Jump to content
[DE]Connor

Vauban & Ember Dev Workshop

Recommended Posts

The ember 3 rd ability should work ( like rhino 4 th ) with any debbufs for enemies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have one gripe with this. It might sound overly harsh or nitpicky, but whatever, it's worth saying.

Holding an ability button to do something other than what happens when you tap it is pretty clunky.
This applies mostly to vaubans 2, but unfortunately also partially to embers 1 now.

If you have default keybindings, you have to briefly take your finger off the W key to cycle vaubans 2, so the idea of dynamically cycling between and using different abilities, in combat, with one button seems ridiculous.

And yes, I can alleviate the problem significantly by also binding 2 to a button on the side of my mouse, but even if I do that it's still annoying that cycle and cast are on the same button.

I want the hold action to happen when I tap a different button, or a button in addition to the ability button, and then the cast can still just have a longer animation, as long as I don't need to hold the button.

The best solution i can think of would be to use aim down sights as the differentiator. if I press 2 on vauban without ADS, it cycles. If I do it with ADS it casts. If I press 1 on ember with ADS it's the hold cast, and if I do it without ADS it's the tap cast.
That seems like it would be way more dynamic.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Senguash said:

I have one gripe with this. It might sound overly harsh or nitpicky, but whatever, it's worth saying.

Holding an ability button to do something other than what happens when you tap it is pretty clunky.
This applies mostly to vaubans 2, but unfortunately also partially to embers 1 now.

If you have default keybindings, you have to briefly take your finger off the W key to cycle vaubans 2, so the idea of dynamically cycling between and using different abilities, in combat, with one button seems ridiculous.

...

The best solution i can think of would be to use aim down sights as the differentiator. if I press 2 on vauban without ADS, it cycles. If I do it with ADS it casts. If I press 1 on ember with ADS it's the hold cast, and if I do it without ADS it's the tap cast.
That seems like it would be way more dynamic.

 

Hold to cast works smooth as silk on a controller and doesn't disrupt any movement, this game really should not be played with a keyboard. Aim to cast would be much more awkward, especially if primarily using melee, and while it might work with Vauban or Wisp, it makes less sense with Ember or Gauss and limits the potential for future dynamic reworks or abilities by forcing reliance on aiming - when abilities are often more for crowd control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vauban rework sounds nice, but I never played him, so I can not really judge it.

I am happy to hear Ember gets a rework, but I'm a bit biased about it.

  • new passive sounds really nice and contrary to the old one useable ^^
  • no change for Fireball is okay, but the charge still clashes with her Augment and is way too long
  • not sure why Accelerant is gone and I am not sold on Immolation, sounds more like a passive then an active Ability 
    • the explosion needs to be really big, if it costs all our Energy
    • the visual is improvable
  • change for Fireblast is nice, but please stay with the old animaton (or use the old one for her Inferno)
  • Inferno sounds good, but the animation is ridicules and the ignition effect could be better

Hope we also get a better deluxe skin for her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just realized there appears to be a cap on the armor buff (I didn't actually listen to the devstream or any of the audio since I didn't have headphones at the time, so maybe this was addressed). Is there a way this armor could scale with mods, or maybe a larger cap if any at all? damage reduction through armor is an exponential graph, and at 1000 armor vauban has about 75% damage resist, not getting up to 90%, like we're seeing with a lot of damage reduction abilities these days, until 3000+ armor. It would be great to see higher rewards for a defensive ability that is much harder to acquire than pressing 3 on nezha.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate everything about this Ember rework.

Everything.

The new passive isn't bad, but we just got a mod that lets you safely and reliably use Ember's current passive. And 35% Power Strength with assurance you will never be out of Energy is a very good passive now that we can finally use it.

Fireball is an abject failure of a move, as it has always been. Unless you headshot with it following Accelerant on a Power Strength build, it's garbage (and you are not headshotting reliably with that slow casting/moving projectile).

You gave us back Overheat, but you got rid of Accelerant, the damage multiplier with the animation-overriding stun that hits regardless of LoS.

You killed Fire Blast stacking. Now I'm not going to front, I didn't run a Duration/Strength Ember, this isn't my horse. But I've played with Ember mains that did, and they'd essentially set down a stack of 5-10 rings at a choke point and then LoS, creating a black hole of death that would draw enemies in and overwhelm with with sheer numbers (and if they did live, it's a Strength build, Accelerant, now they don't).

And yes, I hate that you finally killed World on Fire. I don't know what it is about Ember specifically that makes people lose their minds over wide-range passive damage, but Equinox has been able to do it since inception, and Hildryn was just created this year.

