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October 2019 Riven Disposition Updates

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9 minutes ago, supernils said:

because balance revolves around a weapon with a riven setup. Good weapon with bad riven = bad weapon with good riven. That's the idea of rivens. It's not that hard to understand.


No they're not taking the fun out of rivens you dummy, they're taking the fun out of weapons that everybody uses just because they're too good. They're actually adding the fun to underrepresented weapons. And that again helps the choice, the diversity of weapons in the game, which is like a core element of Warframe.

But when you're so one dimensional that you can only get fun out of making big boom ... I guess they could just buff Catchmoon and Rubico with every patch and keep that kind of players entertained. Or maybe at some point even they would understand.... but some people just take a little longer...

And that balance is failing spectacularly.

Problem is they are trying to "add fun" only by "removing fun" from other weapons, and that will never work. Bad weapons stay bad with good rivens, and good weapons scale based on their rivens for now, so a catchmoon nerf is nothing more than a catchmoon nerf, it won't make people use anything else, it will only weaken their strongest setup while keeping it their strongest setup.

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18 hours ago, WeaselBoy said:

It is both weapon usage and weapon strength. This was stated in the riven workshops. From the February update:

EX: Weapon has internal strength ranking of .55. See Catchmoon/Rubico, although those are probably .5 but we're using .55 for the sake of the example. DE will slowly shift disposition towards this number. Then player usage stats will determine if it should go down all the way to .5 or as high as .6ish. 

Right. Except in reality they nerf weapons (almost)no one ever uses too, so the usage barely factors. Yet haven't touched highly popular Acceltra . Which is absolutely scammy tactics towards all the players who pay thousands of plat for its rivens now, only to have them inevitably nerfed and devalued next month. So what is DE achieving besides pissing off the most dedicated players who invest lots of time and money in the game?

0.5 is just the lowest disposition at which point rivens are worthless (almost always not worth slotting over a regular mod)

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Put every riven dispo at neutral, only trolling scrubs like nerfs like this. People are gonna leave this game when you nerf the s%$t they like. That's what im going to do, gonna go play destiny 2 now thats its free.

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20 hours ago, xHeretic said:

Source? Because the wiki (a reliable source) says:

"The randomized attributes for Riven mods are affected by Disposition, a modifier provided by the system that collates the usage popularity of a given weapon across the entire player base. Disposition strength controls the range of the attributes available for each weapon."

And

"Disposition changes every three months, aligned with every new Prime Access. If a weapon's disposition is changed, the attributes on already unveiled Rivens for the weapon will be automatically adjusted to match the new disposition."

So, where I can find something from a reliable source to read past workshops and the wiki to stop spreading the "myth"?

They use 'internal rankings'  see it in the previous riven changes workshop posts like I said.

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I understand the salt, I have a Catchmoon Riven too. It was nice while it lasted, but we all KNEW it wouldn't last. Has anyone here ever done a DPS calculator for Catchmoon with a Riven? It's gross. It's absurd. It was in the tens of millions last I checked. But you can rest easy now. It's now at the very very bottom. No further nerfs (to riven disposition) are possible now.

Most of the salt in this thread is coming from the misapprehension that Riven Mods are stable. They're not, they're very slowly volatile. Your riven that you got for a brand new fun to play weapon will always bleed value, come the next disposition pass. Every 3 months, it will get hit, until it levels out. And then, given time, when the new-hotness usurps its popularity, it may come back up.

Rivens are a speculators market. They don't hold value in perpetuity. Players shelling out Thousands for rivens for new or newly primed weapons are simply foolish. DO NOT buy when a weapon is new, this is the highest the market is going to be for that mod. If it's new the the rivens for it are in low supply. If it's good, it's going to be popular, and it's disposition is only going to be devalued from here. The only question is, by how much, and when will its bottom line rest? If you want to have a stable riven for it, buy later, when it's cheaper, and so that you actually know what you're getting in terms of stats. If you buy now, know that the majority of the inflated price is going towards a temporary stat value that will deplete over time. You're shelling out big, to be OP while it lasts. Not forever. The party ends. If you're rich and you don't mind having a fleeting overpowered tryst with a new gun. Fine. Pay whale prices for something that's going to dive. But you paid whale prices for something GUARANTEED to dive.

The real con is the inflated prices on new weapon rivens. And probably, snipers. All Rivens for good guns, devalue. Trust me, I've spent 2k+ on a riven before. It's not worth it. Is it a hard lesson to learn? Yeah, sure stings, but learn, adapt, the system isn't changing. So you better.

