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Jarriaga

Second proposed Valkyr rework (Please kill Ripline, make Warcry her core ability)

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1 hour ago, NoLazyShadow said:

Seems like DE decided to keep ignoring Valkyr alltogether. ZERO changes to her with update 26! Even Exal got updated animations for his ult!

Indeed.

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I was not expecting changes for Valkyr before the melee update. I am hoping we see some changes over the next 1-2 month.

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10 hours ago, NoLazyShadow said:

Seems like DE decided to keep ignoring Valkyr alltogether. ZERO changes to her with update 26! Even Exal got updated animations for his ult!

Actually there were some changes to her Ripline with update 26

Before there was fixed amount of upward momentum so you can go over the ledges, now it remember yours momentum and you can essentialy swing around corners as if on a rope. Good stuff.

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The change to Hysteria that you're proposing, IE damage reduction instead of invulnerabilty, is, contrary though it may seem, a massive buff for Valkyr due to her life stealing claws. Right now, infinite hysteria is possible but it takes actively changing between weapons to lose the invulnerability while keeping hysteria active in order to strategically take damage to get topped off with energy from Rage/Adrenaline but going Damage reduction is just an insane massive buff for Valkyr's hysteria since if nothing else changed she'd be able to infinitely stay hysterical from the damage she's taking, damage that is utterly irrelevant since she'd just be taking health anyway. I don't know if it's a good idea, or if even worse we'd have to trade the life drain from our claws in order to get it and frankly that's something I absolutely don't want to give up.

The main thing right now that I'd like to see that would be a big buff to her Hysteria is getting the augment just rolled into the base ability so we can pounce which would solve the big problem with the range Hysteria has.

Edited by Alric

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Venka Prime without a Riven in the new melee system vs. level 165 CHG and Bombards, pause AI disabled (So no stealth bonus):

Now go do the same with Hysteria.

Anyone saying Hysteria's damage is fine is experiencing cognitive dissonance over their love for Valkyr. Her inability to equip Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds severely limits how much it can scale, making it quite inferior as an option other than being immortal, which doesn't really mean much when you can't kill anything nearly as fast.

Valkyr needs a rework. In particular, she needs an ability that helps her scale up. 

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Valkyr needs some love and if the one in chage is DE Pablo it would be better, been loving wukong rework, and actually think he can do better for valkyr.

Ripline its part of valkyrs lore, I think it should be re imagined to be better as an ability for her, warcry paralysis and Hysteria need a great rework, specially hysteria.

It can be as I mentioned in other post:

Ripline

- Given a pinata like effect when the mod comes to you you can strike it with your melee for X damage, lower energy cost.

Or

- make it a line of sigh ability that allow you snatch multiple targets at the same, the targets will be bring knocked down to your feets so you can combo them.

Or

- make it a wip like ability, valkyr was the BDSM girl before Khora.

I think her 2 should be an amalgam between warcry and paralysis, like giving your allies the full buff for warcry+ for close enemies get knockback for the initial casting like in Paralysis,, then you'll have a ring around that apply the debuff to targets that get close to you, as long as the ability last  her 3 should be a new ability and her 4 her exalted claws with quicker animations and more escalable options for her.

I be even in favor of totally rework her 4 as overall new ability even if it means eliminating her exalted claws.

Edited by prodi1600
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I think we need a better exalted combos or at leas a little "slashes effect" to extend their very low base range and buffs on dmg (al exalted weapons are patetic now), the "ultimate" dont feel like their "badass weapon" just feel like a hilarius cat, and ripline is trash on the 99% of the situations.

 

I agree about update valkyr (my main from the day when be released) and i agree about put another skill instead ripline tons of idea can be usefull a spiral tornado, gap closer dashing slash, inclusive a "3 hits spam" like atlas have all with their claws scaling with their mele+wf mods to get a good amount of dmg

 

The idea of make aditional effects on the skills based on the warcry effect on/off more base range on paralisis remove their shield and turn it on hp and remove the inmortality on histerya to make enjoyable use with risk....

