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XJR15

Difficulty Levels suggestion.

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How about, after you clear planets u can have an difficulty option to go through them again but with higher level enemies? Example clear it once u unlock advanced difficulty bringing all enemies to level 50 - 60 when u select that difficulty, clear it again at that level u unlock expert difficulty bringing all enemies to level 80 - 100.

Thoughts?

 

Also, if the developers cant think of a better idea how about just a straight up difficulty option for fun for enemies across the whole solar system to be at levels 50 - 60, 80 - 100 like the sortie missions. u could call it advanced, expert levels for example. Just for fun. Cause ive got highly leveled trinity prime, mesa prime, saryn prime, gauss, and im sure other players have highly skilled warframes that are well built that can easily beat most of the content in this game that would love to always play at challenging levels. ive been playing since 2014 off and on. This game is pretty solid, sunk tons of cash into it because its alot of fun and will continue to do so, especially if they put in difficulty levels like the sortie to make the game more fun for experienced players that like playing with maxed out warframes. Game just needs more content to accomodate the maxed warframe builds.

 

you could give the increased difficulty levels more loot drop to add to the fun as well.

 

Thoughts?

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Posted (edited)

the problem that comes with offering this, is it means segmenting the Playerbase even more, by multiplying the number of Missions in the game.
2 Difficulty levels halves the Playerbase, 4 quarters it, Et Cetera.

the avenue that say, Onslaught went for is more ideal (multiple Difficulty levels but it's just one Mission so having 2 vs 1 is ok). or just the Solar Map as it is, as we have Gamemodes at various Levels already, there's plenty of segmentation in that form as is.

Edited by taiiat
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bro i think they said the willl never use ay suggestion in this devstream so it may be the best suggestion but whats the use

and the problem with your concept is just because it is higher level it doesnt count as  difficult content it s like sorties and that is not a difficult content

 difficult content is not just increase level  eg u can put a end goal that separate  u from every other player that takes time and dedication to get in a way that is difficult content

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Posted (edited)

 

Il y a 2 heures, XJR15 a dit :

Also, if the developers cant think of a better idea how about just a straight up difficulty option for fun for enemies across the whole solar system to be at levels 50 - 60, 80 - 100 like the sortie missions. u could call it advanced, expert levels for example. Just for fun. Cause ive got highly leveled trinity prime, mesa prime, saryn prime, gauss, and im sure other players have highly skilled warframes that are well built that can easily beat most of the content in this game that would love to always play at challenging levels. ive been playing since 2014 off and on. This game is pretty solid, sunk tons of cash into it because its alot of fun and will continue to do so, especially if they put in difficulty levels like the sortie to make the game more fun for experienced players that like playing with maxed out warframes. Game just needs more content to accomodate the maxed warframe builds.

Level 100 is not difficult... Really not a little bit...

And I mean, the skill cap is very low in this game. Just look at the frames you play, push one two button to win for most.

The lack of challenge is a reccurent topic. And its just not possible. The game balance is just too terrible. Killing level 2000 enemies is not really hard its more about avoiding a random one shot. So yeah i would not say the game is solid, too much flaws for that. But its still fun.

Edited by belanya

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I personally have fun playing highly leveled warframes. Playing against level 80 - 100 enemies on more maps like say a survival map would be a grace of god if the developers did this for me. There are plenty of players in the game that like playing their high leveled warframes and the game just needs more high level content like sorties to accomodate this and the elite onslaught sanctuary. To better scale the balance of the fun factor of this game. I personally like killing stuff so this game suits me well having an option to increase the levels of the mobs on planets for more difficulty would alleviate the fact this game can get really easy when u put enough time and effort into it. It just needs better difficulty scaling as u hit peak with your warframes, weapons, and gear.

I understand not everyone enjoys a warframe from 1 person to the next we all have our personal opinions and if these difficulty levels were implemented, you wouldnt have to partake in them as increasing the difficulty of the enemies would be optional i appreciate the feedback nonetheless.

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On 2019-10-04 at 7:56 PM, taiiat said:

the problem that comes with offering this, is it means segmenting the Playerbase even more, by multiplying the number of Missions in the game.
2 Difficulty levels halves the Playerbase, 4 quarters it, Et Cetera.

the avenue that say, Onslaught went for is more ideal (multiple Difficulty levels but it's just one Mission so having 2 vs 1 is ok). or just the Solar Map as it is, as we have Gamemodes at various Levels already, there's plenty of segmentation in that form as is.

