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(PS4)Tactless_Ninja

So..who's next? (Reworks)

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You don’t get it. I don’t “dislike” Revenant. I hate him with every fiber of my being. You can’t make a Warframe look like something from the lore of the game and then make all of their abilities have absolutely nothing to do with the thing his appearance is based off! How would people like it if when DE were making Gauss and calling him the speed frame, but absolutely nothing about his abilities had to do with speed? IDK about you but people would likely be down right furious. So why is it that Revenant, the frame who looks like an Eidolon, but due to some Herculean leap in common sense and logic was given vampire powers, is given a pass? You can’t use the argument that it made him a good frame because he’s trash. You can’t argue that there’s some lore thing that justifies it because there isn’t. He’s a bad frame with no justification for the way he exists. The only reason anybody even thinks about defending him is because they’re so caught up in the idea that you need to be able to kill level 3000 enemies in an incredibly slow and boring process that’s severely outperformed by just about every other frame in the games content that actually gives you rewards. He either needs a complete rework or to just be deleted from the game.

Also because he makes almost everything in the game a cake walk!

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14 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You don’t get it. I don’t “dislike” Revenant. I hate him with every fiber of my being. You can’t make a Warframe look like something from the lore of the game and then make all of their abilities have absolutely nothing to do with the thing his appearance is based off! How would people like it if when DE were making Gauss and calling him the speed frame, but absolutely nothing about his abilities had to do with speed? IDK about you but people would likely be down right furious. So why is it that Revenant, the frame who looks like an Eidolon, but due to some Herculean leap in common sense and logic was given vampire powers, is given a pass? You can’t use the argument that it made him a good frame because he’s trash. You can’t argue that there’s some lore thing that justifies it because there isn’t. He’s a bad frame with no justification for the way he exists. The only reason anybody even thinks about defending him is because they’re so caught up in the idea that you need to be able to kill level 3000 enemies in an incredibly slow and boring process that’s severely outperformed by just about every other frame in the games content that actually gives you rewards. He either needs a complete rework or to just be deleted from the game.

So don't play him. Also the Eidolon do have some parallels with vampires, undead, consume others to regain health, army of thralls, only come out at night. Please leave gauss out of this he is a frame themed around kinetic energy and he fits the roll perfectly, not to mention he is the fastest frame in warframe so I don't get whats not about speedy about him. If there are frames that there mere existence is enough to upset you I'm not sure what to say except no one if forcing you to play them. I would also warn you against using acquisitive language as it is highly unlikely to get you a positive response.   

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I think that valkyr is a good choice. Rip line is really bad, warcry is alright because of the augment, paralysis' bizarre shield formula is just that, bizarre. Finally we have Hysteria, which has that coveted invincibility and healing, but it's like the most corrupt-a-wish thing ever because you are stuck with stubby range, a very limited move set, that built up damage field, and the sound filter.

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Nyx. They started the rework and basically never finished it. Also Loki. Imo, the most boring frame in the game abilities wise. His kit feels so old for 2019 standards. 

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32 minutes ago, Troposphere6 said:

So don't play him. Also the Eidolon do have some parallels with vampires, undead, consume others to regain health, army of thralls, only come out at night.

Even if Eidolons are undead, that doesn’t directly translate to vampires. Zombies aren’t vampires, draugrs are not vampires, Eidolons are not vampires. Eidolons are giant behemoths with a vast array of lasers and energy missiles.

Vombulysts are not Thralls. They are an extension of the Eidolons. Like a squadron of soldiers. They don’t need to be mind controlled into doing what the Eidolons wants. They just do it.

You’re the first person out of the well over 10 people that I’ve argued about this with that has brought up the fact that they only come out at night so applause on that. Still doesn’t make him a vampire. Other things come out at night. Werewolves, slasher villains, ghosts, raccoons.

You’re also extremely misinterpreting what I said about Gauss. He is the speed frame, but if DE didn’t make him the speed frame while still calling him the speed frame people would be infuriated. So why is it that people are fine with DE calling Revenant the Eidolon frame when his abilities don’t reflect that?

You’re also not getting that the concept of a frame who’s modeled after one of the in game bosses is an incredible concept that was complete squandered by negligent game design. I technically want to play Revenant, but not if he’s just going to stay this waste of an amazing idea.

 I don’t care whether I’m received positively or negatively. As long as my efforts get Revenant reworked in the end.