 

I love valkyr but she is very outdated and only their insane at speed buff + their innate ehp are really atractive.... i feel more "berserk" playstile garuda on mele jumping to everyone and impaling him to create sustained zones to fight than using valkyr riplines or histeria, ripline is fine..... to send from europa to fobos some corpues using the ripline full power from a bullet jump :V

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Damn, some those suggestions are terrible. She needs buffs: some team utility, some extra synergy of abilities, not a neutering "rework". Ripline is the most satisfying movement ability in the game. It need buffs and tweaks to be viable in new parkour (make it faster, decrease cost, improve range, auto-leap over obstacles, do not pull enemies) but I'd rather have Valkyr stuck forever in her current state than turn her into another boring tankframe. Especially considering how underwhelming or even bad reworks often are.

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On 2019-11-11 at 3:34 AM, Kefirno said:

Damn, some those suggestions are terrible. She needs buffs: some team utility, some extra synergy of abilities, not a neutering "rework". Ripline is the most satisfying movement ability in the game. It need buffs and tweaks to be viable in new parkour (make it faster, decrease cost, improve range, auto-leap over obstacles, do not pull enemies) but I'd rather have Valkyr stuck forever in her current state than turn her into another boring tankframe. Especially considering how underwhelming or even bad reworks often are.

I agree she does not need more tanking. She definitely needs more melee damage. And all 4 skills need some level of work. Ripline either removed or something added to it. Warcry, at a minimum becoming single action skill (no casting). Skills 3, double the range. Hysteria, needs remake from the ground-up. With damage remaining the same, and no combo multiplyer, it is dead. But it was nearly dead in before 2.6 anyway. 

 

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2 and 3 should be merged really to leave space for another more interesting ability.

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from what I see Valk got nerfed from the melee rework  - Condition Overload is nerfed, combo is no longer working as a plain multiplier.... sad

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On 2019-11-01 at 3:44 PM, -skimmer- said:

Actually there were some changes to her Ripline with update 26

Before there was fixed amount of upward momentum so you can go over the ledges, now it remember yours momentum and you can essentialy swing around corners as if on a rope. Good stuff.

which part in the changes mentioned this? and i need a video of that last bit.

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On 2019-11-11 at 4:34 AM, Kefirno said:

Damn, some those suggestions are terrible.

Why, considering they are straight up buffs with team utility and extra synergy?

On 2019-11-11 at 4:34 AM, Kefirno said:

Ripline is the most satisfying movement ability in the game.

It's a meme ability. Memes are a waste of an ability slot. They not useful. At higher levels, you're not wasting cast energy on jumping around over your enemies instead of actually killing them. What can you propose to make it better that is not already covered by your Operator? What utility, buff, or function does it bring that you don't already have? 

It's the exact same argument for Vauban's new Vector Pad. And look at who is pointing out the exact same flaws with regards to that ability:

 

On 2019-11-11 at 4:34 AM, Kefirno said:

I'd rather have Valkyr stuck forever in her current state than turn her into another boring tankframe. Especially considering how underwhelming or even bad reworks often are.

Wukong's rework is proof that most people prefer dynamic frames that encourage frequent casting and abilities that work well with one another. If you don't feel that way that's fine, but you would be an outlier.

23 hours ago, Kefirno said:

2 and 3 should be merged really to leave space for another more interesting ability.

Got concrete examples? Saying something should be "interesting" does nothing with for practical connotations.

