The Referral Program Misuse - Discussion

[AuroraSonicBoom]

The mods will eventually be available through some other means and I see no reason to have everything right now.

Like every other mod that wasn't announced with a note that they will be released at a later time? You mean like Primed Chamber, or the Ammo Mutation Mods?

 

Exclusives are bad, timed exclusives even worse.

[LittleReshiram]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/113074-refer-a-friend-program-misuse/

lol, only 12 up votes atm, kinda funny.

meanwhile the opening post in this one has 44.

just a shame that its slowing down...

still no real word from any DE too, short of "we are listening" cookie cutter posts.

Because they know it's a lost cause and chose to hide.

Well, remember when they say they will be more "communicative?"

Guess it's a dream.

[Azure_Kytia]

Welp. So much for that apology.

[shinydunsparce]

I wouldn't go far as to say that, DE do make mistakes but this thread is clearly bringing a large thorn to the surface that they most likely will give some form of attention to.

 

Most likely putting the mods into drop tables/defense/survival reward tables.

 

The referral system isn't going to change

[Lorias]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/113074-refer-a-friend-program-misuse/

 

lol, only 12 up votes atm, kinda funny.

meanwhile the opening post in this one has 44.

 

just a shame that its slowing down...

still no real word from any DE too, short of "we are listening" cookie cutter posts.

 

To be fair, it is basically late evening to night for those of us in Eastern Canada/EST time zones. Which the company is located.

[alchemistjkt]

Welp. So much for that apology.

lol.

 

nobody should have taken that at face value honestly.

sadly, too many people are happy to do so.

they get a little gift as a distraction and due to the attention span of a fly, they forget the real problem at hand.

Edited September 26, 2013 by alchemistjkt

[Althix]

Welp. So much for that apology.

i believe you are talking about an apology about drop chance?

 

you know after 129 useless void runs i am kinda don't care about apology.

 

also we all know that there are some items in the store that can be only gained by plat, and this is fair. It is.

 

Situation with referal programm is different. Question what DE will do about it. Because copy-paste system of mods for me was like spit in the face.

Situation with referal program is kinda almost the same.

 

Good night every pony.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Althix

[SocknBoppers]

When DE "messes up" in our eyes: "Woah guys, we're sorry! To make up for it we'll take note of this and do better in the future".

 

When we "mess up" in DE's eyes: "That's it, you have taken advantage of us for the last or only time! Permanent termination!"

 

Truthfully though, neither side is in the clear for this. DE should know better then to force exclusive mods behind such a moronic "feature" as a referral system and "we" shouldn't have manipulated the system to get said (stupid as all hell) rewards.

 

Honestly, I believe DE knew some people would be upset at a referral system in general, but to offer exclusive mods for it is beyond naive. I am in favor of it offering naturally obtainable things like the already implemented slots, but also boosters small (like 25-50) clusters of platinum and potatoes. But never exclusive mods for an out-of-game source.

[Agent_of_Change]

here is the deal.

if they we as a community allow them to put things like this behind a wall, they will see it as an accepted and viable option to put even more things behind said wall. at some point, money will start to come into play, and then we have the issue of pay2win... its a slippery slope.

 

i think your misunderstanding something.

people are not mad because "i cant have instant gratification, so im mad, waaahhh", they are mad because DE is screwing over the vets who have supported them for quite some time. we are being ignored and insulted. as such, people get mad.

 

no one is being screwed, to claim you are being screwed is to assume you are somehow being denied something you should have.

 

Claiming this is a slippery slope to Pay2Win is a strawman, cut and dried.  It's an exclusive, currently, and will certainly be widely available after a period, that is exactly the pattern they have followed until now.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Agent_of_Change

[Ketec]

Im also dissapointed in this - i got everyone i could to play this before referal program already.
Using any last means i have available - i cant even reach 1 referal - there is noone left interested.

The system is for those who have extremely popular youtube channels, blogs or forums where they can easily advertise to thousands.

For a casual or even normal hadrcore player, hitting 15 subs that late into the game is quite hard.

[LittleReshiram]

i believe you are talking about an apology about drop chance?

 

you know after 129 useless void runs i am kinda don't care about apology.

 

also we all know that there are some items in the store that can be only gained by plat, and this is fair. It is.

No it isn't.

