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ArkThanatos

What IF Primes could..

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Scale. what if Prime warframes could scale up by adding parts to them.
 

Primes with scalability
you get a Prime. frame. you wanna actually have a stronger prime .. simple you Grind the Base frame... and apply the parts as like a Forma but it increases Base stats.
each part can increase a stat by 1%
so say you get a chassis, build it an apply it to the Prime. this add 1% to the base stats of Armor and HP
Systems 1% to Shields and Energy
neuoptics increases abilities base damage up by 1% directly (before strength is applied). Eg. 1st ability 200 damage increased to 202.
but after 5 applications of base parts you MUST apply a Full unranked frame to the prime frame
this allows for a + or - of any stat you wish to change by 1% OR 0.05 movement speed and unlocks a further 5 more upgrades.(edited)
rinse and repeat
you can keep stacking 5 chassis or what have you.. as long as after 5 applications a full unranked frame is applied to the prime

If adding a Prime part is adds 5% to that stat but only counts as a application. 

caveat being thou it is like a Forma. you must level said frame again.
conditions: must have at least 1 Forma applied and a potato with unlocked exilus slot on a lvl30 frame.
OR in short a fully kitted out frame

This would
1 mean farming base frames isn't so much of a waste if Salad V gives you 40 neuroptics for valkyr but still refuses to drop those systems. 
so boss grinding not a complete waste. reasons to go BACK and fight bosses
2 farming for materials has a further use once you kinda built everything. 
3 would allow people to gradually move frames into position for higher level content. 
4 is a rather gradual upgrade to frames as the parts take 12hrs - 3 days to craft. so you aren't going to be making a God tier OP atlas taking on lvl500 with 1 punch unless you have all the affinity boosting and plat in the world to rush parts continuously. a power increase that costs Time and resources. 
5 DE could Bring in Higher level content for these type of frames. 
6 Prime Frames are actually special apart from small stat changes and a clean aesthetic ... besides atlas who apparently had his colour picked out of a line up of bowel movements, they would have a scalability. setting them further apparent from their base counter parts.

i would like to be able to jump on each day rank up a few frames... build some parts... rank a frame or so up..... frame some parts... rinse repeat... every few days you have to farm entire frames up. take a few days off doing other things as frames build.

i do realise that some Frames WOULD be harder to do this with due to certain ways you Obtain them.
chroma, atlas, mirage and Harrow to name a few. BUT that being said... maybe these frames could have a larger increase due to the manner in which they are obtained.
so for these few, rather then 1% say they get 3% or something... all depending upon the these frames. 
BUT that being said not all frames have a prime yet.. so DE would have time to fix this stuff up IF this idea was ever put into swing. 

i would love to see the actual Primes. the Frames of legends and Orokin times be set further apart from the base models which are cheap knock offs.
this also would open up more Build options to frames. more unique builds.  with enough persistence. 
A banshee that doesn't Die when a bullet farts near her Cos she has improved HP.
Atlas improved Ability Base power...and movement speed!. 
Valkyr could finally have a shield that isn't making that "BIzzZERAH!" sound ever 3 seconds 

its gradual yes. an slow. but that would help avoid some frames being nerfed into the Dirt (RIP ember) because of Dramatic changes in power all of a sudden. 

thoughts ?? 
also do you think this could be applied to Prime weapons (looks intensely at my braton prime) 
 

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The game needs to be easier?

No. We don't even have content for our current possible power. And it's just moving the goal post of survivability for the glass frames. You will just be able to nuke even higher levels while still under the threat of getting ohk ever so slightly later.

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Cheap knockoffs?

You realize the Primes are just a way to make players say "SHINY!!! I must have it to show I am Superior to all others!!!!"

It's vanity that, it seems, you have fallen a victim to.

Primes are not superior tech as we have not encountered even one in the storyline. They are held up to be this big gain in power and strength for those weak enough to hunt them or buy them with real money. Reality is they are just data in a game that once it goes away, they will be gone into vaporware just as the rest of the game.

But you go ahead and keep worshipping things that are made for the players to chase after and put down the copy cat version. I have not ever seen a Prime that came out first and then the cheap knockoffs came out later but I guess you have so....

Participate trophy syndrome is alive and well. Tell someone the shiny is better than the one that came out first and they drool over that shine, without realizing they the same thing. I guess some gotta take their fantasy to the next level

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1 minute ago, Firetempest said:

The game needs to be easier?

No. We don't even have content for our current possible power. And it's just moving the goal post of survivability. You will just be able to nuke even higher levels while still under the threat of getting ohk slightly later.