There is the Recruiting Channel in the chat channels of the game. So if you want more players to join you on your missions u can recruit people there.

Also if there is more gamemodes besides Sortie and elite sanctuary onslaught for high level of play, please let me know, i really enjoy playing maxed level warframes and high level content is my preferred playstyle.

Too be honest there really isn't enough. Ive been playing this game off and on since 2014 when my friends from Left 4 Dead introduced me into the game. As far as I can tell, the only high level content in the game is Sorties, and elite sanctuary onslaught and this 1 other thing I heard of that I dont have access to is from having everything on the map completed to unlock it.

Once again having various difficulty levels that go from 50 - 60  80 - 100 would IMPROVE the game not be detrimental to the game, as it increases the Skill Factor of the game and increased skill required makes the game more fun for some people, as the whole point of this game is killing stuff and having fun, so this would help indeed.

Also there was some other guy that said having enemies 1000+ levels higher wouldnt make a difference that the game would still be easy, not true. A level 100+ orokin rocket launcher grineer can kill u in 1 - 2 shots at Mot if u play long enough (sorry forgot the name) I died 2 times there on my 50 minute run as Mesa Prime on public but alone the whole time, 1 from those nightwave assassins cause they can do some massive damage if u arent ready for them, 2 from the rocket launcher orokin grineer, i was 1 shotted but managed to adapt and get him and the rest of them. All without using any umbras, which even further stretches the end-game of this game, which like i said, means they need to have more high level options for increased replayabiltiy and fun-factor. this game is fun if u know what u are doing.

Also, its not this game is easy, its kind of like dynasty warriors 3 / dynasty warriors 3 xtreme legends, but with no Very Hard mode. it just needs more modes of difficult play since its an MMO style game, i dont know about u guys but im tired of easy MMOs they are so big and offer so much, but sometimes they are just too damn easy, the AI is there, there just needs to be more difficulty scaling options and when it gets right down to it, if you cant find the people for the difficulty you just use recrutiing channel. problem solved.

I plan on Umbra'ing my Mesa Prime next with Umbra Intensify and Umbra Vitality, since i have so much fun playing her, she reminds me of Nisha Kadam from Borderlands Pre Sequel and Borderlands 2 who is pretty badass like mesa prime. Nisha from Borderlands Pre Sequel has a move similar to mesa's peacemaker skill called Showdown which allows u to gundown enemies similar to peacemaker, its not cheap or easy mode, its just fun game design, its designed to be fun and to test your limits to see how much you can handle no matter what the computer throws at you.

Pix of my Mot Run and Mesa Prime so u can see this game just needs more difficulty options.

Mot Run https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1882915066

more stats

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1882916894

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1882916912

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1882916922

 

Mesa Prime Build: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1882921960

Mesa Prime Weapons / Gear and Focus School:  https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1882921982

 

 

id pay for it too. i sunk tons of cash into this game, would hate for the devs to overlook difficulty settings cause they do improve the longevity and replayabiltiy and fun factor of a game for Beginners, Intermediate, and Professionals. a straight up level system is ok but it needs more and frankly, they are only really seen in MMOs and are quite flawed as a whole if they dont scale with player level either up or down depending on the difficulty level of the enemy. like how they have platinum purchases in the game,  example they have bronze, silver, and gold level purchases, they just need difficulty options for the game like that, then u can just use recruiting channel to get some buddies and then roll with them for a hour or 2 through the gold level of difficulty for example, and it could be 80 - 100 enemies, anywhere on the solar map, i dont care if it costs plat to unlock and u can grab ppl for the ride from recruiting this is needed for the longevity of the game and would make the devs more money in the long run if they do this.

 

thank you for your time.

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, XJR15 said:

There is the Recruiting Channel in the chat channels of the game. So if you want more players to join you on your missions u can recruit people there.

that is irrelevant. Matchmaking is the fundamental backbone of Multiplayer games, they do not grow without it.
content segmentation is always a problem, and needs to be minimized as much as possible so that the Multi part of Multiplayer works.

spreading Players out at an extreme level doesn't help Video Games, far from it. that's simply just a fact, tested over decades of Video Games.
that doesn't mean that you can't offer options, but options must not conflict with Multiplayer Matchmaking (you can get away with a small percentage of a games' content not being Matchmaking friendly, but only a small percentage).

 

 

here's a snippet from a conversation about content segmentation i had just yesterday, actually.

