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[DE]Connor

October 2019 Riven Disposition Updates

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1 minute ago, Komodo_Saurian said:

All rivens roll the same base numbers, they are just multiplied by the disposition of the specific weapon. So yes, old rivens are changed retroactively.

I stand corrected, but in my mind its still irrelevant, I havent seen the absolute worst riven disposition in practice yet i dont think but i can say that the stat buff on my rubico prime is still nice. its still a buff beyond base stats. and frankly the base stats, and weapon handling were enough to keep it as popular as it is. and if the riven disposition ever really gets that bad (which i dont know if it can) I'll just stop using a riven on it and adjust my build accordingly. Rivens werent meant to be mandatory parts of peoples builds for this exact reason.

 

the whole point of rivens was to balance out the field at the levels with a riven in play. unpopular weapons would get a shot at better stats to bring them in line with weapons that already were exceptional. in the case of fulmin and rubico i personally think that the 'nerf' is well deserved. both weapons perform exceptionally well without a riven for just about any level of content. so why should their disposition be higher? especially when their power is calling players to flock to them in droves. I wont say that the system is flawless but it is what it is, considering these comments are 90% "you nerfed my op weapon I hate it." I am also seeing very few actual suggestions as to how to improve disposition adjustments. we also dont Have the same game information logged to review as DE does.

 

as for why nerfing them rather than buffing the lesser used ones? well as this list shows buffs were distributed so that argument is a little flawed there, but the short answer is Warframe already has a problem with power creep. a problem made worse by the indefinite delay/cancellation of damage 2.0 along with the less-than-ideal enemy scaling that many have been complaining about for years now, also buffs are flags to lead players to play weapon z. rather than trying weapons B through G to see what ones they actually like. Hystrix was overlooked for quite a while for example but ive noticed its popularity rise relatively recently. more than ive seen it rise for quite some time. but i cant say my experience mirrors the game as a whole. my region, my clan, my alliance, and my random pubs are not the same as others.

5 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

It shouldn't be about usage anymore... DE did say they're were using a 'baseline' and realistically if the rubico is affected the others main snipers should be as well.

I dont disagree, but the question is are the other main snipers in need of further nerfs or are they alright where they are? lanka got nerfed halfway to the ground before rubico prime came along. and frankly its a way less pleasant weapon to actually use.

 based off of my experience, i would say that the other snipers are more or less in an acceptable place for this round, i see them quite rarely in others hands, and no particular ones often enough to warrant a pattern of favoritism. especially considering the number who simply dont like snipers and how they handle or how unweildy they can be for close quarter missions or inefficient for more horde-y runs. snipers are strong sure, but generally I only see them used when there's a heavy to take down. which is the point of the weapon class to begin with.

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i had a plasmor riven that did everything i wanted in a plasmor riven, but it got nerfed yet again, i'm just gonna dissolve it, this ain't worth my time. i don't use the weapon all that much anyway. Also feeling that with the catchmoon. #*!% this S#&$ i'm out.

 

truth be told though i understand why it's happening, i do think it's a little unfair though that some other things aren't getting buffs if these are getting nerfed, sobek and vulkar come to mind for example

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13 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

it's not I sold mine before these changes because it already felt useless 8v

I traded one for a nagantaka riven (the weapon is virtually useless but I love it, so yaaay). And I have one with PFS I actually use - but it is 3 positives, so the stats are pretty much useless now xD Still better than the base PFS mod, but the damage is the same as with a Hollow Point when shooting closeby enemies. I'm just really glad I didn't buy one of these.

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12 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

It shouldn't be about usage anymore... DE did say they're were using a 'baseline' and realistically if the rubico is affected the others main snipers should be as well.

They have been lol this is the one time they didnt get a nerf  2 out of 3 isnt singling out Rubico lol they aren't wrong. 

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Funny how they keep nerfing S#&$ weapons just becaust starchart casuls use them en masse

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Lul, they still don't realize that buffing rivens for guns with low bases stats won't fix the fact they have low base stats. And nerfing things like catchmoon is irrelevant because people use it for the AoE mechanic

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, (XB1)AFutureCorruptX said:

Now if the majority of the community would just get creative and try different weapons now and then these changes wouldn't suck so bad 🙃

Well, if they didn't spend all their time nerfing things instead of making S#&$ty weapons better, maybe we wouldn't be in this predicament in the first place.

