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844448

Can someone tell me why you dislike archwing?

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On 2019-10-05 at 12:21 PM, 844448 said:

With Empyrean in progress, no doubt archwing will have a considerable part in the gameplay.

But apparently, archwing is considered bad, worse on Uranus submersible so can someone tell me why? I find archwing to be very fun and out of the mainstream gameplay, even the control is smooth enough for me with back roll for fast stop (move backwards + tap shift)

Also, I made a concept that combines atmospheric archgun, submersible archwing, canister throwing, railjack, squad link and armor stripping from ambulas for the third orb to add more spice into the fight because apparently all the fight in warframe is considered boring

(don't kill me pls)

Any objections or reasons why we shouldn't have more archwing in the future?

I like AW, but there is no content for it. Well, there is no content. 

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Lack of personalisation, control, and content. Its just the same content loop literally every time and it doesn't have enough to it to allow you to endure this repetition. There's also next to no skill to it.

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On 2019-10-06 at 2:16 AM, Titan256 said:

Well first off it's impossible to come to a dead stop, making it equally impossible to aim with high-skilled weapons like the Vectis and like. If the controls were better I'd find it much more tolerable.

The power of Itzal, sadly. Not only is it faster and best for grabbing stuff in space with skill 3, but skill 2 that makes you invisible deadstops you in air when used. I believe it does the same in open world, though I rarely ever snipe or shoot anything from Archwing in open world.
It is fancy though just speeding through the corridors in space and then use skill 2 to use the "break" :P

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Posted (edited)

some things are better left alone, in this case it was the controls which from they redid it to 6 dimensional, just proves they have no clue to what they are doing. then there is the underpowered weapons and uninteresting mission modes=  a crushing fail and humbling attempt at gaming.

Edited by ranks21

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On 2019-10-08 at 12:53 AM, beercritch said:

Once you get past this - get a pile of quality archwing mods (which are improving all the time) get yourself a different wing (itzal is my favourite) then everything changes for the better. Its not as much fun as running around in game, but its not that bad, eventually.

Itzal is only great in terms of quality of life, but it's not the most powerful. If you want pure damage, Odonata is in fact the master here due to skill 1 that acts like a Volt shield amplifying all gun damage :)

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8 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

some things are better left alone, in this case it was the controls which from they redid it to 6 dimensional, just proves they have no clue to what they are doing. then there is the underpowered weapons and uninteresting mission modes=  a crushing fail and humbling attempt at gaming.

Ouch, harsh.

As for weapons, if you really want to rip Archwing missions apart, then use Fluctus, Vandal or Larkspur. They are insane overpowered for anything. I haven't tried potato'ing Phaedra yet, but it might be viable too.

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6 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

some things are better left alone, in this case it was the controls which from they redid it to 6 dimensional, just proves they have no clue to what they are doing. then there is the underpowered weapons and uninteresting mission modes=  a crushing fail and humbling attempt at gaming.

The 6 dimensions isn't what gets me. It's the drifting into infinity they added around the same time. With all this super advanced technology we have you would think someone could invent a way to stop moving when you want to. 

Also being the pinball ball wasn't fun before they added drifting and still isn't fun now. It's actually worse somehow.

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Posted (edited)

I won't be surprised if those terrible missions on Phobos and Saturn, which are practically impossible with the base equipment that you get after the Archwing Quest, fueled peoples hatred for Archwing in general.

Also, it's a big reason why Empyrean fills me with trepidation. The fact it's based on a less than well received feature and feels like a tacked on side activity rather than an extension to the core gameplay. Unless Empyrean gives us reasons to do it (Rewards, fun gameplay), it's more than likely going to die, like Conclave.

21 minutes ago, Frennick said:

Itzal is only great in terms of quality of life, but it's not the most powerful. If you want pure damage, Odonata is in fact the master here due to skill 1 that acts like a Volt shield amplifying all gun damage 🙂

You kidding? Itzal with the Cold Snap mod is borderline overpowered in a lot of the missions I've done, especially mobile defense. I just hold my ground and spam Cosmic Crush, which not only deals damage, but it also freezes the enemies and draws in the pickups and energy that they drop. Who needs a pathetic little shield when you can spam black holes and CC enemies at the same time!

Edited by (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter

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7 minutes ago, (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

You kidding? Itzal with the Cold Snap mod is borderline overpowered in a lot of the missions I've done, especially mobile defense. I just hold my ground and spam Cosmic Crush, which not only deals damage, but it also freezes the enemies and draws in the pickups and energy that they drop. Who needs a pathetic little shield when you can spam black holes and CC enemies at the same time?