Quote

relatedly, Trove has a 'tiered Solar Map' in a way too, however you aren't forced to ever go back to the lower Tier regions as the style of that design lets higher Tier regions contain the lower Tier regions, but scaled up to higher Difficulty, and with Rewards to coincide. which isn't necessarily something to copy as Warframe couldn't quite do that by design anyways, but, it's an interesting way to avoid that ladder backfiring once one has climbed to the top.

 

which the takeaway from that shape i guess is, rather than Difficulty being intrinsically tied to content, that game is separated by Difficulty, with all content inside of each Difficulty.

the extrospection there, is looking at a design that shares some similarities with Warframe (as that game essentially has a 'Solar Map' too), but seeing that the way it is segmented, is almost entirely based on Difficulty, rather than content type.

which in play, in that game, each 'Difficulty Tier', is essentially the entire Warframe Solar Map. *

Warframe is segmenting in both ways currently, so as i tried to allude in that conversation, is that the other game referenced has almost all game content available at all 'Difficulty Tiers'. so that massively reduces the segmentation issue, as Players at __ Stat progression can go to the same places for a Matchmaking-esque friendly experience. 
Difficulty levels, offered without exploding segmentation to the extreme.

in context of Warframe, there were some considerations to keep in mind that prevent something like that from currently being possible (whether or not it's a good idea not being considered, just possibility at all).

Quote

i mean i guess but then the Solar Map is honestly like 6x the size it is in 'actuality'. since it's just different Levels and Tiles vs different Enemies, the Missions are literally the same.

even the unique Missions on the Solar Map are beholden to Enemy Levels though, including the less unique ones - so if you want to play in __ setting, that changes the ""Difficulty".

doesn't help that it includes more than just Enemy EHP/Damage, the Levels of the Missions changes a lot more than that. which is great as you go from the start to the 'end' progression wise, but it's a one time thing and once you go through that increasing path once, it's instantly useless

so, these considerations do hurt the possibility of segmenting content in that way. tl;dr how many say, Mobile Defense Missions do we really have in the game? if we go with each Tileset and each Faction, we already have like 3-4x too many of them. and even then, how actually different is a Mobile Defense on say Sedna from a Mobile Defense on Mercury? the only thing different is the scenery, and the 'difficulty level'.
well, ok. so what if you didn't have so many extra duplicates of the same Missions then? well that reduces the segmentation problems caused by segmenting by Difficulty, and opens that up as a viable option. is it a good option? eh, idunno, but it's an option then.

 

*: so, let's think about that a bit. Railjack and such could offer the opportunity to make the entire Solar Map one large place? then this suddenly becomes a lot more viable, doesn't it. we could have 2, 3, perhaps 4 'Tiers' (since we have 4 Mission Reward Tier types currently, perhaps 4 is the ideal) of the Solar Map, that are exact duplicates of each other, but different 'Difficulty levels'.

if you pair that with some basic Fast Travel features (like say, you can fast Travel to any region that you have physically gone to before, nice and simple like how most fully Open World games do), then it starts to sound even more viable.
but it would still necessitate deflating the Solar Map further, to essentially one of each Gamemode per Tileset/region, and no more since then it is a total waste. plus the unique out of main map stuff like Onslaught and Et Cetera, but those all fit in just fine since they generally have their own Difficulty segmentation as it is.

- - - - - 

 

29 minutes ago, XJR15 said:

Also there was some other guy that said having enemies 1000+ levels higher wouldnt make a difference that the game would still be easy, not true. 

actually, that's exactly true. Enemies don't get more interesting or more difficult with Level Scaling, they just scale some generic Stats just the same as we scale our own generic Stats.
so yes, a Lv1000 Mission is essentially the same as a Lv10 Mission. because the Enemies are still the same, your Objectives are still the same. nothing changed.

i'd certainly love for the Missions in the game to have Difficulties that are less lame-o, so that i can play everything at a Stat scaling Level that makes everything about the game feel good - but the amount that i bother scaling generic Stat Leveling is pretty limited because since nothing changes, it's just Stats vs Stats and there's hardly much Player Skill involved in that. if Enemies got more interersting, or atleast weren't filled with 90-95% garbage Enemies that exist to be boring and useless, then i'd be much more welcome to it.
any games of this type already make necessary 'difficulty' reductions by limiting what Enemies can do, so that it's possible to actually play. games have to nerf themselves to make bland Stat scaling work. which just shows me time and time again that bland Stat scaling isn't the right thing to do since it doesn't work.