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Even if Eidolons are undead, that doesn’t directly translate to vampires. Zombies aren’t vampires, draugrs are not vampires, Eidolons are not vampires. Eidolons are giant behemoths with a vast array of lasers and energy missiles.

Vombulysts are not Thralls. They are an extension of the Eidolons. Like a squadron of soldiers. They don’t need to be mind controlled into doing what the Eidolons wants. They just do it.

You’re the first person out of the well over 10 people that I’ve argued about this with that has brought up the fact that they only come out at night so applause on that. Still doesn’t make him a vampire. Other things come out at night. Werewolves, slasher villains, ghosts, raccoons.

You’re also extremely misinterpreting what I said about Gauss. He is the speed frame, but if DE didn’t make him the speed frame while still calling him the speed frame people would be infuriated. So why is it that people are fine with DE calling Revenant the Eidolon frame when his abilities don’t reflect that?

You’re also not getting that the concept of a frame who’s modeled after one of the in game bosses is an incredible concept that was complete squandered by negligent game design. I technically want to play Revenant, but not if he’s just going to stay this waste of an amazing idea.

 I don’t care whether I’m received positively or negatively. As long as my efforts get Revenant reworked in the end.

If you come across negatively no one will listen to you. Thralls aren't necessarily mind controlled all the word means is servant you also didn't address the eidolon consuming the Vombulysts to regain health which they do in there second phase. Personally that's vampiric enough for me, and since Revenant is not fundimentally broken like ember was I doubt you'll see anything more than small tweaks if anything to him.

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I keep hoping Titania..... but she never gets an actual rework just a splash of paint on her lackluster abilities in the hopes people will finally stop just using Razorwing, along with a hand full of admittedly much appreciated QoL updates. Neither of which constitutes an actual Rework. 

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2 minutes ago, Troposphere6 said:

If you come across negatively no one will listen to you. Thralls aren't necessarily mind controlled all the word means is servant you also didn't address the eidolon consuming the Vombulysts to regain health which they do in there second phase. Personally that's vampiric enough for me, and since Revenant is not fundimentally broken like ember was I doubt you'll see anything more than small tweaks if anything to him.

That’s 1 vampire like feature vs the several  other features that are nothing like vampires. Yet the majority of Revenants kit is vampire themed. there are also a handful of other things in the Warframe lore that drain health that aren’t vampires. Just because something shares a common attribute with something else doesn’t mean they are also that other thing. Also, the reason Revenant is vampire themed to begin with has absolutely nothing to do with Warframes lore or anything. It’s literally because Rebecca wanted a vampire frame and they let her lead his design for some unknown reason.

Also my 6,068 reputation will have to disagree with you on that “No one will listen to you” statement. Also the fact that you personally are reading and responding to my comment so you are very clearly listening.

Thrall

noun

the state of being in someone's power or having great power over someone.

A slave, servant, or captive.

Also an Orc from WoW

Also I’m realizing I really overuse also a lot.

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On 2019-10-12 at 10:55 AM, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

must correct you on trin. she was used with her link ability and catanas but it was nerfed by DE ASAP. but i do agree on other part of your post

I was referring to Loki and Banshee as the ones who haven't had their kits touched in any meaningful way. Well, except some minor nerfs and QoL changes(recastable sonar, cast while moving for Loki). Trinity did have a big change twice, when her blessing went from complete invulnerability to IIRC 90, and then to 75 because of link bombing. I could be mistaken, though.

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I think Loki needs the most after Ember and Vauban. His 1 doesn't scale and his 3 has no real use in combat. 

For his decoy I would make it scale like Saryn's Molt, which means he absorbs damage for 3 seconds and transforms it into health. 

For his teleport I suggest that he places an hologram on the enemy after switching places, forcing enemies to shoot at the target, maybe leaving a bomb with him that explodes after a few seconds. This would make it far more different than Ash's teleport, while still staying true to his roots as trickster.

Besides Loki I think Valkyr needs one too, especially her 1 and 3. Her 1 suffered with parkour and her 3 only allows her to use a finisher on 1 enemy or 2, but nobody uses it.

