Whether you like the reworks showcased today or not...

[IIDMOII]

7 hours ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Criticism is fine as long as it’s constructive and respectful.

Aside from that, I’m quite interested to see the reworks of Vauban and Ember later in today’s devstream.

I tend to disagree. Some of the best criticism can be based in anger and frustration. Regardless of how it's presented.

Also, historically, the squeskiest wheels get the grease.

If this was a charity I could see your point. But it's not. It's a business.

When's the last time you complained about a S#&$ty meal and had some $&*^head tell you to "be constructive"? Only in the game industry.....apparently if you work in games......you have no backbone.

If the community managers or devs can't stand some heat, then it's time to hire someone who can. Every other goods and service provider has some level of accountability except games. If youre a game consumer you have to tip toe across eggshells so as to not hurt anyone's special feelings.

In my 30+ years of gaming I've seen the term "constructive" twisted and abused on every game forum ever. It's basically a convenient blanket excuse for forum mods to squelch angry customers.

Edited October 4, 2019 by IIDMOII

[trst]

16 minutes ago, TheArcSet said:

The thing is, Ember is currently pretty much the best frame to just run through 3 exterminate invasions, or fissures  (sub lv50) and get them done quickly.
That's being thrown out the window, so if she's picked up now, it will  be for a very different role.

Apart from farming efficiency, I can't really say encouraging more active play is bad per-se, though demanding it may be a bit harsh if they don't offer an augment to let her still fulfil her current role.

However, it's a bit worrying that only her grenade and 'blast all in the visor' abilities deal direct damage, with the rest being more DOT; especially with her passive, that by it's nature consumes itself when used, it seems like getting the most from her abilities requires you to not kill enemies and if they can't mange to scale that so it's usable both in normal and endless/high_lv missions, then I can see her getting less use than she currently does.

Not sure what you're on about. While she is losing the constant passive damage she's getting loads of free power strength and armor stripping plus heat procs are being changed to reduce armor and stack like other dot status procs. Even if her damage gets loaded into the dot portion each proc is going to accumulate into more and more damage.

Also her current "roll" of clearing low level missions can be achieved by Equinox or anyone using an Ignis just as well. And her changes should give her plenty of viability in high level to endless missions which will open her up to far more players than "afk through early to mid starchart" has done for her.

Edited October 4, 2019 by trst

[TheArcSet]

45 minutes ago, trst said:

Not sure what you're on about. While she is losing the constant passive damage she's getting loads of free power strength and armor stripping plus heat procs are being changed to reduce armor and stack like other dot status procs. Even if her damage gets loaded into the dot portion each proc is going to accumulate into more and more damage.

Also her current "roll" of clearing low level missions can be achieved by Equinox or anyone using an Ignis just as well. And her changes should give her plenty of viability in high level to endless missions which will open her up to far more players than "afk through early to mid starchart" has done for her.

As to what I'm on about, I meant that once you buffed and protected her with her 2&3, your main ways to deal damage are just a single target mini-grenade, that even if it's sped up, is currently her least used, least effective ability and then her new 'shoot' everything in the visor' ability'. Unless you can spam her 4, that limits her actual damage output.

Her passive seems impractical in most situations, as you both have to keep enemies, burning, alive, close and in front of you, then 4 can make use of the buff.

It seems like she's being turned from a kill frame into a damage overtime frame, but without a propagation effect like Saryn.
To get the most from her abilities, like her wildfire effect, you have to not kill enemies, which never goes across well and might limit her to missions where she just can't make immediate kills.

As for Equinox, you need a lot of farming and corrupted mods to imitate an un-forma-ed Ember, which will also limit what else you can do; for an Ignis, sorry, that's in no way a remote comparison.

I'd say Ember's currently good, though not the best, for 2/3rds of the starchart, you just have to use her 2&3 as well as world on fire, as I said, up to around lv50 max.

Edited October 4, 2019 by TheArcSet

[trst]

2 minutes ago, TheArcSet said:

As to what I'm on about, I meant that once you buffed and protected her with her 2&3, your main ways to deal damage are just a single target mini-grenade, that even if it's sped up, is currently her least used, least effective ability and then her new 'shoot' everything in the visor' ability'. Unless you can spam her 4, that limit's her actual damage output.

Her passive seems impractical in most situations, as you both have to keep enemies, burning, alive, close and in front of you, then 4 can make use of the buff.

It seems like she's being turned from a kill frame into a damage overtime frame, but without a propagation effect like Saryn.
To get the most from her abilities, like her wildfire effect, you have to not kill enemies, which never goes across well and might limit her to missions where she just can't make immediate kills.

