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[DE]Rebecca

The Mod Booster and Free to Play.

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There really isn't any reason to punish people who are willing to sacrifice power for treasure. If people want stack Nekros with Hydroid and stuff then they should be allowed to, nobody's forcing anyone to play anything specific unless they're trying to minmax an organized party, and isn't minmaxing one of the fun things about Warframe?

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2 hours ago, Sannidor said:

You are transparent about mechanics of this damage control fix but avoid discussing real issues - 

No mention of Mod Booster as login reward scaling from MR rank or a monthly-long purchasable by Platinum.

If you don't consider this pay to win why so many precautions and limitations, including the quoted statement?

You want to flood the market with Condition Overload type mods even if it means their individual price drops, then you will count the numbers and decide if you want long term income or go back to rarity causing raising prices. Stacking loot frames un-nerf may also mean more resource boosters purchased because these won't feel as necessity anymore = decent Platinum sink.

If you don't consider this pay to win why so many precautions and limitations, including the quoted statement?

1 hour ago, -AxHx-Vile said:

Damage control 7/10, mostly due to the loot nerf being undone.

This ^

Damage Control 5/10 I whuold heartily agree with, The undoing of the Nerf, will easily make alot of folks happy and that's something that should of happened from he get-go and even better, not even "Nerfed" to begin with. The fact that they are so  transparent about it and STILL KEEPING the Mod Pack Booster in the PA, still looks like a Poisoned Apple, still let them use it and then do the clean up duty after. As quote "The future of the Mod Booster will be decided as Atlas Prime Access comes to and end"

This means, they'll still use it regardless, as long as it sweeps in the dosh and I don't want to think of the other type of "Item Drop Chance" to buy in PA/Market, at that stage they'll do exclay what Sannidor said: They'll count the numbers and decide if an long term income or go back to rarity causing raising prices. Stacking loot frames un-nerf may also mean more resource boosters purchased because these won't feel as necessity anymore = decent Platinum sink.

Let alone, they can easily stealth-patch the "Un-Nerf" later, once they feel that the booster has high enough numbers, they'll see it as a better choice. If not keep it and find a way to throw it down our throats by limiting the % of RNG. So all in all, the choice to keep the Booster IN is flawed and should be ALSO reverted. This STILL IS an scummy statistic, some people who can't afford it or has little time on their hands, are the big prey here.

Let alone the issue from the recent update: We have intentionally left September as a bit of a ‘light’ month for releases. We wanted to give ourselves time internally to focus the whole team on finishing that infamous Whiteboard. However, our amazing and dedicated TennoGen community generate their success on our Updates! So you’ll find the headline of this week is dedicated to TennoGen Round 17. 

 

So all in all. Theres still alot to talk about and lately the past few updates have been heavily fouled on Income only. there needs to be more clearing up to do and go back on the choice of giveing an clearly P2W Item, that as said: if YOU don't consider this pay to win why so many precautions and limitations, including the quoted statement?

 

Psi

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10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Our intentions with the change were to alleviate that, but ultimately we are reverting it in an effort to eliminate bad will that these two items are related in any way. We’d rather make a decision that possibly lessens choice but respects precedent, than have players think the choice was related to a new booster, and actions speak louder than words.

This is why the players love DE. You don't always get everything perfect, but you do make a good faith attempt to do the right thing. This one is definitely perfect.

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It would be nice if you change up the mods instead of getting 100`s of same mods on same missions. maybe add better mods too or improve the drop rate. 

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11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

TL;DR - The Mod Booster will also be available free in Sorties and on Baro Ki’Teer. Warframe Loot Abilities will again be able to yield multiple-drops from already looted corpses.

What about daily login rewards?

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Don't you think you should also make the booster available from daily login, market, rare containers, smeeta kavat like all the other boosters?

I also think you should just raise the droprate or introduce new ways to gather stuff (mods, recources etc) after some time from introducing them.

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Removal stacking of looting abilities was the correct decision. I dont think people uses farming frames to farm mods that much, there are more important resources than mods that drop from enemies. A mod booster shouldn't tip any sort of balance drastically. 

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You need to look at super terrible low drop rates of certain mods in general....

Good you listened but please don't let the 0.02% mods happen it just sucks. 

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It would be nice if Affinity and Credit boosters in Prime Access would rotate with Resource and Resource Drop from time to time

Some have stacked 140 days of Affinity and Credit Booster which become obnoxious

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12 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Hello all!

you earned a little bit of respect for this

49 minutes ago, (PS4)nerdlegend said:

You need to look at super terrible low drop rates of certain mods in general....

Good you listened but please don't let the 0.02% mods happen it just sucks. 

id rather have 0.02% mods that by choice we can loot stack up to 0.1%, rather than having 0.05% which we can only loot twice up to 0.1%
you need to at least be aiming for looting and making concessions to earn that drop chance

Edited by BlackVortex
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14 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Looting abilities serve a very singular purpose - to loot. And when they all stack on the same corpse, they become the only choice for loot-seekers. This puts players in a position of deciding whether or not to bring the frames that have the best looting abilities rather than anything else. Our intentions with the change were to alleviate that, but ultimately we are reverting it in an effort to eliminate bad will that these two items are related in any way.

I get that the "Loot setup" being Nekros + Hydroid felt bad, in that it locked  you into certain frame setups for farming, but the change you made to "fix" this only made things worse, it ended up being "Just Nekros, and now it doesn't answer loot farming as well."

This doesn't end up effectively "Open up more options for farming", it makes it so that only the best one is usually ever used, why play Hydroid when Nekros's looting ability is more reliable? Why use Khora or Atlas's looting abilities when they only REDUCE your average drops since Nekros can no longer affect ones you affected with his larger percent? Why use Chesa ever? I haven't seen a Hydroid or Chesa since the loot change, for example, only far more Nekroses (I still do see Khoras, but that's not due to her looting mod).