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Lets list them all:
Universal*: Damage abilities DON'T scale due to a set amount of arbitrary damage that good for star chart enemies, but not enemies veterans will face.
Universal**: Abilities that RELY on AI and contradicts active play in favor of AFK play. Often unreliable or wages effectiveness to a chance at doing what you think it will do
Universal***: Abilities that are not recastable where it would otherwise make sense to be able to. Augments that alleviate this does not count as you lose out on a mod slot.
Ash: Shuriken is Strictly worse Nyx's Psychic bolts even with the armor strip augment, Smoke Screen duration too short
Atlas: Tectonics has niche use case, Petrify is too energy expensive for 60 degrees of CC, Rumblers *+**
Banshee: Sonic boom is awkward Psychic bolts, Silence doesnt work well with public lobbies, and Sound Quake *
Baruuk: Elude is AFK leech mode, Lull is lul except less versatile compared to Sleepquinox, Serene Storm * and does not work off energy;
Chroma: Spectral scream*, Elemental Ward*** Effigy *+**
Ember: We'll see. Currently has no survivability, entire kit*
Day Equinox: Rage is strictly worse rip off of speedva, Provoke is too energy expensive for the gains,
Night Equinox: Mend is strictly worse than trinity's well of life
Excalibur: Slash Dash* though you can use this to fly in perhaps what is a low key exploit, Radial Javalin*
Frost: Freeze*, Ice Wave*, Snow Globe blocks incoming friendly fire, Avalanche*
Gara: Spectrorage**
Garuda: Doesnt like being healed
Gauss: is fine, his kit is OP but currently buggy with redline often disabling his movement when using operator
Harrow: has no survivability in neither stats nor abilities. Can be healed by Penance after getting 1 shotted. His entire kit doesn't work when KSed in public lobby. Solo frame
Hildryn: Balefire*, instantly dies to gas and slash proccs, literally Godsend for energy reduction sortie, literally trash in no-shield nightmare modes
Hydroid: entire kit suffers from *, is also slow in terms of animations for a fast paced game
Inaros: Devour*, sandstorm*
Khora: Venari **
Limbo: AFK leech exploit passive, entire kit can single handedly turn a mission into one where it cannot be completed, can troll the hell out of new players, can prevent friendly fire outright, can be used to prevent missions such as Boss activations from occurring via AFK without consequence, can be colored to make rift invisible to further troll veteran players
Loki: Decoy has very niche use case (either AI exploit or to use with his Switch teleport)
Mag: No survivability, no healing in her kit, damage oriented glass cannon, Magnetize***,Polarize*, Crush*
Mesa: ballistic battery* in the time it takes you to setup ballistic battery, holding down mouse 1 would have done 3 times more damage in the same amount of time, shooting gallery*** shatter shield***
Mirage: Hall of Mirrors***, Sleight of Hand*+**, Eclipse is unreliable, DE should have divided her two abilities in Eclipse into her 2nd and third ability instead (since nobody uses Sleight of hand) Prism* and is an energy guzzler with perhaps the SLOWEST CASTING ANIMATION of all the warframes
Nekros: Soul punch exploit, Terrify is strictly worse Speedva and Slova, Shadows of the Dead** cannot be modded properly in conjunction with his other 3 abilities
Nezha: Divine Speers*
Nidus: Slow to setup. Wont reach 30% of potential by the time the average mission is finished, Virulence cast speed is inversely proportional to range, Larva***
Nova: Portal is Niche gimmick and cannot be modded for feasible range while maximizing duration for her other 3 abilties
Nyx: Mind Control**, Chaos**, Absorb has insufficient range to hit anything as most AI attack at 20m. Having 10m base while being unable to move, unable to shoot, and unable to anything makes her augment 100% mandatory.
Oberon: Good support but his kit all suffers from scaling (* damage and healing)
Octavia: SUPER OP, except her feasibility is tied to making the MOST ANNOYING of songs to spam crouch and play dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun....
Revenant: Reave Instant kill Exploit, cannot control elevation during Danse Macabre
Rhino: Rhino Charge*, Iron Skin***, Roar*** damage buff values are insanely low relative to Chroma or Mirage's Damage buff, Rhino Stomp* and Not technically recasteable as doing so before the previous stomp expires will neither refresh the CC nor deal damage to the affected AI
Saryn: Molt is niche healing decoy, Toxic Lash is borderline non-scaling
Titania: confusing kit, can make AI invulnerable and thus make missions impossible to complete, hard to discern the buffs, as Spellbind, Tribute and Lantern are pretty much the same thing
Trinity: Well of Life and Vampire leech desires negative duration, while Link and Blessing desires positive duration. Link suffers from abnormally low base duration of 12 seconds
Valkyr: OH BABY, is she beaten to death with a stick 7 times over for her Hysteria, Warcry*** and suffers from low base duration of 15 seconds, Paralysis Suffers from low base range of 10m, her Hysteria deserves her own article. Reduced to Exalted claws with little to no damage scaling, limited range (one of the worst melee ranges possible), damage absorbed is stored and instant kills valkyr when abruptly nullified or deactivated near even 1 enemy AI, has a high energy cost, energy cost progressively gets worse, invulnerability is removed when aim gliding or shooting your guns due to recent update, energy drain persists because quick switch does not deactivate hysteria's energy drain even though you gain nothing from her Hysteria in the meantime. According to her patch notes, her invincibility was exploited to warrant 2 energy drain nerfs, with a subsequent bug fix that removed an apparent double stacking of efficiency mods, but the energy drain nerfs persisted. Due to her high armor, stacking 2 arcane graces can achieve the same invulnerability for 99% of the game's content without ever using her Hysteria making the ability completely unjustifiable to use with the exception of enemy instant kill abilities such as orb mother explosions and absurd endurance scaling past a couple of hours.
Vauban: We'll see, Currently has only CC abilities and gimmicks that make him more of a clown than an engineer
Volt: Shock*, Speed suffers from Low duration and possible affinity exploit, Discharge*
Wisp: Sol Gate, though scaling, suffers from relatively low scaling compared to other ultimates from other frames
Zephyr: Tail wind*, Air Burst*, Turbulance***, Tornado*+** though tornado does scale in terms of applying status effects