As for Equinox, you need a lot of farming and corrupted mods to imitate an un-forma-ed Ember, which will also limit what else you can do; for an Ignis, sorry, that's in no way a remote comparison.

I'd say Ember's currently good, though not the best, for have 2/3rds of the starchart, you just have to use her 2&3 as well as world on fire.

Except she's loaded with armor reduction between heat procs and her new 3 which makes both her abilities and weapons deal more damage. And with her 4 causing enemies to spread fire damage around (adding to her passive) she'll still have that passive damage and if enemies die too fast to make use of the dot then you didn't need the damage anyways. While if enemies aren't in range for your passive then you're not in immediate enough danger to need more damage while if they are in range you'll have an easier time killing them.

She was always meant to be a kill frame, which she was before new frames powercreeped her into oblivion. She also does have a propagation effect with her new 4 and again if enemies die too fast to make use of it then the effect is outright unnecessary for those levels. It's even a better situation than Saryn where if she begins killing enemies too fast she's losing potentiality damage for the rest of a mission.

Equinox doesn't require some min-maxed build to trivialize low level missions. While Ember actually does need more of those types of mods either to mitigate the range loss or offset the energy cost of recasting WoF to maintain efficiently in said missions. Plus any type of build made to make Equinox good for low level enemies would still be good for high level ones due to her built in scaling.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

8 hours ago, Dr.Tursko said:

I wish they would too. I personally just want his  2 and 3 nerfed into the ground. Put some challenge in the eidolons again.

That wouldn't stop people from speeding through eidolons regardless.

[Kaotyke]

17 hours ago, MakubexKido said:

im gonna bet my 100 galliums its gonna be another crap rework ala  nyx+titania from last time
1 great rework ( saryn,nezha,wukong )   >>>>>    a couple of sh!t reworks

So, about those Galliums....

[JackHargreav]

By far I think the reworks we saw were mostly successful with the community. Of course we will get some "they ruined mah ember" posts probably but that's just how it goes on the forums.

Also i'm a little bit sad that they didn't say more about Titania. She's getting a damage reduction finally and that is great even if It's just 50%. Since Aviator exists. Combine those two and you get the sweet 90% dmg reduction, and combine that with reduced enemy accuracy. With that much survivability she's gonna be actually usable for high level missions.

I'm really excited about the incoming reworks and tweaks and I hope we'll get other frames reworked too. Maybe they will take a look at good old Zeph-zeph and give her some well needed qol changes. And maybe we will finally get that deluxe skin too. 

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

1 minute ago, JackHargreav said:

By far I think the reworks we saw were mostly successful with the community. Of course we will get some "they ruined mah ember" posts probably but that's just how it goes on the forums.

Also i'm a little bit sad that they didn't say more about Titania. She's getting a damage reduction finally and that is great even if It's just 50%. Since Aviator exists. Combine those two and you get the sweet 90% dmg reduction, and combine that with reduced enemy accuracy. With that much survivability she's gonna be actually usable for high level missions.

I'm really excited about the incoming reworks and tweaks and I hope we'll get other frames reworked too. Maybe they will take a look at good old Zeph-zeph and give her some well needed qol changes. And maybe we will finally get that deluxe skin too. 

I think Vauban's is a little underwhelming because I don't like the new Minelayer any more than I like the old Minelayer, but I like his other three abilities and that's more than I can say for some other frames, so that is an improvement. I'm kind of hoping Vauban Prime will be the next to get unvaulted to celebrate his upgrade, I'd like to get him for myself. I hope these reworks launch soon, consoles still haven't gotten Gauss's buffs yet so I'm feeling impatient.

[MakubexKido]

2 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

So, about those Galliums....

eyy not so fast, we gotta wait for the rework to be added in game first
but man, vauban rework looks amazing

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

23 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

they need to get his rework spot-on or we won't hear the end of it from Booben's followers.

Yeah. All two of them.

[Kaotyke]

14 minutes ago, MakubexKido said:

eyy not so fast, we gotta wait for the rework to be added in game first
but man, vauban rework looks amazing

Dont backpedal dude.

Prepare for a visit to Uranus because you will need to replace to Galliums and Uranus is full of them.

[o0Despair0o]

23 hours ago, Dr.Tursko said:

underused

*unused

 

Nobody uses them.

Edited October 5, 2019 by o0Despair0o
/inb4 "I use them" comment

[MacKerris]

I was unimpressed. I really don't like the trend where we have to micromanage a little dial while playing the game. In my case both of these frames will stay in the closet.