 

2 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

That would make the even easier. And also primes already have enough bonuses.

1%.. increase... it would take you better part of 5 days to get 5% increase to whatever you implement.
I know the game is easy. very aware of this. But for 90% of what people do in this game... they wouldn't know the difference between a based prime an one with 400% power increase (to put a retarded number on it) because they are still just playing Hydron. vs lvl 35... and still 1 shotting everything. 

The power gain is slow. very slow. unless you plan on pouring plat into the frame.
its more so an idea so for people who want to do endurance missions or people who want to set their frames apart 
this would allow for you to continue to improve upon your frame till you are content with it. 

Also you are thinking of just strapping power strength to every frame. where some would need that HP or energy. an again... its 1% at a time. + leveling time + farming the part + building the part.

there is a time negation here on some level no matter what.


Also again DE could then Bring out a proper "end game\Elite" mission like Arbies and ESO was suppose to be... and then be able to say "get a prime and upgrade it!" rather then lower the levels, the difficulty ETC. 
it couldn't possibly hurt the game in its current stat. an you would have to spend actual Days on end improving your frames. removing sleep from the equation and Plat rush. 5 and a 1/2 DAYS of crafting time to get 6% increase... 11 days for 12%, 16.5 days 18%, 22 to get 24%, 27.5 to get 60%. 

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)Dishinshoryuken said:

Cheap knockoffs?

You realize the Primes are just a way to make players say "SHINY!!! I must have it to show I am Superior to all others!!!!"

It's vanity that, it seems, you have fallen a victim to.

Primes are not superior tech as we have not encountered even one in the storyline. They are held up to be this big gain in power and strength for those weak enough to hunt them or buy them with real money. Reality is they are just data in a game that once it goes away, they will be gone into vaporware just as the rest of the game.

But you go ahead and keep worshipping things that are made for the players to chase after and put down the copy cat version. I have not ever seen a Prime that came out first and then the cheap knockoffs came out later but I guess you have so....

Participate trophy syndrome is alive and well. Tell someone the shiny is better than the one that came out first and they drool over that shine, without realizing they the same thing. I guess some gotta take their fantasy to the next level

by Lore aren't the primes suppose to be Pinnacle of war machines. reality.. in game.. nope they are as you say just a shinny accessory. 
point being wouldn't it be more worth getting a prime if it wasn't just a status of im shinier then you ? if it could be uniquely improved upon in your own way ?
i still use alot of base frames. i still have my starter mag. i still use my starter mag. 
in game you are correct they are what you say. but by lore the base frames are basically knock offs. things that factions try to recreate to gain the powers of these frames. the Orokin (prime) ones are suppose to be all powerful... and when ingame... well what the hells the difference.. i mean i guess volts is the most notable difference. being Volt prime. he can actually be shot with out dying unlike base volt... thats about it. other wise its just cosmetics 

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1 minute ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

The game I suppose

Yeah. Nowadays i'm doing this so much frequently. (Tho my phone's auto correct function is not helping much.)

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What's the point? You're not going to make frames that lack power to keep up with the ones that do any more powerful, since the other ones would 'scale' along. So, all that remains is the idea that frames should be able to do much higher level missions, by being much more durable and wielding much more powerful weapons. To me, that sounds like useless. All that would accomplish is moving the goalposts yet again with more gear grind.

I can, however, see a big negative. If such a system would make it into the game, it'd create a rather big power gap between prime and non-prime frames.

Being able to stay longer in endless missions to get more rewards which you don't need, or because of pure bragging rights might be a worthy goal for some, but upsetting the entire game's balance(what little there tends to be) just so those can spend even longer in those missions isn't. It's all based around the core fallacy of assuming that 'higher levels == interesting, fun, or challenging'. Try and deconstruct that assumption if you have some time, and you'll see that it's nothing but a giant bandaid to make players feel justified for having spent hundreds of ours doing repetitive tasks.

Oh, and before you ask "why have levels at all then?": Levels used to be a mechanic introduced to prevent players from getting in over their heads so they could be made to spend more time learning the game's rules and mechanics. It also allowed narratively driven games to guide the player through the world without forcing him on a narrow path. The building of one's character was to a large part expanding in skills one could use and different gear one could slot, not so much with simply being able to demolish enemies with orders of magnitude more damage and health as you.

