Nightwave "Platinum Prestige" Overhaul

[Violet_Xe]

   This is a concept and feedback but it's too much of a concept to be posted in Feedback so... here it shall be posted. I should also say now this is only advice for the rewards, not the grind so don't expect suggestions for rep and missions. Many players have come to the conclusion, nightwave is an unrewarding grind made for new player difficulty and accessibility. This is a waste as you have a reward system only for one audience, why not increase that audience.
   I've been comparing our "season pass" to other games and here's my Idea. Platinum Prestige. I've improved the rewards for more audiences, made it more new player friendly, and made rewards feel more fair and controllable for the player.
   Every rank will grant 50 credits of that wave so at the end of nightwave you should have 3000 credits to spend. No other rewards for the pass as you trade the credits for the desired rewards at your own leisure. Spend wisely or conserve as you can't get everything. Of course I believe this should be raised either to 75 credits per rank, or maybe 75 ranks in total instead of 60. After you prestige, you gain access to even better and more special rewards which are sure to benefit both DE and us.
   Before I continue I want to say this to DE. If you give us credits, a token system to redeem prizes. Atleast make the prizes worth while. use the system you gave us, don't put the good rewards in the pass and let us choose them. you just gave us the illusion of choice with our credits. It just devalues the work you put into the offering system.

 Now here is the concept. Rather than forcing players to work for something for months, they can pick and choose what they want which prevents burnout. This is far more effective at getting players to play nightwave because they are NEVER rewarded with something they don't want and then can continue to play the game content with what they've earned. This turns nightwave into an optional selective quest which always grants you what you want, and when you get everything you want you can leave. This means it isn't a chore, but a quest to get only items that internist you.

PRE PRESTIGE OFFERINGS
Umbral Forma (650 Credits)
Tier 0 Unique Accessory (600 Credits)
   -Armor
   -Operator Suit
   -Sentinel Stuff
Selected Arcane (450 Credits)
Forma Bundle (350 Credits)
Tier 1 Unique Accessory (325 Credits)
   -Weapon Skin
   -Unique color pallets
Ephemera (275 Credits)
Nightwave Resource Booster (225 Credits) - Only active until next weekly refresh
Nightwave Affinity Booster (225 Credits) - Only active until next weekly refresh
Nightwave Credit Booster (225 Credits) - Only active until next weekly refresh
Exilus Adapter (200 Credits)
Orokin Catalyst (175 Credits)
Orokin Reactor (175 Credits)
Relic Pack (175 Credits)
Vauban Part (150) Credits)
Augment 1 (150 Credits)
Augment 2 (150 Credits)
Tier 2 Unique Accessory (150 Credits)
   -Orbiter Decorations
   -KDrive Art
   -Portraits
Tier 3 Unique Accessory (100 Credits)
   -ALL Alternate helmets
   -Reskin skins
   -Emblem
   -Sigil
Weapon Blueprints (100 Credits)
Aura Mods (100 Credits)
Nitain Extract 3X (25 Credits)
Tellurium 1X (25 Credits) *Imperium might need alot*
Kuva 750 (25 Credits)

PLATINUM PRESTIGE OFFERINGS
Platinum 25 (125 Credits)
Platinum Discount 75% (1750 Credits)
Platinum Discount 50% (1050 Credits)
Random Primary Riven Mod (275 Credits)
Secondary Riven Mod (275 Credits)
Melee Riven Mod (275 Credits)
Wolf Beacon (100 Credits)

   Now I will discuss why I would make these changes. For platinum, I doubt I need to explain but I'll say the most important parts because people may not know much about the reasons behind premium currencies. Now alot of this will sound grimy and I hate talking about why companies use premium currency but these rewards are honestly good.
   Free premium currency is a mental fishing hook used by fortnite, dauntless, and other games to keep players pushing through the pass. This then makes the player feel one foot in the door, and spend money for more premium currency to get what they want. However dirty it sounds, this is still a good thing as giving new players platinum means they'll have a safety net in case they misuse the plat they're given at the start. it also accelerates them to our level faster while showing that you can get premium currency without paying. This SHOULD keep more players in the game.
   Next the discounts. If you really want to sacrifice a massive portion of credits and risk missing out on some items, then by all means go right ahead. This is a way to reward and entice players that are unlucky with logins meaning they will pay DE more money and thus support the game. 

   Next we have rivens. If some players are already maxed on plat, then they can take their chance on riven mods. they are always relevant and the amount you can gain from this should undoubtedly satisfy the market community making nightwave worth their while. Not only that it should also lower the price of rivens by saturating the market with more riven mods. This makes rivens more affordable for all players involved... hopefully.

   Of course the Wolf Beacon must be something that's added to the prestige locked rewards. I actually haven't seen the wolf since his nightwave and it's almost impossible to get the hammer because of that. Atleast stalker has some way to affect spawn rates, but with the wolf no such thing exists. I get that he's meant to hunt us but you're locking a unique weapon of THOR cosplay behind a massive time gate.

   We now have the Nightwave boosters. If the prestige isn't your thing and you can't buy that booster because you don't have the plat. then the nightwave will offer you a way to play during that nightwave, giving you that boost. This sounds pretty basic but what it does is significant. During the nightwave people will feel more rewards coming to them and rather then seeing it as a grind for a specific item, this type of player will see it as a 3 month booster. 