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1 hour ago, taiiat said:

that is irrelevant. Matchmaking is the fundamental backbone of Multiplayer games, they do not grow without it.
content segmentation is always a problem, and needs to be minimized as much as possible so that the Multi part of Multiplayer works.

spreading Players out at an extreme level doesn't help Video Games, far from it. that's simply just a fact, tested over decades of Video Games.
that doesn't mean that you can't offer options, but options must not conflict with Multiplayer Matchmaking (you can get away with a small percentage of a games' content not being Matchmaking friendly, but only a small percentage).

 

 

here's a snippet from a conversation about content segmentation i had just yesterday, actually.

the extrospection there, is looking at a design that shares some similarities with Warframe (as that game essentially has a 'Solar Map' too), but seeing that the way it is segmented, is almost entirely based on Difficulty, rather than content type.

which in play, in that game, each 'Difficulty Tier', is essentially the entire Warframe Solar Map. *

Warframe is segmenting in both ways currently, so as i tried to allude in that conversation, is that the other game referenced has almost all game content available at all 'Difficulty Tiers'. so that massively reduces the segmentation issue, as Players at __ Stat progression can go to the same places for a Matchmaking-esque friendly experience. 
Difficulty levels, offered without exploding segmentation to the extreme.

in context of Warframe, there were some considerations to keep in mind that prevent something like that from currently being possible (whether or not it's a good idea not being considered, just possibility at all).

so, these considerations do hurt the possibility of segmenting content in that way. tl;dr how many say, Mobile Defense Missions do we really have in the game? if we go with each Tileset and each Faction, we already have like 3-4x too many of them. and even then, how actually different is a Mobile Defense on say Sedna from a Mobile Defense on Mercury? the only thing different is the scenery, and the 'difficulty level'.
well, ok. so what if you didn't have so many extra duplicates of the same Missions then? well that reduces the segmentation problems caused by segmenting by Difficulty, and opens that up as a viable option. is it a good option? eh, idunno, but it's an option then.

 

*: so, let's think about that a bit. Railjack and such could offer the opportunity to make the entire Solar Map one large place? then this suddenly becomes a lot more viable, doesn't it. we could have 2, 3, perhaps 4 'Tiers' (since we have 4 Mission Reward Tier types currently, perhaps 4 is the ideal) of the Solar Map, that are exact duplicates of each other, but different 'Difficulty levels'.

if you pair that with some basic Fast Travel features (like say, you can fast Travel to any region that you have physically gone to before, nice and simple like how most fully Open World games do), then it starts to sound even more viable.
but it would still necessitate deflating the Solar Map further, to essentially one of each Gamemode per Tileset/region, and no more since then it is a total waste. plus the unique out of main map stuff like Onslaught and Et Cetera, but those all fit in just fine since they generally have their own Difficulty segmentation as it is.

- - - - - 

 

actually, that's exactly true. Enemies don't get more interesting or more difficult with Level Scaling, they just scale some generic Stats just the same as we scale our own generic Stats.
so yes, a Lv1000 Mission is essentially the same as a Lv10 Mission. because the Enemies are still the same, your Objectives are still the same. nothing changed.

i'd certainly love for the Missions in the game to have Difficulties that are less lame-o, so that i can play everything at a Stat scaling Level that makes everything about the game feel good - but the amount that i bother scaling generic Stat Leveling is pretty limited because since nothing changes, it's just Stats vs Stats and there's hardly much Player Skill involved in that. if Enemies got more interersting, or atleast weren't filled with 90-95% garbage Enemies that exist to be boring and useless, then i'd be much more welcome to it.
any games of this type already make necessary 'difficulty' reductions by limiting what Enemies can do, so that it's possible to actually play. games have to nerf themselves to make bland Stat scaling work. which just shows me time and time again that bland Stat scaling isn't the right thing to do since it doesn't work.

OK I see where you are coming from but the devs should still implement a new difficulty system or revamp it like how they did with this game overtime as a whole. would be better than leaving it how it is, cause as it is, as a fps gamer for over 19 years this game is pretty easy and could use a difficulty system or a revamp of the games said difficulty as a whole.

in other words, i respect your point of view and your opinion and insight but still wish the devs eventually investigate making this game more challenging somewhere down the line either through a difficulty system where u can select difficulties to determine enemy strength as opposed to a level system that just scales around as u go around the star system.

like i said if they just revamp the level/difficulty system like how they did the star chart and other various things in this game over time that would work too.

thank you for your constructive input and feedback.