 

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Rework Excalibro? What?  He's probably the most balanced and generally capable Warframe in the game.

My nomination is for Valkyr. Power and ability creep, and Operator Mode, has made her entirely redundant.

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2 hours ago, Highlord83 said:

Rework Excalibro? What?  He's probably the most balanced and generally capable Warframe in the game.

His 3 needs a touch up, it really really REALLY has no purpose in the current state it is in, I mean, you could use the augment, but at that point you likely already have a Melee build that doesn't need it.

Otherwise I fully agree he doesn't need anything...other than his 3 not being...terrible.

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10 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

I was referring to Loki and Banshee as the ones who haven't had their kits touched in any meaningful way. Well, except some minor nerfs and QoL changes(recastable sonar, cast while moving for Loki). Trying did have a big change twice, when her blessing went from complete invulnerability to IIRC 90, and then to 75 because of link bombing. I could be mistaken, though.

I dont remember anything about loki tweaks. about banshee mostly QoL and her 4th is reworked to be more interactive with game. trins bless went down to not be 100 dmg reduction and bess range is now aff range instead of cast range, nerf link. 

most players go speed and dur on loki. no armor o health or what ever. prob with both are survivability, basic stats are low for armor and health. if you run into aicent toxic 1 fart and you are gone. and imagine this loki disarm ability not gonna work on infested xD 

also this ppl tend to put arcane for speed on loki. however DE should change it from damaged to ability cast(irony for loki, get dmg to receive sprint boost, it would be batter to receive that boost on ability cast and other frames would have benefits from it).

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4 hours ago, -HoB-AngelofRevenge said:

I dont remember anything about loki tweaks. about banshee mostly QoL and her 4th is reworked to be more interactive with game. trins bless went down to not be 100 dmg reduction and bess range is now aff range instead of cast range, nerf link. 

most players go speed and dur on loki. no armor o health or what ever. prob with both are survivability, basic stats are low for armor and health. if you run into aicent toxic 1 fart and you are gone. and imagine this loki disarm ability not gonna work on infested xD 

also this ppl tend to put arcane for speed on loki. however DE should change it from damaged to ability cast(irony for loki, get dmg to receive sprint boost, it would be batter to receive that boost on ability cast and other frames would have benefits from it).

Banshee's sonar wasn't recastable in the past. Her 3's duration got nerfed slightly last year to "put it in line with her other abilities." But nah, Loki doesn't need survivability as much as the enemies with such dangerous attacks need better tells, audio ones in particular. Not everything is always best fixed by increasing some base stat - that's one of the reasons warframe's balance is a mess and its gameplay diversity is shrinking. It's an easy fix, sure, but not one that benefits the game in the long term.

