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[DE]Rebecca

The Mod Booster and Free to Play.

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I'm glad the situation was taken seriously and addressed. I hope this shows promise for some of the other issue the community has been having to be addressed as well. I know we (as a community) don't always come at DE with constructive criticism, but we need to remember that no one listens to a bunch of yelling. We need to keep bring DE our feedback in a constructive way. Quite a few of us as well as partners have made very good, constructive criticism videos, posts and so on. This issue was at least addressed, so lets keep giving our feedback in a constructive way and hope that this is the start of really seeing DE listening to us, and taking into consideration what we are saying with at least an explanation if not a change. In the end, DE and the players are on the same side. We just want this to be the best game it can be. Being toxic will not reach anyone, nor will DE at times seeming like they are just sticking their heads in the sand. I know I should corny to some of you, but its true. Lets work together, things tend to go better that way.

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I'm personally pretty happy about the loot frame abilities stacking again. 🙂

However, my biggest criticism of the mod drop booster is really in relation to the mod drops themselves.

I've posted this on Reddit, but I feel like it's still relevant even after this update:

Quote

Mods and mod drops on the other hand, clearly aren't in the same camp as resources. If you run Jupiter defense enough times, booster or not, you'll eventually get all the Hexenon you need for everything that needs it. But, you can kill Lab Amalgams for months and never get the mod drops you want (even if you had a mod drop booster). As other people have pointed out, the drop rates are so low for so many mods, that doubling them is meaningless, and it makes even the investment of a mod drop booster a gamble.

Aside from that, there's plenty of mods that don't drop from enemies, and can only be gotten as mission rewards. Those mods would still have pitiful drop rates, because a booster wouldn't affect mission reward drops.

So, unlike resource boosters, a mod drop booster *likely* won't save you time, in terms of getting a mod you want. You *might* get lucky and get a mod you were farming for a little faster, but what it would probably do is give you access to more selling fodder. For credits, endo, and sometimes plat (and there's better ways to do all of that anyhow). It's also going to be much harder for players to actually gauge how useful it is to use a mod booster (a mod that's got a .5% drop chance going up to 1% is still too low).

TLDR: Resource boosters wind up saving players time, because stockpiles of the resources are currently benign. The usefulness of a mod-drop chance booster wouldn't be significant for most mods in the game, and the advantages it gives are harder to measure, making it feel more like a gamble.

Not trying to rain on the good intentions and good news in the thread, but I think this is still worth addressing.

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9 minutes ago, 16Bitman said:

Could you clarify to which "Loot Frame Stacking" state we're getting back to? There were several small nerfs over the years, I don't remember when exactly they happened.

Will multiple Nekros be able to desecrate the same corpse again?

Can multiple Ivaras pick pocket the same enemy again?

Or is it just different abilities working with each other, instead of the same multiple times?

Nekros after the arrival of The Jovian Concord was no longer able to desecrate a body divided into two pieces, and therefore desecrated only one piece as if the body were intact. This functionality (to desecrate every piece) will return, he also didn't stack up with other Warframe skills, now he's back.

Edited by dw3t

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30 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

will have to trust that this simply won’t happen.

how about NO. there is absolutely no way any sane person would trust a company to do right by them. DE is no exception to this.

it's your job to respect your users, not ours to blindly trust that you won't screw us over.

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The issue  from what i can tell is when you eliminated the choice from 5+ frames to choose to farm , 4 in squad ,to 1 per squad , so that choice limited the players and then reduced the actual "loot" of a loot n shoot game ? that was were i personally saw players get upset 

(limited choice # + reduced loot % = unhappy loot n shoot)

though, im happy to hear this is being reverted it does pose the question of maybe widening looting mechanic to apply to kavats/kubrows, sentinels , moas , ect and allow for a passive loot gain not dependent on frames as that would go back to the main idea that was the point. could also add passive loot capabilities to all frame kits in some fashion ?

the mod booster also ( if not stated already)  should be in login rewards like other boosters imo  but thats just me 

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Just now, Quickbash said:

how about NO. there is absolutely no way any sane person would trust a company to do right by them. DE is no exception to this.

it's your job to respect your users, not ours to blindly trust that you won't screw us over.

To me personally this whole story of complaining for a 20% drop boost on a game where the mods also have a drop chance of 2% or 0.2% is ridiculous.

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33 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

In this case there’s mixed reactions and fear.

TIL "mixed reactions" is DE-speak for "extremely negative"

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Thank you Rebecca,

36 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The future of the Mod Booster will be decided as Atlas Prime Access comes to and end. 

This is good to hear & once again I am glad DE has listened to the players but I do continue to think that the Mod Drop Booster shouldn't exist at this point in the game. 

36 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

While the players concerned with the Warframe Abilities may find this resolution a win, those who have moved the conversation to ‘DE will balance Mods around this booster’ will have to trust that this simply won’t happen. We’ve worked hard over 7 years to provide free content, and we will continue to do so. 

In regards to those who have shared their concern about the booster for other reasons outside of the synergy nerf, will DE be addressing the low drop %'s from rare/uncommon single unit enemies in the future? We can trust that balancing around the booster won't happen but as long as only one enemy holds a mod with a .02% drop rate & the booster exists that perception will remain. At least IMO. 

See Mutagen Sample/Kuva + Resource/Drop Chance boosters with players thoughts around those as an example. 

Edited by iwoply
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14 minutes ago, 16Bitman said:

Will multiple Nekros be able to desecrate the same corpse again?

Can multiple Ivaras pick pocket the same enemy again?

