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(PS4)True_Reclaimer

DE - Exilus Mods Should Add Capacity! (Like Aura and Stance Mods)

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If DE really wants to increase build variety, stop punishing players for using Exilus mods by making them compete with vital mods for damage, survival, and rivens

Since weapons now can use Exilus slots, yet guns cannot use stances, it is common sense to make Exilus mods add additional capacity, in place of the missing stance mods

There's just way too many 16+ capacity mods now, hence why most builds are the same - lack of capacity limits variety

Allowing us to passively work towards a slight capacity increase AND get a quality of life bonus of our choosing - benefits ALL players and should be implemented ASAP!

Ideally this should extend to all Exilus mods, but limiting the capacity bonus to weapons or just guns would be better than no improvement at all

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

it is common sense to make Exilus mods add additional capacity

this is as far away from common sense as possible. this is called power creep iirc 
 

3 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

There's just way too many 16+ capacity mods now, hence why most builds are the same - lack of capacity limits variety

yeah...no. even if it is, it's one 1 factor out of the many 
 

4 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

Allowing us to passively work towards a slight capacity increase AND get a quality of life bonus of our choosing - benefits ALL players and should be implemented ASAP!

we don't really need benefits now do we? 
 

4 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

stop punishing players for using Exilus mods by making them compete with vital mods for damage, survival, and rivens

I love how people make up scenarios in their minds and roll with them as reality :facepalm:

guys, DE isn't building your weapons for you, you are. there's no competition here, this is a bonus, an extra

this shouldn't have even been implemented imo, and now we leave it to people to ask for the bloody cake factory and eat that too 

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4 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

I love how people make up scenarios in their minds and roll with them as reality :facepalm:

guys, DE isn't building your weapons for you, you are. there's no competition here, this is a bonus, an extra

this shouldn't have even been implemented imo, and now we leave it to people to ask for the bloody cake factory and eat that too 

Why do you want to limit build variety though?

How does what I use affect you at all?

"DE isnt building your weapon build for you" - if you dont like it dont use it

You must be a really sad toxic soul to go out of your way to ruin things for others, but gain no benefit from doing so 🤷‍♂️

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24 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

There's just way too many 16+ capacity mods now, hence why most builds are the same - lack of capacity limits variety

This has nothing to do with anything.
Builds are almost always the same, because people are looking for the most efficient build.
And this will be the same with the new slot. There won't be any build diversity. Does a weapon have bad reload time? Everyone will put a realod mod in the slot. Does the weapon have a teeny tiny mag but good reload? Everyone will put a "mag+" mod in the slot. Does the weapon suffer from bad ammo efficiency? Everyone will put an ammo mutation mod in the new slot.

The Slot won't add build diversity at all. It just adds power creep. It adds the only thing we DIDN'T need.

And yes, I'm basing my post on assumptions what mods would fit in the new slot. But come one, what other mods could really fit in there? And my point still stands. People will just go for options to maximize damage output. For example having a faster reload basically adds DPS. That's what people already are looking for, and they will just continue to do so.

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8 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

This has nothing to do with anything.
Builds are almost always the same, because people are looking for the most efficient build.
And this will be the same with the new slot. There won't be any build diversity. Does a weapon have bad reload time? Everyone will put a realod mod in the slot. Does the weapon have a teeny tiny mag but good reload? Everyone will put a "mag+" mod in the slot. Does the weapon suffer from bad ammo efficiency? Everyone will put an ammo mutation mod in the new slot.

The Slot won't add build diversity at all. It just adds power creep. It adds the only thing we DIDN'T need.

And yes, I'm basing my post on assumptions what mods would fit in the new slot. But come one, what other mods could really fit in there? And my point still stands. People will just go for options to maximize damage output. For example having a faster reload basically adds DPS. That's what people already are looking for, and they will just continue to do so.

Wait... Silent Battery is power creep?

WAT

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36 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

Exilus Mods Should Add Capacity

No... It would make building frames too easy.

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40 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

limiting the capacity bonus to weapons or just guns would be better than no improvement at all

 

3 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

No... It would make building frames too easy.

Welp someone didnt read

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Just now, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

Wait... Silent Battery is power creep?

WAT

I like how they're using the most unbenign mod to "Argue" the point, even though we're all WELL aware Fire-Rates and Reload Speed Mods are likely to be in the Exilus pile (We saw the Reload one at least on Stream).

Allow me to ask the question we all KNOW you're avoiding.

"Wait...Adding Fire-Rate to an Exilus Slot to free up an additional Element or Damage slot for my Kohm is Power Creep? WAT?"

To which the answer is: "Yes. Obviously."

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

I like how they're using the most unbenign mod to "Argue" the point, even though we're all WELL aware Fire-Rates and Reload Speed Mods are likely to be in the Exilus pile (We saw the Reload one at least on Stream).

I like how you're using the most EXTREME weapon to "argue" your counterpoint, even grasping at straws claiming an exilus mod will cover an actual fire rate mod! (we all know Kohm needs more than 15% fire rate)

Nice strawman 😂

Edited by (PS4)True_Reclaimer

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2 hours ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

it is common sense to make Exilus mods add additional capacity

No, no it is not.

