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Vauban & Ember Dev Workshop

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En 4/10/2019 a las 14:28, (NSW)Katsuro dijo:

Tactical Nuke Incoming plus Meteor rain like Madara nice

I thought the same when seeing that Ember rework.

I'm enjoying mainly Vauban for the first time in a few months.

Great job DE !!

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as for one of his mines, could be like a turret with two functions, machine gun mode and the other explosive grenade launcher/rockets which lasts 15sec before duration mods. instead of those nail gun mines would be kickass since vauban is a engineer type frame

Edited by PatrioticEagle

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It would be nice of DE if they looked at some more of the earlier warframes to see if they could in some way be reworked or adjusted. I am primarily thinking of volt here, as both Excalibur and mag have decent mid to end game viability and damage, while volt has speed and E.shield that are relatively helpful at higher levels. This is just a comment and i do not mean to exclude any other warframes, just wanting a bit more love for one of my favorite and most played warframes

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ideas and random thoughts, should of gave players a few icons and refreshing glyphs and decorations for their orbiter and dressup because of the reworks alot of new accounts dont have the special warframes or reson to get excited about vauban/ember, and tehy dont know how to obtain or buy them at times, so the bounties and foundry are a great place to add some gifts and sayings for ordis, music, enhancements added to lockers or pickups, and scanning to be more interesting, i liked the thought of more earth weathers and effects of volcanic thunder and magic on some areas to be response with the weapons and warframes abilities and pickups in the future these can change their normal function or appearance of the visuals, effects of energy, emissive for chroma depends on nearby enemies and resources, walls, and other things manifest to create a more organic atmosphere, the misile strike is great in open areas, i mean orbital attack for vauban, but in enclosed areas, i think he should wield some heavier robotic or wheels. call up a jet pack, and should have other unlockables and passives to gain, right now he feels realistic, but lacks something for the players who love recasting, also there are no visuals or beacons so players look for the ball on the floor, THEY DO A REALLY GOOD JOB AGAINST MONSTESR AND ENEMIES BEFORE THE PLAYER GETS TO THE SCENE!!!!! ITS AWESOME!!!! maybe ehave a version where they fly or perform other types of attacks after with customizing placed in a new arsenal slotting for vauban's future where he is protected by flying drones and orbs to have players use him in tank and defensive modes, since the abiliteis are primary to buck and shot, so far i dont have ember on my new account, so i cant give any input, i do know that vauban needs more elusive visuals on his armor and movement animations or visuals when being hit and shiot at, sliding mayybe made mroe unique or have robotic functions using friction / environment tables maybe to open up a jetpack/railboots/ or skates temporarily which use up energy for duration and enhances melee attacks, call up rockets from his back and other tricks. The basic vauban looks like freeware, i hope we can add other versions and gift helmets or apparance changes, a quick robotic inspired pallete might be good to consider as a figt, or gift to palyers who own VAUBAN PALETE (it can be automatically added unranked, while other versions are earned or purchased, there is no robotics shop, so there should be a robotics expert added per syndicate and planet's relays, who offers glamours for robotics and platinum purchases in the future) THANKYOU.

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Feedback for Vauban rework:
so far the concepts and idea for the rework is great, however...
Minelayer is still largely pointless... ūüėě
1. Tether mine, nice CC option, however only 2 targets? (even Magus Lockdown is more effective)
2. Flechette Orb - good to have indirect form of damage mitigation (puncture proc)... but if CC (i.e. bastille) is already in play, it doesn't serve any purpose as enemies cant shoot back
3. Vector Pad - cannot sustain speed after boost (solution: give residual speed bonus after stepping on pad)
4. Overdriver - good to have extra damage... but can we have more? maybe 50% at base please? 

if you were to ask me, I say, maybe a more limited form of Mesmer Skin 3-6 hits to replace vector pad or tether mine as a form of "panic" defense or giving out "armor" to allies

  • Upvote 3

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On 2019-10-30 at 5:36 PM, Dinomotion said:

I thought the same when seeing that Ember rework.

I'm enjoying mainly Vauban for the first time in a few months.

Great job DE !!

Ya seeing lotta complaints bout that.  I thought something cool like a 15 second ability sentinel that comes out and actually buzzes around enemies blasting them then returning to vauban.  People saying most of the attacks are missing targets

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Love the new Vauban! Everything about his kit is amazing seriously great job! Only critique would be for the tether mine would be amazing if it tethered a few more enemies! But overall amazing work! 