However, the surge of MMOs in the 2000s has taught game devs that they can use enemy levels themselves as simple, cop out way to create both a challenge(though an utterly shallow one) and a justification for players who had gotten obsessed with maxing out every single piece of equipment and skill they had so they wouldn't feel like they have wasted their time. With many other shinies to distract and reward players for beating high level mobs, they over the years internalized the idea that levels themselves are the primary goal to overcome in a game, and not smarter enemies, or attacks that required them to have mastered movement, awareness of their surroundings, or other skills based on their cognitive functions rather than how much time they've spent leveling up their gear. It used to be a common convention in game design that once you unlocked every skill and the highest level gear you could get, endgame would begin. You can still see that in older RTS games, were the term was widely used before the rise of MMOs.

So please, try and reevaluate why you want to fight the same enemies for longer amounts of time, with only the numbers over their head changing. The answer might surprise you.

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6 hours ago, ArkThanatos said:

Stuff.

What if people could not post click baity attention seeking thread titles and actually let people know what they're getting into by clicking?

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

What if people could not post click baity attention seeking thread titles and actually let people know what they're getting into by clicking?

Well. From pc you can place the mouse over the post's title and a little window shows what's in the post.

Still, click bait is click bait. I'm not a fan of it either. But at least that's there.

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while a system like the 1 suggested would add some form of longevity and certainly gives you more "things to do" it likely wouldnt be implemented given that it does not gel with the business plan of warframe, which is to get you to grind or better yet buy the next new thing, so introducing a system that will keep you occupied on your fave frame for ages to come seems unrealistic.

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14 hours ago, ArkThanatos said:

5 DE could Bring in Higher level content for these type of frames. 

This is a terrible idea for plenty of reasons regarding balancing and scaling but I want to point out little foresight this has.

A new frame is released and it's not broken OP. Time to wait 3 years for the Prime version and another year of grinding before I can use it in Super Elite Arbitrations without getting killed instantly.

Having pseudo-unlimited progression and content around it generally screws up the game for anyome who hasn't been playing since the implementation of said system. At least Elsword had the idea of sharing ERP points across characters but that still comes with its share of other problems without tackling the main issue.

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14 hours ago, ArkThanatos said:

Scale. what if Prime warframes could scale up by adding parts to them.
 

Primes with scalability
you get a Prime. frame. you wanna actually have a stronger prime .. simple you Grind the Base frame... and apply the parts as like a Forma but it increases Base stats.
each part can increase a stat by 1%
so say you get a chassis, build it an apply it to the Prime. this add 1% to the base stats of Armor and HP
Systems 1% to Shields and Energy
neuoptics increases abilities base damage up by 1% directly (before strength is applied). Eg. 1st ability 200 damage increased to 202.
but after 5 applications of base parts you MUST apply a Full unranked frame to the prime frame
this allows for a + or - of any stat you wish to change by 1% OR 0.05 movement speed and unlocks a further 5 more upgrades.(edited)
rinse and repeat
you can keep stacking 5 chassis or what have you.. as long as after 5 applications a full unranked frame is applied to the prime

If adding a Prime part is adds 5% to that stat but only counts as a application. 

caveat being thou it is like a Forma. you must level said frame again.
conditions: must have at least 1 Forma applied and a potato with unlocked exilus slot on a lvl30 frame.
OR in short a fully kitted out frame

This would
1 mean farming base frames isn't so much of a waste if Salad V gives you 40 neuroptics for valkyr but still refuses to drop those systems. 
so boss grinding not a complete waste. reasons to go BACK and fight bosses
2 farming for materials has a further use once you kinda built everything. 
3 would allow people to gradually move frames into position for higher level content. 
4 is a rather gradual upgrade to frames as the parts take 12hrs - 3 days to craft. so you aren't going to be making a God tier OP atlas taking on lvl500 with 1 punch unless you have all the affinity boosting and plat in the world to rush parts continuously. a power increase that costs Time and resources. 
5 DE could Bring in Higher level content for these type of frames. 
6 Prime Frames are actually special apart from small stat changes and a clean aesthetic ... besides atlas who apparently had his colour picked out of a line up of bowel movements, they would have a scalability. setting them further apparent from their base counter parts.

i would like to be able to jump on each day rank up a few frames... build some parts... rank a frame or so up..... frame some parts... rinse repeat... every few days you have to farm entire frames up. take a few days off doing other things as frames build.

i do realise that some Frames WOULD be harder to do this with due to certain ways you Obtain them.
chroma, atlas, mirage and Harrow to name a few. BUT that being said... maybe these frames could have a larger increase due to the manner in which they are obtained.
so for these few, rather then 1% say they get 3% or something... all depending upon the these frames. 
BUT that being said not all frames have a prime yet.. so DE would have time to fix this stuff up IF this idea was ever put into swing. 