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what would be the point? levels don't supply a ton of difficulty in this game presently so upping them would really just be cosmetic and for showmanship.

i get the want for a more difficult (or engaging as i prefer to call it) game state in warframe where some level of reaction and mental involvement is compelled, but the reality is that's not particularly possible in warframe at the moment without rebalancing players tools, or just a near full redesign of most of the games missions and enemy encounters to match this entirely new scale of player power. just upping numbers wouldn't work as we can observe through any number of high end duration runs, we've outscaled scaling, all that's left is ranges of redesigns and rebalances, it's partial to why de designs bosses the way they do now with so many mechanical limiters and immunities, it's the only way to achieve a level of engagement or difficulty within the current game state. 

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-10-06 at 8:08 PM, Cubewano said:

what would be the point? levels don't supply a ton of difficulty in this game presently so upping them would really just be cosmetic and for showmanship.

i get the want for a more difficult (or engaging as i prefer to call it) game state in warframe where some level of reaction and mental involvement is compelled, but the reality is that's not particularly possible in warframe at the moment without rebalancing players tools, or just a near full redesign of most of the games missions and enemy encounters to match this entirely new scale of player power. just upping numbers wouldn't work as we can observe through any number of high end duration runs, we've outscaled scaling, all that's left is ranges of redesigns and rebalances, it's partial to why de designs bosses the way they do now with so many mechanical limiters and immunities, it's the only way to achieve a level of engagement or difficulty within the current game state. 

If the devs put in difficulty settings for the game as opposed to just ppl going through levels u would see a difference as the AI could match your power. Game designers have been doing this since games were invented. im not shooting u down im just saying difficulty settings arent out of the question for a game like this, it doesnt have to stay a cheap boring level system. devs have redesigned things in this game before, level system could use it. or difficulty settings could be added that u can apply before going into a level , sort of like how u can choose which region u are playing the game in to determine which players in the world u are playing with depending on time zone, etc. this would be no different and the game could use it given how easy this game is since u can attain so much power with a warframe.

Here i'll give an example of a game of left 4 dead 2 modification i made. basically it makes l4d2 campaign / coop more fun and engaging.

 

Basically i upped the difficulty of the game by making the Artificial Intelligence of the Campaign A.I. to be more responsive and faster to be better tailored toward experienced First Person Shooter Players. So with that good challenges are able to be met in L4D2 on all difficulties (we were playing this 1 on advanced).

 

My point is if the devs of this game gave difficulty settings in this game where it can make the A.I more responsive / aggressive / fire more rounds / etc. instead of just health / damage scaling you would see the challenge come back even for fully maxed out warframes.  example it could work like this normal setting, what we have now. advanced setting, all enemies scaled to your warframes power level and A.I. is more responsive and aggressive like what u see in that l4d2 modification video.

 

also here is the mod if u play left 4 dead 2 and run a server and wanted to try it out yourself https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=314630

Edited by XJR15

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Not against it.  But we already have difficulty settings as it where.

Via sorties, nightmare missions, the bounties being increasing levels, and in endless mission modes the ai will constantly scale up.

When we get kuva liches they too scale up as we kill them.

I don't think de can actually ever make a challenge mode hardcore players would ever actually be happy with.

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11 minutes ago, XJR15 said:

If the devs put in difficulty settings for the game as opposed to just ppl going through levels u would see a difference as the AI could match your power. Game designers have been doing this since games were invented. im not shooting u down im just saying difficulty settings arent out of the question for a game like this, it doesnt have to stay a cheap boring level system. devs have redesigned things in this game before, level system could use it. or difficulty settings could be added that u can apply before going into a level , sort of like how u can choose which region u are playing the game in to determine which players in the world u are playing with depending on time zone, etc. this would be no different and the game could use it given how easy this game is since u can attain so much power with a warframe.

Here i'll give an example of a game of left 4 dead 2 modification i made. basically it makes l4d2 campaign / coop more fun and engaging.

 

Basically i upped the difficulty of the game by making the Artificial Intelligence of the Campaign A.I. to be more responsive and faster to be better tailored toward experienced First Person Shooter Players. So with that good challenges are able to be met in L4D2 on all difficulties (we were playing this 1 on advanced).

 

My point is if the devs of this game gave difficulty settings in this game where it can make the A.I more responsive / aggressive / fire more rounds / etc. instead of just health / damage scaling you would see the challenge come back even for fully maxed out warframes.  example it could work like this normal setting, what we have now. advanced setting, all enemies scaled to your warframes power level and A.I. is more responsive and aggressive like what u see in that l4d2 modification video.