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OK Vaubans 1,3,4 are Great but they need to scale little better with Mods (i mean Grendels scaling is insane) 

 

Please for the love of My Tech Tactitian remove Minelayer as a 4 Grenade- Pick Ability, Give Him something actually useful or he will be Forgotten about in a week or so, Give him an Actual Minefield ability or a stationary Duration Turret? why is Minelayer even still here, you know Pablo would have removed it like Iron Jab

Do the Right thing and Give Vauban what he deserves ūüôā

Embers Reworks is actually amazing!

 

not sure on Tesla Bank either, i need to test it more( maybe his 1 should get more Seekers with PS)

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With the Bastille augment, if I throw down 4 bastilles ontop of each other, and I change them into a vortex I except the vortexes to combine and have the duration of 4 vortexes. Not just having them each act as their own vortex.

Also I am going to be honest, I hate this ball throwing mechanic, I know this is Vauban's thing, but when throwing a bastille or vortex at long range and trying to follow it up with a photon strike, the photon strike doesn't usually land anywhere near it unless using same trajectory. So unless Vauban is supposed to become a stationary trebuchet, I don't see why this is a thing. Increase the throwing speed, remove or lower the ball drop or something.

Edited by Xazur
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Having played reworked ember... I don't hate it, but there are some things I hate:

It seems that ember's fire blast and meteor are full body animations... just.... no. WHY? Basically nothing in this game should ever be an animation lock. Have we not learned this by now, devs? Also... the animation for meteor is seriously... lame. It's like we're trying to chest-bump Jesus whenever we cast it.

But the most hated thing: Immolation!

The energy drain is just... super aggressive when it tops out. It also REFUSES to go down no matter how many times you fireblast if you've been "too liberal" with your application of arson.

It is basically to the point that, if you are not going to be casting... like at all... sure, go ahead, pop on immolation and have the damage resistance, but if you are going to be casting, take it off and leave it off because it's just going to be the most annoying thing ever, threatening to eat all your energy all up if you don't like... STARE at it. It's like "We gave you a Ferrari, keep your eyes on the dashboard!" The indicator seriously needs to be in the middle of the screen... and even then, it doesn't matter, you fire blast to get it down and it just shoots right back up cause you've been too aggressive with your fire magic.

I honestly don't know how to fix the power's current mechanics without making it OP. The meter should probably just be turned into ember's passive. It can be natively "full" and refills automatically over time. With each cast, it goes down along with the bonuses it provides to the defense/offense of her abilities. Simply make immolation a self buff that scales off of the meter's current status (as all her powers would) and call it a day.

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I've been playing Ember since the rework got out and otherwise I am mostly fine with it, but the 2nd ability (immolation) needs some adjustment. Basically it is a nuisance having to manage the ability like one has to currently, where using abilities 1 and 4 actually make the heat level rise faster and faster the more you use the ability and then ability 3 reduces that speed by one notch every time you use it. Let's say you use fireball few times and then cast the meteor twice, now you have to cast the third ability few times (or just cancel/recast the 2nd ability) for somewhat controlled rise of the heat level.

This is detrimental to the gameplay because one has to be eyeballing that meter constantly and trying to micromanage it with ability usage, which is not really the thing that makes the game fluid, but more like the thing that forces you to use (even spam) or toggle an ability. I for one don't want to be doing this much micromanagement for a single ability.

I suggest the following changes:

  • the heat level always rises at constant level, regardless of ability usage
  • fireball adds a static amount of heat to the meter (5%?)
  • inferno adds a static amount of heat to the meter (more than fireball so 10% or 15%?)
  • fireblast reduces the amount of heat as currently, the amount could be fine tuned

Having these changes would make you still overheat in the end, using fireball and inferno would get you there faster, but using those abilities would not penalize the player having to spam fireblast to manage the heat meter fill rate and/or toggling the immolation.

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W h e r e   i s   m y   e n e r g y

Feedback on Ember rework: 

2: Permanent 90% DMGR and, please, remove energy drain (why is it even there, Gara's 2 has no energy drain, Shatter Shield has no energy drain, all the other protective abilites have no energy drain, why a squishy frame has to have backfiring sides on the only thing preventing her to be oneshotted). Also because it discourages a cast frame to cast abilities. I find myself having to cast again and again and again and again her 3 just to save my energy but -->

3: why does this ability cost energy! lmao. You use this ability to save your energy but it costs energy so basically you spend energy in order to save energy and, in the end, don't have energy no matter what you do.

