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Frendh

Has there ever been any significant improvements to host migration?

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4 minutes ago, Frendh said:

But viewed from a different angle, I believe this is my first post about it. For me it has been going on since version 7, however many years that is. Meaning that people who suffers from it do not always post about it.

Update 7 was the stone age.  That update dropped on March 18th, 2013.  If you really think no improvements have been made to the system since then the fault lies on your connection plain and simple, which is no surprise since internet in the US sucks horribly in some places and is at least passable in others.  

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2 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

I notice an epeen measuring contest is going on. Can I get in on it or is it a 1v1?

This is an all-inclusive game brother 😭

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2 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

I notice an epeen measuring contest is going on. Can I get in on it or is it a 1v1?

Assuming that I am one of the participants you are referring to, then by all means. Be wary though, I've never been in a threesome before. 😛

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

Update 7 was the stone age.  That update dropped on March 18th, 2013.  If you really think no improvements have been made to the system since then the fault lies on your connection plain and simple, which is no surprise since internet in the US sucks horribly in some places and is at least passable in others.  

Again, please read the context. The HOST EXTRACTED. I do not know the quality of my connection concerning packet loss. But for latency and bandwidth it is top of the line. I have 1000Mbit/1000Mbit connection that is upgradable to 10,000/10,000Mbit. Though I will need a new network card and a new router.

Edited by Frendh

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1 hour ago, No1NParticular31 said:

That's a cop out at best and a flat out lie at worst. No matter how good or bad a person's internet connection is, how it is handled is 100% in the client. You can have the worst internet connection with high ping and significant packet loss yet can still use FTP with a good client to upload really large files with no problems. Yes it will take longer than on a good connection but it will still work. The client just has to handle this gracefully. The WF client just doesn't handle host migrations very gracefully in some circumstances.

The issue seems to be when the host leaves the squad either due to manual dropping or extraction, your client tries to connect to a new host. If that fails for any reason then you get dumped. What SHOULD happen is that you become your OWN host. The fact that it sometimes does not is 100% a fail in the client code written by DE.

Could you provide you’re resources and references for this knowledge? 

I would like to educate myself on how you came to this certain conclusion.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, (XB1)OneNastyNupe said:

This is an all-inclusive game brother 😭

Well, that's not the response I expected. I'm actually at a loss of what to say. Uh, let's see

I never had a failed host migration in the entire time I played Warframe

 

10 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Assuming that I am one of the participants you are referring to, then by all means. Be wary though, I've never been in a threesome before. 😛

L-lewd!

Edited by Sajochi
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Just now, Sajochi said:

I never had a failed host migration in the entire time I played Warframe

I'd say you're in the minority there. Even I've had the occasional case of lost loot.

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)Kuljack said:

Could you provide you’re resources and references for this knowledge? 

I would like to educate myself on how you came to this certain conclusion.

You can read about general information about File Transfer Protocol in wikipedia. You can also google for resources that show you how to code your own file transfer protocol.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I'd say you're in the minority there. Even I've had the occasional case of lost loot.

I've lost loot but it was from a game crash a couple times. Whenever I see a migration in progress, it has gone over smoothly every time, usually with me becoming the new host. And I've been connected to some laggy hosts before, if a migration happens I can still run the mission and still have my rewards.

Clarifying the last sentence, I can still do the mission after the migration completes.

Edited by Sajochi

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1 minute ago, Sajochi said:

I've lost loot but it was from a game crash a couple times. Whenever I see a migration in progress, it has gone over smoothly every time, usually with me becoming the new host. And I've been connected to some laggy hosts before, if a migration happens I can still run the mission and still have my rewards.

I wasn't disbelieving you there (I always assume good faith with these matters), I'm just pointing out that you are relatively fortunate.

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

the fault lies on your connection plain and simple, which is no surprise since internet in the US sucks horribly in some places and is at least passable in others.  

Again I can assure you this is not the case for me. I work from home and have 1 computer that stays perma-VPN connected to my job using a client that for security reason is sensitive to packet loss or weak connections. So if I was experiencing ANY PL at all that would drop LONG before WF did and that is not happening. Also I have a 200 MBs connection and WF only uses a tiny fraction of what is available so speed isn't an issue.

I will also say that this does not happen every time there is a host migration.

What I *THINK* is happening is that when the host leaves a squad, someone else in the squad is chosen to be the host and the remaining players then attempt to connect to that person. If THAT person has a bad connection or themselves have left the game/play-field then even if you have a good internet connection you will not be able to connect. Instead of then choosing a new host for you to connect to OR just making yourself host, the game decides to boot you. Even that would be fine but instead of saving progress (loot/exp) it causes a fail and complete loss.

A very simple solution (for bounties at least) would be to lock in rewards after each stage is completed. Similar to how NW rewards are saved once earned even if you fail, abandon, or even Alt+F4 out of a mission. For endless missions (Survival/Defense) rewards should be locked in after each reward stage.

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9 minutes ago, No1NParticular31 said:

A very simple solution (for bounties at least) would be to lock in rewards after each stage is completed. Similar to how NW rewards are saved once earned even if you fail, abandon, or even Alt+F4 out of a mission. For endless missions (Survival/Defense) rewards should be locked in after each reward stage.