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3 hours ago, anfuerudo said:

Well, it's their time and money and they're free to spend them as they please. However, that doesn't mean that the time and money they've spent should be devalued to the point when regular mod does not provide less benefits than riven(and I specifically worded it this way).

Also, no, they don't have themselves to blame, because, while changes to riven dispo are affected by popularity of every single weapon, they are powerless and quite often oprionless in this matter. Furthermore, DE being clear about dispo changes doesn't mean DE is being clear how those changes are made, how relevant they are, what impact on the game they have, how they will affect the usage of said weapons and what rivens will get buffed/nerfed next. So as far as regular players are concerned those changes are made at random, without any merit and often mean that they will have to reconfigure their builds to accommodate to changed situation.

Rivens providing less than regular mods has been a thing ever since the release of them. Many 1 blip rivens have been worse off than regular mods for a long long time. So it isnt something uncommon in the game and never has been either. So people are already aware of how low riven stats can go, which should be considered before investing, especially on weapons you know will obviously get a lower dispo either due to popularity/strength. 

There is also no need for DE to be clear about how those changes are made. We are playing an online multiplayer game, extremely close to being an MMO, changes are a natural and obvious outcome when it comes to stat balancing in such games. It is even there in the ToS/EULA before people start the game for the first time. DE is doing nothing but changing parts of their game and property, we the players own nothing in the end. The changes are also not done at random, they are done out of a popularity perspective, which in reality is just a way of saying the most powerful items for a certain piece of content are being rebalanced. And claiming that players need to reconfigure their builds to accommodate changes simply isnt true. No weapon will magically go from useful to useless due to a minor dispo change. The few rare cases where it could be true is the low one blip dispo area. But even there the current use of rivens is more to cover several needed mods with a single one instead of 2-3. Like covering the needed elemental combo and PT in a single mod instead of having to use 3, freeing up two slots for other things.

I just get the feeling that most people that do complain arent very familiar with the nature of online games to begin with.

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My poor poor akjagara but I guess it's fair as they are pretty good, though I hope this is the last time they get needed as I think they are at an acceptable lvl now 

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21 hours ago, Kylo. said:

Thanks for stating your opinion but I really don't care.

Cute. Work a bit more on it and you'll eventually live up to the name.

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For me the changes don't matter much, i barely feel the changes so it's fine really, but at this point i wouldn't be suprised if they removed kitgun rivens and then added an entry saying "fixed kitguns having riven dispositions unintentionally".

I guess the best i can hope for is the primary kitguns since atleast those will have a disposition that is acceptable, atleast for a couple months.

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21 hours ago, DebrisFlow said:

The ability to belittle a comment is insignificant next to the power of the Force…of us complaining togheter.

"Apes! Together! Strong!"

21 hours ago, DebrisFlow said:

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Great faith in human idiocy I have.

 

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Posted (edited)

Keep nerfing rubico rivens , tell ya what ? It'll still be the most used sniper anyway simply because how of amazing it is, with good FR, 95% crit chance with just Point Strike, basically no recoil, decent reload, the +50% crit dmg while zoomed in at max, fast combo counter ramp up... the lowest dispo rubico riven still makes that sniper superior.

Maybe if you boosted the other snipers so as not to have monster recoils, long reloads or goddamn charge times / slow fr i'm sure your precious statistics will show more usage of vectis prime, snipetron vandal, vulkar wraith rotfl

 

 

 

Edited by arm4geddon-117
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I would like to see some transparency regarding how weapons/rivens are selected for disposition changes.  Usage does not seem to be the sole deciding factor.

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Hi DE

Please please please stop nerf Rubico

I am hunter of eidelon and i cant play if you continue do this

Create a good sniper if you nerf rubico

You just kill this game 😕

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I’m getting salt poisoning from these comments  

its just a game people and it’s very clearly stated that deposition nerfs are based on usage 

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Mah boi Tiberon Prime getting nerfed.

Other than that, I don't have Riven for any of these weapons besides Rattleguts I barely use at all.

BUT I have a Riven for Nagantaka so yay for this one.

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb anfuerudo:

What a beautiful world you're living in. Where is it located and how can I get there?

who knows... 🙂

Spoiler

Unicorn.png

 

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I think most are Fair nerfs except Rubico especially, since its a sniper that people pay a lot of platinum for rivens for it.

And x2 Resource boosters for Kuva to grind long ours to get good rolls.