Edited by Komodo_Saurian
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@[DE]Connor Once again, you show your folly or flagrant disregard for actual stats. Pyrana nerfed? Rattleguts nerfed? As many have already stated, the majority of people right use now the Catchmoon, so why nerf these two weapons? That makes no damn sense. Nerfing the Zhuge the day Wukong Prime Access goes away is a slap in the face to people who bought the package. You're outright saying "Well, this weapon isn't going to bring us any money now, time to nerf it and move onto the next". Again, give us REASONS. Why are you making these changes, both good and bad? Many of us will say some of these changes are needed, because the weapons in question are strong enough without a riven, or needs the help of a riven. But when you make these odd changes, you leave us confused and angry.

 

Conner, I'm challenging you to do some livestreams where all you do is test rivens. Do some hour long survivals, do some Infested Emissary, do some Arbitrations. Go gather some meaningful data instead of looking at popularity of x weapon in y mission type. You may be surprised at how weapons you thought were really powerful actually preform in a broader use case.

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1 hour ago, Aldain said:

They'd have to remove it at this point.

It's not even that great. It's a sloooooowwwww 1 pellet shotgun with AOE... big whoop.

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6 minutes ago, Desdemona-XI said:

I stand corrected, but in my mind its still irrelevant, I havent seen the absolute worst riven disposition in practice yet i dont think but i can say that the stat buff on my rubico prime is still nice. its still a buff beyond base stats. and frankly the base stats, and weapon handling were enough to keep it as popular as it is. and if the riven disposition ever really gets that bad (which i dont know if it can) I'll just stop using a riven on it and adjust my build accordingly. Rivens werent meant to be mandatory parts of peoples builds for this exact reason.

 

the whole point of rivens was to balance out the field at the levels with a riven in play. unpopular weapons would get a shot at better stats to bring them in line with weapons that already were exceptional. in the case of fulmin and rubico i personally think that the 'nerf' is well deserved. both weapons perform exceptionally well without a riven for just about any level of content. so why should their disposition be higher? especially when their power is calling players to flock to them in droves. I wont say that the system is flawless but it is what it is, considering these comments are 90% "you nerfed my op weapon I hate it." I am also seeing very few actual suggestions as to how to improve disposition adjustments. we also dont Have the same game information logged to review as DE does.

 

as for why nerfing them rather than buffing the lesser used ones? well as this list shows buffs were distributed so that argument is a little flawed there, but the short answer is Warframe already has a problem with power creep. a problem made worse by the indefinite delay/cancellation of damage 2.0 along with the less-than-ideal enemy scaling that many have been complaining about for years now, also buffs are flags to lead players to play weapon z. rather than trying weapons B through G to see what ones they actually like. Hystrix was overlooked for quite a while for example but ive noticed its popularity rise relatively recently. more than ive seen it rise for quite some time. but i cant say my experience mirrors the game as a whole. my region, my clan, my alliance, and my random pubs are not the same as others.

I dont disagree, but the question is are the other main snipers in need of further nerfs or are they alright where they are? lanka got nerfed halfway to the ground before rubico prime came along. and frankly its a way less pleasant weapon to actually use.

 based off of my experience, i would say that the other snipers are more or less in an acceptable place for this round, i see them quite rarely in others hands, and no particular ones often enough to warrant a pattern of favoritism. especially considering the number who simply dont like snipers and how they handle or how unweildy they can be for close quarter missions or inefficient for more horde-y runs. snipers are strong sure, but generally I only see them used when there's a heavy to take down. which is the point of the weapon class to begin with.

you give good arguments here, and i can understand this. I could see nerfs to things like rubico and plasmor a mile away. but then how do you explain a cyanex nerf? maybe i'm the only one who will complain on this, but what grounds did they have to drop that? every youtuber i saw review it gave it hate. I've never seen another player use it. Rivens for it were already dirt cheap. I was told the gimmick could attract newer players, but most will stop using it, as proved by the fact that i've never seen another player use it, and besides, most of the newer players who use the cyanex for that time aren't at a level where they can easily obtain a riven for it. yes, they are at the mr to use rivens, but they don't have the time and energy to invest in this when there are so many easier things out there. afaik, they shouldn't have any grounds to nerf this, it is neither op nor widely used, so my question then is, what are the actual criteria they use? and can we have transparency on weapon stats, at least as far as usage? can't ask for a datamine on that, even if that was still a thing people widely did. I can agree that the system is mostly fine, but I would like a little more transparency with things like that that have no apparent reason to take a hit. 