Yeah, that works too as long as you have enough energy drops, but you're also limited to range. Eventually it won't be enough vs. scalable enemies, as weapons just like on ground rule better. Empyrean looks to be far more open, so hitscan weapons will likely be safer. I wouldn't be surprised if certain enemies can't be frozen.

For instance if more "Jordas Golem" type missions show up later, Itzal easily goes underpowered, as weak points amplified by Odonata are wrecked by weapons.

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On 2019-10-05 at 9:21 AM, 844448 said:

With Empyrean in progress, no doubt archwing will have a considerable part in the gameplay.

But apparently, archwing is considered bad, worse on Uranus submersible so can someone tell me why? I find archwing to be very fun and out of the mainstream gameplay, even the control is smooth enough for me with back roll for fast stop (move backwards + tap shift)

Also, I made a concept that combines atmospheric archgun, submersible archwing, canister throwing, railjack, squad link and armor stripping from ambulas for the third orb to add more spice into the fight because apparently all the fight in warframe is considered boring

(don't kill me pls)

Any objections or reasons why we shouldn't have more archwing in the future?

Because it's awful, boring, and imbalanced. Rachet and Clank had better flying and shooting kineaesthics and mechanics and that game is gonna be twenty years old soon.

Cetus is boring. Simple as. It's the combat loop people actually do like spread out over meaningless terrain with objectives that aren't any different from closed procedural missions, except they take three times as long to do. Literal padding, with a literal padding space chair to go with it.

At least they aren't completely imbalanced like the operator is. The operator completely invalidates a warframe having ANY kind of balance or weakness to compensate for on top of doing 40K in a type of damage the enemy can't defend against, at least you can actually blow up an archwing occasionally to almost present a challenge.

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Archwing is abandoned content that feels disconnected with the warframes. The operator combat is similar in this nature but we are forced to use them in certain boss fights.

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I don't hate it's current iteration insomuch as I don't think about it at all. It doesn't offer much in the way of universal benefits once you got what you needed from it. Team missions aren't plentiful (or fun when they are) and solo missions tend to feel like a slog imo.

Sharkwing, otoh, just isn't fun. And feels both tacked on and needless.

If that planet's maps were all water only approaches where you left the Liset at high orbit and had to infiltrate the facility from outside (both water and air combat possible), and then extract the same way, that would be more interesting....I don't know if that interest would actually be sustainable or just novel though.

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I sorta like it, but controls are not the best. I have an idea instead of getting archwing mods from doing archwing. How about there are gear and weapons you get for your warframe from arcwing and weapons and mods from playing with your warframe. that way the systems feed into each other.  somehow K-drive systems could maybe be brought into this

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I'm a dude that likes Archwing, but here's what I think could be improved:

1) Archwing is super bumpy.  On foot, Warframes are super agile and graceful, latching onto walls and tumbling with ease.  None of that transitions to Archwing play.  Ideally, Archwing play would have some sort of reactive system for types of collisions.  A Warframe should just kick off of glancing collisions to recenter in corridors.  As is, it's entirely too easy to just bump around like a doofus, and that has more to do with humans interfacing the game through pieces of plastic than it relates to how these superfuture Warframes would actually handle.

2) Archwing has very few environments.  We mostly have a procedural Corpus ship, I think some wrecked Corpus ship, a Grineer asteroid field, and these few boss encounters like Jordas and the Fomorian raid.  We have some Neptune tiles with useless aquatic peripheral areas.  We never did see much Archwing integration with regular gameplay, like popping out an airlock to transfer ship to ship, et cetera.

3) Archwing crumples too easily to ubiquitous anti-air weapons on the Plains of Eidolon and Orb Vallis.  It just takes one hit from these homing rockets, enemies have an unlimited supply of them, and entirely too many units are equipped with them.  It's not even a huge deal to be knocked out of the sky - it's just annoying.  We can hop right back in with a fresh Archwing beacon, so why knock us out of them so easily and often?  It would be better for these things to just do damage.

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Archewings fly like a wet noodle with wings, and the maps have plenty of 90 degree turns.  Plus, there are practically no mods for archewing or weapons, because people never liked it and it never deserved more attention.  It's an incomplete and poorly implemented feature.

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A few things:

1) The lack of precise control. You almost always overshoot an interception node and it takes a couple seconds to make sure you're actually stopped in range of the node and won't drift out of range. (Would love to see some kind of automatic tether from the node to archwing).

2) It's stupidly difficult to see regular mod drops, way easier to see rare mods. So if you're looking for a specific mod you can't just have fun and kill things, you have to make sure you're close enough to see or vacuum the mod. This is one of the reasons Itzal is useful (the other is blink, DE's making that universal in Empyrean so that's good). Giving regular mods a different effect in space to make them more noticeable would make this less of an issue.