It's as if you want less people to use snipers full stop. Shouldn't you be encouraging people to

use a larger  variety and be able to use these weapons more often, not less often.

Maybe a sniper buff or overhaul is incoming? Otherwise I personally disagree with it.

 

Everything else however, I really appreciate the work you put in and am grateful for all of it. Thank you.

 

Maybe put Harrow Prime out next and all is forgotten 😄

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It would be more honest now to simply delete the catchmoon riven from the game, as its going to be less effective than a normal mod in the same slot.

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On top of making looting missions more interesting, you could make it so that going in with all looting frames makes the experience more intense/difficult and might require a 'bodyguard' warframe to be present for better looting. Maybe one warframe thats a weaker looter could be a better bodyguard etc. 

Also perhaps a new intense gamemode on each planet that is most efficient for looting but creates a more 'all or nothing' situation where the player has to make the tradeoff between extra loot and extra protection.

I know you want to balance things and this rough idea might be of use to you to make it more engaging to players without aggravating them by replacing existing systems.

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On 2019-10-01 at 2:11 PM, -Okashira- said:

stop messing with my catchmoon pls ... wth was the point of sinking all that kuva into the riven if you just keep nerfing it

Just learn how to mod without rivens, you dont need them especially given how easy content in the game currently is

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Posted (edited)
vor 22 Stunden schrieb Xzorn:

 

Haha!  Yes, keep buffing the face melting weapons. Tiberon can't even come close to Quanta. Makes no sense, I love it.

Poor Rattleguts. You're 1 of 3 good automatic secondaries and you get punished for it.

I still cry  myself to sleep about the one good burst secondary, Akjagara. The first nerf killed it already... and they hit it again... again... and again...

Meanwhile there's FAR worse offenders...

 

(EDIT, not counting Sicarus P due to (too) long reload, subpar mag size, RoF just low enough to be annoying and horrible ammo efficiency)

Edited by Sdric

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1 hour ago, ShortCat said:
23 hours ago, DebrisFlow said:

The ability to belittle a comment is insignificant next to the power of the Force…of us complaining togheter.

"Apes! Together! Strong!"

23 hours ago, DebrisFlow said:

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Great faith in human idiocy I have.

My aim was to make an auto-ironic Star Wars meme, i'm sorry you didn't get it, maybe i'm too old for giving out these references. I was expecting you to answer with something on the line "Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways...blablabla [gets chocked]". 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Monolake said:

They use 'internal rankings'  see it in the previous riven changes workshop posts like I said.

The internal ranking is literally a ranking on usage of weapons, imagine a percantage based on millions of players around thw world, that need a system to beign created and beign usable, because they are not going to look on the forums, reddit or youtube to say "oh I see, that's what people are using the most". That's an "internal ranking", so thanks for making the point more valid. if you have more info on "the myth", put it on here, because I'm still waiting for that info "past workshops" that you've said.

In fact, please, READ what the wiki says, i'm gonna mark it for you because obviously you didn't read it at all:

"The randomized attributes for Riven mods are affected by Disposition, a modifier provided by the system that collates the usage popularity of a given weapon across the entire player base. Disposition strength controls the range of the attributes available for each weapon."

That's the "internal ranking system".

Edited by xHeretic

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Posted (edited)
Quote

But it's not. As I said before, the vast majority of meta weapons are hands down better even without rivens than non-meta with rivens. Some are even better than other meta weapons with rivens, because the rivens in question were nerfed to the ground(e.g. Fulmin vs Arca Plasmor). And no riven will ever fix bad weapons, broken weapons or weapons with outright bad mechanics, like secondary rocket launchers.

Sadly this "balance" I mentioned goes rather into the usage than the quality of the weapon, and I do have to half-agree with you with the whole "there's no such balance in MR related to the real stats of a weapon after being tested", just like the nerf the Vulkar got in April or the nerf of the Gorgon in July. Though...

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What do we have available at MR7? I'm talking about semi autos only.

Yeah, there's the Vaykor Marelok, which I agree it is lame, but what about the Magnus? The Vasto Prime (if you got the platinum or the patience for it to be back as a vault of course)? Both of these not only have higher DPS than the Vaykor Marelok, they also got a considerably higher disposition (Magnus is itself on the top, yet the thing is just ignored by its "massive, non remediable recoil", even if with a well built riven you barely need to land more than 1 shot), which means you're not stuck with those semi-auto weapons. The akimbo versions after aren't really worth mentioning considering they do land back into your point. More bullets and a bit more fire rate in exchange of accuracy isn't really a way to say they deserve to be in such high position. Perhaps a level or two it's fine, not like the Aklex Prime. Won't get into other trigger types because I'll be repeating the same thing: There a lot of options, choose the ones that after you test them they are worth your time, and yes, there's really lame weapons in there as well, but you can avoid those after you make your choices.

