Hey, remember when Ash was supposed to look like this at some point?

[Cubewano 5,300]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Because people are repeatable ignoring the fact that it’s far too much work for very little payoff.

Based off of what? Deluxes seem to be well worth the work and they're essentially the same process.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Cubewano

[Cubewano 5,300]

1 hour ago, ExcaliburUmbra said:

I mean sure intentions and situations change, I’m not disputing that. They could change their mind for whatever reason they want.

Just trying to address your claims here in bolded:

I’m pretty sure stating “we are not doing this” is a pretty explicit refusal, assuming we’re both using the same definition of explicit. At that point in time, it was pretty clear that they did not want to spend resources to develop alternate gender skins. 

And to clarify I’m not against the idea of alternate gender skins as I stated before, just trying to clear up misinformation.

I didn't say you were disputing it, I'm merely saying that was the stance expressed in your supposed counter to my statement. 

There was no outright refusal, just a statement it was not actively being done at the time, followed by a maybe in regards to it having a potential future in tennogen and a discussion about how prone DE are to changing directions and that nothing is really off the table given their development style. 

Thought this was all expressed clearly enough in my previous response but I guess not. 

[ExcaliburUmbra 1,572]

1 hour ago, Cubewano said:

I didn't say you were disputing it, I'm merely saying that was the stance expressed in your supposed counter to my statement. 

Thought this was all expressed clearly enough in my previous response but I guess not. 

Fair enough. Apologies for my mediocre reading comprehension.

I hope that they’ll figure out a way to implement this one day but considering how long it’s been relative to how often this topic crops up, I won’t be expecting much.

Edited October 1, 2019 by ExcaliburUmbra
Getting off track.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 12,781]

6 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Based off of what? Deluxes seem to be well worth the work and they're essentially the same process.

No their not.

[Cubewano 5,300]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

No their not.

Again based off what? By DE standards they seem worth it as shown by the continued practice of creating such items.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Cubewano

[Tsukinoki 11,631]

8 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Based off of what? Deluxes seem to be well worth the work and they're essentially the same process.

Not really.

Deluxes generally have concept and work done by people outside of DE (which has caused issues in the past, look at what happened with someone doing work on the ember deluxe), which is then finished up and put into the game by DE.

Alternate gender skins meanwhile?
DE would have to design that hand-in-hand with developing the main skin and make sure that they both look right to their standard.  This is a rather large increase in the work load when it comes to designing a frame.
Meanwhile the time it takes to get the new frame out increases because now instead of making one model/skin for the frame they have to make two.
Then they would have to hope that enough people are going to buy that alternate gender skin for them to have a positive ROI on making that skin.

Then throw in the fit that people would throw if say they didn't have a gender-swapped deluxe skin and things get far too troublesome.

Also you're ignoring the fact that the deluxe skins are usually very highly detailed with a distinct difference to the base frame...something that wouldn't really exist in a gender-swap.
Just because deluxes sell well does not mean that there would be an equal demand for a gender-swap skin.

Further the demand for a gender-swap doesn't seem that high.  Not often you see these types of threads in places.  So how many people would really go "oh a female wukong skin?  I'll buy that."  Because unless you can show that the demand for such a skin would give DE a positive ROI then the entire point is a non-starter.

[Cubewano 5,300]

7 hours ago, ExcaliburUmbra said:

Fair enough. Apologies for my mediocre reading comprehension.

I hope that they’ll figure out a way to implement this one day but considering how long it’s been relative to how often this topic crops up, I won’t be expecting much.

No bigs, we all have off periods. 

But agreed, it would certainly be an interesting direction to see explored (at least a little) during the life cycle of Warframe, I'd be particularly thrilled to see a throwback skin to the og ember aka Blaze. The time thing I'm less worried about given how sporadic DE is, it really  just takes someone on the team being bored and wanting to try something new to spark an effort, and I'd hazard to say the longer they stick to what they have now the more likely it is that a bored person will get curious. It's just a waiting game to get there, and until then it isn't like the game is lacking in other areas to make it a noted absence. 