Referral system will benefits to those who are popular

, in which it's not everyone.

And seeing how it won't change, based on what "Megan the Almighty" said, it isn't fair at all.

Situation with referal programm is different. Question what DE will do about it. Because copy-paste system of mods for me was like spit in the face.

Situation with referal program is kinda almost the same.

 

DE won't change it. That's for sure.

That's nowhere near fair-play in my book.

[Mak_Gohae]

All of them can be gotten through the transmutation system (which is another load of unreliable crap - With the exception of firestorm) and the referral system.

 

 

Alright, folks have two options. Supercool!

 

He didn't say he didn't like the game, he said that the initial part is rather difficult for new comers.

 

Help people?

 

All your posts so far have been related at an extreme tangent, please start contributing with something that's more than just an opinion but backed by actual research. It's becoming increasingly difficult trying to use logic with you when you just ignore valid points.

 

 

I say if the mods arent necessary what's the problem and suggest an idea to get enough friends for the mods.

 

VS

 

this is the first step in a slippery slope that will lead to extreme greediness by DE in the future.

 

Who is going on an extreme tangent again?

[alchemistjkt]

And seeing how it won't change, based on what "Megan the Almighty" said, it isn't fair at all.

hey now... lets not taunt megan for doing her job.

she has to follow the rules you know.

[beol]

What are your feelings towards exclusive mods? etc.

 

Anything that makes a player feel that they are required to recruit people (such as exclusive content - even mods that are generally considered suboptimal) is a very bad idea. It leads to both cheating and quitting.

[Psychosist]

no one is being screwed, to claim you are being screwed is to assume you are somehow being denied something you should have.

 

Claiming this is a slippery slope to Pay2Win is a strawman, cut and dried.  It's an exclusive, currently, and will certainly be widely available after a period, that is exactly the pattern they have followed until now.

Being denied access of something, regardless of worth, is being screwed. It's really not fun when everyone else gets the opportunity to get something you have been denied, especially if you happen to be a long-term player that has likely spent real money on the game.

 

I agree it's not Pay2Win, but we certainly have to speak out in order to get them to change their ways.

[Agent_of_Change]

Being denied access of something, regardless of worth, is being screwed. It's really not fun when everyone else gets the opportunity to get something you have been denied, especially if you happen to be a long-term player that has likely spent real money on the game.

 

I agree it's not Pay2Win, but we certainly have to speak out in order to get them to change their ways.

 

So non-founders are being screwed for non being able to get the Excal prime?

Post open beta weekend players are being screwed by not having access to the The Braton Vandal?

etc.. etc... etc...

 

I disagree.  Exclusives are a matter of course, so long as the "exclusives aren't game breaking, it doesn't bother me at all.  But then we'd have self entitled whining if the things in question were cosmetic so I don't have much belief that the arguments here are mostly in good faith.

 

 

Bottom line:

- Exclusives (even temporary exclusives) are very very useful to successful promotions

 

- Any 'exclusive' is by definition going to be limited in scope of who can have it, there are some that are upset they can;t have it now or in some cases ever.

 

- Any 'exclusive' that is later widely and generally available will upset some people to whom it was previously accessible.

 

- The closest current comparison are the mods being offered as part of the Platinum packages, those have been rotated into the drop table so it stands to reason these will to.

 

- Other 'exclusive' mods not currently in rotation haven't been unavailable from general rotation for so long that a claim can be made that we won't see them.

 

- You can pretty up you arguments but many are simply I want it now and I am mad that there would be consequences to blatantly abusing a system without even making an attempt to work within it. Which speaks to a rather sad state of entitlement that somehow forces a failure to recognize the difference between being 'screwed out of something' and 'delayed gratification.

 

- DE should continue to do what works to grow the game and offering non-game breaking mods to people who go out of their way to bring people into the game seems reasonable to me.

[Kinderghast]

I just want to chime in here,

 

I think my thread this morning was responsible for kicking off the response from DE about the referral program.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/113048-is-this-the-grand-referral-system-vision-de/

 

 

I just want to say to anyone having a go at the mods here, the ones that spoke to me were nothing but polite and professional. This was ultimately not their call and they are just passing on the message.

 

If you read that thread it looks like they were responding initially reminding us of the details of the referral system, and then later on obviously someone higher up has made the call that what I was proposing to do was not allowed.

