robotic health?

 

Just now, Scar.brother.help.me said:

(and/or target attracts other enemies within 5-8m range)

I think I like this one better, as it's potentially useful against all factions.

I like the suggestion for Blast, although I think making enemy resists a little easier on the damage type might be enough.  (And has the benefit of helping Blast weapons/abilities with low status too.)

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15 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Puncture - 1-3m punch through + pierce through armor (piercing portion of damage ignores armor reduction similar as Poison damage goes through shields now)

No punch-through. Some explosives deal Puncture and would get butchered if they flew past the enemy because of of Puncture proc. It should deal take a portion of the weapon's damage and bypass armor. Slash does damage over time through armor, Puncture is burst damage

15 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Impact - punch through like 2-3m knock back but first target is dragged to the same distance as any other targets behind (similar to bow kills but for a limited distance) so they stop at the same spot a bit stacked and all damaged in a process (damage and distance fall off with each body caught)

No punch-through. And this knockback thing sounds awful for some weapons. Remember: no matter how much knockback/CC you give Impact, it'll always be more annoying than useful. Impact procs should shatter and remove base X armor and 2X shields per proc.

15 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Blast - explosion deals part of the damage together with knock down

Yes, I like it! 🙂

15 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Magnetic - procs as medium AOE (5-8m) that carry over damage as heavy damage to (proto)shields, globes and nullifier fields, but deal 0 damage to health, only robotics (and/or target attracts other enemies within 5-8m range)

Sounds good! 🙂

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I would have impact procs ignore armour (this was the purpose of maces and flails in the middle ages - to bypass plate armour), puncture procs reduce armour in the same way that Shattering Impact does and magnet procs prevent the enemies from using any of their special abilities (because that's basically what they do to us) - where "special ability" is defined as "anything which is not walking, running, shooting or basic melee".

Blast - not sure on that one.

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punch trowgh on status and the robotic attractor on mag does not make sense but the other effects are a good idea (sure better of current effects)

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3 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

I would have impact procs ignore armour (this was the purpose of maces and flails in the middle ages - to bypass plate armour), puncture procs reduce armour in the same way that Shattering Impact does

The other way around. Puncture pierces armorn (bypass). Impact shatters.

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22 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Puncture - 1-3m punch through + pierce through armor (piercing portion of damage ignores armor reduction similar as Poison damage goes through shields now)

As people have said: punch through might not be the greatest. Also, Puncture already ignores a portion of armour (50% against Ferrite, 15% against Alloy), so I tend to think we could come up with something more unique. (Temporary damage multiplier on enemies along with lower enemy DPS, maybe?)

The thing about Impact and Puncture, IMO, is that their status effects as-is are okay, but very sub-par. It's not like people abhor the damage reduction on Puncture or the CC on Impact (assuming the motions aren't overkill), but when that's their only gimmick and Slash exists, they're "bleh" at best. So I tend to think they don't need changes, but additions to what they currently do.

22 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Blast - explosion deals part of the damage together with knock down

While this is a good idea, I think one of the things that turns people off Blast (besides the abysmal damage multipliers that might make the AoE damage still insignificant) is that the CC throws enemies to the ground and, therefore, makes them harder / more awkward targets to hit. That could be a factor to consider.

22 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Magnetic - procs as medium AOE (5-8m) that carry over damage as heavy damage to (proto)shields, globes and nullifier fields, but deal 0 damage to health, only robotics (and/or target attracts other enemies within 5-8m range)

I would much sooner go with the enemy attraction bit (even if I think, given Mag exists, it should be a bullet attractor and Void should do something else, enemy attraction does sync with Gas very well...), assuming it works on all enemies. The former part runs into the same problem as current Magnetic: it's useful against one-and-a-third factions that don't really need extra damage tacked on.  Also, no damage against health is a pretty severe downside...

I tend to feel that status effects need a very healthy measure of universality. Corrosive and Magnetic both suffer from the lack of that, and Corrosive IMO gets away with it just because armour is so prevalent. If they ever rework armour, Corrosive—along with many suggestions stating some other proc should affect armour—could end up the way of Magnetic.

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I like the idea of Magnetic procs being an attractor sort of like Void Singularity. Something that makes enemies cluster together. Perhaps with more procs increasing the range or strength of the pull. It would work well with gas as the opposite elemental type too.

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I like some of your ideas. My little spin:

Impact - staggers, knockdowns after threshold met, enemy gets less damage debuff (dazed)

Puncture - small punch through debuff, next hits pierces enemy

Slash - creates visible weak points (extra damage)

Yeah, it might be a nerf to slash. I feel like bleeding is too strong in its current state to be on slash alone, and implementation should change.

Bleeding - induced on the enemy when they taken enough hits (a threshold) by any of the physical damages types. The threshold can be combination of enemy resistances and physical damage type effectiveness. Slash would still have the highest chance of bleeding, second is puncture, last is impact. 

Edit: another little tweak - depending on which physical damage procs bleeding, the damage amount is different. Impact has the biggest damage, puncture second, and slash has lowest damage. Another variable for balancing. 

Elemental - they seem okay to me unless I forgot or missed something

Edited by Zebiko

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On 2019-09-29 at 7:19 PM, DoomFruit said:

I would have impact procs ignore armour (this was the purpose of maces and flails in the middle ages - to bypass plate armour)

On 2019-09-29 at 10:30 PM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

The other way around. Puncture pierces armorn (bypass). Impact shatters.

To elaborate a little bit, pre-modern "impact" weapons were more accurately weapons with a long shaft and a heavy head that was built to strike with a single point (ie, maces were flanged, the business end of war hammers was actually like a pick). War hammers that possessed a normal blunt end opposite to the pointed end could deliver a concussive blow (after all, energy is not blocked and vanished by armor, it's absorbed so getting hit in the helmet with a hammer isn't a nice experience even if it can't penetrate), but to penetrate plate armor one needs a lever force and a strong point.

The common perception of a flail is actually an extremely rare weapon (to the point it was long thought to be a hoax and/or romantic fiction), and there is doubt if it was actually ever used militarily. The actual flail was a (sometimes modified) farm tool used for threshing that could be repurposed as a weapon, for instance by peasant armies during the Wars of Religion and the Hussite Wars. Due to the chain, the flail can generate quite a bit of momentum, and an added stud or spike could potentially strike through armor if the head was sufficiently heavy. However, its primary benefit as a weapon is its ability to strike at an angle. This is also why most equivalent pre-modern chain weapons around the world tend to have long handles for striking like this, or short chains for safer handling (and just about all of them are or are based on farm tools used for threshing).

Edited by vaarnaaarne

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