   Relic Packs would be added because players always need relics. Everything is vaulted eventually, and unlike our keys of old we don't get to instantly farm them out of the game. These relic packs simply provide another way to get relics. Syndicate relic farming is much easier and isn't as risky because there are better things than relics here.

   Tellurium, Kuva, and Nitain. These resources have been added as a way to spend leftover credits for difficult and much needed resources.

   There is one last major benefit to this system. This would greatly benefit content creators because they can easily get their hands on what they wish to showcase. Even better they can all showcase different things related to their taste and content. Fashionista such as AGGP and Hydroxate can take fashion instantly while modders like Leyzar and GHS can pick up augments off the bat. They all provide different content they care about, and they get to choose when they want to release it.
   This would be a MASSIVE change because your now showing everyone what everything does at once through your own free advertisement resulting in a happier player base and instant feedback for everything. DKDiamantes and others always make it priority to test and showcase if something would be worth it but with our current system they cannot do this until it's too late. You're making them plan around your rewards and tie them to your game in order to show that content, that's not fair in the slightest.

   That is my "Platinum Prestige" Concept, I hope it strikes a chord with some players. Also Nightwave is a radio station isn't it? Can we get some background tennotunes or something as a rare easter egg or toggleable option? 

[NekroArts]

I'm very confused about the color coding. What are they for?

Edited October 1, 2019 by NekroArts

[Violet_Xe]

10 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

I'm very confused about the color coding. What are they for?

I use them to seperate the rewards. purple would be for cosmetic, orange for modding and core gameplay, blue for resources, silver for platinum, red for consumables. Just to make things a bit easier to look at. If someone wanted to take a glance and instantly see what they want, non cosmetic players, they would know to ignore all purple as that's purely for the fashion frame audience. 

[LSG501]

I've been saying that rewards should be in a store (like plague star) since day one of nightwave 1 (as have others), this isn't anything new as an idea in all honesty.

EDIT: Plat is NEVER going to happen so no point even suggesting that, why because the 'battle pass' in warframe isn't paid for unlike fortnite.

Edited October 1, 2019 by LSG501

[Violet_Xe]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

I've been saying that rewards should be in a store (like plague star) since day one of nightwave 1 (as have others), this isn't anything new as an idea in all honesty.

EDIT: Plat is NEVER going to happen so no point even suggesting that, why because the 'battle pass' in warframe isn't paid for unlike fortnite.

well no harm in bringing it back up again it is a good idea. Sorry if it sounds like a broken record.

   As for plat, you never know it could happen. Yes it's unlikely but DE would benefit from this alot. it isn't paid sure but neither is the dauntless pass and you can still get that premium currency. Perhaps the price of the plat could be higher. However platinum, which is valuable to all players, combined with the system above would make nightwave loads better. It's not like DE would lose out either as putting this in helps them

   Besides If someone were to save up all of their credits for platinum, 3000 credits if someone wants to burn out, they would earn 600 platinum. 600 isn't all that much over 1-3 months considering people farm thousands off trade chat easily and that's if they give up all the other items like umbral forma and what not. 

[NekroArts]

Cosmetic

• Does the cosmetic goes off the assumption that there's always something new with each new NW and will there be more than one?
• Or does it goes off with what we having existing and skins are put in "regularly" in regards to what our current schedule is like? 
• If it goes off like bullet 1, will they follow the rule with the helmets (bought in a bundle) or will they each have the price individually?

Edited October 1, 2019 by NekroArts

[Violet_Xe]

8 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

Cosmetic

• Does the cosmetic goes off the assumption that there's always something new with each new NW and will there be more than one?
• Or does it goes off with what we having existing and skins are put in "regularly" in regards to what our current schedule is like? 
• If it goes off like bullet 1, will they follow the rule with the helmets (bought in a bundle) or will they each have the price individually?

   Yes and no, there doesn't always need to be cosmetics. It's more of an example to show what the cost for a tier of reward would be. I'm pretty sure that NW would always have some high end cosmetic in the form of an ephemera or tier 0 reward. If a cosmetic does show up it should be priced appropriately within the 4 tiers. If there is no Tier 0 cosmetic then there's no Tier 0 cosmetic. If there's no Ephemera then there's no Ephemera. 

   Just an example "Saturn Six Armor Set (600 Credits)" would be a tier 0. Each part of a saturn six would not cost 600 credits that would be impossible to obtain. However if it's a stand alone item such as this "Protosomid Shoulder Guard (600 Credits)" That would also be a Tier 0 item. It comes in a pack if it's meant to. The current "Two Handed Nikana Maligna" would be an example of a stand alone Tier 1. However all rewards and skins would be available anytime and won't rely on rotations. They aren't rewards for completing the NW, it's something you can purchase in the offering area.

The "ALL" in alternate helmets simply means that all the alternate helmets would be available, not actually all of them for that amount of credits. Just for clarification.

[LSG501]

24 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

   Besides If someone were to save up all of their credits for platinum, 3000 credits if someone wants to burn out, they would earn 600 platinum. 600 isn't all that much over 1-3 months considering people farm thousands off trade chat easily and that's if they give up all the other items like umbral forma and what not. 

People have paid for the plat that we trade for, yes it might be somewhere far down the chain but it has been paid for.

DE just aren't going to give away plat at the level you're suggesting, it's one of the few ways they actually get paid. 

