Jump to content
[DE]Connor

October 2019 Riven Disposition Updates

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

If only we had primed damage, multishot, crit chance/damage and elemental mods (primed dual stats anyone?) available for all the weapons, I personally would not care about rivens at all at that point.

The primed mod selection for rifles and damage is especially bad, there is basically just primed cryo rounds which is not the most awesome mod in my opinion. Primed split chamber would be nice to have.

As for the riven nerfs and buffs? It is quite understandable to see most of the aoe weapons getting the nerf by just going to play any game in public, especially arbitration. It is simply so much easier to kill the arby drones with an aoe weapon than with something else (excluding melee) and you will see a lot of these weapons being used.

Edited by Renzo
  • Like 1
  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KeineKunst said:

or you can use Rivens as intended: Giving underused weapons a chance to shine.

What a pity they're still useless garbage regardless.

Funny that, almost as if people don't use them because they're either boring or unsatisfying. But people can't possibly have already considered using alternative,. I'm glad you've pointed this out, finally people will be able to see how valuable guns like the Kraken and Stugg are.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

how about you stop nerfing rubico riven without any god damn reason? they are used for one thing, and one thing only. ( in the crushing majority, the 2-3 players that use them in normal mission doesn't count ), and it's eidolon hunting. is it this hard to take this into account? looks like it, because if it was actually taken into account, there wouldn't be any riven nerf. it should be at a neutral dispo and never change, period. you know why snipers are used this much for eidolons? because it's the best weapon for this that won't make it painfully slow to kill one. and it's what people looking to do serious hunting do. yet you somehow can't get that. what is even the point of nerfing rubico, except for the whole sake of nerfing, at that point?

( Note that i am not mad myself, as i have quit hunting after being done with all the waybounds, but i'm extremely disapointed in DE which again doesn't understand he shouldn't nerf sniper rivens. at all. ever. they're like one of the less used weapons in normal game missions... or at this point, they could just rip the #*!%ing bandaid off from the get go and directly put rubico at the lowest disposition, and we're done with it. that's what's going to happen anyway, if they continue to not listen to this. )

 

On a more personal note, because i actually have a riven for it : tiberon nerf ? again? what the #*!%? DE, go play 10 mission in a row, then go tell me how many god damn players use this. or if not even, 20, 30, or even 50 missions. then tell me how many players actually used the tiberon.

that's stupid.

 

By the way, no buff to Soma Prime? you're joking right? or did it slipped out of your mind again? You know, the prime rifle that almost no one uses anymore, is clearly behind other rifles, and yet got nothing.

Edited by mikakor
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@[DE]Connor  Is it possible that we could see the full list of criteria used to evaluate whether a riven should be changed? It's hard for me to believe that this is based on usage alone, or else we would likely be seeing buffs to things like the exergis. If it is, then I'd really like to see some sort of chart with the actual usage stats for the weapons being changed. Similarly ,its hard for me to believe that power is the only other other factor in determining this. The nagantaka is an absurd weapon, and has done far more damage than the zhuge prime since the day the zhuge was released, and i could understand some leeway given for handling differences that would likely account for the difference in popularity, but for it to be buffed so far apart from the zhuge is a bit strange to me. Another example from this patch is the cyanex. I have not once seen someone other than me use the weapon after the first few days of it being out, so i doubt the usage statistics would support it. It is also not super powerful, and i have not seen a positive review for it on youtube yet, and I mostly watch people who are partnered, so I'm sure you have noticed that. In that case, why did it get nerfed? What criteria said that it was a candidate for that? Things like this are quite confusing. I can see how things like the plasmor and rubico are suspect for breaking the game with higher dispos, but how is the cyanex suspect of this, and how is the nagantaka not? I really would just like some sort of way to figure out what the thought process you guys have when evaluating this is so that maybe I could understand a little better. I'm sure a lot of players would agree as well. Thank you for reading this, and the great game, and I hope you can help us in the future.

Edited by (PS4)Guardian_Trinity
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

They're not dumb though, they do this to stir the market.

That's only the case when there's a flow of new weapons that challenge the current "kings". As it is nothing we have atm can even come close to performing on the same level as Kitguns. So it does nothing for the market in the long term, because people aren't going to pay a lot of plat for weapons with bad base stats. As others here have said already, for many secondaries even a meta-riven build can't compete with a rivenless kitgun. This isn't stirring or breathing new life into the market, it's strangling one of the only reasons the market exists in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

It's not bold at all. You're one person saying you dont use them, therefore it's not popular. Just trying to help clear that up. 