If you really want to keep this energy drought system give her at least a energy regeneration passive that gives her energy for every enemy on fire (which HAVE to work even with her 2 drain up or we have the same problem all over again.

  • Upvote 3

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OCTAVIA/VAUBAN & other ideas

i would love to see that some of the orbiters and relays get some upgrades, and weapons for vauban and ember to wield which are more believable than the best gunblades and lances that we have already with cogs and mechanic gismos to use, each relay i think should have special rewards revelant to the planets they are stationed over, much of the game rewards and enemies are too alike, so the syndicate game and capture is affectedand the rewards take a while to obtain if you dont know what you are doing, or are somewhat predictable to just get a augment for the furis and not know if it works on the AK-furis or MK-1 single wield, dual wield rivens and aughments even work on those??? So its hard to define what is a really great weapon without resorting to technique and modding in some instances i belive that we had a good chance to test players during the event locked them at level 60 enemies and it was melee only, but the energy was avaliable and there were no other challenging or rewarding mods that apeared unique to keep the players trying over and over and then again it was difficult to take serious because i thought it was a play test, maybe the music and enemies generated in the area could have less predictable spawning animations and weapons, or a sudden earthquake motif or sprinklers bursting makes for a good tileset on defense missions or rain, but still we would need other functions and animations for vauban and ember and music, maybe ciphers and energy could eventually be used to burn consoles or dismantle cameras autonomously, which is great for Vauban without leaning towards a modspace or aughment the parazon could have an extra slotted crystal or fuelcell to allocate for defense and actions later, but vauban players want to change their little robots eventually octavia would also get some customization for her mobile weapons, there is a post on augment rework i will have to review the mods before i get a chance to say something interesting, at least vauban feels HEAVY, there is the need to be quick and using recast of the skills you already use its not really clear , so to make quick work of the weakest enemies additional weapons to call up and enclosure/traps or robotic augments.

*maybe good to throw a quick update for octavia players, robotics, and moas pertaining vauban' which can include new mods and decoratives, instruments, weapons, aughtments, or rivens also where's my kitbow!!! each orbiter and relay need their own unique shops and unlockables or trade npc, i think that barokiter takes way to long and has many wonderful goods, but an average player usually walks away with only one item and discouraged at their minimalistic start, there should be some partial NPC who offer ROBOTICS and AUGMENTS that are revelant to OCTAVIA, VAUBAN, and the other robots and weapons , maybe new enemies and shields are generally added, and cephalon / ordis gain their own patch notes, and gifts. 

*i think nightwave could do more, its limited because it contains high level bounties, and there should be other of her friends and radio features during and after the event, the alert system usually only displays a small area to help clem but the drops are genetic or predictable so i don't volunteer in the piracy of raiding a underwater castle for no reason, a bunch of music for combat might do some good to add something modern for these areas, and special scans and loot or rewards which might be kitgun components or parts for zaws, grinner weapon decorations, or sugatras in the lockers as well as blueprints or floofs,

the kuria could be something interesting to add to the orbiters later, but i dont know much which would be inspiring to a vauban player or weapon to craft from such scans of cephalons or enemy, time for icecream, but it could mean that the ayatan statues could be transmutated into specters or parts for crafting or the ayatan stars can be added to the robots features of octavia ./ vauban, rollers.

that sound they make is great, i hope other beeps are added

Edited by SnakeBadger

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Hi all!

Ok, so, I played a few dozen minutes to experiment all the latest changes. Not much I know, still enough to get a serious opinion on a few things.

 Vauban

Sadly, I strongly dislike overall. Several reasons.

1. Loss of Tesla: yes, it's kinda a big deal. I know not many people used it, because pure electricity (decent argument that one ability is underwhelming under some faction/enemies, although all "Elemental Frames" suffer same problem) and more importantly because it scaled badly. 

WHY did you replace it? The new ability is even more underwhelming. Old and new share the same problem, needing the syndicate mod to be a minimum useful. At least the old one, with the mod transforming Tesla Zap into permanent cutting lasers, could make a potent tactic when paired with Vortex. The new 1 is simply useless (yeah, you can buff damage with your weapon: if you can make it do something relevant, you probably didn't need the extra electricity damage in the first place, plus it requires that other people notice your ability and dont install kill with abilities). One of the big problems of these balls is that its are slow as hell!  The other one being the delay before first discharge, far far too slow.