i would love to see the actual Primes. the Frames of legends and Orokin times be set further apart from the base models which are cheap knock offs.
this also would open up more Build options to frames. more unique builds.  with enough persistence. 
A banshee that doesn't Die when a bullet farts near her Cos she has improved HP.
Atlas improved Ability Base power...and movement speed!. 
Valkyr could finally have a shield that isn't making that "BIzzZERAH!" sound ever 3 seconds 

its gradual yes. an slow. but that would help avoid some frames being nerfed into the Dirt (RIP ember) because of Dramatic changes in power all of a sudden. 

thoughts ?? 
also do you think this could be applied to Prime weapons (looks intensely at my braton prime) 
 

If you think increasing Banshee’s health by a few percent is going to make her any less squishy, I’m sorry.

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13 hours ago, ArkThanatos said:

by Lore aren't the primes suppose to be Pinnacle of war machines. reality.. in game.. nope they are as you say just a shinny accessory. 
point being wouldn't it be more worth getting a prime if it wasn't just a status of im shinier then you ? if it could be uniquely improved upon in your own way ?
i still use alot of base frames. i still have my starter mag. i still use my starter mag. 
in game you are correct they are what you say. but by lore the base frames are basically knock offs. things that factions try to recreate to gain the powers of these frames. the Orokin (prime) ones are suppose to be all powerful... and when ingame... well what the hells the difference.. i mean i guess volts is the most notable difference. being Volt prime. he can actually be shot with out dying unlike base volt... thats about it. other wise its just cosmetics 

The difference is you. You are what makes your frames powerful. The difference between Mag and Mag prime is the person controlling the frame.

MR1-5 Mag is still likely figuring out what their abilities do.

MR18 Mag prime is likely entire worlds ahead, and capable of handling missions on her own.

This is of course less true if the player spends money to obtain prime’s, but that’s true with everything.

Bought is not earned.

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21 minutes ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

Bought is not earned.

Yes but if I worked in the mines for 3 days straight to get the money to buy the frame while someone else sat in the comfort of their air-conditioned, stable oxygen home and farmed barely a few hours for it, who earned it more hmmm?

Jokes, but I do find it funny people think that just because you bought something, you didn't earn it.

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15 hours ago, (PS4)Dishinshoryuken said:

Cheap knockoffs?

You realize the Primes are just a way to make players say "SHINY!!! I must have it to show I am Superior to all others!!!!"

It's vanity that, it seems, you have fallen a victim to.

Primes are not superior tech as we have not encountered even one in the storyline. They are held up to be this big gain in power and strength for those weak enough to hunt them or buy them with real money. Reality is they are just data in a game that once it goes away, they will be gone into vaporware just as the rest of the game.

But you go ahead and keep worshipping things that are made for the players to chase after and put down the copy cat version. I have not ever seen a Prime that came out first and then the cheap knockoffs came out later but I guess you have so....

Participate trophy syndrome is alive and well. Tell someone the shiny is better than the one that came out first and they drool over that shine, without realizing they the same thing. I guess some gotta take their fantasy to the next level

I have a lot of vanity and a lot of primes. I think your on to something. 

 

😄

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17 hours ago, ArkThanatos said:

Scale. what if Prime warframes could scale up by adding parts to them.

What if Primes could...

Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler

clickbait

 

 

 

Also, no. Bad idea. Make the game easier so that people complain even more. Wonderful.

 

Also, do us a favor and get rid of that black text formating. It's friggin impossible to read when you're using the dark forum theme.

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19 hours ago, Goodwill said:

Yes but if I worked in the mines for 3 days straight to get the money to buy the frame while someone else sat in the comfort of their air-conditioned, stable oxygen home and farmed barely a few hours for it, who earned it more hmmm?

Jokes, but I do find it funny people think that just because you bought something, you didn't earn it.

That’s how life works though. Money buys convenience, in real life and games. Convenience prevents you from learning.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

That’s how life works though. Money buys convenience, in real life and games. Convenience prevents you from learning.

Does it? You make it sound like that if someone bought a Warframe, that they would never be able to learn it. There is no absolute correlation between convenience and learning. Just because someone got something without buying it, they may have not necessarily learned it. Mastery fodder is a perfect example of this. When you farm something, build something and just level it up for the mastery, it doesn't matter whether you bought it or farmed it, you still haven't learned it. Whether you learn something or not is not how you obtained it, but the time you invest in after obtaining it which is irrespective to methods.

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