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every older wf need some care

just look some qol changes buffs or dmg changes for better scaling etc.

my personal wish

atlas- he got prime maybe some rework inc.

banshe her abilities are rather bland - like her 1 and ult ...

CHroma ...

frost 1 2 AND THAT STUPID passive

inaros qol at least

loki cuz of 2 usseful skills

mesa 

mirage  qol

nekros need full rework cuz his only usseful skill is 3 

nidus need some care 

nova qol

nyx some real REWORK 

octavia qol

rhino

titania real rework

trinity 

zephyr plox

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On 2019-10-05 at 9:31 AM, Hexsing said:

Trinity is good. But she's burnout in a box.  I love her so I wont say hurtful words.

The trouble with Trin is that she is strong but not mechanically interesting, and if you make her combat interesting for yourself, some of her idiosyncrasies hold her back.

  • Nobody uses Well of Life. It's minor healing with much more input required than the major healing her Blessing does with next to no input.
  • Energy Vampire is just one-click Energy economy breakdown. As long as she has 50 Energy, Trin gets to waive Energy costs for everyone. While this kind of power isn't necessarily bad, having this ability require some attention or input would make her less of a burnout machine.
  • Link is fine, but clunky.
  • Blessing is fine but similarly bland, one-click-done.

Some ideas, of my own and gleaned from others across the Forums:

  • Do more-or-less a swap of mechanics of her 1 and 2. Have the healing be automatic and EV require players to attack a target to receive Energy. Experiment perhaps with not holding affected enemies stationary and instead creating a zone of enemies around the original target which share the effects to make Trin a shot-caller. Or have these wellsprings be stationary and with an additional effect in a radius (like a small DR within 10m of Well of Life, for example) to open defensive map-play options.
  • Have Link become one-handed to cast, and (dare I say it) recastable.
  • Do something cool with Blessing. Perhaps instead of just Healing and a DR depending on how much ally health is missing, add a meter to Trin that charges when damage is dealt to allies or mitiagted by any of Trin's abilities. Casting Blessing at certain levels of the meter will impart certain effects -- for example, filling up enough of the meter could prompt a Speed Boost, extra Health regen, added Power Strength, or something else, for a time after Blessing is cast. This makes the ultimate feel more rewarding when used tactically and de-incentivizes spamming it.

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On 2019-10-05 at 6:06 AM, .OwOkin. said:

but i do think that she kinda lacking in survivability.

 

On 2019-10-05 at 6:20 AM, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Last thing Banshee needs is a passive buff to survivability IMO, but an active one that encourages synergistic ability use.

I defs agree with the latter here. I like that at least one frame remains without an ability that keeps the frame alive for the player automatically. Staying alive as Banshee is about using her kit and your own awareness -- Sonar highlights threats around you, Silence gives you a moment to pre-empt approaching threats, and Sonic Boom covers you when something gets past those defenses. Banshee is old but classic, and her ability design is simple yet excellent.

The only thing flying in the face of that is Soundquake. It's pretty much the opposite of all that, locking you down in one spot while you deal effortless but low damage in a wide area and messing with anyone trying to hit those Sonar spots you set up. I honestly think Banshee would be perfect if they just replaced Soundquake with something that enhances her ability to track, subdue and repel enemies. I honestly can't think of anything, but I'm all ears for things that could help keep Banshee as high-risk, high-reward as the rest of her kit makes her.

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Loki needs a rework, mostly to his Decoy and Switch Teleport. I'd say something that enables the crowd control that he is supposed to be there for. I can't stand him as he is. I wouldn't say no to Valkyr or Mesa rework. As someone who enjoys Mirage, though, I would absolutley love for Slight of Hand to be changed into something that actually works.

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On 2019-10-12 at 6:23 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Mesmer skin needs to go. It’s literally preventing Danse Macabre from scaling. Also it’s mechanics have nothing to do with Eidolons or Sentients.

Danse Macabre needs to go. That's the most ridiculously unnecessary power in his kit.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)R3N36AD3 said:

Danse Macabre needs to go. That's the most ridiculously unnecessary power in his kit.

It’s the only part of his kit that actually fits the Eidolon theme.

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Isn't titania getting some tweaks so she'll sell better when she's primed?

Other then that banshee, nekros, loki, trinity could use some love.

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21 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s the only part of his kit that actually fits the Eidolon theme.

Revenant is an Eidolon?! 😳

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