Or is it just different abilities working with each other, instead of the same multiple times?

first makes no sense since one corpse can desecrated only once, u can't desecrate what's gone.

second makes a little bit sense but still highly unlikely. 

and third is what should been never removed from game because skills should interact with eachother. corpse who dropped x2 loot by hydroid should drop x2 loot when gets desecrated. 

so it's most likely third.

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17 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Part III: The Loot Frames: 
The third Mistake: not providing closure on the loot-frame changes from The Jovian Concord. We are restoring the loot mechanics to what they were before The Jovian Concord - Warframe Loot Abilities will again be able to yield multiple-drops from already looted corpses. 

Looting abilities serve a very singular purpose - to loot. And when they all stack on the same corpse, they become the only choice for loot-seekers. This puts players in a position of deciding whether or not to bring the frames that have the best looting abilities rather than anything else. Our intentions with the change were to alleviate that, but ultimately we are reverting it in an effort to eliminate bad will that these two items are related in any way. We’d rather make a decision that possibly lessens choice but respects precedent, than have players think the choice was related to a new booster, and actions speak louder than words. We are aiming to get this in on all platforms by tomorrow! 

There were another two issues with this:

  1. Certain looting abilities still stacked according to numerous tests, despite patchnotes telling us otherwise.
  2. Certain dumb grinds became worse with this change (think Mutagen Samples).

I think your original thought process was a bit flawed: preventing loot abilities stacking didn't give players more choice, instead you took choice away  As it was originally players had three major choices: take all the loot frames and try to loot every single corpse as much as possible, balance out lootframes and killframes (more bodies to loot - higher chance of getting loot, which is obvious), and third choice being ignore previous two choices and bring whatever they want/have.

As a veteran player, I've been in all three scenarios, all three are valid and all depends on who you're playing with, how and what are you trying to get.

After the change in Jovian Concord we effectively lost the first option (not quite, but that's no longer relevant): there was no longer any point in trying to bring more than one lootframe. This could have been fine, if not for one detail: drop rates weren't adjusted to accommodate for the change. This was, effectively, a nerf: the only change was negative from player's PoV with no positives.

Given that reaction in the community, I think you can see how players received news of Mod Drop Chance booster, regardless of what intentions you had when implementing it.

Other valid concern was how it would affect platinum sources for players, especially free-to-play and in newer players, who very often rely on farming and selling rare mods - this booster could severely change economy for them in a quarter or two, when veteran farmers would optimize using new booster and farm mods several times more efficiently.

 

In the end, I'm glad the you guys decided to revert the change too looting abilities, however I'm still uncertain about the new booster.

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4 minutes ago, iwoply said:

will DE be addressing the low drop %'s from-


don't ask about mutagen samples or scott will break your kneecaps. one victory at a time.

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I'm still not a fan of the mod drop chance booster existing in the first place, but thank you for the communication on the matter.

Please make sure this booster does not affect Eidolon Arcane drops and other various drops that might conflict in the existence of this booster. I know it seems odd, but spaghetti can happen. I hope it launches with a polished function and no "unintended affections".

Edited by Voltage
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Aaaaaaand this is why DE is one of the greatest developers in gaming. Transparent, good-willed, and, most importantly, aware of their players' perceptions. Well done, DE! ❤️

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39 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

As much as i like to see this change, the lootframe meta wouldn't be as needed as it is without high resource costs (*cough* hema research *cough*) or mods with awfully low drop chances with a reduced amount of sources. Any chance for these issues to be addresed at some point too?

It has nothing to do with it being needed or not.

It's just meta, the most efficient method, what yields the most reward in the least amount of time/effort possible.

Whether it's needed or not, a good portion of players will always resort to it, in many different games.

It's just how things are in online games.

Edited by (PS4)Quantaminum
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22 minutes ago, Rhundis said:

I approve this message, by my right as founder.

If you don't mind me asking what "right as founder" are you speaking of?

Edited by BaIthazar
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5 minutes ago, Paragon_of_Crows said:

first makes no sense since one corpse can desecrated only once, u can't desecrate what's gone.

 

Multiple Nekros were able to desecrate the same corpse.

I've got a video where I make a lot of endo in a single round of rahtuum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zflPE-jhQRQ

 

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1 minute ago, 16Bitman said:

Multiple Nekros were able to desecrate the same corpse.

I've got a video where I make a lot of endo in a single round of rahtuum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zflPE-jhQRQ

 

yah but it makes no logical sense so i doubt they'll put that back in. it's BS same as hydroid and nekros NOT stacking their abilities. each game should follow some sort of insider logic to be success, for example if 4 nekros ults stax, why not 4 ivaras spore stax?! - etc etc.

 

Edited by Paragon_of_Crows
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As someone who was highly critical of the introduction of this booster and it's connection to the lootframe nerf I approve of this.

vor 44 Minuten schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

those who have moved the conversation to ‘DE will balance Mods around this booster’ will have to trust that this simply won’t happen

This is true, however trust is much easier to destroy than it is to gain back. 

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2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I'm still not a fan of the mod drop chance booster existing in the first place, but thank you for the communication on the matter.

Same here as the Booster wouldn't matter to rare mod drops that dip below a 1% (i.e Condition Overload, Four Riders). Like Resource and Resource Drop Chance Boosters, I'm sure that the Mod Drop Chance Booster does not affect the reward table mods from mission types like Spy.

Would it be more preferable if there was a 90 Day Resource Booster instead of either a 90 Day Credit or Affinity Booster?

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From my pov the booster should be released in the market in the 3,7 and 30day formats. Taken away from atlas prime access and give him a sigil or something. Also why not added it to login rewards also ?

Edited by paul5473
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