[Violet_Xe]

4 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

People have paid for the plat that we trade for, yes it might be somewhere far down the chain but it has been paid for.

DE just aren't going to give away plat at the level you're suggesting, it's one of the few ways they actually get paid. 

I know this stuff doesn't magically pop into existence but It's a business trick. You give some to gain more. Yes it's a risk but it pays off if it works. They entice players more to nightwave, and get them playing more turning them into long term players. Again it also provides a safety net and shows new players premium currency can be earned. This also alleviates some pay to win feeling when you first start the game. Furthermore if they did add the discount to the offerings then then players would be paying way more.

[HugintheCrow]

8 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

It's a business trick.

How about you get real and stop suggesting anti-consumer practices, like they are something good?

This abusive, psychologically manipulative trash shouldn't even be legal.

What the actual #*!% is wrong with you?

Edited October 1, 2019 by HugintheCrow

[Lazarow]

56 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

EDIT: Plat is NEVER going to happen so no point even suggesting that, why because the 'battle pass' in warframe isn't paid for unlike fortnite.

even fortnite has 200 vbucks per season with the free pass which doesnt require you to pay anything

Edited October 1, 2019 by Lazarow

[Violet_Xe]

3 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

How about you get real and stop suggesting anti-consumer practices, like they are something good?

This abusive, psychologically manipulative trash shouldn't even be legal.

What the actual #*!% is wrong with you?

I think you're misunderstanding this. It's not anti consumer. I said this already. 

1 hour ago, Violet_Xe said:

   Now I will discuss why I would make these changes. For platinum, I doubt I need to explain but I'll say the most important parts because people may not know much about the reasons behind premium currencies. Now alot of this will sound grimy and I hate talking about why companies use premium currency but these rewards are honestly good.

   DE is a company, they need money so I suggested a system which benefits both sides. I agree with you it feels disgusting but the fact is it is consumer friendly. I'm aware of psychological tricks other companies pull and it isn't right but that doesn't mean it can't be remade into something that's beneficial to both the player and the company. For your work you get platinum, or you could get a discount for a larger amount of platinum.

   I will admit however it is psychologically manipulative. But you'd be surprised how much of that is littered in everyday life from work to food and even warframe itself. Psychological manipulation is present in adds. Heck the core of a grind game such as warframe is to provide content that keeps players coming back for more. Warframe is a mutually beneficial relationship between the company and you founded on a companies understanding of what YOU want. 

   You've associated psychology with something negative when you shouldn't. Also do try to be respectful.

[HugintheCrow]

46 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

Also do try to be respectful.

lol

Do try to deserve respect before asking for it.

[Violet_Xe]

1 minute ago, HugintheCrow said:

lol

Do try to deserve respect before asking for it.

Well those are the rules of the forums, and I didn't do anything to deserve disrespect. It's just you not understanding that even DE uses these practices on a daily basis. If you connect them to negative things that's on you.

[HugintheCrow]

15 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

Well those are the rules of the forums, and I didn't do anything to deserve disrespect. It's just you not understanding that even DE uses these practices on a daily basis. If you connect them to negative things that's on you.

You're literally praising predatory "business" tactics. That's it, that's enough for any reasonable person to know you are not worth respecting. It's simple, and it's sad you're trying to get things worse for yourself for no reason.
I hope you see what you're doing wrong, at some point. Attempt to educate yourself on anti-consumer practices used by corporations next time before speaking about them.

[NekroArts]

Okay, so this will be divide into 2 parts: veterans and platinum (market involvement), and then stand alone points (only those that's concerning).

Veterans and Platinum (market involvement)

My biggest concern with this is when the player (veteran) get most of the things they need/want some of the things on the list gets crossed out forever or until something new gets in, thus leaving the other things more tempting to buy. This also assumes (from your clarification earlier) the rewards being existing cosmetics.

8 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

PRE PRESTIGE OFFERINGS
Umbral Forma (650 Credits)
Tier 0 Unique Accessory (600 Credits)
   -Armor
   -Operator Suit
   -Sentinel Stuff
Selected Arcane (450 Credits)
Forma Bundle (350 Credits)
Tier 1 Unique Accessory (325 Credits)
   -Weapon Skin
   -Unique color pallets
Ephemera (275 Credits)
Nightwave Resource Booster (225 Credits) - Only active until next weekly refresh
Nightwave Affinity Booster (225 Credits) - Only active until next weekly refresh
Nightwave Credit Booster (225 Credits) - Only active until next weekly refresh
Exilus Adapter (200 Credits)
Orokin Catalyst (175 Credits)
Orokin Reactor (175 Credits)
Relic Pack (175 Credits)
Vauban Part (150) Credits)
Augment 1 (150 Credits)
Augment 2 (150 Credits)
Tier 2 Unique Accessory (150 Credits)
   -Orbiter Decorations
   -KDrive Art
   -Portraits
Tier 3 Unique Accessory (100 Credits)
   -ALL Alternate helmets
   -Reskin skins
   -Emblem
   -Sigil
Weapon Blueprints (100 Credits)
Aura Mods (100 Credits)
Nitain Extract 3X (25 Credits)
Tellurium 1X (25 Credits) *Imperium might need alot*
Kuva 750 (25 Credits)

PLATINUM PRESTIGE OFFERINGS
Platinum 25 (125 Credits)
Platinum Discount 75% (1750 Credits)
Platinum Discount 50% (1050 Credits)
Random Primary Riven Mod (275 Credits)
Secondary Riven Mod (275 Credits)
Melee Riven Mod (275 Credits)
Wolf Beacon (100 Credits)

      Looking at the list now (in my perspective/opinion) the most desirable thing would be saving for the Platinum Prestige Offerings. A 75% discount being purchasable is huge. Assuming the the acts remains the same (same number of acts, same number of standing) players will get 43,500 standing at the end of each week. That's little over 3 ranks per week (4 ranks actually, math mistake) and around 7 weeks to hit max rank (without accounting for standing coming from things like the Saturn 6 Fugitives and the Zealots and extension weeks).