 

Fair enough, it is their game and their program and they are the ones that get to make the call on that.

 

I urge you to keep providing feedback to the DE team regarding this program, how you feel about exclusive mods being locked behind it, and how you feel as veteran players or players that don't have the option of inviting 15 new players to the game for whatever reason.

 

Keep it positive and polite and urge DE to seriously consider this massive amount of community unease with the current program and direction and perhaps engage more with everyone on these forums going forwards.

[Helljack84]

It's a great thing to give new players a few shiny things.

But this event is a slap in the face for anyone who told his friends about WF or purchased platinum months/weeks/hours ago.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Helljack84

[mrfluffydeath]

If your game is good enough, you shouldn't need gimmicks to get more players. (unless you are having cash flow issues)

So to veteran players this appears that the referral system is a gimmick because you don't think your game is good enough, or you need the money. When I hear referral I think of pyramid schemes, Bernie Madoff, and Door-to-door commission sale scams.

Now you want to have a referral program useful to those who can actually use it? have the rewards be a rank 5 Serration, Hornet Strike, Vitality, Redirection and Steel Fiber. Exclusivity does nothing but separates the haves from the have-nots and angers people off.

Edited September 26, 2013 by mrfluffydeath

[Psychosist]

So non-founders are being screwed for non being able to get the Excal prime?

Post open beta weekend players are being screwed by not having access to the The Braton Vandal?

etc.. etc... etc...

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Except instead of new players missing out, it's veteran players that are missing out -- players that have long contributed the game.

I disagree.  Exclusives are a matter of course, so long as the "exclusives aren't game breaking, it doesn't bother me at all.  But then we'd have self entitled whining if the things in question were cosmetic so I don't have much belief that the arguments here are mostly in good faith.

I agree on you on this point. The rewards right now are nothing to go out of your way for, but it's 1) definitely "overpriced" and 2) sets a bar for other, better items to be priced later on in the future.

 

Bottom line:

- Exclusives (even temporary exclusives) are very very useful to successful promotions

I don't see this program being successful.

- Any 'exclusive' is by definition going to be limited in scope of who can have it, there are some that are upset they can;t have it now or in some cases ever.

It's perfectly understandable and fair if you missed out on an exclusive because you weren't there when it happened or simply weren't skilled enough to earn it. I missed all the Vandal events and I'm not complaining about it. It's fair game -- I didn't deserve it because I wasn't there.

- Any 'exclusive' that is later widely and generally available will upset some people to whom it was previously accessible.

This is the equivalent of saying "DE should not sell something for Platinum only, and then later decide to make it farmable in-game because this will upset those that bought it."

 

Though true to some extent, there are compromises that can be made. The farming/earning process can be made rather challenging or somewhat time consuming. This makes it more like "farm to win, pay for convenience", right? The same thing should apply, but rather "farm to win, invite for convenience".

- The closest current comparison are the mods being offered as part of the Platinum packages, those have been rotated into the drop table so it stands to reason these will to.

And I'm okay with these mods being available later on. I only ask that if any gameplay-affecting items were to be added to the Referral Program, they should also be in the drop tables.

- Other 'exclusive' mods not currently in rotation haven't been unavailable from general rotation for so long that a claim can be made that we won't see them.

 

- You can pretty up you arguments but many are simply I want it now and I am mad that there would be consequences to blatantly abusing a system without even making an attempt to work within it. Which speaks to a rather sad state of entitlement that somehow forces a failure to recognize the difference between being 'screwed out of something' and 'delayed gratification.

It's not "wanting it now", it's "wanting it ever". Some people may never, ever be able to recruit enough to earn the prizes presented. And if DE chooses to rotate the prize list, we're just gonna have to keep inviting more and more each time it changes. I don't mind farming it as a Defense Reward. I have two Split Chambers, Hell's Chambers, Barrel Diffusion, among other Rare Mods. I just want to be rewarded for effort, not for advertisement.

- DE should continue to do what works to grow the game and offering non-game breaking mods to people who go out of their way to bring people into the game seems reasonable to me.

I believe this program isn't serving to expand the playerbase right now.

tl;dr

 

Just make these mods earnable in-game. All that I ask.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Psychosist

[StereoTypo]

Keep it positive and polite and urge DE to seriously consider this massive amount of community unease with the current program and direction and perhaps engage more with everyone on these forums going forwards.