And what makes this so infuriating, is that it isn't a bad rework (the Fire Blast thing is similar to what I suggested 4 years ago). It's not a bad skill set (aside from Fireball), but the game has continued to advance since Ember's first rework in such a way that made her kit easier to use. Syndicates were added with new and better ways to manage Energy. Augments turned her from a damage frame with light CC to adding buffing to her kit. A hundred different methods have been added to shred enemy Armor. New mods were added to heighten Power Strength builds. As long as you could hit around 200% Power Strength on Ember with a decent range, her kit was fine. She could Sortie. I carried others regularly.

But the worst part? None of this addresses the actual issue with Ember that any Ember main could have told you has existed since Eximus enemies were added.

It's not Armor. It's Fire damage resist auras and Ancient Healer resist auras (or, God help you, a Caustic Ancient). No frame in the game is shutdown so completely in the presence of a single one of these, and in high level play there's never just one.

Not that any of this even matters. You guys already reworked Ember.

Hildryn has a mode switch 1 with proper damage scaling, like how Fireball should have always worked.

Pillage functions as a damage multiplier that also restores "energy" and eHP.

Haven is a weaker World on Fire, but with a less resisted damage-type. That also protects allies.

Aegis Storm lets her safely navigate/stun enemies in narrow, high-damage corridors.

And her passive is even a survival mechanic.

So go ahead. All Ember needed was a short duration confuse on Accelerant or Fire Blast to break damage resist auras, but do whatever you want. Just know you didn't solve anything.

  • Like 3
  • Woah 1
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This, overall, seems like yet another nerf hammer on Ember. I have standard Ember and Ember Prime and I only ever use her when helping people run Defections. The reason being, She has been nerfed into oblivion. It makes me sad. She was once a flaming goddess of death. Now she is a redheaded stepchild. I hope I am nicely surprised, but I am very skeptical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-10-16 at 8:21 AM, Proslackernifty said:

She won't wipe a map

If the damage boost from her 2 is high enough, she might be able to. That's the thing, unconditional damage in the same vein as Saryn or Mesa cannot be reproduced, and if we want to have frames that can actually scale their damage up for higher level content, we will have to deal with the conditions set before us. Gauss can Redline -> Blast to remove all enemy armour, giving him some viability, and if that fire meter provides enough power, maybe Ember can do enough damage to be a legitimate option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Colyeses said:

If the damage boost from her 2 is high enough, she might be able to. That's the thing, unconditional damage in the same vein as Saryn or Mesa cannot be reproduced, and if we want to have frames that can actually scale their damage up for higher level content, we will have to deal with the conditions set before us. Gauss can Redline -> Blast to remove all enemy armour, giving him some viability, and if that fire meter provides enough power, maybe Ember can do enough damage to be a legitimate option.

With the abilities I saw in the devstream I don't think she'll have any place in sortie or arbitration.  That's what I really want, I don't even want her to wipe out maps like Saryn or Mesa.  The main problem is that her meter contradicts her own abilities, and she has no ability that offers regen, buffing, or utility.  I'm just picturing Ember in a situation with a high meter being forced to use her third ability to decrease it.  Now that the enemies are spread all over the map, her fourth ability will be useless.

That's how I think of it, at least.  While we are forced to use her third ability I see the new Ember as annoying to play and annoying to play alongside.

Edited by Proslackernifty
I made the auto-censor mad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, (XB1)Th3BelovedSaint said:

This, overall, seems like yet another nerf hammer on Ember. I have standard Ember and Ember Prime and I only ever use her when helping people run Defections. The reason being, She has been nerfed into oblivion. It makes me sad. She was once a flaming goddess of death. Now she is a redheaded stepchild. I hope I am nicely surprised, but I am very skeptical.

Ember can't even kill lvl40 enemies with abilities alone, how is she the flaming goddess of death? Now she can kill lvl60+ enemies, remove their armor, has damage reduction, and has more reliable CC with her ultimate. The armor reduction can replace Accelerant damage wise, because 5x heat damage versus anything with armor is way worse than raw damage on flesh. 

Don't tell me that WoF is OP. A max range build has a 21m aura that has a cap of how many enemies she can affect and deals 150 damage per tick on lvl40butchers. If you use 214% power strenght and 160% range against lvl200 butchers it goes to 12m and 451 damage per tick, with Accelerant it goes to 2,255 per tick. 