• 50 credits per prestige rank (30) = 1,500 credits
• 75 per prestige rank = 2,250
• 50 per prestige rank (prestige 30 raised to 45) = 2,250

So almost every other month they could be buying the 75% discount and that $200 (4,300 plat, highest cost) becomes $50; that's not a good thing. Something like this only makes the business look good in the short run as is shows a spike in purchases, but doesn't work in the long run when you realize they're making less money should they continue.

     With a spike in use of the 75% discount, I'm afraid that the prices for trading will inflate uncontrollably. Not just the free market in trade chat will be affected, but also the in-game market. With more plat in circulation the sellers and DE will have to increase their prices to combat the excess demand. This will look really bad for the casuals as they will feel the need to ignore the other goods just so they can get the 75% discount an not have to pay the $200, all for the sake of having enough plat to buy "x" item from within the game.

Standalone Points

8 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

Umbral Forma (650 Credits)

I'm sorry, but no. For as good as the Umbra/Sacrificial mods are, Umbra Forma isn't a necessity to have currently. With the way of how our power creep works, if DE implements a "harder" content it would push the need to have them. There are too many complaints on how builds/frames/weapons are being restrictive (both legitimately and "casually").

8 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

Ephemera (275 Credits)

Not all of them since some are sensible to farm. At the top of my head to be purchasable would be (guaranteed) Blazing and Smoking; and (maybe) Freezing, and Shocking.

8 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

Orokin Catalyst (175 Credits)
Orokin Reactor (175 Credits)
Platinum 25 (125 Credits)

I know I said standalone, but my problem happens with these two working in conjunction. Since a Reactor/Catalyst each only cost 20p, it's better for players to buy the 25 plat with credits thus saving 50 credits for another purchase and gain 5 plat. So assuming 1 Reactor and 2 Catalyst, player would buy the 25 plat three time saving them a total of 150 credits and gained 15 plat.

To put that in weeks perspective if they went straight to buying the Reactor/Catalyst (525 credit) without that 25 plat loop, they need around 10.5 ranks (105,000 standing needed) - 2 weeks, 3 days. If they use the loop cost for those 3 would be 375 credits, that's 7.5 ranks (75,000 standing) - 1 week, 5 days. That's 5 days worth of savings. And that's also not accounting for Gift of the Lotus and Invasions.

So what's wrong with this "savings"? It's that getting Reactors/Catalyst becomes too easy with a hint of plat profit. I don't mind another way of getting them, but don't make them this easy.

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by NekroArts
Math mistake, change “3 ranks per week” to 4

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, Lazarow said:

even fortnite has 200 vbucks per season with the free pass which doesnt require you to pay anything

and warframe has trade.... DE aren't going to start sticking in plat as a reward in nightwave.  And correct me if I'm wrong here (I don't exactly play fortnite) but isn't pretty much everything in the game bought with vbucks, unlike warframe where you can actually earn stuff still.

 

1 hour ago, Violet_Xe said:

I know this stuff doesn't magically pop into existence but It's a business trick. You give some to gain more. Yes it's a risk but it pays off if it works. They entice players more to nightwave, and get them playing more turning them into long term players. Again it also provides a safety net and shows new players premium currency can be earned. This also alleviates some pay to win feeling when you first start the game. Furthermore if they did add the discount to the offerings then then players would be paying way more.

You are so out of touch with the game business model that you really should stop now.... the main currency of premium items in the game is plat, remove the incentive to buy it by sticking it in nightwave will not encourage people to buy more of it.. even more so when DE are clearly aiming the game at the newbies who want instant gratification and will buy it rather than grinding for it, why do you think we're getting the grinds we are at the moment. 

This is honestly starting to sound more like you want free plat without using trade or your own money than a viable alternative to the existing nightwave model, at least in mine and other suggestions we didn't include plat as a reward because we want the game to have some sort of financial income still...

Edited October 1, 2019 by LSG501

[Violet_Xe]

17 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

You're literally praising predatory "business" tactics. That's it, that's enough for any reasonable person to know you are not worth respecting. It's simple, and it's sad you're trying to get things worse for yourself for no reason.
I hope you see what you're doing wrong, at some point. Attempt to educate yourself on anti-consumer practices used by corporations next time before speaking about them.

I am not praising them, you're completely misunderstanding. Look monitization and micro transactions are a necessity in free to play games such as warframe. You're naive if you think they aren't and you're naive if you think DE doesn't use this as well. The only difference between DE and other companies is how greedy, lazy, and predatory they make their tactics. If you can convince me otherwise then certainly try as this is a sensitive topic and I want to see what becomes of it and how other people see it. But I'm not going to simply back down from what I think could help the game. prove to me with evidence and opinions that my idea is cruel and twisted without benefit to the game, company, and customer. So far all you've done is talk, and that's not evidence.