Right now my focus is mostly on Excal Deluxe and the dream that Hydroid deluxe will get an equally stellar deluxe some day. (Squidboy doesn't get enough love v_v)

[(XBOX)Kuljack 511]

#genderequality4warframe

#IwasbornaboylimbobutIamagirllimbo

[Cubewano 5,300]

2 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Not really.

Deluxes generally have concept and work done by people outside of DE (which has caused issues in the past, look at what happened with someone doing work on the ember deluxe), which is then finished up and put into the game by DE.

Alternate gender skins meanwhile?
DE would have to design that hand-in-hand with developing the main skin and make sure that they both look right to their standard.  This is a rather large increase in the work load when it comes to designing a frame.
Meanwhile the time it takes to get the new frame out increases because now instead of making one model/skin for the frame they have to make two.
Then they would have to hope that enough people are going to buy that alternate gender skin for them to have a positive ROI on making that skin.

Then throw in the fit that people would throw if say they didn't have a gender-swapped deluxe skin and things get far too troublesome.

Also you're ignoring the fact that the deluxe skins are usually very highly detailed with a distinct difference to the base frame...something that wouldn't really exist in a gender-swap.
Just because deluxes sell well does not mean that there would be an equal demand for a gender-swap skin.

Further the demand for a gender-swap doesn't seem that high.  Not often you see these types of threads in places.  So how many people would really go "oh a female wukong skin?  I'll buy that."  Because unless you can show that the demand for such a skin would give DE a positive ROI then the entire point is a non-starter.

Nobody said they had to be designed in real time alongside the base design, or treated as anything more than deluxes, so most of this is null and void. 

The aspects of outside hires for concepting (which isn't always the case) isn't of much concern given the more toned down design variances for such a series, it's unlikely they would even need to hire an outside party for the endeavor, though if they did I'm not sure why you think it would work less than it has for other deluxes. 

How well they'd sell, and how people would respond to their lack of cross application is a non argument as they're highly hypothetical and can't be predicted. DE will respond appropriately to the results of the situation, if it doesn't sell they'd stop producing them, if there was a strong demand for deluxe translations, then they could consider pursuing such a direction. DE aren't foolish and they know how to respond to a market. 

At one time DE didn't think deluxes would be a popular practice, and nobody even spoke about the idea, then DE did Excal proto and it made an opening, some time later they contracted an artist and tried a little more, now we have dozens upon dozens of deluxes across multiple artists (contracted and internally) and its a standard part of the game that one can only assume is generating a good amount of profits otherwise they wouldn't be going as strongly as they are. Trying new things can be a very worthwhile endeavor. 

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 12,781]

1 hour ago, Cubewano said:

Again based off what? By DE standards they seem worth it as shown by the continued practice of creating such items.

You’re basically asking DE to suddenly add 41 skins to their work load while we already have content droughts because of how they’re approaching content like Railjack. And these skins won’t be super cool and flashy like the deluxe skins so there’s less incentive to buy them because they’re just a pointless gender swap of the frame with nothing unique about them.

[Katinka 7,367]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You’re basically asking DE to suddenly add 41 skins to their work load while we already have content droughts because of how they’re approaching content like Railjack.

No one is asking them to make them all immediately.  Presenting that as what Cubewano is asking for is a Strawman fallacy.

4 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

 And these skins won’t be super cool and flashy like the deluxe skins so there’s less incentive to buy them because they’re just a pointless gender swap of the frame with nothing unique about them.

I'd buy a skin for Ash based on the concept art in the OP.  I have no intention of buying over half a dozen of the existing deluxe skins.  Incentive to buy a cosmetic is fairly subjective.  Some will love it and some wont but until it's tried we wont really know how it would go.

[(PSN)The1stAzrael 300]

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 12,781]

1 hour ago, Katinka said:

No one is asking them to make them all immediately.  Presenting that as what Cubewano is asking for is a Strawman fallacy

Immediately or not it’s a sudden increase in things that have to be done along side all the other content that was already planned.

