saryn rework when?

[MegaloStrikeBack]

5 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

buffs and nerfs are an important part of balancing a game. ill say it again. if a game is multiplayer/online coop, it needs to have balance passes.

The thing is, DE will very likely just do what they did to Ember, then will take 100 years to rework her back to something playable. 

[EinheriarJudith]

5 minutes ago, MegaloStrikeBack said:

The thing is, DE will very likely just do what they did to Ember, then will take 100 years to rework her back to something playable. 

you mean make a balanced frame? current ember is balanced. infact saryn 1.0 was far stronger than she is now due to negative duration miasma spam. saryn 2.0 is where they should have stopped.

[Gurpgork]

1 hour ago, Xepthrichros said:

If radial nuking is such a "griefing" behavior. Explain why people recruit for radial nukers for Hydron and ESO? I should not be seeing anyone ask for Saryn or similar at all.  But why is it asked for?  Explain why even in random public games, I've seen random players give the team's radial nuker or nukers  energy pizzas, or Zenurik energy regen for them, even when the radial nukers may be doing so themselves?  As if to implicitly say "hey thanks for speeding up the farm, please continue what you are doing".. Sure, some just go complete AFK or leave. But I've seen people that try to ensure the nuker never runs out of energy too.

Saryn is as popular as she is for one exceptionally simple reason: She kills many, many enemies, and more enemies = more EXP and loot. This isn't to say that there aren't people who genuinely intrinsically enjoy playing as or with Saryn, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that more than half the reason for Saryn's popularity is because she's the best EXP farming tool in the game. And people usually don't complain because there are lots of extrinsic reasons to play Saryn, if not have one in your squad, even if it harms their intrinsic enjoyment of the game. And we know that people tend to prioritize rewards over having better gameplay, because otherwise burnout would be a much smaller problem. 

And we've seen this before. Nekros used to have the worst gameplay in the roster and he was still immensely popular. Before his most recent rework, he was most commonly relegated to standing in the corner and mashing 3 as much as possible, and yet people still played him because it was the best way to get more loot. 

People used to run farm squads that were so boring to play that they would literally automate them so they didn't have to be at the keyboard, and that lasted until DE started adding AFK trackers and reworking the Warframes that they were abusing at the time. 

So popularity is not necessarily a sign of a thing being more fun, and sometimes, in fact, these things that are popular can have playstyles that are little better than tedious assembly line work and lead to people playing the game like it's a job. 

Also sharing energy is really common whether Saryn is present or not, this being primarily a coop game and all. I don't think I've played a mission since PoE without at least one person who uses Zenurik. And like. Even though I dislike having a Saryn in my squad, I don't withhold my resources because of it. 

[Gurpgork]

58 minutes ago, Cibyllae said:

I agree. People that advocate for a third rework conveniently forget that we are here now because people complained in the first place.

This makes me wonder. Who actually asked for Saryn 3.0? Like I get that Saryn 2.0 was really janky and kinda buggy and full of incomprehensible math, but the question still stands: Who asked for that rework? 

[(PSN)iPhoneLoverRes]

Saryn shouldn’t be reworked because at the end of the day, she’s an AoE frame like equinox, volt, ember, gara, Garuda. It’s all based on HOW players mod their warframe. I’m in not survival with Garuda and I can nuke a whole room, I use Saryn a lot and there’s no issues with her, so people like you low level people who don’t know how a frame works shouldn’t be asking for a rework or a nerf or a buff. Sarynz been reworked 3 DAMN TIMES, she doesn’t need to be touched anymore! 

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

This makes me wonder. Who actually asked for Saryn 3.0? Like I get that Saryn 2.0 was really janky and kinda buggy and full of incomprehensible math, but the question still stands: Who asked for that rework? 

It was weird.  It just sort of seemed to come out of the blue--particularly when so many other frames needed work.

IIRC--and maybe I really don't--it started as Pablo finishing up some incomplete aspects of her previous rework, and ended up becoming a more radical passion project.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Tiltskillet

[DawnFyreSon]

1 hour ago, (PS4)iPhoneLoverRes said:

Saryn shouldn’t be reworked because at the end of the day, she’s an AoE frame like equinox, volt, ember, gara, Garuda. It’s all based on HOW players mod their warframe. I’m in not survival with Garuda and I can nuke a whole room, I use Saryn a lot and there’s no issues with her, so people like you low level people who don’t know how a frame works shouldn’t be asking for a rework or a nerf or a buff

Shes an aoe frame yes, but shes an aoe frame thats better than the other frames in several ways, especially being able to strip armor and apply the best statuses, while having the best energy economy.