They are everywhere, you just personally dont use them and that's ok.

very true, its what i get for not playing public, i either go solo or play with my brother, and he only uses a kitgun on one frame

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was already unable to sell cc/cd catchmoons for as little as below 500 plat, thanks for gutting it when it was already weak in both value and in-game use.

Also thanks for compeltely ruining rubico. 🙂

 

Worst day in warframe by far: release the most boring prime yet with filler accessories and lame weapon/companion, then nerf the rivens that needed no change whatsoever. Can u just give us new war and railjack already?

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Riven tiberon was already made worse than riven stradavar. There was no reason to nerf it further.

It's unethical to release new weapons with 1.0 normal dispositions knowing they'll be nerfed.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad I sold my Rubico riven. They're getting to be borderline useless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, ToaTamatu said:

Was already unable to sell cc/cd catchmoons for as little as below 500 plat, thanks for gutting it when it was already weak in both value and in-game use.

Also thanks for compeltely ruining rubico. 🙂

 

Worst day in warframe by far: release the most boring prime yet with filler accessories and lame weapon/companion, then nerf the rivens that needed no change whatsoever. Can u just give us new war and railjack already?

Welcome to a free market. You love the pros but cant handle the cons.

  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Afterburner_X said:

Oh yeah, let's watch this...

Not touching Vectis. That makes me happy.

Everything as expected: Arca Plasmor, Fulmin, Tiberon, Kitguns and so on. But wait... Zhuge? 

I don't think that low dispositions like 0,5-0,6 should be a thing. The stats are so bad that a normal mod isn't much worse than the actual Riven. I think my Catchmoon Riven has now like +100% damage and +40% critical damage. Not a big deal, but it feels weird if a Riven has not really higher stats than a normal mod. If you get a Catchmoon Riven from Sortie it's more like a normal Augur Pact mod now. 

A super high disposition for special weapons like the Stug would also be nice. Make Stug great again. I wonder if the Stug would be good with a 3,0 like Riven disposition... Maybe still bad.

I was surprised with the Arca Plasmor. Everyone considers it S#&$ now and never uses it, yet it get's dropped. I have never seen anyone using the Tiberon for the last 6 months, but it still gets dropped. The Fulmin is as expected, it will continue to lose .2 every change until it hits the bottom, i'll sell my riven before next Prime Release for the mandatory 2000 plat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Neightrix said:

Riven tiberon was already made worse than riven stradavar. There was no reason to nerf it further.

It's unethical to release new weapons with 1.0 normal dispositions knowing they'll be nerfed.

I have never seen anyone use the Tiberon. Even i use the Stradavar instead of it now and it still gets the nerf.

If they don't put the disposition at 1.0 when starting, no one would be able to sell their rivens for thousands of plat.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Welcome to a free market. You love the pros but cant handle the cons.

"Free market"
Thanks for making me laugh man. 😄

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

So keep your mouth shut unless you join the rage party? Their opinion isn't less viable. Telling someone online to shut up just makes you look like one of the meta slaves angry that you read that response.

No, keeping your mouth shut is for anyone who disregards any criticism as a "rage party". Their opinion is less viable because there's nothing else to it other than "Huuurrr, dey mad". It's not productive. It's not clever. 

Also, implying that being angry is a bad thing or somehow lessens the credibility of an argument. Neither is true. Nerfing the meta weapons isn't going to make people use other guns, because they're bad to begin with, so the good weapons are getting their potential penalised simply because other ones can't keep up. DE should look at buffing other weapons instead of giving us something strong and then saying "wait, that's a bit too strong... Still too strong... A biiiiiitttt more." What incentive is there to engage with this part of the game if the time and effort put into farming is just going to be undermined when the item in question becomes "too good" or "too popular"? At this point I agree with the "just get rid of them" notion.

There are very valid reasons to be annoyed, yet aside from a few, the "anti-meta" opinion camp just seems to be spamming "Meta tears lmao" and providing nothing useful to the discussion.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Melee 3.0 changes are still in the pipeline, so we’ll have to wait a bit longer before those changes commence.