Upping the responsiveness of enemies in a game where we can effectively perma toggle ai and fire high damage self scaling dps from outside los while equipped with a built in high efficiency low cooldown iframe + high mobility panic button for easy getaway/self correction is not going to be enough to provide a proper difficult, simply because those enemies aren't afforded room to respond, and where they are we have been afforded so many counter measures to invalidate such endeavors that said responses are incapable of holding an impact. Players exist in a current state of no weaknesses more or less, with incredible damage, range, speed, durability, and reaction times, to levels just not counterable by standard upgrades to our current enemy designs, hence my note we'd need to just fully redesign the approach to combat if we want to match the current levels of player power while creating some semblance of difficulty/engagement. We've in effect outscaled this games entire approach to combat. Bosses are the only semblance of difficulty/engagement left in the game and that's because the approach to them has been heavily redesigned over the years in pace with our increasingly bloated power pool through a number of power walls and ability immunities to prevent our essentially limitless power potential from just insta gibbing them. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, XJR15 said:

If the devs put in difficulty settings for the game as opposed to just ppl going through levels u would see a difference as the AI could match your power. Game designers have been doing this since games were invented. im not shooting u down im just saying difficulty settings arent out of the question for a game like this, it doesnt have to stay a cheap boring level system. devs have redesigned things in this game before, level system could use it. or difficulty settings could be added that u can apply before going into a level , sort of like how u can choose which region u are playing the game in to determine which players in the world u are playing with depending on time zone, etc. this would be no different and the game could use it given how easy this game is since u can attain so much power with a warframe.

Here i'll give an example of a game of left 4 dead 2 modification i made. basically it makes l4d2 campaign / coop more fun and engaging.

 

Basically i upped the difficulty of the game by making the Artificial Intelligence of the Campaign A.I. to be more responsive and faster to be better tailored toward experienced First Person Shooter Players. So with that good challenges are able to be met in L4D2 on all difficulties (we were playing this 1 on advanced).

 

My point is if the devs of this game gave difficulty settings in this game where it can make the A.I more responsive / aggressive / fire more rounds / etc. instead of just health / damage scaling you would see the challenge come back even for fully maxed out warframes.  example it could work like this normal setting, what we have now. advanced setting, all enemies scaled to your warframes power level and A.I. is more responsive and aggressive like what u see in that l4d2 modification video.

 

also here is the mod if u play left 4 dead 2 and run a server and wanted to try it out yourself https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=314630

Cool. That works in a game like L4D2. That won't work in Waframe, where multiple frames can and will invalidate any enemies the moment they spawn, not giving them the chance to do any the fancy new behaviours you've given them. Or can just make themselves invincible and let your new enemies wail on them to no effect. While there is an issues with our enemies (namely armor scaling), changing their AI or raising their levels won't do S#&$ unless you stop us players from completely invalidating enemies with our insane crowd control.

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Im glad u guys see the power of the warframe. If u guys could change something what would u do? like to make this game more challenging?

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On 2019-10-04 at 7:44 PM, XJR15 said:

How about, after you clear planets u can have an difficulty option to go through them again but with higher level enemies? Example clear it once u unlock advanced difficulty bringing all enemies to level 50 - 60 when u select that difficulty, clear it again at that level u unlock expert difficulty bringing all enemies to level 80 - 100.

Thoughts?

 

Also, if the developers cant think of a better idea how about just a straight up difficulty option for fun for enemies across the whole solar system to be at levels 50 - 60, 80 - 100 like the sortie missions. u could call it advanced, expert levels for example. Just for fun. Cause ive got highly leveled trinity prime, mesa prime, saryn prime, gauss, and im sure other players have highly skilled warframes that are well built that can easily beat most of the content in this game that would love to always play at challenging levels. ive been playing since 2014 off and on. This game is pretty solid, sunk tons of cash into it because its alot of fun and will continue to do so, especially if they put in difficulty levels like the sortie to make the game more fun for experienced players that like playing with maxed out warframes. Game just needs more content to accomodate the maxed warframe builds.

 

you could give the increased difficulty levels more loot drop to add to the fun as well.

 

Thoughts?

Personally, I'd lock Cetus, PoE, Fortuna, Orb Vallis and Gas City until the star chart is completed. I'd have the old Jupiter tileset back until the chart is done. Max star chart level = level 40 on Uranus...which of course starts the operator quests.

Next, I'd open up the operator based quests and, once completed, Lua and the Void opens at level 50+.