Shes stronger than other frames and shes eventually getting nerfed. Its not because I or you asked for that, its because she simply is OP.

[selig_fay]

1 час назад, DawnFyreSon сказал:

Shes stronger than other frames and shes eventually getting nerfed. Its not because I or you asked for that, its because she simply is OP.

If things got buffs and be nerfed without words, no one would bring up the subject. But it doesn't work that way. If not to remind, many outdated things will remain untouched. 

[Xepthrichros]

5 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Saryn is as popular as she is for one exceptionally simple reason: She kills many, many enemies, and more enemies = more EXP and loot. This isn't to say that there aren't people who genuinely intrinsically enjoy playing as or with Saryn, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that more than half the reason for Saryn's popularity is because she's the best EXP farming tool in the game. And people usually don't complain because there are lots of extrinsic reasons to play Saryn, if not have one in your squad, even if it harms their intrinsic enjoyment of the game. And we know that people tend to prioritize rewards over having better gameplay, because otherwise burnout would be a much smaller problem. 

And we've seen this before. Nekros used to have the worst gameplay in the roster and he was still immensely popular. Before his most recent rework, he was most commonly relegated to standing in the corner and mashing 3 as much as possible, and yet people still played him because it was the best way to get more loot. 

People used to run farm squads that were so boring to play that they would literally automate them so they didn't have to be at the keyboard, and that lasted until DE started adding AFK trackers and reworking the Warframes that they were abusing at the time. 

So popularity is not necessarily a sign of a thing being more fun, and sometimes, in fact, these things that are popular can have playstyles that are little better than tedious assembly line work and lead to people playing the game like it's a job. 

Also sharing energy is really common whether Saryn is present or not, this being primarily a coop game and all. I don't think I've played a mission since PoE without at least one person who uses Zenurik. And like. Even though I dislike having a Saryn in my squad, I don't withhold my resources because of it. 

And people resort to ways to speed up XP and loot farm for one simple reason, the enemy design of the fodder is simply not intrinsically entertaining enough. The novelty / challenge of fighting these enemies has long worn off, but you are still stuck fighting them because you still have maybe 10 more primes to get, and this is common for many people. And every prime release or vault unsealed is stuck behind mostly fodder-based modes. Forcing veterans to return to them if they just want to complete their collection. Thus people speed up the process via gravitating towards meta-type gear, of which, Saryn is part of. You remove the Saryn, what you get? You might think it's fun, but to others, it's not. It's just farm. Grind, Boredom  And people quit when they see how much they have to farm, how long they have to do it, and how there is no method to speed it up. WarFARM is a meme because of a reason. 

Fix the problems with the game with better modes, enemies etc. and you also get your fix for your interactivity, while still allowing people who do enjoy the nukes to enjoy it  Cos again there will be modes for the map nukers, and there will be modes for other approaches like CC and gunplay. Instead of nerfs, which again, is to globally destroy one group's way of play so as to exalt another's throughout the whole game, instead of just splitting the styles into different modes catered to them. More modes is better as it enables more to keep their way of play., rather than delete one to keep another. It's so simple yet we have to repeat this so many times. 

 

As a sidenote: Nukes are really easy scapegoats to blame boredom on, and yet, when I farm for souls and have enough intel/strength to kill an enemy in DS within 1 or 2 hits, I still feel a sense of excitement anyway - and why? Because regardless of how strong the nuke is, I myself can die to that enemy in one or two hits the moment I let my guard down. Warframe has nukes + immortality + 3 team mates to save you on top of it. Your nuke nerf solves nothing except making people feel disrespected and their past progression seem pointless. 

In a way, both of us are seeking something similar. More interactivity. I ask for it in a way of modes because when there's new stuff, it's generally more enticing as something new to learn, and also makes sense to feel weak or unable to handle a new challenge initially. You ask for nerfs - but that results in slower ways to do old things that we have conquered a thousand times over while also annoying all the people that may main the nerfed equipment, or just spent much time forma-ing the nerfed item in the past and now they have to re-forma it or just delete it from inventory if the nerf is too much. And what does it mean to forma again? More farm.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[DawnFyreSon]

So much philosophy on saryn... nuke frames arent the problem of this thread, saryn is. Stop trying to justify saryn by making it about all nuke frames, Saryn in particular is OP period.

