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Frendh

Has there ever been any significant improvements to host migration?

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Posted (edited)

Has there ever been any significant improvements to host migration? I cannot remember how often host migration would take my loot in version 7, but I still frequently get frustrated because failed host migrations or some other directly migration related problem takes my stuff. Judging, unfairly,  by my fading memory I have not noticed any improvements.

I really enjoy doing long runs. But before every long run I have to ask myself, how angry will I get when I lose all the loot? Then decide if I consider it worthwhile or not.

I confirmed it just now with a count on my omega isotopes. Failed host migration did not let me keep any.

Edited by Frendh
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[DE]Glen talked about host migrations in some of his streams and according to him it's basically your own internet connection being bad during host migrations that leads to it failing. If you doubt that I think the course of action should be to alt f4 immediately after the migration fails so you can send a good log of it to support.

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There are several reasons for host migration initiating. In above example it was because the host extracted.

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14 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

[DE]Glen talked about host migrations in some of his streams and according to him it's basically your own internet connection being bad during host migrations that leads to it failing. If you doubt that I think the course of action should be to alt f4 immediately after the migration fails so you can send a good log of it to support.

That's a cop out at best and a flat out lie at worst. No matter how good or bad a person's internet connection is, how it is handled is 100% in the client. You can have the worst internet connection with high ping and significant packet loss yet can still use FTP with a good client to upload really large files with no problems. Yes it will take longer than on a good connection but it will still work. The client just has to handle this gracefully. The WF client just doesn't handle host migrations very gracefully in some circumstances.

The issue seems to be when the host leaves the squad either due to manual dropping or extraction, your client tries to connect to a new host. If that fails for any reason then you get dumped. What SHOULD happen is that you become your OWN host. The fact that it sometimes does not is 100% a fail in the client code written by DE.

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19 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

basically your own internet connection being bad during host migrations that leads to it failing.

Bad internet or not. They should have more fail safes in place so loot and xp is not lost. All 4 players should have matching logs so if a fail does happen you are bounced back to the ship with all xp and loot.

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There already are multiple failsafes in place to protect your inventory. If the game manages to fail to put you in a solo session after a failed migration it still has the chance to auto recover wave rewards and if all else fails knowing to take a screenshot of your recent players so you can make a proper support ticket can help support restore lost items.

In my experience with migrations I've lost more items to game crashes and mission bugs than I have with failed migrations in addition to never having a memorable failed migration. But I've always had an above average internet connection. If anyone gets failed migrations regularly I would start with improving that if possible as well as making sure you're using the correct network and region settings in-game.

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vor 14 Minuten schrieb No1NParticular31:

The issue seems to be when the host leaves the squad either due to manual dropping or extraction, your client tries to connect to a new host. If that fails for any reason then you get dumped. What SHOULD happen is that you become your OWN host. The fact that it sometimes does not is 100% a fail in the client code written by DE.

 

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Zelmen:

Bad internet or not. They should have more fail safes in place so loot and xp is not lost. All 4 players should have matching logs so if a fail does happen you are bounced back to the ship with all xp and loot.

You cant become your own host if your internet cuts out, if you cant connect to the other people in the squad that is what happens but you need to still have connection to DE's servers. Like I said if you dont believe that get game logs of the host migration failing and send them to DE. They can only fix it if you have prove. DE has been trying to get that under control for a long time but they cant reproduce any and all edge cases on their own. You need to properly report them.

vor 17 Minuten schrieb No1NParticular31:

That's a cop out at best and a flat out lie at worst. No matter how good or bad a person's internet connection is, how it is handled is 100% in the client. You can have the worst internet connection with high ping and significant packet loss yet can still use FTP with a good client to upload really large files with no problems. Yes it will take longer than on a good connection but it will still work. The client just has to handle this gracefully. The WF client just doesn't handle host migrations very gracefully in some circumstances.

The game needs to make a decision when the host is no longer available, if your internet is unstable and cuts out right there it cant start a new session. Having bad internet is not much of a problem there but it has to be stable. Just because you see it as host migration doesnt mean it really is the host leaving. If you are the one losing connection the game still has to do something and if you were the one losing connection it cant make a new session for the same reason.

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42 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

[DE]Glen talked about host migrations in some of his streams and according to him it's basically your own internet connection being bad during host migrations that leads to it failing. If you doubt that I think the course of action should be to alt f4 immediately after the migration fails so you can send a good log of it to support.

I have a bridge to sell anybody that falls for this cop out excuse.  So many reasons why this is patently false.  

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1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

The game needs to make a decision when the host is no longer available, if your internet is unstable and cuts out right there it cant start a new session. Having bad internet is not much of a problem there but it has to be stable. Just because you see it as host migration doesnt mean it really is the host leaving. If you are the one losing connection the game still has to do something and if you were the one losing connection it cant make a new session for the same reason.

Except I have had it happen to me several times and it is NOT my connection being unstable. It is almost always either in PoE or OV when the bounty is done and for some reason the host immediately drops, (usually b/c he was first to extract point and didn't want to wait 10 - 15 seconds for the last person to get there, or because he or someone else tried to start a new bounty without zoneing in).

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb No1NParticular31:

Except I have had it happen to me several times and it is NOT my connection being unstable. It is almost always either in PoE or OV when the bounty is done and for some reason the host immediately drops, (usually b/c he was first to extract point and didn't want to wait 10 - 15 seconds for the last person to get there, or because he or someone else tried to start a new bounty without zoneing in).

Then send logs to DE when it happens. Only then can they fix it.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, (XB1)OneNastyNupe said:

I have a bridge to sell anybody that falls for this cop out excuse.  So many reasons why this is patently false.  