No company is above asking for money, do you think DE gets by on charity? Do you think they don't go after moneya t the expense of the games quality? They manipulate the system to their advantage just as any other company does. They follow the next big thing for PR boosts, they make login and dailys to attract you to the game, they make discounts to make you feel pressured to buy. They aren't as bad as other companies as they've taken out some systems that were obviously overused but they're a company none the less.

The only thing you're doing is shining a bad light on yourself for calling me names, pointing a finger at me, and telling me i'm wrong without any supportive evidence. To me it just sounds like you've had a bad experience with other companies. The tactics other companies is predatory, but only because they make them that way. They can be reused in a much better and safer way which makes more sense.

---------------

2 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

You are so out of touch with the game business model that you really should stop now.... the main currency of premium items in the game is plat, remove the incentive to buy it by sticking it in nightwave will not encourage people to buy more of it.. even more so when DE are clearly aiming the game at the newbies who want instant gratification and will buy it rather than grinding for it, why do you think we're getting the grinds we are at the moment. 

This is honestly starting to sound more like you want free plat without using trade or your own money than a viable alternative to the existing nightwave model, at least in mine and other suggestions we didn't include plat as a reward because we want the game to have some sort of financial income still...

Yes I'm not an expert on game models but as I said before it's a normal business tactic to give some to get people to gain long term players. If players can get platinum without paying, then it has to be harder to get and in smaller quantity. Sure 600 is a decent amount but that's an example. You could raise it to 200 credits or even 250 to where you can max get 375 or 300. And that's over months of work IF you decide to spend all your credits on that which is unlikely for many other players. Augments, cosmetics, beacons, arcanes, and umbral forma exist too after all.

I personally don't think i'm removing the incentive to buy the currency. And I don't want free plat, I came up with this idea while watching a video. I have all the stuff I want that require platinum. More would be nice yes but I wouldn't even go for plat as I like the fashion that comes with nightwave, the augments, forma, and the arcanes. I wouldn't even have any creds left for platinum. And as for me not wanting to spend money I've spent hundreds on this game and continue to do so, I've no problem with giving my money for currency and skins. Infact it's ONLY warframe I do this for.

You can still have financial income while giving out a currency. As I said it's a choice. You could get plat, or you could spend the currency on other items in the market. Most players don't even get past rank 30 because of burnout. going to 60 for all 3000 credits is difficult and sacrificial. You're telling me you're willing to work yourself to the bone for 1-3 months getting to rank 60 for just 300 or 400 plat? I could earn plat faster by using prime mods or selling frames and rivens.
As for the grinds of warframe, it's still months of grind to even get that plat and it's not exactly easy to deny everything else on the list. My calculations for plat definitely could be better but I'm only suggesting a concept for an additional reward once you prestige. Again I didn't really think about the exact math of the platinum/credit conversion, I would've done that if I was in charge of the game but I'm not. Plus it's late at night, now Nekro however def did the math I would've done in the morning. 

[Violet_Xe]

36 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

Okay, so this will be divide into 2 parts: veterans and platinum (market involvement), and then stand alone points (only those that's concerning).

Veterans and Platinum (market involvement)

My biggest concern with this is when the player (veteran) get most of the things they need/want some of the things on the list gets crossed out forever or until something new gets in, thus leaving the other things more tempting to buy. This also assumes (from your clarification earlier) the rewards being existing cosmetics.

      Looking at the list now (in my perspective/opinion) the most desirable thing would be saving for the Platinum Prestige Offerings. A 75% discount being purchasable is huge. Assuming the the acts remains the same (same number of acts, same number of standing) players will get 43,500 standing at the end of each week. That's little over 3 ranks per week and around 7 weeks to hit max rank (without accounting for standing coming from things like the Saturn 6 Fugitives and the Zealots and extension weeks).

• 50 credits per prestige rank (30) = 1,500 credits
• 75 per prestige rank = 2,250
• 50 per prestige rank (prestige 30 raised to 45) = 2,250

So almost every other month they could be buying the 75% discount and that $200 (4,300 plat, highest cost) becomes $50; that's not a good thing. Something like this only makes the business look good in the short run as is shows a spike in purchases, but doesn't work in the long run when you realize they're making less money should they continue.

     With a spike in use of the 75% discount, I'm afraid that the prices for trading will inflate uncontrollably. Not just the free market in trade chat will be affected, but also the in-game market. With more plat in circulation the sellers and DE will have to increase their prices to combat the excess demand. This will look really bad for the casuals as they will feel the need to ignore the other goods just so they can get the 75% discount an not have to pay the $200, all for the sake of having enough plat to buy "x" item from within the game.

 

That is a good point, should probably chop a 75% to a lower number like 50% at best or maybe a custom one specific to nightwave for 40% off? Probably a bit much to add a 75% off in. Maybe also increase the credit cost. Maybe like a 40/50% for 2200 credits? It would mean that they can't trade for all the event items like the augments, umbral forma, and other useful items aside from say nitain.

46 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

I'm sorry, but no. For as good as the Umbra/Sacrificial mods are, Umbra Forma isn't a necessity to have currently. With the way of how our power creep works, if DE implements a "harder" content it would push the need to have them. There are too many complaints on how builds/frames/weapons are being restrictive (both legitimately and "casually").