Simply useless to use as "bodyguards" of sort, because you move 4x too fast minimum for them. Useless to use to guard choke points, because enemies have too much time before being first affected. 

This is a net regression compared to the old one.

2. Minefields: why all old ones gone? Laser Trip won't be too much missed, although it was still useful too much situational... But the grenade with Radiation Proc was useful paired with efficiency for cheap mass confuse, Bounce just needed to be changed to a time-basis instead of "uses basis" to be great in many more situations, and Shred grenade just needed a bit of oomph or kind of proc to become nice. 

On the new: the "Vector" one is nice for interceptions or blocking some pathways. Can possibly been used to "direct" enemies into a Vortex although I think this would require some luck on position. Flechette is nice in idea to provide cheap way for mass AOE, but the damage is too small. It should have a scaling component of some way. Tether one is USELESS because it cannot scale with strength and only 2 at a time is just far too little compared to what every other frame with some similar movement/action control can do. 

3. Big ray: useless. Sorry to be blunt, but really, between the casting time, mediocre AOE and little damage on armored, it simply requires too much preparation (Bastille then Vortex) to be worth using. 

4. Bastille/Vortex: I was a bit baffled at first, because I liked being able to throw multiple Vortex quickly, but overall it's a good idea. 

General points: why do we still need to "hold to cast"? Why are they still NO indication as to which mine is selected (hint: you usually don't have time to pay attention to the few dozen pixels on the bottom right)? 

I'd strongly suggest the following: either allow Vauban to customize the mines he takes in equipment, or dedicate one button to ability change (maybe "full set", like Equinox has two entire sets of different abilities). At the minimum, invert the behaviour: we shouldn't need to hold to throw minefields, because maintaining a tactic happens far more often than switching tactic (and mine). Alternatively, making a change by "double-tapping" may be an idea?

Following that change, simply put back Tesla, Bounce and Concussion, or at least make the first an elemental ball that we can choose.

I really appreciate all the effort that went to make a rework, it's probably hundreds of hours of dozens of people... Yet I'm afraid you strongly missed the mark of what was lacking to Vauban to make it interesting to more players. ūüôā

Keep up the good work anyways (review of Ember / melee change later no time now ^^)

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So... it has come to pass.  I see that my words have fallen on deaf ears.  I still love you, DE, but I really think you screwed this one up badly.  I hope you will reconsider, and possibly take my suggestion to at least merge WoF with Inferno as you did with Bastille and Vortex.

You know, I always wondered why you chose Ember for the statue in the Strata relay.  Now I understand.

It was a memorial.

You will be remembered fondly, Ember, and you will be missed... always....

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32 minutes ago, Citan666 said:

Hi all!

Ok, so, I played a few dozen minutes to experiment all the latest changes. Not much I know, still enough to get a serious opinion on a few things.

 Vauban

Sadly, I strongly dislike overall. Several reasons.

1. Loss of Tesla: yes, it's kinda a big deal. I know not many people used it, because pure electricity (decent argument that one ability is underwhelming under some faction/enemies, although all "Elemental Frames" suffer same problem) and more importantly because it scaled badly. 

WHY did you replace it? The new ability is even more underwhelming. Old and new share the same problem, needing the syndicate mod to be a minimum useful. At least the old one, with the mod transforming Tesla Zap into permanent cutting lasers, could make a potent tactic when paired with Vortex. The new 1 is simply useless (yeah, you can buff damage with your weapon: if you can make it do something relevant, you probably didn't need the extra electricity damage in the first place, plus it requires that other people notice your ability and dont install kill with abilities). One of the big problems of these balls is that its are slow as hell!  The other one being the delay before first discharge, far far too slow.

Simply useless to use as "bodyguards" of sort, because you move 4x too fast minimum for them. Useless to use to guard choke points, because enemies have too much time before being first affected. 

This is a net regression compared to the old one.

2. Minefields: why all old ones gone? Laser Trip won't be too much missed, although it was still useful too much situational... But the grenade with Radiation Proc was useful paired with efficiency for cheap mass confuse, Bounce just needed to be changed to a time-basis instead of "uses basis" to be great in many more situations, and Shred grenade just needed a bit of oomph or kind of proc to become nice. 

