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(PS4)Silverback73

DE, Rivens need to act like low-level Dragon Keys.

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Simply put, there is little cost to offset the power disparity they create, and the gameplay implications that follow.

I’m not that Player that thinks they are game-design cancer.  I am not trying to invalidate that viewpoint, either.

I definitely see how they are driving revenue numbers to allow for continued development of Warframe (I’d be curious to see HOW MUCH now that the limit is 120; very telling).

However...

Adding a low-level “dragon-key-like” penalty to your Warframe for using a corrupt-but-powerful Riven just makes sense from a gameplay and lore standpoint.

Their “penalties” are really just there to assist in Kuva farming and re-rolls, ie a timesink strategy to get a product that pulls plat out of the economy and creates a huge power disparity between Old players and New when used in gameplay.

The official stance on them is “not necessary” but in one sense they do invalidate a lot of the content that your Dev team strives to make challenging and rewarding.  People WILL use them.

And so, my suggestion is simple.  If Rivens really ARE as their namesake implies, given by a Cephalon with a name that is a very clever, subtle Anagram for “A*modeus”, then add a level of strategy and validity to them.

Give them a low-level Dragon-key-like penalty to Warframes that use them.

Thanks for your consideration!

-Silverback

 

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what? how should this work?

Szenario with 4 different Rivens:

Primary: Arca Plasmor with a Health penalty
Secondary: catchmoon with a shield penalty
Melee: Kripath: with a Damage penalty
Sentinel Weapon: with a Speed penalty

And all this different penaltys for your Warframe? Good luck! ^^

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7 hours ago, Tristan_GER said:

what? how should this work?

Szenario with 4 different Rivens:

Primary: Arca Plasmor with a Health penalty
Secondary: catchmoon with a shield penalty
Melee: Kripath: with a Damage penalty
Sentinel Weapon: with a Speed penalty

And all this different penaltys for your Warframe? Good luck! ^^

Only when active, so the Sentinel would be actively penalized.

And whichever weapon you currently have equipped would incur that Riven’s penalty on your Warframe. 

Easy, common sense solution.

 

 

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There already is a chance that Rivens get a negative stat, and to be honest most people want a negative as well. Since a negative stat make the positive more powerful.

So i am not sure what you want, do you want the current negative to be replaced because you do not think the current one are punishing enough? Or are you unaware that Rivens can have negative and / or that having a negative on a Riven make the positive effects stronger?

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You can select those Rivens with specific negatives and use them to achieve what penalty you’d prefer. If you need more penalty types, you can equip specific dragon keys to achieve the same result. Keep this to yourself. 

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I think that this is an interesting concept as a "rework" to the concept of negative stats on Riven mods. As it stands negative stat rolls never have much of an impact beyond just making a roll trash tier. Either a negative stat makes a Riven useless or it has no impact at all (or sometimes is actually a buff), either way they fail at the core concept of having a stat reduction to balance a stat increase. But like most Riven-related suggestions, it doesn't matter because DE is (rightly) scared to make any systemic changes to certain player's "pride and accomplishment".
 

Spoiler

It also doesn't address the fundamental problem with there being no traditional "progression" within Rivens, making them inherently uninteresting to those that don't enjoy slot machines.

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But the suggestion of Rivens acting as Dragon keys in some respect is an interesting route I don't think I have seen suggested before, defiantly makes sense as an option and would like to see it entertained with a more fully featured Riven rework.

 

 

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No, there no need for another mechcanic to be added just because rivens make some weapons do X and people are always going to use X. Because really in the long term dragon key penalties are moot (except possibly the double debuff to speed when you have to use it to unlock the door)

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13 hours ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

There already is a chance that Rivens get a negative stat, and to be honest most people want a negative as well. Since a negative stat make the positive more powerful.

So i am not sure what you want, do you want the current negative to be replaced because you do not think the current one are punishing enough? Or are you unaware that Rivens can have negative and / or that having a negative on a Riven make the positive effects stronger?

I should correct a bit, it's a "negative" stat people want, since in practise said penalty will not do anything at all.

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13 hours ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

There already is a chance that Rivens get a negative stat, and to be honest most people want a negative as well. Since a negative stat make the positive more powerful.

So i am not sure what you want, do you want the current negative to be replaced because you do not think the current one are punishing enough? Or are you unaware that Rivens can have negative and / or that having a negative on a Riven make the positive effects stronger?

No.  I want a 5-20% dragon key effect on a Riven depending on how high you rank it.  We all know negatives are only there to boost positives.

 

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16 hours ago, George_PPS said:

You can select those Rivens with specific negatives and use them to achieve what penalty you’d prefer. If you need more penalty types, you can equip specific dragon keys to achieve the same result. Keep this to yourself. 

Whether you agree or not, Rivens are disproportionately skewing gameplay.

In the relative short-term, Rivens drive revenue, but I fear for the long-term value of the gameplay.

Bullet-sponges and Damage Gating have been the only response now that Pandora’s Box is open.  DE probably won’t touch them, but they should.