[JackHargreav 6,481]

2 hours ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Indeed. An other 15 pages long thread that will get locked. Yay

Edited October 1, 2019 by JackHargreav

[Proslackernifty 190]

I agree with DE and saying "no" to gender changing skins.

[Carnage2K4 2,769]

I'm down for a gender bender deluxe series...

[(PSN)wintersfrozen 483]

While De has stated they don't intend to release skins that would model swap a frame to the opposing gender they have said they are open to the idea of rereleasing frames of similar powers of the opposite genders down the line. So the female ash concept could always turn into something else in the same way female excel concept evolved into Nyx.

[Cubewano 5,300]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

While De has stated they don't intend to release skins that would model swap a frame to the opposing gender they have said they are open to the idea of rereleasing frames of similar powers of the opposite genders down the line. So the female ash concept could always turn into something else in the same way female excel concept evolved into Nyx.

That wouldn't really meet the purpose of wanting a gender bent skin, which is that it is still at the core the same frame you feel a preference towards but more feminine or masculine looking. Nobody wanting a male skin for Ember would consider Nezha an answer to their want, they're two entirely different frames with their own distinct theme and playstyle. Likewise nobody would find Nidus as an adequate gender swap for Saryn, sure they're both disease themed but they have two entirely different visual styles, they have two entirely different playstyles, there is nothing bent about them, they are not a slight shift in visual aesthetic, they are entirely new and different things, and if that is what a person was looking for they wouldn't be asking for a gender variant but rather just a new frame of a particular theme/playstyle. 

[Cubewano 5,300]

2 hours ago, Proslackernifty said:

I agree with DE and saying "no" to gender changing skins.

They never said no to the idea. 

[(PSN)wintersfrozen 483]

3 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

That wouldn't really meet the purpose of wanting a gender bent skin, which is that it is still at the core the same frame you feel a preference towards but more feminine or masculine looking. Nobody wanting a male skin for Ember would consider Nezha an answer to their want, they're two entirely different frames with their own distinct theme and playstyle. Likewise nobody would find Nidus as an adequate gender swap for Saryn, sure they're both disease themed but they have two entirely different visual styles, they have two entirely different playstyles, there is nothing bent about them, they are not a slight shift in visual aesthetic, they are entirely new and different things, and if that is what a person was looking for they wouldn't be asking for a gender variant but rather just a new frame of a particular theme/playstyle. 

While that might be I believe there have been a few dev streams where the topic has been talked about and the conclusion is always more or less a hard no on the releasing of gender bending skins, simply due to the resources it would take and how its not the direction they want to take the game.

[Talonflight 327]

I think its something that people would purchase on about the same level as some of the non-deluxe skins. Release them slowly, one at a time, have the C team work on it or contract someon eelse to do it.

I'd slap down a hell of a lot of plat for it.

[(PSN)Kakurine2 1,562]

As others have said.  Thats a genderswap skin concept.  And de basically already said no as it would be too costly to dump development time/resources into it.

Which seems odd you would think since we can already swap skins and animation sets.  A genderbend skin should work the same.  But i guess the code is borked like zaws.

I have said it before.  Why not have the tennogen people be given the option to do most of the work under supervision of de.  De can sell the genderswap skins and share a little more pie with the tennogen artists.

De makes money with minimal loss of their time/resources.  Artist get more money for thier efforts.  Players get something fun.  De gets fairly cheap volunteer labor.

Everyone wins?

But thats my 2 cents.

[(PSN)Kakurine2 1,562]

Has anyone else also noticed a few tennogen armor atatchments look somewhat suggestive enough that one could use them with female animations to make a frame appear more femanine.

If the atatchments i am referring to make it into the game.  I am going to be using them for that reason.

Edited October 2, 2019 by (PS4)Kakurine2

[JackHargreav 6,481]

It seems like some ppl rather want to have every male frame switched to female.

Which sounds a bit perverted.

I'm not a huge fan of gender limitations but in warframe's case i can accept it since every frame was made to be unique. And their gender plays into that.

And we have the operator.

[HAYABU5A 3,859]