 

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On 2019-11-03 at 8:50 PM, Alric said:

The change to Hysteria that you're proposing, IE damage reduction instead of invulnerabilty, is, contrary though it may seem, a massive buff for Valkyr due to her life stealing claws. Right now, infinite hysteria is possible but it takes actively changing between weapons to lose the invulnerability while keeping hysteria active in order to strategically take damage to get topped off with energy from Rage/Adrenaline but going Damage reduction is just an insane massive buff for Valkyr's hysteria since if nothing else changed she'd be able to infinitely stay hysterical from the damage she's taking, damage that is utterly irrelevant since she'd just be taking health anyway. I don't know if it's a good idea, or if even worse we'd have to trade the life drain from our claws in order to get it and frankly that's something I absolutely don't want to give up.

It would indeed be a buff, and I actually was thinking about having life steal removed or at least changed so it only activates on kill when thinking about the rework because it would be broken otherwise. I understand people don't want to see that go, but I argue that the price you're paying with current Hysteria is her inability to scale up, which is a lot more painful that losing lifesteal in my opinion.

This is also why I decided to propose for Boiler Rage to consume your life as well on cast alongside energy requirements and health loss being affected by efficiency in order to balance it. So if you don't kill, you die.

It would still not be an issue though considering the reworked Hysteria augement proposal would return reworked Hysteria to what we currently have, which includes the lifesteal aspect of it. Other than that, Amalgam Daikyu Target Acquired + Nikana Prime give you infinite lifesteal per hit, and the Nikana Prime is also a lot stronger than Valkyr's claws in the new system thanks to them reaching red crits and 100% status with Blood Rush + Weeping wounds for a hybrid CO/Crit damage build, which are mods Valkyr's claws can't use (Other than CO).

Check the video I posted after your post showing the reworked Venka Prime. It shows just how bad Hysteria damage is.

Edited by Jarriaga
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7 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

It would indeed be a buff, and I actually was thinking about having life steal removed or at least changed so it only activates on kill when thinking about the rework because it would be broken otherwise. I understand people don't want to see that go, but I argue that the price you're paying with current Hysteria is her inability to scale up, which is a lot more painful that losing lifesteal in my opinion.

This is also why I decided to propose for Boiler Rage to consume your life as well on cast alongside energy requirements and health loss being affected by efficiency in order to balance it. So if you don't kill, you die.

It would still not be an issue though considering the reworked Hysteria augement proposal would return reworked Hysteria to what we currently have, which includes the lifesteal aspect of it. Other than that, Amalgam Daikyu Target Acquired + Nikana Prime give you infinite lifesteal per hit, and the Nikana Prime is also a lot stronger than Valkyr's claws in the new system thanks to them reaching red crits and 100% status with Blood Rush + Weeping wounds for a hybrid CO/Crit damage build, which are mods Valkyr's claws can't use (Other than CO).

Check the video I posted after your post showing the reworked Venka Prime. It shows just how bad Hysteria damage is.

Honestly, I do not care if they remove the 5% healing. If it, or the invincibility, are the obstacle against buffing Valkyr damage, they should go. There are enough tanks, many of which are better than Valkyr. It would be much better if she offers solid melee damage, instead of being bogged down with redundant, outdated and obsolete tools. If she would specialize in melee damage, that would be a unique specialty that give her a niche and viability. Right now she is a redundant tank with not much else.

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Valkyr got a small indirect buff yesterday after Steel mods were buffed. Her claws now reach 187.5% crit when using Sacrificial Steel + Sacrificial Pressure for the bonus, so she's doing very frequent orange crits.

Still unable to compete with Venka Prime though. That 10% base status and inability to use Weeping Wounds hits a roadblock vs. heavily armored enemies.

Edited by Jarriaga

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I've tested a Valkyr build with "rage" mod and Vazarin instead of Zenurik as focus school (for Vazarin dash). rage managed to keep my energy up and vazarin dash provided the damage immunity needed to cast warcry, rush into mod aggro, etc. And it was even usefull against nullifiers (which hysteria is not).

so with "normal melee" doing more damage than her exalted and Vazarin providing a good alternative for immunity, Valkyr has a few good points appart from her 2 and fashion frame.