Well i only put umbral forma cost so I to prevent people from buying tons per nightwave. Maybe an umbral forma would be a special rank 15 or 20 gift? being the only item given through a rank system you could only ever get 1 per nightwave still and no other issues would arise with it right? Only issue would be counterbalancing credits for it's absence.

50 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

Not all of them since some are sensible to farm. At the top of my head to be purchasable would be (guaranteed) Blazing and Smoking; and (maybe) Freezing, and Shocking.

Well when I mean ephemera I meant a unique ephemera that would come with nightwave. Not the ones already in the game. Eidolon and Spore being the only two we've gotten so far.

53 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

I know I said standalone, but my problem happens with these two working in conjunction. Since a Reactor/Catalyst each only cost 20p, it's better for players to buy the 25 plat with credits thus saving 50 credits for another purchase and gain 5 plat. So assuming 1 Reactor and 2 Catalyst, player would buy the 25 plat three time saving them a total of 150 credits and gained 15 plat.

To put that in weeks perspective if they went straight to buying the Reactor/Catalyst (525 credit) without that 25 plat loop, they need around 10.5 ranks (105,000 standing needed) - 2 weeks, 3 days. If they use the loop cost for those 3 would be 375 credits, that's 7.5 ranks (75,000 standing) - 1 week, 5 days. That's 5 days worth of savings. And that's also not accounting for Gift of the Lotus and Invasions.

So what's wrong with this "savings"? It's that getting Reactors/Catalyst becomes too easy with a hint of plat profit. I don't mind another way of getting them, but don't make them this easy.

Dumb >.< my bad lol. I wasn't really doing much in depth thought about the plat and potato prices. Was going to check stuff over again in the morning so thanks for pointing that out. I'd like for some way to get them to work together, have to think on that for a couple hours. Probably when I wake up tomorrow.

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, Violet_Xe said:

---------------

Yes I'm not an expert on game models but as I said before it's a normal business tactic to give some to get people to gain long term players. If players can get platinum without paying, then it has to be harder to get and in smaller quantity. Sure 600 is a decent amount but that's an example. You could raise it to 200 credits or even 250 to where you can max get 375 or 300. And that's over months of work IF you decide to spend all your credits on that which is unlikely for many other players. Augments, cosmetics, beacons, arcanes, and umbral forma exist too after all.

I personally don't think i'm removing the incentive to buy the currency. And I don't want free plat, I came up with this idea while watching a video. I have all the stuff I want that require platinum. More would be nice yes but I wouldn't even go for plat as I like the fashion that comes with nightwave, the augments, forma, and the arcanes. I wouldn't even have any creds left for platinum. And as for me not wanting to spend money I've spent hundreds on this game and continue to do so, I've no problem with giving my money for currency and skins. Infact it's ONLY warframe I do this for.

You can still have financial income while giving out a currency. As I said it's a choice. You could get plat, or you could spend the currency on other items in the market. Most players don't even get past rank 30 because of burnout. going to 60 for all 3000 credits is difficult and sacrificial. You're telling me you're willing to work yourself to the bone for 1-3 months getting to rank 60 for just 300 or 400 plat? I could earn plat faster by using prime mods or selling frames and rivens.
As for the grinds of warframe, it's still months of grind to even get that plat and it's not exactly easy to deny everything else on the list. My calculations for plat definitely could be better but I'm only suggesting a concept for an additional reward once you prestige. Again I didn't really think about the exact math of the platinum/credit conversion, I would've done that if I was in charge of the game but I'm not. Plus it's late at night, now Nekro however def did the math I would've done in the morning. 

Yeah you just don't get it.... DE are not aiming to keep players 'long term' why do you think we don't have an end game, why do you think everything is still be aimed at newbies.... the newbies are the ones buying the plat, they then spend it via trade or on cosmetics...

You've just proven yourself how silly your idea for plat is by saying you can still get a financial income while giving out free plat.....  I'm now a new player (I'm not)... oooh I get free plat from the easy to do nightwave and then I get told by chat I can sell my extra prime items for more free plat from trade... so if I can get free plat with little to no effort why would I spend money on the game if I'm only going to be here till I get bored in a few weeks/months....

Most players don't get past rank 30... um I have seen no end of players get past rank 30 this time, hell I'm not even trying and I'm at rank 55...

[Violet_Xe]

10 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Yeah you just don't get it.... DE are not aiming to keep players 'long term' why do you think we don't have an end game, why do you think everything is still be aimed at newbies.... the newbies are the ones buying the plat, they then spend it via trade or on cosmetics...

You've just proven yourself how silly your idea for plat is by saying you can still get a financial income while giving out free plat.....  I'm now a new player (I'm not)... oooh I get free plat from the easy to do nightwave and then I get told by chat I can sell my extra prime items for more free plat from trade... so if I can get free plat with little to no effort why would I spend money on the game if I'm only going to be here till I get bored in a few weeks/months....

Most players don't get past rank 30... um I have seen no end of players get past rank 30 this time, hell I'm not even trying and I'm at rank 55...

You're right they aren't focused on new players so let me rephrase this. Giving them platinum through nightwave, only a small amount, will keep more players in the game rather than instantly leaving. it pushes against pay to win.