On the new: the "Vector" one is nice for interceptions or blocking some pathways. Can possibly been used to "direct" enemies into a Vortex although I think this would require some luck on position. Flechette is nice in idea to provide cheap way for mass AOE, but the damage is too small. It should have a scaling component of some way. Tether one is USELESS because it cannot scale with strength and only 2 at a time is just far too little compared to what every other frame with some similar movement/action control can do. 

3. Big ray: useless. Sorry to be blunt, but really, between the casting time, mediocre AOE and little damage on armored, it simply requires too much preparation (Bastille then Vortex) to be worth using. 

4. Bastille/Vortex: I was a bit baffled at first, because I liked being able to throw multiple Vortex quickly, but overall it's a good idea. 

General points: why do we still need to "hold to cast"? Why are they still NO indication as to which mine is selected (hint: you usually don't have time to pay attention to the few dozen pixels on the bottom right)? 

I'd strongly suggest the following: either allow Vauban to customize the mines he takes in equipment, or dedicate one button to ability change (maybe "full set", like Equinox has two entire sets of different abilities). At the minimum, invert the behaviour: we shouldn't need to hold to throw minefields, because maintaining a tactic happens far more often than switching tactic (and mine). Alternatively, making a change by "double-tapping" may be an idea?

Following that change, simply put back Tesla, Bounce and Concussion, or at least make the first an elemental ball that we can choose.

I really appreciate all the effort that went to make a rework, it's probably hundreds of hours of dozens of people... Yet I'm afraid you strongly missed the mark of what was lacking to Vauban to make it interesting to more players. ūüôā

Keep up the good work anyways (review of Ember / melee change later no time now ^^)

1 +2 have always been trash, his old mines were dreadful(and new ones), his 3 would be ok if it had a quicker blast time and scaled past 80

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il y a 51 minutes, Sheep-frame a dit :

1 +2 have always been trash, his old mines were dreadful(and new ones), his 3 would be ok if it had a quicker blast time and scaled past 80

Well, I'll have to disagree. 1 and 2 weren't trash in concept. They just needed some kind of buff. Their main problem was imo that DE made them "use-based" instead of duration based, while providing nothing really significant beyond damage when cast as is (proc chance unaffected by STR for example, and I think many people always missed that proc chance could be boosted to 100% by charging - on that point, in general, there is a big lack in readability of abilities imo but that's another topic).  And the fire rate was far too slow to be used as a crowd control, while the ability description (especially "as charged") strongly hinted that was the goal of it.
Besides that, they main problem was being only electricity based making them useless against some kind of enemies.
But just speeding up the frequency of discharges, and NOT limit number by grenade duration, would have been enough to make it very worthwhile.

As for the 2: Bounce has been extremely potent in soloing interceptions: the big pain was that it was limited to 4 uses, with no way to buff that. Make it time-based, increase jump buff with STR, and you'd get a very potent tool for both making travel easy (especially some puzzles) and doing crowd control. 

Shred was totally invaluable at high levels with high STR, but the fact it was duration based, at duration was so short even with buff, made it difficult to use. 
Also, the actual utility of reducing armor was not really put into light, instead people first were presented with damage, which was very bad.
You just needed to buff it by doubling damage as Blast AND Puncture and put the armor reduction standard to 50% for 8 sec to make it great.

More or less the same with Concuss: too many different ranges and durations, and the best effect (radiation proc) was very "hidden". Harmonize ranges, stress the radiation effect instead of the deafen one (I still, to this day, fail to see the utility to deafen enemies with an active ability that will immediately alert them in the first place).

Seriously, Vauban didn't need much to make those mines be extremely efficient: either keep as is but swap with 1 (so they cost 25 energy before reduction). Or apply those small suggested changes. 

Vauban's main problem has always just been...

1. Limited synergy between abilities (basically 1 + 3, 2 "standalone").

2. Necessity, more or less, to tap into everything (STR / Range / Duration) for all abilities, whereas usually frames can be optimized with no setback (no reduction in str/efficiency/range/duration) for one or two abilities.

3. Requirement to use mods to give some abilities the extra oomph they needed (like Tesla "as laser trap", Bastille's Repellant).

Edited by Citan666

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Opinions on Ember Rework

Honestly I kind of wish DE had done this in two stages rather than all in one go.  The main improvement to ember isn't even anything to do with ember, it's the change to the fire proc and imo this change could have dealt with a majority of the issues that the old ember had when it came to scaing for higher tier content. 

As to the latest ember rework...