[TalesNexus]

On 2019-10-04 at 8:01 PM, Dr.Tursko said:

Remember to not be rude with your critisim because we should be greatful DE is reworking not one, but TWO underused frames. I was never a fan of both frames, but I'm hopeful the fans of them will enjoy the rework like Wukong's

Just like you, even I don't use the ember or vauban frames for a very long time rather lying in my ship covered with dust. After seeing on the devstream, I'm genuinely amazed and delighted to see the reworks, let's see how it unfolds in the upcoming future update and hope, it's different this time for good.

About the criticism, you reminded me of upcoming dark fate movie in terminator series and giving me the heebies-jeebies while thinking about it alone yet I am still going to watch it upon release in the cinema. In other words, I won't crucify for something which is a flux in terms of design implementation on a yearly basis based on the feedback's which takes place ceaselessly in this game as we all obviously know about it. 

P.S. Sorry for a bit off-topic. 

[Vesciroth]

On 2019-10-04 at 10:52 AM, Dr.Tursko said:

Ive only heard of QS, and she sounds like a toxic piece of S#&$ from what I've watched. Never a good word from her comes out for warframe or DE. If I were them, I'd cut ties with QS immediately.

QS makes some of the most obviously sarcastic content on the internet. It's about as transparent as you can get. She's probably by far the biggest partner right now who doesn't make videos whining about the game or just straight up reading the patch notes out loud (I love you Potato, but it's pretty clear you've been pressed for ideas lately lol). It's nobody's fault but your own if you have all the comedic awareness of a 6 year old.

[Teljaxx]

Vauban is still a trap master, but now he is more mobile. Sounds good to me. And Ember might finally actually be the lord of the incendiary apocalypse I always wished she was. 🔥 BURN STUFF! 🔥

The main problem I see is how many parts of these reworks focus on armor stripping. That means that DE is not planning on actually fixing the insanely broken armor scaling, and is instead content to simply cover it with little band-aids until people stop complaining. Ignoring the source of the problem and treating nothing but the symptoms is not going to fix anything in the long run.

[TheArcSet]

On 2019-10-05 at 12:06 AM, trst said:

Except between heat procs and her new 3 which makes both her abilities and weapons deal more damage. And with her 4 causing enemies to spread fire damage around (adding to her passive) she'll still have that passive damage and if enemies die too fast to make use of the dot then you didn't need the damage anyways. While if enemies aren't in range for your passive then you're not in immediate enough danger to need more damage while if they are in range you'll have an easier time killing them.

She was always meant to be a kill frame, which she was before new frames powercreeped her into oblivion. She also does have a propagation effect with her new 4 and again if enemies die too fast to make use of it then the effect is outright unnecessary for those levels. It's even a better situation than Saryn where if she begins killing enemies too fast she's losing potentiality damage for the rest of a mission.

Equinox doesn't require some min-maxed build to trivialize low level missions. While Ember actually does need more of those types of mods either to mitigate the range loss or offset the energy cost of recasting WoF to maintain efficiently in said missions. Plus would still be good for high level ones due to .

Except you don't really seem to have read the 1st paragraph you quoted, or the statement about what kind of frame she may be being turned into, which you spoke over, but didn't refute or otherwise  give reasoning for your counter view.

I said that after she's loaded with damage reduction and buffs, she only really has one decent ability to deal damage with, which being an ultimate, probably won't be spamable, lowering her DPS; further more, unless her meteors are too weak to kill her reduced targets, she won't get any wildfire effects, or proc propagation.

Also, the new burning procs aren't an Ember thing, they're a heat thing, any frame can benefit from them, from weapons that are nearly all better than Ember's current 1st ability.

So, it looks like, she's going from a frame that was defined by damage output and kills, to a DOT frame, without a great proc spreading method, that needs to not kill enemies to get the most out of her abilities.

'any type of build made to make Equinox good for low level enemies' Exactly, because in it's passive state, Maim deals less than half World_On_Fire's damage and its burst requires you to hang around while charging up, where as Accelerant, just multiples the damage instantly. I'm not really sure what you mean by 'her built in scaling'; if you meant bleeding by that 7*57 damage, over six seconds, won't scale with health, even if it'll ignore armour.

There are comparable abilities, but they aren't remotely equivalent.

At this point this is still all moot, before we really know all of Ember's new mechanics, but from the summary we've has so far I do think there is reason to be concerned that she'll trade damage reduction for most of her damage dealing power and just saying "play Equinox instead" is hardly a positive reaction to Ember's current role and play-style being erased.

Edited October 12, 2019 by TheArcSet