[Xepthrichros]

3 minutes ago, DawnFyreSon said:

So much philosophy on saryn... nuke frames arent the problem of this thread, saryn is. Stop trying to justify saryn by making it about all nuke frames, Saryn in particular is OP period.

And people will come after all the other nuke frames after they are done with Saryn. Just read these forums long enough and you will know it. It will not stop with Saryn. 

[Miyabi-sama]

15 минут назад, DawnFyreSon сказал:

So much philosophy on saryn... nuke frames arent the problem of this thread, saryn is. Stop trying to justify saryn by making it about all nuke frames, Saryn in particular is OP period.

Well ok go play some other frame son. What holds you?

[DawnFyreSon]

10 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

Well ok go play some other frame son. What holds you?

I already am? I am just saying that this thread is waaay offtopic. If you want to defend something then defend Saryn in particular (eg her insane energy economy, the fact she deletes armor etc) talking in general about "how nuke frames are crucial to farming" isnt relevant here, since Saryn is by far better than the rest of them, for several reasons.

The devs after all aren't thinking about blanket nerfing all nukers, they are thinking about hitting Saryn specifically.

Edited October 18, 2019 by DawnFyreSon

[Miyabi-sama]

5 минут назад, DawnFyreSon сказал:

I already am? I am just saying that this thread is waaay offtopic. If you want to defend something then defend Saryn in particular (eg her insane energy economy, the fact she deletes armor etc) talking in general about "how nuke frames are crucial to farming" isnt relevant here, since Saryn is by far better than the rest of them, for several reasons.

What a load of nonsense.

Is that about Saryn is "way too" good? Or is it because Saryn is "better" than your sweet raisin beloved favourite and underappreciated warframe?

[DawnFyreSon]

15 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

sweet raisin beloved favourite and underappreciated warframe?

sounds like someone has an overattachment to a certain frame...

[Miyabi-sama]

5 минут назад, DawnFyreSon сказал:

sounds like someone has an overattachment to a certain frame...

Yeah. And it is not Saryn, lol. Try better son.

Or just go play.

[Xepthrichros]

6 minutes ago, DawnFyreSon said:

sounds like someone has an overattachment to a certain frame...

You mean yourself? 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

The people who complain Saryns too strong will be the same people who complain that she’s too weak after they get her nerfed.

[EinheriarJudith]

36 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The people who complain Saryns too strong will be the same people who complain that she’s too weak after they get her nerfed.

thats quite the assumption as i am not one of the people who claim ember is bad. saryn 1.0 was way stronger than she is now and people would be complaining much harder if that version of her stayed. 2.0 was something they should have kept fine tuning. 3.0 was completely unnecessary. a frame can be AOE and deal high damage without leaving 3 other people in the same team with nothing to do. see mag, nova, chora, garuda, nezha, ember, zephyr, oberon, ash to name quite a few.

Edited October 18, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, EinheriarJudith said:

thats quite the assumption as i am not one of the people who claim ember is bad. 

Have you been living under a rock?

[EinheriarJudith]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Have you been living under a rock?

what kind of reply is this. be constructive or dont say anything.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, EinheriarJudith said:

what kind of reply is this. be constructive or dont say anything.

Ember is literally a DPS frame that cannot DPS. If that doesn’t register as “bad” to you then I don’t think you have the necessary skills to judge how good a frame is.

[EinheriarJudith]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Ember is literally a DPS frame that cannot DPS. If that doesn’t register as “bad” to you then I don’t think you have the necessary skills to judge how good a frame is.

cant DPS? i see you have nothing of use to add to the discussion if you think she cant DPS.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, EinheriarJudith said:

cant DPS? i see you have nothing of use to add to the discussion if you think she cant DPS.

I mean if you throw her against anything below level 20 she’ll destroy, but so will any other frame. She doesn’t scale. She’s outperformed by frames who are already out performed by the like of Saryn and Mesa. She’s not a good frame.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I mean if you throw her against anything below level 20 she’ll destroy, but so will any other frame. She doesn’t scale. She’s outperformed by frames who are already out performed by the like of Saryn and Mesa. She’s not a good frame.

you do realize that saryn uses some of the strongest damage types right? Corrosive, toxin and viral. you do realize that without mesa aim bot she would be right there with titania for damage right?

embers damage is in Heat that is buffed for her weapons and her own frame powers. it blows my mind when people fail to consider weapon damage as part of their DPS. this is the problem with power spam.