Passive.. honestly it feels about as useful as the old one.

FIREBALL - Basically can we have the previous one back... that left a big 'blob' of fire after it hit something so we could maybe catch a few enemies as they go through it.  The combo duration is stupidly short too, especially with the 'relatively' long cast time. 

IMMOLATION (replacing Accelerant) - Absolutely hate micromanagement abilities which is made even worse by us needing to use energy to keep it under control.... it is an incredibly energy hungry ability that is essentially no better than most 90% damage reduction abilities that have a one time cost.  It just seems completely unnecessary to have a design like it does at this moment considering other frames. 

FIRE BLAST - This is literally a nerf....can we get the old one back again where we had a duration based ring of fire which also added fire damage to our weapons.  Essentially this has kept the push back of the old one but took away most of it's damage ability AND the ring which allowed us to add fire damage to our weapons when we fired through it... considering how little it actually does it shouldn't really be 75 energy at stock.

INFERNO (replacing World On Fire) - Honestly I had no issue with the old world on fire apart from the lack of scaling and the way the range nerfed it's augment firequake, the former could have likely have been fixed with the fire proc change.... 

Inferno is rather energy hungry (actually the entire kit is far too hungry on energy), has issues with line of sight (as usual with most abilities and weapons) and imo doesn't actually scale that well because ot it being a fixed damage output instead of a scaling output  (why can't DE make their minds up...)  The 'passive' of the ability to pass fire onto other enemies is basically pretty useless because most enemies just stay away from enemies that are on fire.  Honestly would have preferred this to be a 360 degree ability too but doubt that will happen seeing as you took it away from ash. 

I literally could not see anything other than visual affects when trying it on hildryn and the attacks were all clustered in a small area.... never had this issue with the old ability but sadly this seems to be a trait of the design process these days where DE is focusing on 'shiny things' that appeal to the newbies rather than considering how it will actually affect game play. 

Still seems to take our energy even if we don't hit anything... can we at least get the same treatment as ash's bladestorm on this...

I noticed how similar this ability is to hydroids tentacles in it's approach to attacking enemies but it actually lacks the 'scaling area' aspect that was given to hydroid in his mini rework... 

 

GENERAL BITS - excessively high energy use primarily due to immolation, no one area we can sacrifice in a build meaning compromised build(s), some of the animation times are just too long and break the flow of movement etc too.

Honestly can't see me using her much now, she's worse on low levels due to no world on fire and imo doesn't scale well enough considering the energy cost for high level....

Edited by LSG501
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Back on feedback, now Ember.

Sadly quicker and harsher.

1. Dont see any real difference in effectiveness with the old one, maybe I missed something? I did notice there is no lingering flame, unless I simply misread the situation. That was actually useful when throwing fireballs at choke points. Wasn't scaling nice at high levels sadly.

2. Very disappointed. First, why would you need to make Ember "like Saryin" an elemental with good armor? Second, where is the buff that boosted casting speed and fire damage? Third, that doesn't prevent at all Ember from getting one-shot at level 80+ unless you also buff life/armor, which, funnily enough, was actually unneeded before because of World of Fire's syndicate mod. Idea itself is of course nice though. Why not fuse both then? When you end the "armor effect", make it the Accelerant effect (dispersal), possibly for a duration which is buffed depending on heat level. That way people who want to micromanage things beyond timing can do so. Other people can simply double tap to bring back Accelerant.

3. Why change it? The strip armor is interesting although I don't see how you could justify it fluffwise, it could just have been merged into the ring of fire. The weapon buff and damage were actually useful paired with efficiency and syndicate mod for some cheap but efficient crowd control especially against Infested, but not only. In addition to that, the stagger and damage is ridiculous when cast with basic 2. I'd really like the return of the original Ring of Fire, with just that strip armor effect for those within. And possibly ability to charge for more power.

4. Absolute crap. Sorry for the choice of words, but it's proper in my eyes. World of Fire was a very nice way to make harrassing, annoying bland low/mid level farm taking the minimum of time. On high levels, paired with big range and efficiency, it provided a nice emergency (or permanent) crowd control or adequate melee damage with the syndicate mod. 
And you swapped that for something extremely bland in fluff, that has not really better damage, AND TARGETS ONLY FRONT OF EMBER?
The only vaguely redeeming aspect is the propagating fire, but that too would have been much better integrated to the Ring of Fire (or made an effect of Fireball after Accelerant).