 New ultimate? A Garuda-like ultimate, so as far as you can see without limit on affected enemies, that with 214% strenght and by itself against lvl200 butchers deals 2800 damage on a split second and then 624 damage per tick for like 25 seconds, not to mention stunlock and the ability to spread to new enemies. So it would take around 6 seconds just for WoF to deal the same initial damage to the same butcher. but by that time the new ultimate dealt  3,744 EXTRA damage. With her 2 on 90% she deals 2800 on impact and 2300 per tick, which still surpasses WoF with Accerant.

By the way, I did count damage reduction from enemies.

Edited by HolySeraphin
  • Woah 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just put this on the Vauban feedback forum, but thought it pertinent to drop it here just kus' I can.

Hi everyone!

Bit late to this but I feel as though I would be a bit off-put if I didn't at least put my penny in on this, seeing as I loved my time with him when he was introduced when we still had T4 Defense missions.

As a disclaimer, we have not been given all the details of exactly how his new kit works, this is just feedback to what has been given us.  If it was an older build to present to us the basics of what he is going to be then I’m sure this will either be irrelevant or just another of the dozens of dreamed up rework ideas that will never see the light.

Regardless, here we go.

As for what DE has done, thank you.  The orbital strike and merging of Bastille and vortex, as well as the overhaul for Tesla, make a lot of sense and helps bring him closer to what is needed for the current meta. (opinion)

That being said, its highly disappointing the lack of imagination and forethought in bring Minelayer into its own (as shown during the devstream). 

So, for abilities 1, 3 and 4, I say sure, looks like it could be good. but let’s see what Minelayer could be.  Essentially, it’s his utility slot.  We have cheap mobile CC for around Vaub-man with Tesla, a scaling one-shot nuke with a (somewhat comical) windup in orbital strike, and a large area denial with synergies and buffs/debuffs for a larger price.  What we don't have is a form of self-sustain or cheaper alternative for smaller pockets of area denial.

So we keep the ability wheel concept, but bring it in line with other frame abilities that help in utility or support.  There are three concepts that stick out in my mind, those being area denial, point defense, and recovery.

Now, lets tackle them one at a time, with the first thing being area denial. 

Ionization Field Emitter (IFE):  This deployed device emits a 10-ft radius field of electrostatic energies that disrupts shields, disables drones, Slows armored hostiles, and jams weapons of hostiles within the field. This ability does no damage and has a base duration of 5/10/15/20 seconds. 

Next is point defense, along with some sustainability worked into it.

Ion Nail Defense System (INDS): Deploys a device that will target nearby hostiles randomly, dealing puncture damage and having a 60% chance to proc. an ionized condition for 1/2/3/4 seconds. Any drones affected by ionized will be disabled, and any nullifier bubble hit by this ability will have a 20% chance of being destroyed. Any enemies that die while ionized have a 25% chance to drop an energy orb.  Its range is 5/7/10/15 meters, and will last 5/10/15/20 seconds, firing projectiles at a rate of 7.00 per second. (as for the damage, IDK, DE can work that out)

Finally we have the recovery, or as I like to call it…

Resist and Recovery dispenser (R&RD):  Deploys a device that will attach tendrils of energy to allies within 10/14/18/22 meters.  When under the effect of this device, they will regain life over time at a rate of 20/30/40/50 per second.  If the ally kills a hostile while being within range, their reload speed will be increased by 5% and gain 5% damage resistance.  This buff will remain until the end of this skills duration and will stack to a maximum of 50%.  when the duration is up, the effect will degrade by 1% every second.

Now let’s talk synergy: As of what we have been shown, only Bastille and orbital strike seem to have a form of synergy with his kit.  Tesla is upgraded but doesn’t seem to really mesh with the level needed for being able to affect either of these skills.  This leaves minelayer to need to synergize with tesla.  Here is my proposed concept to have these two interact with each other:

Overcharge:  A deployed tesla can attach itself to a deployed minelayer, giving it additional properties but at a cost.  When attached, the duration of the minelayer ability is halved, and when the duration runs out, explodes.  The following affects are generated when a Tesla overcharges a minelayer:

IFE Overcharged: All hostiles within range are affected by an electric proc. every 1 second.  All ranged attacks that pass through the field are negated. When the duration is up, causes an explosion dealing 250/500/750/1000 electrical damage and blinds enemies within the ability’s range.

INDS Overcharge: Hostiles damaged by this ability will suffer an electric proc. and the ionized energy orb drop chance will increase to 40%. When the duration is up, causes an explosion that deals 250/500/750/1000 blast damage and a forced blast proc. to enemies within the ability's range.