We haven’t really seen fast and deadly enemies that can avoid damage and CRIT-strike or perform finishers on Warframes (RIP original Manics).

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Ah yes, the "Let's attempt to balance things through brutal nerfs because I don't understand that Warframe is a power-fantasy even though developers mentioned it multiple time over the span of 6 years" and also that sweet "I will fix the riven economy by making it even worse"

nOice

Ahem, this change of yours will make riven market even more cancerous and even more riven mod rolls will become completely OBSOLETE. Losing 20% of ANY of your total stats is a big thing.

The change you propose will affect those not favored by RNG and not willing to pay 5k plat for "god rolls" the most. They will suffer, meanwhile meta-players will still aim for SUPAH CRIT MIN MAX rivens and their prices will increase drastically because negatives are more severe this time around. All in all you will just amp up the bad stuff without adding anything good.

Want to fix riven economy? Easy. Let me throw you some ideas that HUNDREDS of players thought of already:

  • Allow players to choose riven stats. Easiest one lmao.
  • Allow players to "lock" a stat per roll by paying kuva(or some kind of new resource that can be dropped by lets say, uhhh, KUVA LICHES FROM THE NEXT BIG UPDATE OH WOW) for each stat locked. Or maybe allow each locked stat to increase the reroll cost. You can create your perfect riven, it will take time, it's still random, but as you work on it, the chances of negative income increase. Whales will still spend their cash to skip the grind. Normal players and free2players will not suffer as much.
  • Improve kuva rewards, add kuva scaling for Kuva Survival.

 

This post is the most stupid thing I've read in a long time. Though I shouldn't be as surpirsed and I might be a little bit biased because you signed your post like a re-*cough*-gal person.

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You mean “regal” in a facetious, pompous way?

 

No.  I’m just slightly older and trying to promote discussion by being polite and sincere.

I know any time nerfs or true negatives that affect balance and gameplay are considered, a certain segment will have knee-jerk reactions that border on vitriolic.

The “20%” might BE too high.  Numbers can be tweaked.  The bottom line, though, is that there really are no negatives to Rivens as even those are used to boost positive bonuses.

Disliking the idea with reasons is fine.

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To be brutally honest the two wrongest things about rivens are not even really about rivens themselves. 

1) grind vs luck

It's a trend in the whole game. Tbh rivens would be much more interesting and coulb be balanced by having you actually grind them instead of rolling the lottery. Maybe by using them. And you could keep kuva as a "spiker" to speed up the process or boost an already grinded mod. 

2) unnecessary power in a land of lv 80s

Rivens imbalances are not really imbalances in that their only use is pushing the boundaries at actually high levels, past 250 or so. At lv 80 a microsecond faster killtime won't make a difference. If anything, if you stay within the game's readily accessible content, they kinda fulfill their role of making less powerful weapons able to compete. 

At the same time, the main reason riven for strong guns even exist should, in theory, be to allow high end players to push further, but in practice that never happens unless you are one of those mad and free-time showered lads that can spend 3 hours in a single mission. 

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On 2019-10-02 at 7:41 AM, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

just makes sense from a gameplay and lore standpoint.

What lore standpoint?

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1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

What lore standpoint?

Rivens (or “being Riven” in Natah’s case) from a lore perspective are a perversion, stronger but with a cost.

Samodeus is likely a subtle Anagram.

From a gameplay perspective, however, they are a straight buff.  Just play and roll and reroll until you get your G-Roll or near G-roll.

There is no real cost to using them.

They are not split or torn apart or compromised in any way.

They don’t even fit the basic definition of “Riven”.  Just rename it if you want to make super mods.

 

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10 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

No.  I want a 5-20% dragon key effect on a Riven depending on how high you rank it.  We all know negatives are only there to boost positives.

Then no.

You effectively want Rivens to either be even stronger at the cost of Warframe power or about the same at the cost of Warframe power.

Weapons are already on a different level compared to Warframes, easily being able to hit damage numbers that are so absurd there is no need for it. And yet you either want the "negative" Riven modifiers to be replaced by negative Warframe modifiers, and that would make no sense at all.

Or you want the old negative weapon modifier to stay and add a additional layer on top of the riven. Once again not making any sense. Since it wont matter at the end of they day, you may ask why it wont matter?

Because 25% Damage of pretty much infinity is still infinity, and that is how much a good built weapon pretty much deal. This is a little bit hyperbole but i have had scenarios where i accidentally take a Extinguished Key on a Sortie and still manage fine, because weapons as it currently stand are simply that strong.

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The penalty is that you have to:

- Use a garbage weapon for max benefits 

- remod/ forma the whole weapon

- be very lucky to get the right riven

- grind Kuva for the statslottery

- or be rich to save some time

Oh and then you'll have fun every time DE Reba lances your stuff. 

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On 2019-10-03 at 5:29 PM, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Rivens (or “being Riven” in Natah’s case)

Riven is different from riven. Just like Alad V did not literally forge Valkyr, you are mixing meanings.

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