And yes you can still have that. Tennogen for one is a pretty big income boost, Prime access is also a thing, steam exclusive skins. Tennocon and events. Premium currency isn't the only way for DE to get your money. Even then people will still pay for platinum because those who want to skip grind will skip the grind with money. you still have to grind primes. Giving only a small amount of plat out that's useful for newer players is a good idea because they can't sell prime items. They don't want to. They want to craft them, to keep their first valuable items that they worked hard for.

Yes they are the ones buying plat, but they wouldn't be the only ones if DE managed to retain players for longer. newer players should be our majority after 7 years of gameplay.

Also let me rephrase that as well. Many players don't care about pushing past rank 30. if you do then it's probably because it's an achievement which grants you nothing valuable. it gives you something to do. More than half of nightwave is forgotten ebcause we can hit rank 30 so early on. But on the flip side there are those who struggle to hit rank 30. Not everyone has the free time, patience, or care to hit rank 30 like you do. Some even join late and barely make it or take a leave of absence for a week.

If you're so concerned about the platinum then just accept with what I suggested, lower the amount of platinum or raise the cost of it. This is assuming players actually cap out at rank 60 and ignore all other rewards from the NW offerings. Arcanes, forma, potatoes, relics, accessories, nitain, or even a discount. Even the boosters would be a nice pickup. You would only have 3000 credits every NW and I doubt people would pass on these offerings. The point of platinum is just an incentive to play and stay.

 

[Violet_Xe]

20 hours ago, NekroArts said:

I know I said standalone, but my problem happens with these two working in conjunction. Since a Reactor/Catalyst each only cost 20p, it's better for players to buy the 25 plat with credits thus saving 50 credits for another purchase and gain 5 plat. So assuming 1 Reactor and 2 Catalyst, player would buy the 25 plat three time saving them a total of 150 credits and gained 15 plat.

To put that in weeks perspective if they went straight to buying the Reactor/Catalyst (525 credit) without that 25 plat loop, they need around 10.5 ranks (105,000 standing needed) - 2 weeks, 3 days. If they use the loop cost for those 3 would be 375 credits, that's 7.5 ranks (75,000 standing) - 1 week, 5 days. That's 5 days worth of savings. And that's also not accounting for Gift of the Lotus and Invasions.

So what's wrong with this "savings"? It's that getting Reactors/Catalyst becomes too easy with a hint of plat profit. I don't mind another way of getting them, but don't make them this easy.

 

What if there was a trade cap. only 1 reactor and catalyst per part. Every NW season they can max walk out with 5 reactors and 5 catalyst. That was they can't abuse a system.

if you put a cap on it and then raise the cost or lower the amount of plat earned with the offerings the loop is gone right? The reverse could also be an option with a limit of plat trades and altering platinum.

[LSG501]

54 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

You're right they aren't focused on new players so let me rephrase this. Giving them platinum through nightwave, only a small amount, will keep more players in the game rather than instantly leaving. it pushes against pay to win.

And yes you can still have that. Tennogen for one is a pretty big income boost, Prime access is also a thing, steam exclusive skins. Tennocon and events. Premium currency isn't the only way for DE to get your money. Even then people will still pay for platinum because those who want to skip grind will skip the grind with money. you still have to grind primes. Giving only a small amount of plat out that's useful for newer players is a good idea because they can't sell prime items. They don't want to. They want to craft them, to keep their first valuable items that they worked hard for.

Yes they are the ones buying plat, but they wouldn't be the only ones if DE managed to retain players for longer. newer players should be our majority after 7 years of gameplay.

Also let me rephrase that as well. Many players don't care about pushing past rank 30. if you do then it's probably because it's an achievement which grants you nothing valuable. it gives you something to do. More than half of nightwave is forgotten ebcause we can hit rank 30 so early on. But on the flip side there are those who struggle to hit rank 30. Not everyone has the free time, patience, or care to hit rank 30 like you do. Some even join late and barely make it or take a leave of absence for a week.

If you're so concerned about the platinum then just accept with what I suggested, lower the amount of platinum or raise the cost of it. This is assuming players actually cap out at rank 60 and ignore all other rewards from the NW offerings. Arcanes, forma, potatoes, relics, accessories, nitain, or even a discount. Even the boosters would be a nice pickup. You would only have 3000 credits every NW and I doubt people would pass on these offerings. The point of platinum is just an incentive to play and stay.

 

Seriously stop....  you're just making it worse....

And changing that bit in bold from what you were quoting isn't going to suddenly make me think your idea is a good one.

[Violet_Xe]

On 2019-10-02 at 1:56 AM, LSG501 said:

Seriously stop....  you're just making it worse....

And changing that bit in bold from what you were quoting isn't going to suddenly make me think your idea is a good one.

   Saying "you're just making it worse" isn't an counterargument. it just ignores the points I raised. The only thing I'm hearing is just telling me i'm wrong and showing me one of thousands of hypothetical situations because it would fit your argument that people will focus solely on platinum.