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Rubico/Prime dispo. nerfed FOUR times in a roll. I and friends sold all 3+1s long time ago knowing they will become worthless. 

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There's plenty of great weapons that havent been touched by nerfs or widely used by the community. The real  problem is its easier to just mindlessly blast with catchmoon than aim a pandero or knell 

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i have a strange relationship with rivens, i dont care much about them, but if i get one for a interesting silly weapon i may build it around the mod, Twin GRakata, Mios Hema 😄  EVen Rabvee turned out to be a fun thing on a long stick(i like long stick weapons) with an attack speed and silly range riven. I even use ARgonak from time to time, the riven i have for it helps  aplenty :-)

(sillier the weapon the funnier the riven i say!)

 

AM not too sad these rivens above get balanced, i shrug and move on, i dont take the videogame too seriously, i buy the kuva from nightwave and move on :-)

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vor 50 Minuten schrieb EtherealSlasher:

Please stop nerfing rivens based on usage and actually test to see if the weapon is trivializing the game with a riven equipped.

 

 

I find it amusing that you think DE would ever playtest their own game.

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You players know they split the threads because they will ignore the comments here, right?

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4 minutes ago, (XB1)AFutureCorruptX said:

There's plenty of great weapons that havent been touched by nerfs or widely used by the community. The real  problem is its easier to just mindlessly blast with catchmoon than aim a pandero or knell 

Hey now, that would require them to get good ;D

But i agree, PAndero and knell are great!

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Oh man DE did the thing they originally set out to do, slacked off at doing, got constant complaints that they weren't doing, and now have put forth the dedication to keep doing it like people wanted.

SurprisedPikachu.png

 

Seriously people Rivens were meant to always change like this and many people wanted them to keep up with it. If anyone doesn't like it then don't use them or at least stop putting so much stock into them yourselves. Rivens don't even have a practical use for anything the game has on offer.

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4 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Hail Tenno!

With a new Prime Access comes another set of Riven balance tweaks! These changes should be live across all platforms shortly - full details below:


PRIMARIES

  Hide contents

Arca Plasmor: 0.6->0.55
Fulmin: 1->0.8

Javlok: 1.2->1.25
Latron: 1.25->1.3
Nagantaka: 1.1->1.2
Quanta: 1.25->1.35

Rubico: 0.7->0.65
Simulor: 1->1.1
Tiberon: 0.95->0.85
Tonkor: 1.15->1.3
Zhuge: 1.25->1.15


SECONDARIES

  Hide contents

Akjagara: 1.05->0.9
Ballistica: 1.05->1.1
Brakk: 1.2->1.25

Catchmoon: 0.6->0.5
Cyanex: 1->0.85

Gammacor: 0.9->0.95
Knell: 1.15->1.2
Lex: 0.9->1.05
Marelok: 0.9->0.95

Pyrana: 0.7->0.65
Rattleguts: 0.8->0.75

Sonicor: 0.9->1
Spira: 1.1->1.15

Tombfinger: 0.75->0.7
Twin Grakatas: 1.05->1.1

 

Once again, there are even fewer changes this round than our last wave of changes in July. Melee 3.0 changes are still in the pipeline, so we’ll have to wait a bit longer before those changes commence. 

Thanks for reading!

Rivens were the sustainable endgame for years.
I bet it was the only reason for a bunch of players to come back to the game, farm kuva and sink their time and effort to their hard earned rivens.
Since the recent nerfs I see less interest in rivens from players.
These days the only things keep up the trading are the new additions' and buffed weapons riven (not the nerfed ones).
With the recent changes, most of these rivens are worse than a basic mod available.

I'd like to leave a memo about the insane amount of platinum ( and probably revenue for the developers) going to get lost* by killing this part of the game,
No player will be stupid enough to pay for something that wont keep its "value".