R&RD Overcharge: The health regained is doubled and the cap for the buff is increased to 75%.  When the duration is up, a wave of energy will be unleashed, traveling up 30 meters, restoring 250/500/750/1000 shield.  Any shield gained passed max is halved and added as overshield.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, HolySeraphin said:

Ember can't even kill lvl40 enemies with abilities alone, how is she the flaming goddess of death? Now she can kill lvl60+ enemies, remove their armor, has damage reduction, and has more reliable CC with her ultimate. The armor reduction can replace Accelerant damage wise, because 5x heat damage versus anything with armor is way worse than raw damage on flesh. 

Don't tell me that WoF is OP. A max range build has a 21m aura that has a cap of how many enemies she can affect and deals 150 damage per tick on lvl40butchers. If you use 214% power strenght and 160% range against lvl200 butchers it goes to 12m and 451 damage per tick, with Accelerant it goes to 2,255 per tick. 

 New ultimate? A Garuda-like ultimate, so as far as you can see without limit on affected enemies, that with 214% strenght and by itself against lvl200 butchers deals 2800 damage on a split second and then 624 damage per tick for like 25 seconds, not to mention stunlock and the ability to spread to new enemies. So it would take around 6 seconds just for WoF to deal the same initial damage to the same butcher. but by that time the new ultimate dealt  3,744 EXTRA damage. With her 2 on 90% she deals 2800 on impact and 2300 per tick, which still surpasses WoF with Accerant.

By the way, I did count damage reduction from enemies.

Actually, I was referring to Ember, pre-nerf. As I said, I hope I am nicely surprised. Time will tell. The re-works of late have all been well done. I hope the trend continues. Thank you for the reply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Truearcaneist said:

Just put this on the Vauban feedback forum, but thought it pertinent to drop it here just kus' I can.

Hi everyone!

Bit late to this but I feel as though I would be a bit off-put if I didn't at least put my penny in on this, seeing as I loved my time with him when he was introduced when we still had T4 Defense missions.

As a disclaimer, we have not been given all the details of exactly how his new kit works, this is just feedback to what has been given us.  If it was an older build to present to us the basics of what he is going to be then I’m sure this will either be irrelevant or just another of the dozens of dreamed up rework ideas that will never see the light.

Regardless, here we go.

As for what DE has done, thank you.  The orbital strike and merging of Bastille and vortex, as well as the overhaul for Tesla, make a lot of sense and helps bring him closer to what is needed for the current meta. (opinion)

That being said, its highly disappointing the lack of imagination and forethought in bring Minelayer into its own (as shown during the devstream). 

So, for abilities 1, 3 and 4, I say sure, looks like it could be good. but let’s see what Minelayer could be.  Essentially, it’s his utility slot.  We have cheap mobile CC for around Vaub-man with Tesla, a scaling one-shot nuke with a (somewhat comical) windup in orbital strike, and a large area denial with synergies and buffs/debuffs for a larger price.  What we don't have is a form of self-sustain or cheaper alternative for smaller pockets of area denial.

So we keep the ability wheel concept, but bring it in line with other frame abilities that help in utility or support.  There are three concepts that stick out in my mind, those being area denial, point defense, and recovery.

Now, lets tackle them one at a time, with the first thing being area denial. 

Ionization Field Emitter (IFE):  This deployed device emits a 10-ft radius field of electrostatic energies that disrupts shields, disables drones, Slows armored hostiles, and jams weapons of hostiles within the field. This ability does no damage and has a base duration of 5/10/15/20 seconds. 

Next is point defense, along with some sustainability worked into it.

Ion Nail Defense System (INDS): Deploys a device that will target nearby hostiles randomly, dealing puncture damage and having a 60% chance to proc. an ionized condition for 1/2/3/4 seconds. Any drones affected by ionized will be disabled, and any nullifier bubble hit by this ability will have a 20% chance of being destroyed. Any enemies that die while ionized have a 25% chance to drop an energy orb.  Its range is 5/7/10/15 meters, and will last 5/10/15/20 seconds, firing projectiles at a rate of 7.00 per second. (as for the damage, IDK, DE can work that out)

Finally we have the recovery, or as I like to call it…

Resist and Recovery dispenser (R&RD):  Deploys a device that will attach tendrils of energy to allies within 10/14/18/22 meters.  When under the effect of this device, they will regain life over time at a rate of 20/30/40/50 per second.  If the ally kills a hostile while being within range, their reload speed will be increased by 5% and gain 5% damage resistance.  This buff will remain until the end of this skills duration and will stack to a maximum of 50%.  when the duration is up, the effect will degrade by 1% every second.