 

8 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

a bit longer

 

That's one very long bit already. >_>

8 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Catchmoon: 0.6->0.5

I wonder why it haven't started from this. That was obvious from the day it were released.

Will it break through the bottom and reach 0.4 in the next 3 months, though?

Will it be the very first gun in the game with a zero riven disposition? A negative one?

Edited by lainverse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, TyrannisPax said:

" What incentive is there to engage with this part of the game if the time and effort put into farming is just going to be undermined when the item in question becomes "too good" or "too popular"?

this is actually the problem with rivens

I myself have a 120 riven cap, but if I can choose to have rivens for all the good(meta) weapons OR for all the garbage weapons and still have a few slots for rolling and selling rivens (or have duplicates for different builds) then anyone would go for the good(meta) weapons.

Why?

Simple, if I myself and all others start using those utter garbage weapons because of insane dispositions(looking at the Scoliac vs Atterax), then those weapons will be abused to no end and sooner or later, you can guess it, those rivens will become complete and utter garbage too and with them, the weapons will go back to their previous state: garbage

and lets be honest, if rivens should have fixed the problem of certain weapons never being used, since rivens work for all variations of them, who in their right mind is ever going to use a Burston, if there is a Burston Prime (/psychomode on) WITH BETTER STATS THAT USES EXACTLY THE SAME RIVEN? WHO DOES THAT?!?!!!! NO ONE!!!!

so every weapon that has a Prime or Vandal or Wraith variant IS NEVER GOING TO BE USED AND COUNTS AS MASTERY FODDER FOREVER! RIVENS DO NOTHING AT ALL TO CHANGE THAT!!! NOTHINGGGGGG!!!! AAAAAA

/psychomode off

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

this is actually the problem with rivens

I myself have a 120 riven cap, but if I can choose to have rivens for all the good(meta) weapons OR for all the garbage weapons and still have a few slots for rolling and selling rivens (or have duplicates for different builds) then anyone would go for the good(meta) weapons.

Why?

Simple, if I myself and all others start using those utter garbage weapons because of insane dispositions(looking at the Scoliac vs Atterax), then those weapons will be abused to no end and sooner or later, you can guess it, those rivens will become complete and utter garbage too and with them, the weapons will go back to their previous state: garbage

and lets be honest, if rivens should have fixed the problem of certain weapons never being used, since rivens work for all variations of them, who in their right mind is ever going to use a Burston, if there is a Burston Prime (/psychomode on) WITH BETTER STATS THAT USES EXACTLY THE SAME RIVEN? WHO DOES THAT?!?!!!! NO ONE!!!!

so every weapon that has a Prime or Vandal or Wraith variant IS NEVER GOING TO BE USED AND COUNTS AS MASTERY FODDER FOREVER! RIVENS DO NOTHING AT ALL TO CHANGE THAT!!! NOTHINGGGGGG!!!! AAAAAA

/psychomode off

Precisely. Changing the stats of rivens defeats the point of having them in the first place. DE needs to wisen up to the fact that some weapons are just going to be better than others. They can't balance this out with constant riven changes unless they want to make all weapons have the same base stats. Which also defeats the point of rivens as well!

Edited by TyrannisPax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, IceBen said:

Is it even worth it to use a catchmoon riven anymore?

I still get 100.2% Critical Chance with Primed Pistol Gambit and my Riven.

But when they nerf the Disposition to 0.3 next time (new category for Catchmoon only) it will probably be time to replace it with an elemental mod.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my rant about riven disposition changes.   

It's not about the specific nerfs.  I understand weapons like fulmin and catchmoon.  Very popular.

But let's talk about what rivens do:  they add damage.  

Why are weapons popular?  Damage? partly.  Just.  But also gameplay. 

  • The fulmin is a silenced shotgun and a zero recoil aim bot in full auto.  
  • The Catchmoon has a godly hitbox, infinity punchthru, and infinite ammo.

Why don't people use the Quanta?  I have a godly riven for it +DAM/+CC.  It's sweet.  Thanks for the buff.  Still won't use it.  It's a very unsatisfying gun.  Know why?  It's WEAK.  And I'm not talking damage.  It feels like I'm doing cross-stitch with a tiny needle tracing through a pattern.