   You said that it would take away income and i gave an explanation how it would not only benefit the player count but also how that's not their only source of income. That's not a discussion or debate just passing something off. Not to mention that they make so much money every year a tiny boost to that plat wouldn't cut into them all that much.
   You said that players want to pay rather than grind and yet you still have to grind and wait for you to even have the ability to get this small amount of platinum. which means little to nothing for mid and veteran players.
   You also openly ignored my middle ground where I said if it worries you then lower the plat you can get from it. Considering the diminishing returns they would get by purchasing plat instead of buying the items from the offerings, it isn't logical to only buy platinum. yet again I ahev to ay it isn't logical to say that people will ignore the other EXCLUSIVE nightwave rewards.
   You said I removed the incentive to spend by bypassing grind, I didn't because there's a booster there for credits. It's basically saying stay for the nightwave to make the most use grinding with the booster you bought. Also considering that you have to wait and build up the creds to purchase plat or a discount, the impatient will still spend money.
   You said that DE was aiming it to new players so I clarified what one of the purposes of this was, to assist new player progression and retain both veteran and newer players preventing the player base from shrinking and bleeding out more than it already is. It's retaining the attention of multiple audiences.
   You tried to deny that WF's NW isn't like other passes because it isn't paid thus giving plat is terrible. But other passes from other games actually give you premium currency along with useful items and cosmetics. Something like Dauntless has 2 different currencies and still provides a premium currency in the pass. So it couldn't be that bad of a suggestion.
   
   You've been saying "You're making it worse" " You're out of touch with the game model" but your argument is based off the idea that people will only focus on platinum when compared to other exclusive and useful items which isn't realistic given the amount of time they spend, the amount of plat they gain from it, and the items they need to ignore. It's meant to be an amount of plat to give players an incentive to prestige. After that they can spend that meager amount of plat on stuff that wouldn't be necessary or useful items such as profiles, potatoes, shawzin, etc etc. That or just a small boost incase your short that tiny bit of platinum.
   Plus the items in the nightwave already have weight in plat. Top tier arcanes, potatoes, cosmetics, colors, forma, resources, augments, etc etc. That being said if the amount of pure plat you gain from nightwave is less cost efficient than buying the items outright then what's the issue? It obviously isn't funding because DE makes enough as is. It sounds like you don't like platinum as a reward because it's pure platinum. Sugata cost 15, syandana and armor cost 45-100, forma bundles cost 35, so it shouldn't be an issue if you can get platinum if it's diminishing returns.

   This option for platinum acts as a safety net for new players and a way for them to progress through the game and a way to keep new and old players focused on nightwave retaining them for longer. If they want platinum they can make way more by selling items if they want and that's what us vets do because we already have all the things we need. Telling new players to sell their items that they farmed for is ridiculous. They should be able to keep the first valuable they get, not sell them for slots.

[LSG501]

8 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

   Saying "you're just making it worse" isn't an counterargument. it just ignores the points I raised. The only thing I'm hearing is just telling me i'm wrong and showing me one of thousands of hypothetical situations because it would fit your argument that people will focus solely on platinum.

   You said that it would take away income and i gave an explanation how it would not only benefit the player count but also how that's not their only source of income. That's not a discussion or debate just passing something off. Not to mention that they make so much money every year a tiny boost to that plat wouldn't cut into them all that much.
   You said that players want to pay rather than grind and yet you still have to grind and wait for you to even have the ability to get this small amount of platinum. which means little to nothing for mid and veteran players.
   You also openly ignored my middle ground where I said if it worries you then lower the plat you can get from it. Considering the diminishing returns they would get by purchasing plat instead of buying the items from the offerings, it isn't logical to only buy platinum. yet again I ahev to ay it isn't logical to say that people will ignore the other EXCLUSIVE nightwave rewards.
   You said I removed the incentive to spend by bypassing grind, I didn't because there's a booster there for credits. It's basically saying stay for the nightwave to make the most use grinding with the booster you bought. Also considering that you have to wait and build up the creds to purchase plat or a discount, the impatient will still spend money.
   You said that DE was aiming it to new players so I clarified what one of the purposes of this was, to assist new player progression and retain both veteran and newer players preventing the player base from shrinking and bleeding out more than it already is. It's retaining the attention of multiple audiences.
   You tried to deny that WF's NW isn't like other passes because it isn't paid thus giving plat is terrible. But other passes from other games actually give you premium currency along with useful items and cosmetics. Something like Dauntless has 2 different currencies and still provides a premium currency in the pass. So it couldn't be that bad of a suggestion.
   
   You've been saying "You're making it worse" " You're out of touch with the game model" but your argument is based off the idea that people will only focus on platinum when compared to other exclusive and useful items which isn't realistic given the amount of time they spend, the amount of plat they gain from it, and the items they need to ignore. It's meant to be an amount of plat to give players an incentive to prestige. After that they can spend that meager amount of plat on stuff that wouldn't be necessary or useful items such as profiles, potatoes, shawzin, etc etc. That or just a small boost incase your short that tiny bit of platinum.
   Plus the items in the nightwave already have weight in plat. Top tier arcanes, potatoes, cosmetics, colors, forma, resources, augments, etc etc. That being said if the amount of pure plat you gain from nightwave is less cost efficient than buying the items outright then what's the issue? It obviously isn't funding because DE makes enough as is. It sounds like you don't like platinum as a reward because it's pure platinum. Sugata cost 15, syandana and armor cost 45-100, forma bundles cost 35, so it shouldn't be an issue if you can get platinum if it's diminishing returns.

   This option for platinum acts as a safety net for new players and a way for them to progress through the game and a way to keep new and old players focused on nightwave retaining them for longer. If they want platinum they can make way more by selling items if they want and that's what us vets do because we already have all the things we need. Telling new players to sell their items that they farmed for is ridiculous. They should be able to keep the first valuable they get, not sell them for slots.

Yeah and you say I'm the one out of touch....