Now let’s talk synergy: As of what we have been shown, only Bastille and orbital strike seem to have a form of synergy with his kit.  Tesla is upgraded but doesn’t seem to really mesh with the level needed for being able to affect either of these skills.  This leaves minelayer to need to synergize with tesla.  Here is my proposed concept to have these two interact with each other:

Overcharge:  A deployed tesla can attach itself to a deployed minelayer, giving it additional properties but at a cost.  When attached, the duration of the minelayer ability is halved, and when the duration runs out, explodes.  The following affects are generated when a Tesla overcharges a minelayer:

IFE Overcharged: All hostiles within range are affected by an electric proc. every 1 second.  All ranged attacks that pass through the field are negated. When the duration is up, causes an explosion dealing 250/500/750/1000 electrical damage and blinds enemies within the ability’s range.

INDS Overcharge: Hostiles damaged by this ability will suffer an electric proc. and the ionized energy orb drop chance will increase to 40%. When the duration is up, causes an explosion that deals 250/500/750/1000 blast damage and a forced blast proc. to enemies within the ability's range.

R&RD Overcharge: The health regained is doubled and the cap for the buff is increased to 75%.  When the duration is up, a wave of energy will be unleashed, traveling up 30 meters, restoring 250/500/750/1000 shield.  Any shield gained passed max is halved and added as overshield.

+1
It just shows how lazy Scott is...still going with the memes..
 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Phaeronimus said:

+1
It just shows how lazy Scott is...still going with the memes..
 

Thank you kind sir!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My main concern is that if a crowd is big enough, using any of her abilities with Immolation active will just force Ember to lose all of her energy, which will prevent players from capitalizing on the max value of the damage buff it gives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My big question for the Ember rework is, will anything be done to address the fact that Fireball loses its ability to charge when the Fireball Frenzy augment is equipped?

The change to damage buff Augments to allow them to cast in an area and affect the caster was great, but Ember is the only frame that actually lost something to that particular change and it kinda leaves Fireball feeling a bit limp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just hate that they got rid of her cool animation and replaced WoF with a generic fire mage meteors.

Also, DR is so boring. Not the worse, but it's a very boring ability. Practically makes you feel like you have to unnerf yourself when you get used to the damage reduction. 

Edited by Hypernaut1
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FINALLY I can use my old Ember Prime again! She has like 7 formas in her... XD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I mean, fireball could atleast be made to be a single version of inferno or like the dissic scaffold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All through I enjoy you DE trying to revive those two frames, but...

It really does requires exceptional mastery to elegantly and so easily ruin a whole frame known as Ember

Thanks alot, I am mad now

You had one job

Changes on Vauban are just slightly making him more interesting to play, they do look cool tho

Well anyway, lets see how new "old" frames will work

Edited by HunterCat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im gonna miss the full armour removal of vaubans i liked it  a lot, I also cant believe Vauban is getting a satalite laser I mentioned this to a group in warframe and they said it was to op now  I wish I could rub it in their faces.

as an engineer I also had an idea that Vauban would create a temporary mecha for himself lolz

I really want the armour strip to be there I was going to combo it with my veldt gun plus viral damage I hope it still stays

Edited by hefirey
wanted to add some more details
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just love the fact that Scott was gone,pulling of a D&D...
So I guess,no changes/improvements for Vauban considering the last reveal....Memelayer stays..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-10-16 at 3:21 AM, Proslackernifty said:

If we can't have another Saryn or Mesa, I'm fine with that.  But Ember, after her rework, isn't going to fit in anywhere.  Gauss, for example, doesn't fit in anywhere.  He doesn't buff, doesn't tank, doesn't do good damage, and he has an annoying meter.  That's the direction Ember is heading.  She'll be annoying to play while providing nothing to the squad.  She won't wipe a map, she'll annoy people by pushing them back with her third ability, and she won't be tanky (still).  So no one is going to play her unless they want to troll their squad with her third ability.  None of her new abilities stand out as class defining.  She'll just collect more dust and wait for another rework that may never happen.

"Won't wipe map". Will be able to wipe map with her 4, if I did my math correctly it should be able to kill lvl 80 lancers in a few seconds and still kill a bit beyond that with the damage over time.

"Won't be a tank", potential 90% damage reduction on her 2 says hello.

"None of her abilities stand out as class defining". So a meteor shower on everything that you see isn't something you would expect from a DPS fire character, got it!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...