I'm sure you'll be able to provide some.

Until you do, I'll be more than happy to take the word of a person who works on the game over that of a random forumgoer.

Edited by Corvid
Removed syntax ambiguity.
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Just now, Corvid said:

I'm sure you'll be able to provide some.

Until you do, I'll be more than happy to take the person who works on the game's word over that of a random forumgoer.

Yeah I bet you would.  And I'll take the word of the countless amount of people on these forums that experience this issue over some white knight willing to shill over copout lies.   

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2 minutes ago, (XB1)OneNastyNupe said:

Yeah I bet you would.  And I'll take the word of the countless amount of people on these forums that experience this issue over some white knight willing to shill over copout lies.   

"countless amount of people"

most people don't have problems and therefore don't post on the forums

vocal minority vs. silent majority is a thing you should consider

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, (XB1)OneNastyNupe said:

Yeah I bet you would.  And I'll take the word of the countless amount of people on these forums that experience this issue over some white knight willing to shill over copout lies.   

Still waiting on your

17 minutes ago, (XB1)OneNastyNupe said:

reasons why this is patently false.

Feel free to label me whatever you want, the fact is that you aren't making a particularly compelling case for yourself.

Also, please learn the difference between evidence and anecdotes, and remember that the majority of the game's players are never going to so much as visit the forums.

Edited by Corvid
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Just now, Corvid said:

Still waiting on your

Feel free to label me whatever you want, the fact is that you aren't making a particularly compelling case for yourself.

Also, please learn the difference between evidence and anecdotes, and remember that the majority of the game's players are never going to so much as visit the forums.

And you will keep waiting too.   Host migrations after someone extracts in Arbitration for example, is not on the remaining players.  No "unstable" connection from my experiences either, or in any of the many instances I have seen reported.  Don't tell me what or how to write, I know the difference between both, and at no point did I ever say the majority of the game's players are posting on the forums.  I said the countless people that have posted here.  "Make a case for yourself" 😂 get over yourself...who are you and why do I need to be pleading a case to you? 

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6 minutes ago, Helch0rn said:

"countless amount of people"

most people don't have problems and therefore don't post on the forums

vocal minority vs. silent majority is a thing you should consider

 

"And I'll take the word of the countless amount of people on these forums"

Another person who can't comprehend what they are reading and quick to try and police people's posts.   I clearly am talking about the people that report the issue on the forums.  Period. 

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)OneNastyNupe said:

who are you

No one important. Little more than a Pawn on the Board.

4 minutes ago, (XB1)OneNastyNupe said:

why do I need to be pleading a case to you? 

You don't. But you will need to make a better argument if you want the devs to take you at all seriously.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I'm sure you'll be able to provide some.

Until you do, I'll be more than happy to take the person who works on the game's word over that of a random forumgoer.

No1NParticular31 explained some of it in an earlier post. Packet loss for 60 seconds or whatever is in my opinion not a good reason to deny me my loot. This is a choice made by DE, maybe there are logical reasons behind it. Speculation; loot duping, mission fail avoidance, memory manipulation or something else. For instance in other games you can try and reconnect seemingly indefinitly until the other(waiting) players decide to kick you.

And again, it is not always related to internet connection. Because it happens when host extracts thus forcing migration.

Edited by Frendh
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Just now, Corvid said:

No one important. Little more than a Pawn on the Board.

You don't. But you will need to make a better argument if you want the devs to take you at all seriously.

😭😭😭😭 the devs don't read GD, this is common knowledge right?  You would know.  So I don't know what you are talking about.   Shill elsewhere.  

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Yeah, and not every player on the forums is suffering from excessive host migration problems.  Keep in mind the forums are a tiny portion of the warframe playerbase.  So we're talking about a low percentage of forum goers that are extremely vocal about something that has happened to them.  In other words, a slice of the pie apart of a very small slice of the pie that represents the total number of warframe players.  The game used to be far worse then it is now back in the old void days where you wouldn't risk going past wave 20 in a void defense for example because the connections were so shaky with the code they had then versus now.  

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, (XB1)OneNastyNupe said:

😭😭😭😭 the devs don't read GD, this is common knowledge right?  You would know.  So I don't know what you are talking about.   Shill elsewhere.  

The point, as I would hope you would gather, would be to build up a case in General Discussion (bringing examples, possible reasons or technical issues and other such factors), then take it to feedback where the devs would see it.

This is fairly basic stuff. But then again, apparently basic argumentation and/or critical thought is the tool of a "White Knight" and must therefore be shunned.

Edited by Corvid
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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

Yeah, and not every player on the forums is suffering from excessive host migration problems.  Keep in mind the forums are a tiny portion of the warframe playerbase.  So we're talking about a low percentage of forum goers that are extremely vocal about something that has happened to them.  In other words, a slice of the pie apart of a very small slice of the pie that represents the total number of warframe players.  The game used to be far worse then it is now back in the old void days where you wouldn't risk going past wave 20 in a void defense for example because the connections were so shaky with the code they had then versus now.  

But viewed from a different angle, I believe this is my first post about it. For me it has been going on since version 7, however many years that is. Meaning that people who suffers from it do not always post about it.

Edited by Frendh
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2 minutes ago, Frendh said:

But viewed from a different angle, I believe this is my first post about it. For me it has been going on since version 7, however many years that is. Meaning that people who suffers from it do not always post about it.

A fair point, but ultimately things can only be done if those who are suffering from these problems speak up.

We can only deal in known quantities, after all.

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I notice an epeen measuring contest is going on. Can I get in on it or is it a 1v1?

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