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On 2019-11-21 at 2:46 AM, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

so with "normal melee" doing more damage than her exalted and Vazarin providing a good alternative for immunity, Valkyr has a few good points appart from her 2 and fashion frame.

Which is why she's a one trick pony.

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i play him always with unairu or madurai schools, you dont need vazarin to heal you and you never need more than rage/ha to keep your energy pool 

En 21/11/2019 a las 7:46, MonsterOfMyOwn dijo:

I've tested a Valkyr build with "rage" mod and Vazarin instead of Zenurik as focus school (for Vazarin dash). rage managed to keep my energy up and vazarin dash provided the damage immunity needed to cast warcry, rush into mod aggro, etc. And it was even usefull against nullifiers (which hysteria is not).

so with "normal melee" doing more damage than her exalted and Vazarin providing a good alternative for immunity, Valkyr has a few good points appart from her 2 and fashion frame.

My valkyr build

Try this, you just need energy to replenish with histerya or just to scream one time casually

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After the updates, Hysteria is okay. With sacrificial steel its damage went up significantly. Still, outside of needing invulnerability to cheese content, you are much better off with melee weapons.

Valkyr is still mostly... 700 armor + warcry, with occasional invulnerability to cheese content. Sadly, Valkyr strongest game remains fashion.

Edited by (PS4)thegarada
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On 2019-10-12 at 12:35 AM, NoLazyShadow said:

I disagree. Ripline was desinged around Parlour 1.0, back in a days when we had stamina, limited mobility options(no bullet jump and operator).

u can stilll get around places a single bullet jump, and aim guild cant get u, and for those that complain about the range, its enough, it also rips enemies off turrets

the main issue, is ur not pulled the full distance of the ripline, thats  the only issue i have with it

i main valkyr and if its removed, il quit using my 2 umbral forma valkyr prime....  

i do however think the base duration of warcry should be longer and the armor buff  be made to take into account the current armor and not base armor, and effected by power str still,, that and the invincibility from hysteria should be removed, and the hysteria augment be built in, with a new augment replacing the old one

Edited by (PS4)Spider_Enigma
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35 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

the main issue, is ur not pulled the full distance of the ripline, thats  the only issue i have with it

THIS!

Ripline has its pull strengths reverse of what they should be.
Ripline on a enemy chucks them at full strength without killing the momentum it causes at any point.
Ripline on Valkyr kills your momentum around 1/3 of the way in (well maybe closer to 2/5ths but w/e).

What Ripline should do is pull valkyr towards whatever (maybe at a slightly lower angle/while pulled in the direction the camera orientation should also influence the path) at full strength without killing momentum while enemies should have their momentum killed 1/3rd of the way in so that they land if not right infront of valkyr, then at least within functional clawing/claw jump/slide attack range.

Tho IMO her ripline augment should just give it base passive efficiency (like mag and oberons augments give passive single ability stats) or a flat +4s duration on its combo timer AND more importantly, its on ripline use effect should be that it resets your jump capacity (or at least gives you +1 extra jump), as if you touched a wall/latched.

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2 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

THIS!

Ripline has its pull strengths reverse of what they should be.
Ripline on a enemy chucks them at full strength without killing the momentum it causes at any point.
Ripline on Valkyr kills your momentum around 1/3 of the way in (well maybe closer to 2/5ths but w/e).

What Ripline should do is pull valkyr towards whatever (maybe at a slightly lower angle/while pulled in the direction the camera orientation should also influence the path) at full strength without killing momentum while enemies should have their momentum killed 1/3rd of the way in so that they land if not right infront of valkyr, then at least within functional clawing/claw jump/slide attack range.

Tho IMO her ripline augment should just give it base passive efficiency (like mag and oberons augments give passive single ability stats) or a flat +4s duration on its combo timer AND more importantly, its on ripline use effect should be that it resets your jump capacity (or at least gives you +1 extra jump), as if you touched a wall/latched.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!

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