Please google what common sense means.

2 hours ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

lack of capacity limits variety

hardly any build hits the capacity limit...

Please don't make up imaginary points so you have at least some sort of basis to support your claims.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

Wait... Silent Battery is power creep?

WAT

Thank you for missing my point. Well done. Good job. You life must be fun as heck.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, WhiteMarker said:

Thank you for missing my point. Well done. Good job. You life must be fun as heck.

He went back and "Ha Ha'd" each of your posts. What a guy. X'D
Gave you a "Like" on them, as I do agree with your opinion on the matter, and the facts you've provided.


(Still, a +1 point on your Forum Rep is counted no matter WHAT folks give you, so I guess in the end you still win in a way.)

EDIT: Heh! Thanks for the +1! xD XD

Edited by Tangent-Valley
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Negative recoil - Reload - Fire rate mods should be included in the list, i didn't see any of those during the showcase

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They either are free mod slots or they'll never get used. Or or or...they introduce a way to add further mod points into your weapon for further investment.

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8 hours ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

Wait... Silent Battery is power creep?

WAT

If you think about it, sure. 

Before the change you needed to sacrifice an aspect of your build to add a silencer mod. Meaning that compared to any maximized build, silenced builds would always be inferior in some respect. You were choosing between power and utility.

But after the change you’ll be able to run what was once a maximized build, now with the addition of silenced shots. Compared to before, any build using silencer mods will be stronger then they were previously. 

Power creep is simply a gradual increase in average power as new content gets released so I’d say yes, this situation would certainly fit the definition.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ExcaliburUmbra said:

If you think about it, sure. 

Before the change you needed to sacrifice an aspect of your build to add a silencer mod. Meaning that compared to any maximized build, silenced builds would always be inferior in some respect. You were choosing between power and utility.

But after the change you’ll be able to run what was once a maximized build, now with the addition of silenced shots. Compared to before, any build using silencer mods will be stronger then they were previously. 

Power creep is simply a gradual increase in average power as new content gets released so I’d say yes, this situation would certainly fit the definition.

Ultimately its Warframe never took a proper approach to power creep, it was more of variation creep. Since the majority of mods, especially recent released ones have next to no room for use. Unless they can provide a HUGE trade off bonus, most will likely never be considered over a +24%~30% Range/Duration/Strength mod. Its only when warframes/weapons either DESPERATELY need X mod to function at all or they can outright ignore said things. Seriously, name 5 mods that came in the last year that changed alot of the meta and do not include set bonus effects, Adaptation or Variant mods like Amalgam/Umbral/Sacrificial types.

As for examples on those that get to break building the norm?

  • Cyanex would be a good example of a Status Gun (meaning you do not need to waste 2 slots for crit mods), but you better slap quickdraw, preferably primed quickdraw or your going to not enjoy that chunky reload speed.
  • Acceletra kind of fits the opposite end, where it already shoots quite a few rockets but has a low clip size, so having a higher fire rate is kind of a negative for it. Though its kind of where i hope with the exilus weapon mod slots, maybe it could give Scavenger type mods a place to be used again, on top of Steady Hands, Minor Corrupted mods that normally get ignored(not the heavy Caliber/Magnum Force ones though, those can stick to being non-exilus), Maybe even a good deal of acolyte mods like bladed rounds could find a nice place with the slot.
  • Plus pretty much any frame that outright has next to or no need for X stat, You could literally use Gauss & Wisp as prime examples of these. Former has so much stuff that scales off of Duration and his kit is not really something to get much of a spark from Power Strength & Range, you could avoid those a good deal, while Wisp cares so little about Range outside of maybe having her shock wisps able to taze things far enough, which is not as much of an issue where Wisp`s motes usually lets her be so mobile and pseudo-tankie with such huge duration bases, that she can keep plenty of allies alive, plus her decoy & surge do not care too deeply about having large range either.

Well anyway, guess some people believe they can sacrifice survivability to give you room on these setups, kind of hard to live against 30+ mobs or so with no Damage reduction and a health pool base of 400 or less. Hence why i am glad D.E. is looking into compressing weapon mods and eventually i hope will also receive some attention, some warframe mods to boot in order to really open up the room for TRUE customization.

Though granted it might be nice if they make the Exilus type mods for weapons have their capacity cost lowered a good chunk to allow room for building. Since plenty of high-capacity mods exist for most weapon builds. Which it might be difficult to fit an exilus-like mod unless it has a capacity between 3-5, after having the polarity half-cost applied.

Edited by Avienas

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Have the usuals come in yet to explain why their opinion is more valid than yours when really their opinions against have no more standing than your opinions for?

Oh good they have. 

Business as usual then. 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

this is as far away from common sense as possible. this is called power creep iirc 
 

yeah...no. even if it is, it's one 1 factor out of the many 
 

we don't really need benefits now do we? 
 