*From the wiki: " One platinum is equal to 6.7 cents or 0.067 dollars (US Currency) / 5.7 pence or 0.057 pounds (UK / British currency). "
This means a '900 platinum' riven's price is roughly a AAA 60$ game's price

Before someone quotes me as a "Salt Demon",( I'd like to note that probably most of the players mentioned before can do high level content without the need of riven) I think rivens are not necessary for weapons. They're not gamebreaking either, because the game is too casual, there's nothing to break.

I saw a recent video from a partner mentioning that his ~1000 member alliance had 3 online during "rush hour".
Most of my clanmates went missing, the few that had their riven business are now inactive as well.
I consider this as the last nail in the coffin of my clan (and for other ingame communities).
On behalf of 26 million registered loser, this number going to become the number of ghost players.

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1 hour ago, Rachnera said:

they're completely busted, what are you complaining about
everyone and their mom uses a catchmoon

thats a pretty bold statement.  i dont use kitguns at all, as my secondaries are all plenty powerful as is.  

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Just now, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

thats a pretty bold statement.  i dont use kitguns at all, as my secondaries are all plenty powerful as is.  

Still not completely outrageous claims tho. A vast majority of players do. But hey congrats on playing creatively, here's a bada** point. 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Desdemona-XI said:

the whole point of rivens was to balance out the field at the levels with a riven in play. unpopular weapons would get a shot at better stats to bring them in line with weapons that already were exceptional. in the case of fulmin and rubico i personally think that the 'nerf' is well deserved. both weapons perform exceptionally well without a riven for just about any level of content. so why should their disposition be higher? especially when their power is calling players to flock to them in droves. I wont say that the system is flawless but it is what it is, considering these comments are 90% "you nerfed my op weapon I hate it." I am also seeing very few actual suggestions as to how to improve disposition adjustments. we also dont Have the same game information logged to review as DE does.

Bad weapons can't be saved by rivens because they have bad base stats. 

One of my favourite weapons have always been the Viper and its Wraith version. Even with a 5 star riven disposition and a mathematically perfect riven installed they are worse than rivenless kitguns.

Edited by Komodo_Saurian
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Just now, (XB1)AFutureCorruptX said:

Still not completely outrageous claims tho. A vast majority of players do. But hey congrats on playing creatively, here's a bada** point. 

thanks? i think?  

 

none of my warframes even use the same loadout of weapons.  i like changing my playstyle alongside the warframe.   my ash uses the dread (thank you ash passive) aklex prime and nikana prime.  none of my other warframes use these 3 weapons

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As crappy as the usage based system is and should be revised the best thing to do right now since that most likely won't be changed any time soon is branch away from these easy to use meta build from time to time and get freaky with how many other weapons there are. 

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I wonder when we'll reach the point where DE admits rivens were a mistake to make in the first place.  Game would be better off without rivens.  

You can't equate platinum to real world money.  I have 25K plat.  Know how much money I've spent on this game?  A prime accessories here and there, but not many I think maybe 3 or 4 at the $60 price for new accessories and 1 or 2 for the unvaulted accessory packs that are far less then new accessories.  

Rivens are not endgame.  There is no endgame.  If DE wanted endgame they would put a node on the star chart that started at level 2000 enemies, but people would complain about it being 'too hard' even though it really wouldn't be difficult for people who knew how to mod.  

For anyone to be this blind after this many dispo changes is beyond me.  They said they would start doing dispo changes with prime access what was it 9 months ago?  If you don't like the volatility of rivens, don't deal with them plain and simple.  That's what I do since they started doing changes to dispo's.  You don't need rivens to play this game.  People think because rivens are out there they need them for their weapon, but that's simply false.  If you want to push a weapon as far as it can go yeah you probably need a riven for it, but that's a personal problem if you want a riven for, say, sicarus with cc, cd, multishot, -impact.  Glad my sicarus riven didn't get nerfed, not as many people use it because catchmoon is for all intents and purposes the easy button.  Shoot it at a crowd and watch the crowd die.  Easy.  Kitguns and zaws are broken, plain and simple.  Especially when they get arcanes on them that push them even farther then normal weapons like sicarus prime, knell, pandero, etc. etc.

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