The real answer to this "lack of choice", in my opinion, can only come by removing all looting abilities altogether, and that could only come paired with an extreme adjustment of drop rates and drop tables, making them essentially reflect drops when you're already stacking these looting abilities, (or even further than that, in some cases, for example mutagen samples), even when you're not, and in making this change, Hydroid and Nekros and Chesa would need to be given other upsides, or they'd all fall into "never use" status. If that's not something on the table, then reverting this change is at least a far healthier middle ground.

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That’s an exhausting and clear answer to what players were concerned about and I’m glad you pointed it out and explained what you were going to do. I really appreciate your transparency. That’s not what every videogame company has but it should have. Thanks and I will continue supporting you! 

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29 minutes ago, Sylonus said:

The real answer to this "lack of choice", in my opinion, can only come by removing all looting abilities altogether, and that could only come paired with an extreme adjustment of drop rates and drop tables

Man I would love to have a chance to get more than 2-3 orokin cells per mission witout beeing locked into nekros and that right there is just the best player friendly solution.

Ceres (orokin cells) disruption when DE?

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15 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Looting abilities serve a very singular purpose - to loot. And when they all stack on the same corpse, they become the only choice for loot-seekers. This puts players in a position of deciding whether or not to bring the frames that have the best looting abilities rather than anything else. Our intentions with the change were to alleviate that, but ultimately we are reverting it in an effort to eliminate bad will that these two items are related in any way. We’d rather make a decision that possibly lessens choice but respects precedent, than have players think the choice was related to a new booster, and actions speak louder than words. We are aiming to get this in on all platforms by tomorrow! 

That was the wrong choice, as far as I'm concerned. For one thing, you're setting a bad precedent - make enough threads on the forums and you can roll back a balance decision regardless of its merit. That has the knock-on effect of making the forums a lot less usable for discussion when everyone's trying to use them as a platform for grandstanding. For another thing, you've basically locked in the "meta" all over again. This isn't a matter of "possibly lessen choice," so much as a matter of "remove choice." It also makes one suspect that you guys have balanced drop rates around a Nekros/Hydroid/Khora/Nidus team, and that those of us who play solo, on small teams or don't use "meta" frames might as well not bother hoping for drops... Or trying for Toroids. Because the only alternative then is that you've balanced drop rates around normal team composition, in which case expect a lot of "content drought" threads.

Finally and most importantly, what happens when you release another drop rate boost ability? Maybe another Warframe, maybe another pet, maybe another booster of some kind. What happens then? Do you let it stack on top of everything else? Or do you "break precedent?" Because you're going to have to, sooner or later. Because you've set a bad precedent. Yes, the change was mishandled, but it doesn't make it bad. Tough decisions are never fun to make, but not making them isn't the better option. Not long-term. This is going to come up again, sooner rather than later, especially if you keep pushing for "sustainable rewards."

More than anything else, Warframe has deep, systemic issues with performance normalisation. The gab between easily min/maxed performance and more regular performance is so substantial that we may as well be playing two entirely separate games. You've rolled back a major normalisation change, so I hope the burst of good will is worth the cascading issues that this is going to cause.

 

1 hour ago, Sylonus said:

The real answer to this "lack of choice", in my opinion, can only come by removing all looting abilities altogether, and that could only come paired with an extreme adjustment of drop rates and drop tables, making them essentially reflect drops when you're already stacking these looting abilities, (or even further than that, in some cases, for example mutagen samples), even when you're not, and in making this change, Hydroid and Nekros and Chesa would need to be given other upsides, or they'd all fall into "never use" status. If that's not something on the table, then reverting this change is at least a far healthier middle ground.

And then there's that, yes. I agree completely. Despite everything I've said above, I do agree that simply removing all loot-boosting abilities from the game would be the best solution. Obviously that would require rebalancing drop rates (because I'm more than positive they're balanced with "Lootframes" in mind), but again - not all decisions are easy to make.

Edited by Steel_Rook
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Good post and good revert on loot abilities but... could we not have this added to the sorties pool? As a veteran i have no interest in this item whatsover and it is just going to diluite the reward pool even more. If we really have to have it in the pool, could we be able to select which booster we get, so we can dodge this one?

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"The future of the Mod Booster will be decided as Atlas Prime Access comes to and end"

Why?Why do you need to wait that long?
Most people dont want them ingame and there is no reason to add them(ohh they were there to begin with but really so were many things which you discarded since 2013).
DE have you ever checked your drop rate tables for rare mods?If you did you would know how much of bad idea this booster is.
Also while you at it see how many people buy those so called resource drop chance boosters.Sigh what a stupid move.

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I still see two general problems with the Mod Drop booster, if it ever becomes an item in the market:

  1. Mods still have a very low chance to drop in general, so you would be spending money on something that may not get you what you want (unlike the existing boosters, which simply increase what you are already going to get).
  2. Mods, unlike all other things affected by boosters, can be traded between players for Platinum. This presents a "Spend money to make money" paradox.

So, while reverting the loot nerf certainly removes the perception of making a problem and selling the solution, there are still issues with the idea of a mod drop booster.

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Thx for your explanation.

As you mentioned, Mod drop chance booster will be added as an extension of Resource drop chance booster. Does it mean the Resource drop chance booster will no longer provide additional drop chance for mods? Or it never boost the drop rate of mods, only resources?

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I don’t know how having multiple loot farm frames in the same squad to get optimal loot drops is seen as a restriction of choice. Mostly because not every frame can re loot dead bodies so if anything is just limits choices because people will only ever want to use the best frame out of the bunch and ignore the rest.

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