Seriously, your change on passive was probably the only one really needed to allow Ember to scale well (or maybe up a bit base range of abilities). Otherwise, just in addition to that allowing Accelerant to enable extra effects on other abilities (ex Fireball applies propagating fire for a few seconds, Ring of Fire strips armor) and buff a bit range on 2, 3 and 4 would have been enough.

Before, the only mod really needed for high level play was World on Fire one or Terryfying one. Plus possibly the "give fire damage buff" one if you really wanted to teamplay. Now, not only is Ember still incapable of soloing, you actually need all syndicate mods to make it somewhat viable on end content.

And it lost the ability to at least take care of some Interception/Defense/Mobile Defense. And it lost the one niche it had, taking care of missions requiring primarily mobility (Exterminate/Rescue/Defection).

Sincerely, I see no interest in playing Ember now. For raw map cleaning, it's still completely ridiculous compared to Saryn/Equinox/Octavia. For crowd control, it brings even lesser than before. The "share armor" is completely eating at Nezha (which is also strongly fire-themed) yet still far less useful than every other (Mirage Prime with syndicate mod too, or Gara). Raw damage is still ridiculous compared to half other frames. For mobile cleaning, it lost its core ability.

Yeah, even with the new passive. New passive is great on paper, just decent in practice. Because you will rarely have more than a 7-9 enemies on fire at any given time, except maybe on the most crowded/clustered maps. And you deprived Ember of all effects that could allow it to "trap and set on fire" multiple enemies over time, one way or another.

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Also, quick note about people saying Vauban's Speed mine is useless...

I'll wholeheartedly agree with you as far as using them for FRAMES is concerned.

However, those are very efficient (in fact as efficient as would have been Bounce mine with a duration-based process) to repel enemies. Tried it in an Interception earler, I could easily guard one spot while another was "self-guarded" by those speed mines. 

This is exactly the kind of sly play that I expect to do as Vauban, and that I like. 

That's why I was so disappointed to see all the classic mines disappear instead of just getting the minimal tweak they required to be appreciated.

Also, cost cast, for old and new alike, is simply too much. I'd much rather see a 25 cost at least for those that are pure utility/control such as "sticky"/"speed"/"jump"/stun" (so Tesla + those selectable with 1) and all crowd abilities as 2. 

On that note: since Vauban has a big "mechanic" feel: why not give him as the t3rd, instead, ability to set up a turret holding his primary or secondary weapon, possibly with some buff depending on weapon type (reload speed/velocity/spread/penetration)?

Edited by Citan666

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DEAR DEV, Whats problem with you?! What did you do with Vauban?

 Is it hard to make him more protected?! (F.e. how you made Ember second ability)  Please, delete and change current second useless ability.

I cannot understand, Why is so epic 3 aby with very low damage? It's must look like 10k corrosive damage(not less).

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I submitted feedback regarding Vauban's proposed rework earlier in this thread pre-PC release. I decided not to edit it and reply with new feedback post-PC release because some of my thoughts have changed. I still have not been able to playtest the changes because I play on console, but I did watch Brozime's The Old Blood release stream on Twitch and Rahetalius' rework review on YouTube to draw my conclusions.

I attempted to leave this feedback in the The Old Blood: Hotfix 26.0.4 shortly after that patch released where it would have more visibility since that is a "Hot!" thread. However, it appears that since I log into the forum under my XB1 account, I'm not allowed to reply in that thread. So, I guess as a console player, I have to depend on PC members to share my thoughts. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic. I just don't think I should be restricted from giving feedback on trending topics.

Vauban

Passive: Keep passive

1. Tesla Nervos: Initially, I proposed change to gas damage for DOT over CC, but this reduces methods of triggering passive. Plus, Tesla Bank augment looks really strong.

2. Minelayer (rename Tactician): I still think this ability needs more utility. I get the inclusion of a turret is a "combat engineer" trope in games, but it just doesn't appeal to me. In addition, the current implementation is ineffective. Changes to abilities proposed in Spoiler window below.