I love how people make up scenarios in their minds and roll with them as reality :facepalm:

guys, DE isn't building your weapons for you, you are. there's no competition here, this is a bonus, an extra

this shouldn't have even been implemented imo, and now we leave it to people to ask for the bloody cake factory and eat that too 

I don´t think op´s suggestion is the way it should be done but .. really? Power creep? Out of curiosity, would warframe be more fun to play if we can barely face the same level 30 enemies we fought 10 years ago? It´s an exaggeration yes but every time someone brings up anything about mods slots, mod deversity or capacity increase it´s always this very same (questional) argument.

Why do some people hate progression and advancement so much?

You a the good thing about more mod slots is eventually we run out of pure dps options and could actually use a variance of utility and qol mods

Edited by Arcira

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6 hours ago, ExcaliburUmbra said:

If you think about it, sure. 

Before the change you needed to sacrifice an aspect of your build to add a silencer mod. Meaning that compared to any maximized build, silenced builds would always be inferior in some respect. You were choosing between power and utility.

But after the change you’ll be able to run what was once a maximized build, now with the addition of silenced shots. Compared to before, any build using silencer mods will be stronger then they were previously. 

Power creep is simply a gradual increase in average power as new content gets released so I’d say yes, this situation would certainly fit the definition.

Problem is it really isn't and is ultimately the failure of Warframe's entire modding system. Power creep reaches it's ultimate failure point once you've reached that line where you "have" to build a certain thing a certain way to be viable. As of right now, for the most part, there is more or less one way you're going to build any specific thing. The change here is needed so that there will be any variability at all between two players builds because if there is no variability, you might as well just remove mods from the game and just build every frame and weapon the way that currently they have to be modded anyway. 

They aren't moving fast hands or gunslinger to exilus, that would possibly be power creepy. Moving things that people were not using anyway, like silencer mods, isn't power creep. It just means people have an option to tweak a weapon where as before they had no choice. They were not ever going to sacrifice the damage to get that one mod, it wasn't going to happen, and that simply means the mod system is currently broken.

Now. They can do away with mods like serration entirely, refund peoples endo for it, and completely rebuild their entire scaling system from the ground up, using a system where every shot's damage would be X amount divided by the percentages of it's ips and elements... so that if you had 20% each ips, 20% corrosive, and 20% blast, each element would attribute 20% of one total number, the base damage of the weapon, which no mod can change at all. All you could do is change what percentage is what. This would prevent power creep. It also runs a significant chance of destroying their game once and for all. If no weapon, no matter what you do to it, is ever going to go beyond it's base value, then that opens up options for modding. Doing that would require DE to redesign their entire scaling system in ways that i do not believe they are competent or committed enough to do. You'd also have to remove all the multishot mods. 

Power creep is only an issue when it forces you to build things a certain way. Sadly that ship has sailed. They can either embrace that power is just going to creep but do so in a way that adds more variability to the game, or they can just let the game stagnate. I do however want to see a list of what the exilus mods will be.

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42 minutes ago, Arcira said:

Why do some people hate progression and advancement so much?

Because we’ve progressed way too much already. This game is basically just built on getting stronger and stronger, that’s why it’s so broken. We don’t need more of Tis 

43 minutes ago, Arcira said:

You a the good thing about more mod slots is eventually we run out of pure dps options and could actually use a variance of utility and qol mods

Again, people always act like their hands are tied and there’s lack of ‘variety’, when in fact nobody’s telling you how to build your items. If you wanna sacrifice CD for some better recoil then you’re free to do so, I know I do. The options are there, use them 

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Eh, again, if they were making primed reload speed mods or fire rate mods into exilus slot mods, that would be an issue, nothing that i "know" is going to become an exilus slot is something that's game changing. 

Anyone who is throwing a fit over DE making scary changes to the mod system are only going to look foolish after it drops and changes nothing.

DE should ignore all objections until it's actually in game, and deal with any problems that arise AFTER they become a problem. Spoiler, there will be no problems.

As it stands, for now, warframe has stagnated. It needs to mix things up a bit to get people interested again. This might be a good start. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GinKenshin said:

Because we’ve progressed way too much already. This game is basically just built on getting stronger and stronger, that’s why it’s so broken. We don’t need more of Tis

Interesting .. and what exactly is your alternative concept for sustaining a loot shooter? Ammo Drum Prime? No wait that´s power creep as well...

1 hour ago, GinKenshin said:

Again, people always act like their hands are tied and there’s lack of ‘variety’, when in fact nobody’s telling you how to build your items. If you wanna sacrifice CD for some better recoil then you’re free to do so, I know I do. The options are there, use them 

You could run power donation in a solo mission as well but I think doing so is at least questionable. Utility mods are not competative 99% of the time and almost indispensable in 1% of the time. Like the Aklex for example which has a ridiculous recoil probably in order to justify the existence of those kind of mods.

My point stands there is no variety with the limited amount of mod slots or to put it in another way as long as we have enought mandatory mods that consume all of the slot.

Edited by Arcira

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