Thank you for participating in a mature and constructive manner.

I too have felt that the introduction of this program was poorly thought out. Putting exclusive content behind referral programs has always struck me as a seedy and cheap. It is a form of false advertising, or at the very least, false sincerity; bribing players to present a game as fun!!! to their friends should not be necessary if the game is actually fun!

I have enjoyed Warframe for the gameplay, design, and community. I have, sincerely, told and encouraged friends to play this game. I have not recruited new players under this new program because, frankly, I do not like being told, by any company, to use my friends to get rewards. In light of DEs recent decisions, (primarily the debacle surrounding U10 and farming for clan tech), I will not be disingenuous in order to convince others to play, especially when I am feeling uneasy about how DE has managed the community in the past few weeks.

Edited September 26, 2013 by StereoTypo

[LoKor]

Lol, what a cluster...... No to exclusive stuff that can't be gotten in game (non-cosmetics wise).  Now if it is just a reskin or what not, I'm ok with that.

[fatpig84]

Bleh this isn't a good idea.

What if we (friends) are already in a clan ourselves ?

[Agent_of_Change]

tl;dr

Just make these mods earnable in-game. All that I ask.

I expect they will be earnable in the future in the same manner the mods like "thunderbolt" were previously only available through platinum packages and are now in regular rotation. That we will have to wait a little time for that to happen unless we refer people is perfectly acceptable to me. There is no reason to believe they won't be available in the future and if they were widely available now they wouldn't make a very good reward to encourage people to use the referral system would they?

To the note of encouraging players to use the referral system, if it the reward wasn't something new and 'exclusive' you wouldn't be giving current players any impetus at all to even try the referral system, that's simple logic. Your active players, your veteran players, the players who already have most everything, if you don't give them something new they will just shrug and ignore the feature. Yeah you'll hear complaints but i guarantee you that now that it has been functionally threatened that actively abusing the referral system is a potential bannable offense we are gonna have veteran players trying to find a way to get new people into the game on their referral code... which BTW will help both grow the player base and test the system.

As for the "cost being too high", the theory behind rewarding referrals is basically to reward people who bring in paying customers to sustain the game. Being a F2P game this offers an interesting challenge. A system with an upfront cost it's easy enough to figure out a cost/benefit analysis and say every player you refer (who will have paid the entry fee) you get X. In a F2P you have to figure out how many people will actually stick around and pay. I guaranty the number of paying players to non-paying players is closer to 1 in 5 than it is to 1 in 1, and I'm willing to bet DE has the metrics to figure out a rough estimate at best. That explains the tiers at each 5 people they are rewarding for the average of "paying players" you bring in without ever requiring anyone to pay. This is not greed, this is not screwing the player base, this is a business and one that has to be funded to see the game grow and thrive.

The reward is to encourage that 'extra' effort, to go out of your way to ask people to join, to go viral with your code. It is functionally a way to use your player base to actively advertise and it's the kind of thing done since the invention of word of mouth campaigns. That it is not available to current players NOW bothers me not one whit, ask me again in 2-3 months and if they still aren't available then i may have changed my mind, but coincidentally that period of time is also about as long as it will take to actually judge if the program was a success or not.

It is too early to assume the program is or is not a failure, it is too soon to start demanding the rewards be universally available.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Agent_of_Change

[waaaaaaaals]

I am hereby postulating a simple truth: If you build a hurdle for gamers to achieve something that cannot be achieved otherwise, they will climb that hurdle with the least effort necessary and the highest, controllable payout possible. The misuse is a result of a conceptional flaw.

I find it interesting that there are companies who don't understand human nature this way, it's as if they have an absolute lack of employees who have even the slighest bit of common sense.

It's a bit like this afk farming sentinel protection, they try to block the farming instead of understanding why it's happening and tackling that issue. Worse still is that they're only really punishing normal players (on missions like defense) with their badly implemented system while the ones who did the afk farming are free to use methods such as macros to keep their sentinel awake.

People always find a way, the harder the developer try to block it, the harder they'll work to slip through.

Developer VS playerbase fights like this always result in the developer's loss. Even if they eventually force the playerbase to behave how they want, they'll have dragged the vast majority of the playerbase through the mud so much that they simply quit.