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Same situation is with primaries like Ignis Wraith(MR9), Amprex(MR10) and Synapse(MR11). While Synapse has sky high crit chance it's clunky, so no one uses it using Amprex or Ignis W instead

I have to disagree here. Just because you can't hit multiple targets in one shot makes a weapon "clunky", there's punch through if that disturbs you, which highly benefits the Synapse since it has 27 meters of reach, 9 more than the Amprex, which got 18 meters. I would even dare to say that both weapons work in pretty different ways rather than just deeming as clunky a weapon with a slightly lower base damage and no base multiple target hitting system, yet you start this with the semi-automatic example of the secondaries. "No one uses it" is quite exaggerated of you, since the Synapse is a weapon that I love to use, moreso with a nice built riven (since, atm, the discussion here surrounds rivens, not much the whole MR ranking reasoning, but I do have to agree and disagree with your points). We could separate them into two spots: continuous damage weapons that got a multiple target effect in their primary shot, and those that doesn't have such thing, like the Quanta Vandal, but this one is worth to be analyzed, unless you find all those continuous damage weapons without a "multiple target damage" as clunky.

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Then there're launchers. We have Penta(MR6), Tonkor(MR5), Zarr(MR7) and then we have our "beloved" Ogris(MR9). And if you're bold enough you can include Lenz(MR8) to this list as well. Those are better launchers than the Ogris, yet that have lower MR cap.

This is something I can kinda agree as well. A launcher user (which must be a really rare sight) would be extremely disappointed with the real DPS of the Ogris, and indeed, the Ogris is placed on a rather odd spot considering that real DPS capacity it has, which can be even lower than the launcher that requires less MR: The Torid. Though, through the time, the Ogris has been subject of a lot of adjustments, and I would need to test it again for me to say that my argument about it is valid

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As for the weapons you've mentioned it's a matter of the approach. Your is of the type "it doesn't hurt me, so whatever, use something else".

You assume the changes won't affect me since I talked that way about it, but I'm a Rubico user myself, and I even use it out of the plains for mere fun, and even with all the nerfs over my MS+CD+Heat-InfestedDmg riven I still use it because its not like they changed their mechanics, it is still a lovely weapon with or without the riven, same goes for the Rattleguts, which I built for crit, and even with the nerfs is a really powerful and fun weapon to use, for me at least. I stated I'm not much of a fan of the Tiberon but I got a riven for it as well, however, I'd rather stick to my Latron or my Synapse (even if there's a range limit). Akjagara? Forma'ed the regular ones 6 times, and when they were kinda crappy I had my fun, and I still have it either I use the prime ones or the regular ones. I got all the weapons on the list, for most of them I got a riven as well (From the 26 affected weapons this round, there's 12 I got no riven for, mostly for lack of interest, like the Fulmin, the Nagantaka, the Catchmoon, the Twin Grakatas or the Cyanex), all obtained either with platinum or from sorties. You, on the other hand, already mentioned that you got no Rubico or Tiberon riven, and got different interests in each, so I don't really understand your rant if you're less affected than me by the whole issue.

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What if I don't want to use something else?

Up to you. I already stated this pretty well: do your own research and adapt yourself. If you go for the most used weapons be aware of the future consequences. The team already stated that there will be changes each month for all the rivens. You already know well enough their tendencies to see how they shall modify them, so crying over the spilled milk shouldn't be a thing when you knew about it.

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Also, while we're at it, as far as Eidolon hunt is concerned rivenless Rubico P still more preferable than rivened Vulcar Wraith

True, but that's just because people follow the tendencies. If they knew better, including you, there's "Lasting Purity". I'll let you dive in that one if it picks your interests. Me? Well, I love my Vulkar Wraith, so I'll stick to it for Eidolons, as the Vectis Prime and Lanka users will do as well with their weapon of choice. Each one with their own preferences, unless you're trying to force everyone to think otherwise just because you follow the masses, which is senseless, moreso if you never tried more than one option (either if you did try or if you didn't and how you tried them, you know what you have done so far more than I will know about yourself, or anyone else here), but I'll repeat this over and over again: Each one shall make their own research and adapt themselves to their own tastes.

Edited by Zinnfolie
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