I'm fairly certain the game already does this (though it might not display on the mission results screen, I think the items get credited to your inventory regardless), and I know that such a system is in place for the Landscapes (I think it checks after every bounty stage).

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1 hour ago, Drachnyn said:

You cant become your own host if your internet cuts out

Actually you can. Try turning on the system setting (FPS, Ram, PING). You know what's missing when you are host PING. Because your computer is the server. That is what P2P is about. They have fully capabilities to build a client that can mirror host files and save data in the event of a disconnection. They could also save they data to the server where account data is saved. All they have to do is a check to see if the person is still online. If not just add the loot to the inventory so it there when they log back on. There are tons of options.

Stop trying to talk nonsense you don't understand.

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1 hour ago, Drachnyn said:

The game needs to make a decision when the host is no longer available, if your internet is unstable and cuts out right there it cant start a new session. Having bad internet is not much of a problem there but it has to be stable. Just because you see it as host migration doesnt mean it really is the host leaving. If you are the one losing connection the game still has to do something and if you were the one losing connection it cant make a new session for the same reason.

as I programmer I can tell you that is a 100% false statement.

how a program handles this situation is completely up to the intelligence of the person designing the system and the person writing the code

 

an example that the game does support no connection to the DE servers is when you finish your mission, but the DE servers are down.
what happens next is, it will ask you if you want to abort mission completion or try again to connect to the DE servers, this has been in the game for quite some years now iirc

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vor 59 Minuten schrieb Zelmen:

Actually you can. Try turning on the system setting (FPS, Ram, PING). You know what's missing when you are host PING. Because your computer is the server. That is what P2P is about. They have fully capabilities to build a client that can mirror host files and save data in the event of a disconnection. They could also save they data to the server where account data is saved. All they have to do is a check to see if the person is still online. If not just add the loot to the inventory so it there when they log back on. There are tons of options.

Stop trying to talk nonsense you don't understand.

You cant start a mission if you have no connection though. Cant as in DE wont let you. And mission data is not uploaded to DE's servers during the mission. You need to remember that the clients dont save the entire game state. They need to reconstruct it in the event of a host migration from as little as neccessary to not give systems unneccessary workload when in the vast majority of cases no host migration will happen. This is why ability states dont get transfered over.

vor 28 Minuten schrieb BlackVortex:

as I programmer I can tell you that is a 100% false statement.

how a program handles this situation is completely up to the intelligence of the person designing the system and the person writing the code

 

an example that the game does support no connection to the DE servers is when you finish your mission, but the DE servers are down.
what happens next is, it will ask you if you want to abort mission completion or try again to connect to the DE servers, this has been in the game for quite some years now iirc

Both of you can look through glen's streams or ask him in the next one how it exactly works. I know I'm not a programmer, this is just how I understood it. I get that it's technically possible to host a game without internet connection but warframe doesnt generally let because they dont want you to do your own stuff without supervision.

And again: if you dont think your internet is at fault, send them logs when it happens. IIRC glen wants you to alt f4 immediatly so the last log shows what happened clearly.

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1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

And mission data is not uploaded to DE's servers during the mission.

data is being transfered to DE's servers during a mission though, albeit I don't know what type of data. (ever noticed in a solo mission when DE servers are down you get the connection message?)

4 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

You need to remember that the clients dont save the entire game state.

this might or might not be true, I have not debugged the game and do not intend to do so, but the client has A LOT of game data stored, if we are talking about drops(which have been picked up by clients) and such, I think this is stored on the client and possibly the host and might also be synced to the server (I think there is some duplicated data in there)

what is not stored on the client are the contents of the drops in the map and some other data about the other clients

but it is enough for you to carry on your own mission as a host (even if this means continuing solo)

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb BlackVortex:

data is being transfered to DE's servers during a mission though, albeit I don't know what type of data. (ever noticed in a solo mission when DE servers are down you get the connection message?)

this might or might not be true, I have not debugged the game and do not intend to do so, but the client has A LOT of game data stored, if we are talking about drops(which have been picked up by clients) and such, I think this is stored on the client and possibly the host and might also be synced to the server (I think there is some duplicated data in there)

what is not stored on the client are the contents of the drops in the map and some other data about the other clients

but it is enough for you to carry on your own mission as a host (even if this means continuing solo)

Generally yes but you wont get that far if your own connection fails. Your mission loot and rewards arent copied to the server during the mission in most cases (relic rewards and bounties are a bit of an exception to that). And host migrations have been abused in the past for exploits, for example in nightwave season one or with silver grove specters. So sure it would be technically possible but would invite a whole lot of other troubles with people abusing host migrations to gain an advantage without DE being able to check. I wont repeat myself to properly report host migrations if you think you were wronged.

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4 hours ago, (XB1)OneNastyNupe said:

some white knight willing to shill over copout lies.   

I agreed with you at first... But now since you've resorted to name-calling I can't listen to you anymore. It's just as MCgamerz said... 