From there, the open worlds, Gas City, the Void and the Derelict all start at 55+. I know that's not high enough for some but I don't want to scare off the new players.

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Maybe they could just rescale the levels so that the new level 40 = level 100 now (or higher?). That way endless missions will also give you a challenge much faster (say, within an hour?).

By keeping the current system, we avoid all the problems Diablo 3 currently has with selectable difficulties. Those problems include:

Problem #1: No gear or skill diversity. When difficulty is selectable, "viable" is defined in terms of what gear or skills can accomplish at levels the META audience dictates as the benchmark. Only the most performant warframes and weapons will be "viable." Rivens will likely become mandatory (compared to now).

Problem #2: It was mentioned already, but obviously players will be stratified by difficulty. Less obviously, there will be a hole/gap in actually used difficulties. New players will play the lowest difficulties and everyone else will play the absolute highest difficulties. This is because the META will tell everyone it's only socially acceptable to play the highest or you're a loser. Anyone who dissents will end up playing by themselves because no one will be playing the middle difficulties. There will be difficulties in between lowest and highest that absolutely no one plays. New players may also find their difficulty level is a ghost town. New D3 players often ask the forums where all the other players are... they are all in T16 now. Yes, Blizzard recently added more difficulty levels... from 4 to 20 difficulty levels in just 6 years (it went 4, then 14, then 10, then 14, then 17 and now 20).

Anyway, if DE adds selectable levels, they are opening Pandora's box IMO. All the delicately viable weapons and frames we can choose from now become only a handful of weapons and frames that can actually perform at the highest levels. Rivens will absolutely be mandatory. With more power creep will also come more selectable levels. More divide between new players and normal players... and lots of difficulties not even played (no one in D3 plays, you know Hard, Expert, Master, T1-T15).

What I think DE should do is make the Star Chart harder and to allow endless missions to scale faster (so we don't need to wait hours for more challenge). That will address the challenge issue while keeping the current delicate system (with all weapons/frames viable) alive without separating new players from all the other players. Basically I think they should do something like I wrote in the first sentence.

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb nslay:

Maybe they could just rescale the levels so that the new level 40 = level 100 now (or higher?). That way endless missions will also give you a challenge much faster (say, within an hour?).

By keeping the current system, we avoid all the problems Diablo 3 currently has with selectable difficulties. Those problems include:

Problem #1: No gear or skill diversity. When difficulty is selectable, "viable" is defined in terms of what gear or skills can accomplish at levels the META audience dictates as the benchmark. Only the most performant warframes and weapons will be "viable." Rivens will likely become mandatory (compared to now).

Problem #2: It was mentioned already, but obviously players will be stratified by difficulty. Less obviously, there will be a hole/gap in actually used difficulties. New players will play the lowest difficulties and everyone else will play the absolute highest difficulties. This is because the META will tell everyone it's only socially acceptable to play the highest or you're a loser. Anyone who dissents will end up playing by themselves because no one will be playing the middle difficulties. There will be difficulties in between lowest and highest that absolutely no one plays. New players may also find their difficulty level is a ghost town. New D3 players often ask the forums where all the other players are... they are all in T16 now. Yes, Blizzard recently added more difficulty levels... from 4 to 20 difficulty levels in just 6 years (it went 4, then 14, then 10, then 14, then 17 and now 20).

Anyway, if DE adds selectable levels, they are opening Pandora's box IMO. All the delicately viable weapons and frames we can choose from now become only a handful of weapons and frames that can actually perform at the highest levels. Rivens will absolutely be mandatory. With more power creep will also come more selectable levels. More divide between new players and normal players... and lots of difficulties not even played (no one in D3 plays, you know Hard, Expert, Master, T1-T15).

What I think DE should do is make the Star Chart harder and to allow endless missions to scale faster (so we don't need to wait hours for more challenge). That will address the challenge issue while keeping the current delicate system (with all weapons/frames viable) alive without separating new players from all the other players. Basically I think they should do something like I wrote in the first sentence.

I actually think that introducing several difficulty tiers adds to a long term engagement. There are difficulty tiers already, but once you have a set of potatoed and formaed gear they become irrelevant.

Given the current reward tables are also tied to those tiers you could just copy that to the general difficulty tiers, e.g. tier 1 being the levels as is, all relics are lith only, with increasing refinment levels as you progress through the star chart (current t3 missions would drop radiant lith relics) with world tier 2 being meso, tier 3 neo, tier 4 axi. One could also replace "bad" rewards(e.g. mods) with other rewards that are more sought after as one progresses through the tiers.