3) Not sure which one is the case but it seems like drops either have velocity resulting in them moving out of vacuum distance or meleeing an enemy doesn't kill them till you're out of item vacuum distance. Increasing vacuum distance for archwing would help this.

4) Similarly radar distance for spotting pickups on the minimap is tiny. It's basically useless as is. Increasing the default range would be great, but IMO the current minimap isn't suitable for archwing. Also, could we get different options in the settings for starting a mission with or without minimap on the whole screen, split by normal mission/open world/archwing?

5) If archwing is supposed to be about moving quickly around the map then why are most of the archwing mission types the exact same structure as a lot of other Warframe missions, move to a point and defend it. Combined with the lack of precision it's just a worse version of the existing gamemodes.

 

I really wish archwing was good, conceptually flying around space with a sword that can cut enemies in half is great but a ton of the current implement just gets in the way of it being enjoyable. Particularly when it comes down to how Warframes economy requires you to search out mod drops (which on foot you'd just collect with a vacuum), that just gets in the way too much in archwing.

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To be honest I like flying archwing in atmosphere, but really get annoyed in archwing mission.

The bumping, the slow stopping, the drifting, ahhhhhhHHHHH. I just don't understand why a small tank poking out from a wall could bump me to other side of the room and totally erase my momentum.  I am in need of speed when it comes to vehicle, not obstacles.  

The slow stopping also grinds my gears.

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For me it's the controls for the most part. And the archwing powers and weapons feeling lackluster. I'd wish someone from Project Aces (Ace Combat series) would show them how to build fun flight controls.

Edited by (PS4)de_sch0sch

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2 hours ago, SHArK-FiN said:

To be honest I like flying archwing in atmosphere, but really get annoyed in archwing mission.

The bumping, the slow stopping, the drifting, ahhhhhhHHHHH. I just don't understand why a small tank poking out from a wall could bump me to other side of the room and totally erase my momentum.  I am in need of speed when it comes to vehicle, not obstacles.  

The slow stopping also grinds my gears.

DE refused to work with precedent. Space invaders would have been a good one to pick.

The real problem with archwing, though, is that it as it is ...is largely unnnecessary. Not for the quality of the gameplay, but for being more of the same with just two more axes of movement. Archwing failed because it failed to be a something else to contrast with "pedestrian" gameplay. Granted, there's not much that you can do. Archwing is there, the cat's out of the bag, keeping it is a rock, removing it is a hard place. Archwing is only useful in the only two sandboxes we have, 4/5ths of the reason being the lack of fast travel (mitigated with itzal's blink) and 1/5th of the reason being amesha's healing ability during tridolons (which can be done without).

Archwing is in terms of game design a sprawl, a perfect, polished failure. The only way to dig it out and provide it with a fresh sense of dignity is to provide the option to wear archwings as syandanas on foot, mostly because fashionframers would love that.

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11 minutes ago, evilChair said:

Archwing is in terms of game design a sprawl, a perfect, polished failure. The only way to dig it out and provide it with a fresh sense of dignity is to provide the option to wear archwings as syandanas on foot, mostly because fashionframers would love that.

Well I wouldn't be surprised if they implement more mechanism under water.  Like adding new kind of gigantic infested which live under water, or enormous corpus creation that rules the ocean.

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44 minutes ago, SHArK-FiN said:

Well I wouldn't be surprised if they implement more mechanism under water.  Like adding new kind of gigantic infested which live under water, or enormous corpus creation that rules the ocean.

DE will first have to address the sharkwing slog. In a distant future where you have a photon-cannon, an uploaded mind (addicted to some kind of mind-blood passionately desired by the twin queens of a trillions-strong clone army) making slot-machine powerups that you pop into your weapons, where you have murderous polariods (both sapient and not: Helios, the synthesis scanner), von Neumann machines, intelligent buildings, intelligent buildings functioning as spaceships in a pocket/double-bottom dimension, a fungus which reanimates the dead and turns them into squidmen over time, mechaspiders straight from Wild Wild West, well, somehow, the problem of hydrodynamics remains unsolved.

Edited by evilChair

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the underwater levels are in serious need of remastering or even removing and replaced with a fade screen like in invasion missions where you ride the grineer pod

almost every time, a new-ish player gets lost underwater which is irritating for everyone when waiting to fight that boss

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3 hours ago, TheMuslimGamerGB said:

What! Say that again after watching this!

 

Lol! That is a legit raid xd

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