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2 minutes ago, (NSW)Edcaous said:

I agreed with you at first... But now since you've resorted to name-calling I can't listen to you anymore. It's just as MCgamerz said... 

You got me there! What will I ever do now that you don't agree with me? So sad. 

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)OneNastyNupe said:

What will I ever do now that you don't agree with me? So sad. 

If you're not going to even properly read, then why bother responding?

I still agree with you, but I can't do anything for you, friend. Please don't waste time responding, unless I've gotten something horribly wrong. 

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1 minute ago, (NSW)Edcaous said:

If you're not going to even properly read, then why bother responding?

I still agree with you, but I can't do anything for you, friend. Please don't waste time responding, unless I've gotten something horribly wrong. 

I read everything you wrote, properly, loud and clear buddy.  It was literally only a few sentences.  You sure taught me a lesson, not listening to me anymore...whatever will I do now?  I guess I broke your rule in responding too, damn you are right I can't properly read either! You said you agreed at first, which implies you no longer do.  Make up your mind. Damn!  "I can't do anything for you" I am sure I will get along just fine, without your help, which not a single soul asked for btw. Thanks.  Moving along.  Your input is not needed.  

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, (XB1)OneNastyNupe said:

I read everything you wrote, properly, loud and clear buddy.  It was literally only a few sentences.  You sure taught me a lesson, not listening to me anymore...whatever will I do now?  I guess I broke your rule in responding too, damn you are right I can't properly read either! You said you agreed at first, which implies you no longer do.  Make up your mind. Damn!  "I can't do anything for you" I am sure I will get along just fine, without your help, which not a single soul asked for btw. Thanks.  Moving along.  Your input is not needed.  

It's not a lesson. I thought my initial post was nice and clear.

22 hours ago, (XB1)OneNastyNupe said:

I am sure I will get along just fine, without your help, which not a single soul asked for btw. Your input is not needed.  

Right, because people can't reply unless they're given permission... since we're talking about rules, didn't you break this one too?

22 hours ago, (XB1)OneNastyNupe said:

You said you agreed at first, which implies you no longer do. 

You resorting to labeling and name-calling doesn't mean I don't agree with you any more. It just makes you look pathetic poorly in front of others. My bad, I thought everyone knew this. It also didn't help that I just came from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DryCk_uIsik.

latest?cb=20171007144303

Edited by (NSW)Edcaous
Increased size of picture.
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, No1NParticular31 said:

What I *THINK* is happening is that when the host leaves a squad, someone else in the squad is chosen to be the host and the remaining players then attempt to connect to that person. If THAT person has a bad connection or themselves have left the game/play-field then even if you have a good internet connection you will not be able to connect. Instead of then choosing a new host for you to connect to OR just making yourself host, the game decides to boot you. Even that would be fine but instead of saving progress (loot/exp) it causes a fail and complete loss.

What I know will happen, is that if the assigned new host crashes/alt+f4/aborts or has a horrible pc/connection, you will get this message and say bye bye to all your progress:
A4bvrNl.jpg

EDIT:
Basically I just replaced the word *THINK* with "know" from your previous post, I'm sure you are very confident about that too

Edited by BlackVortex
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, (NSW)Edcaous said:

It's not a lesson. I will give you a like for effort though. Anyways, I thought my initial post was nice and clear.

Right, because people can't reply unless they're given permission... since we're talking about rules, didn't you break this one too?

You resorting to labeling and name-calling doesn't mean I don't agree with you any more. It just makes you look pathetic poorly in front of others. My bad, I thought everyone knew this. It also didn't help that I just came from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DryCk_uIsik.

latest?cb=20171007144303

Oh, he links a youtuber...this should go over well...Let me say it before everyone else does.  No one cares what some youtube content creator thinks.  And you continue you to reply, as if you are teaching me this lesson that I continue to miss.   You are really putting me in my place, thats for sure!  Right on! You must be one of the white knight shills I refer to, since it has apparently struck a nerve.  Sad!  Moving right along, the discussion was basically dead until you came in here with your self-righteous finger wagging. Move along.  I don't want or need your approval or to agree on anything stated here.  Go watch more  youtube videos and let the grownups talk in peace.  I don't give a damn how poorly I look to some random forum poster.  Host migrations are an issue, and the ones described here have nothing to do with poor connection.  

Edited by (XB1)OneNastyNupe
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2 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

Generally yes but you wont get that far if your own connection fails. Your mission loot and rewards arent copied to the server during the mission in most cases (relic rewards and bounties are a bit of an exception to that).

Well the loot you gathered can still be stored since this information is stored client side, you can actually instead of getting said failed message, be turned into a solo host.

2 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

And host migrations have been abused in the past for exploits, for example in nightwave season one or with silver grove specters

that is so true

2 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

I wont repeat myself to properly report host migrations if you think you were wronged.

not sure what you meant by this, but in the past I have reported a failed host migration and DE Support has reimbursed me with the important items that I lost in that host migration.
I just can't be bothered taking 30 minutes out of my life to submit a ticket to get an item back unless it takes more than an hour to farm it.
 

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