Spoiler
  • Tether Coil - Double the amount of affected targets to 4.
  • Flechette Orb (replace with Resupply) -¬†Vauban throws combined Squad Ammo/Shield Restore pad. A lot of Warframes possess abilities that provide Health/Energy orbs, but few provide shields, and I can't think of one that provides ammo. It provides a niche and fits the theme since combat engineers are infantry support.
  • Vector Pad (replace with Phaseshift Shielding) -
    • Vauban can deploy two separate small diameter domes that block¬†damage like Frost's Snow Globe with no slow effect.
    • If you press Jump with no other input, you teleport to the other dome. May need some type of¬†5¬†second "teleportation sickness" debuff to prevent constant back-and-forth.
    • Placing a third shield replaces the first.
    • Since the shields have a health pool, they can be destroyed causing a need to recast.
    • Use K-drive race gates as graphical asset which I think are just smaller Nullifier bubbles anyway.
    • Combined my initial suggestion of¬†Shielding¬†and¬†Telepads¬†being two separate abilities in Tactician).
    • Better utility for this ability:¬†better mobility than bounce pad or vector pad since bypassing terrain beats parkour, and it provides defense.
    • Lots of inspiration for this ability: ¬†Index Broker Translocators, Wisp teleport to Reservoirs using Breach Surge,¬†TF2 Engineer Teleporters, Terminator Time Displacement Spheres
  • Overdriver (rename Recon Force) -¬†Keep "Damage Amp" effect for allies¬†but also adds effect similar to Argonak's enemy highlight. I just really want this gimmick to be implemented somewhere else in the game. In addition, it fits thematically.

3. Photon Strike: I'm not claiming to be a physicist, but since "photon" was chosen from the nomenclature, I think magnetic and radiation damage would make more sense than blast for this ability. I suggested radiation before, but the addition of magnetic would combine well. It would be better damage against Corpus (Vauban's primary enemies) and boss-type enemies with Alloy armor that cannot be affected by CC. There's also additional CC from radiation procs.

4. Bastillle: Make the containment field generator targetable with the reticle. Holding the ability key while targeting the device will collapse only that Bastille into a Vortex. Holding it with no device targeted will collapse all active Bastilles into Vortexes. I was inspired by Wisp using Breach Surge on Reservoirs again.

Conclusion

I'm not a game developer so I can't foresee how all my proposed changes to Vauban will impact the game, and I may have a different vision of a futuristic combat engineer. To me, the primary roles of a combat engineer are mobility, counter-mobility, assault, and defense. He has the counter-mobility in spades. Photon Strike, Overdriver, and Tesla Bank have added assault. Phaseshift Shielding provides defense and mobility. I know this fact doesn't afford me special consideration, but Vauban has always been a Warframe I want to like because I am a U.S. Army Combat Engineer veteran.

Edited by (XB1)RakishLion84

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Thoughts on Ember:

I really like these reworks. But like others have mentioned the management for immolation is a bit too much. Just two casts of her 4th sends immolation into a rediculous energy eater just to manage, let alone if you forget it's still going for a moment.

Imo, the charge rate for the immolation meter should be capped at whatever it is for just one 4th cast. Which is still plenty, just not an insane rate. With possibly the time that rate is increased being less too, but that might not be needed. The main issue is how fast it charges.

Vauban:

The cast time on everything needs to be less. And personally, I wouldn't mind a little more duration for his 4th abilities.

Also, it'd be nice if the Tesla Nervos roller drones become highlighted once they attach to an enemy. At least just with the augment. Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time seeing where those drones go when there are enemies and abilities going all over the screen.

Edited by AntiMomentum

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Vauban Feedback:

1. Tesla Nervos

Should stay localized around Vauban in order to stun enemies in his immediate proximity and not wander off and do their own thing.

2. Minelayer

Sticky line could deserve some power strength scaling to become a useful option

3. Orbital Strike

Just trash...this should defintiely get a dmg boost.

4.Bastille/Vortex

So the way this behaves is just idiotic. Casting the Bastille gives me X sec of bastille. If i then collapse the bastille into the vortex i get another X sec of vortex. BUT if i charge for my vortex i get only X sec.

So if my Bastille would be 20sec why can't my Vortex be 30sec. i did charge for it. And now i get nothing in return.

Ember Feedback:

2. shouldn't cost more energy when at 90%. (it doesn't cost Gara anything to keep her DR active why does EMBER need to pay?) Therefore it should be more difficult to reach that 90% by casting more but once reached being able to maintain is just crucial for higher level content.

3. The armor striping is nice. Using her 3 to keep her 2 in check sucks sry.

4. Nice dmg. But at least at half the radius enemies should get hit that are not in her FOV. Often tileset obstacles bug her out.

Edited by GA-Bulletproof

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