With the fulmin, it sounds awesome and feels awesome.  When I'm in full auto, I feel like Arnold S. in Predator cutting down a forest.  With the Catchmoon, when I'm emptying a clip down a hallway, it feels powerful to just strip an entire mob into nothing as wave after wave of energy tears through mobs.  I want to yell and scream with the exhalation of death dealing in an epic fashion.  But I don't yell.  Not often.

So you nerf popular gun damage and buff unpopular gun damage to force players into using unpopular guns more.  That's fine, but what you're doing is hurting the overall gaming experience.   Destiny 2 arrives free to play tomorrow.  Care to guess where they have you beat?  Weapon experience.   Rocket launchers go KABOOOOM!  Shotguns are epic blasts.  Machine guns sound like 50 cals ripping through enemies.  

I love the Destiny fight experience mostly because of the immersion into power.  I love warframe for a myriad of other reasons.  But your riven dispositions are continually pushing playings into cross stitching and quilting parties.  

My suggestion?  If you want to push players into diversity, spend a little more time making the weapons sound and feel good.  When I first heard the fulmin, I thought "holy ****, what is that epic sounding machine gun going off?".   But then we switch over to the Akjag or Magnus, and we find ourselves in the toy aisle at WalMart. The guns sound like toys.  I don't care if it does 1500 Corrosive damage.  <Plink><Plink> is a horrible gaming experience.

mr feeny nerf gun GIF

Why can't the guns sound like guns?  Why can't revolvers sound like Destiny?  Or Red Dead?  Or even Borderlands.   Why can't we have KABLAM!?

My favorite handgun is the Bolto.  Riven disposition is good, so it's manageable, but I still prefer using it cause it sounds so cool.  I love the the deep thrumming it makes with every shot.  (Not to tangent, but why do they sound worse as they get better?  Bolto sounds awesome.  Telos ... meh.  Akbolto Prime sounds awful.   Why did you nerf the sound???)

 

Imagine if you came out with updates for existing weapons and made them sound *awesome*.  Would I really be alone in using them?  So much of the community is immersed in FashionFrame, am I to believe that I'm the only one who can both see and hear?   Beyond wanting my frame to look good, I want my gun to sound good.

I think diversity in the game could be achieved with some focus on sound buffs rather than just damage.

 

Also, why not take augments to the next level and release weapon specific arcanes.  Want people to use the vulkar?  Release a weapon specific arcane that speeds up reload speed 3x on headshot.  Don't make it a mod.  It needs all the mod slots it can get to compete with Ruby.  I love the syndicate mods.  But they still take up a mod slot on weapons that already lack in damage.  If you want syndicate augments to improve diversity, don't eat a mod slot.  Someone else suggested an augment slot for weapons.  Same as arcane slot essentially.

 

Summary:

The problem with weapon diversity in the game is not just damage.  Most guns just suck.   They're weak, sissy sounding toys that leave game immersion lacking. 

 

  • Like 1
  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets be honest... DE would have taken the fulmin straight to 0.5 if it wasn't against their own "rules."
Which i used to think was nothing got nerfed or buffed more than 0.1 at a time.

The Zhuge got nerfed too...
But look at the bright side.. the Nagantaka got buffed.... Are you freakin kididng me? The Nagantaka is just a bigger, uglier, worse version of the zhuge.
I don't even use the zhuge that much, i just saw this and thought that DE was just messing with us at this point.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A bunch of these seem outdated.  Sure zhuge got a usage uptick bc of the recent prime, but I already don't see anyone using it and riven prices are down to fodder levels again.  Some pointless hits to me here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, KadetJunior said:

i have a strange relationship with rivens, i dont care much about them, but if i get one for a interesting silly weapon i may build it around the mod, Twin GRakata, Mios Hema 😄  EVen Rabvee turned out to be a fun thing on a long stick(i like long stick weapons) with an attack speed and silly range riven. I even use ARgonak from time to time, the riven i have for it helps  aplenty 🙂

(sillier the weapon the funnier the riven i say!)

 

AM not too sad these rivens above get balanced, i shrug and move on, i dont take the videogame too seriously, i buy the kuva from nightwave and move on 🙂

I’m exactly the same way. Built a Dehtat spear Zaw just to try out the riven. Melee actually has some the most interesting stats to play around with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may be alone in this thinking but y nerf could we not just buff to get everything to the same level instead. I mean were supposed to feel unstoppable but nerffing something players enjoy seems counter productive to me. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...