Events, Alerts could be either excluded from tiering, targeting most of the player base or also provide different rewards, based on the selected tier.

Though this would need further reworks of frames and weapons to at least provide more viable options on high level play. Meta exists now and will continue to exist, though it should not need to be mandatory to follow the meta to be able to play at the highest level.

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Currently my thoughts on difficulty and farming and this game...I'm more of a mind of wanting monsters...The Wolf of Saturn was fine...except DE always messes it up in some way with like those three invincible molotov throwing extras running around his feet.

I've fought bullet sponges before...but the player base misses the moment where the hoard pushes you together and back towards the exit...using every choke point to gain another fifteen minutes...We really need some sort of beast that does that at the hour mark..But DE will screw it up with drones or nullifiers or invincibility stages...or you getting teleported back to the boss assassin when you'e out of line of sight trying to get some distance to get health, just annoying design marks...

Personally I'd Thanos snap the entire solar map in some epic event and reduce the player to two powers over four..since we have forty frames eating each other's lunch in purpose...

Edited by (PS4)FriendSharkey

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On 2019-10-04 at 10:56 PM, taiiat said:

the problem that comes with offering this, is it means segmenting the Playerbase even more, by multiplying the number of Missions in the game.
2 Difficulty levels halves the Playerbase, 4 quarters it, Et Cetera.

the avenue that say, Onslaught went for is more ideal (multiple Difficulty levels but it's just one Mission so having 2 vs 1 is ok). or just the Solar Map as it is, as we have Gamemodes at various Levels already, there's plenty of segmentation in that form as is.

I don't think that's a problem. The playerbase is big enough to sustain itself. Steam usage stats for last month place average players at 37,000. If the playerbase is split equally in 4 you still have 9250 people to play with, and realistically, those playing in the highest difficulty would be significantly smaller in number than those playing in the easiest difficulty, so the split would actually more reasonably resemble something like 50% // /30% // 15% // 5% from easiest to hardest.

You can only join squads of 4. Even just 2000 people scattered around all mission nodes would be enough.

Edited by Jarriaga

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5 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

I don't think that's a problem. The playerbase is big enough to sustain itself.

there's already segmentation issues, with how scattererd Players are as it is. there's already symptoms showing.

try reading my next Post where i fairly deeply talk about another way to segment the game that still allows for 'Difficulty levels' without shattering the Playerbase into 80 different pieces.
as that style actually splits Players across less Missions/places than Warframe currently does, yet it offers 10+ distinct Difficulty levels, and still has some separated unique content like how Warframe has Sorties/Arbitrations/Onslaught.

Edited by taiiat

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Here is a concept I made some time ago which is what you are suggesting i think(more or less)

 

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Good input from everyone so far I think the devs could do it right without splitting up the playerbase they are professionals after all and all feedback is still welcome! keep up the good ideas and feedback!

 

I would really love for the devs to provide more difficulty options with enough thought they might look into it keep being creative people!

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OK after looking at this again I finally think the lesser evil of both sides would be to have 1 of each of a level 80 - 100 Survival Mission for Corpus, Grineer and Infested. that u can access at all times like a regular survival mission.

This wouldnt split the playerbase and would be a good start for players that want a more challenging game experience. It would also be good for players as they would have a better place to try out their high-powered warframes.

It wouldnt be like elite sanctuary onslaught either as it would be a real match and not a test that restricts your abilities and gives you a time limit.

Edited by XJR15

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On 2019-10-04 at 9:44 PM, XJR15 said:

How about, after you clear planets u can have an difficulty option to go through them again but with higher level enemies? Example clear it once u unlock advanced difficulty bringing all enemies to level 50 - 60 when u select that difficulty, clear it again at that level u unlock expert difficulty bringing all enemies to level 80 - 100.

I may like it. Normal, hard, expert difficulty. It would be nice to start or join regular missions straight to the harder, level 50 enemies or hard difficulty, mostly for endless missions.

Make matchmaking work like this:
1. Start normal endless mission.
2. Normal matchmaking shuts off after some time.
2. Some players extracted early. Often left alone.
3. After some time, higher level enemies. What I want to see: Enable matchmaking at the harder difficulty group. Any players that unlocked hard difficulty can join by choosing harder difficulty. Maybe have some resource containers respawn to make it more fair to players that joined mid game. Separate matchmaking groups, 1 for each difficulty.

This will be great for players that cannot play a few hours straight, cannot pause in multiplayer squad, with some Warframe regions have constant reminder to take a break.

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