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Mardomus

Vauban Rework Abilities and questions.

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Testa:

The new "Tesla" ability seems to be more of a hinder, and I wish it was played more in survival or other areas to see how it plays out. Imagine playing survival, and the new Tesla attaches to a mob(s) and you have to move from point "A" to "C", and the Tesla remains on that mob(s). That could be a problem. I'm not sure if Tesla stays close to you within a certain range and moves with you if you're out of range. Also, how quick does it react to mobs in front or near you while moving. The rolling/attachment effect is awesome, but the delivery is lacking.

Minelayer:

I like the idea of "Sticky Mine" and it looks like it will work well with Bastille, Vortex, Nail AoE, and Tesla. Does range mods effect this?

The "Nail AoE" should have a slash status as well and what is the status % of the Puncture, or am I mistaken and there is none? 

The "Speed Boost Pad" is a worthless ability that's taking up a slot for a potential survival/support slot. That ability could have similar effects to Tesla by latching onto you or a friendly, like Clem or wisp, and providing buffs like Speed Boost (Rush %), Fire Rate, HP Regen, Energy, and/or Ammunition. This is such a bad ability. I don't know how you did wisp right, but got this wrong for Vauban.....

The "Damage" boost is nice and it would be cool if it stacked if you're playing with a team. Also, will this ability be seen on the map by other players so they know what it is and look like?

Orbital Strike:

I was against this ability, because most don't scale. But, it does and that's awesome. I wish it did leave a little 4 Second AoE Radiation or Heat patch after the explosion that deals 10-15% of the damage it dealt, but if not its still a nice ability.

Bastillex:

I really like every single thing about this ability. The armor strip is nice, but how fast does it take to strip it and will Natural Talent work with it? The idea of having Vortex gather with other Vortex into one will work well for higher level mobs, especially when they're grouped. You can drop another Bastille to strip armor and Orbital Strike. This looks like the most interesting ability of them all. Also, I'm not sure if I heard, but does the team buff inside Bastille scale to the armor being stripped (Higher Armor Mobs), and does duration increase the armor you receive once Bastille is gone? 

I don't like the animations for the 3rd and 4th ability. Will there be an option where we can choose what ability animations we want to use for each instead of completely taking out the old one? This could be a nice feature to add, too. Will Vauban get an energy increase? What will happen to his augments and how will they be beneficial to the new abilities, and will we get an augment for Minelayer? 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Mardomus said:

Imagine playing survival, and the new Tesla attaches to a mob(s) and you have to move from point "A" to "C", and the Tesla remains on that mob(s). That could be a problem.

Why would it be a PROBLEM if the tesla stayed at an enemy? And why not just kill that enemy? What about this is a problem? Please explain this to me.

I didn't read any more of your post, because you should just wait for the updates to drop. DE just showed how these new abilities worked. They basically said that they are still working on it. Just take Ember's new passive. They are still testing different ranges. It's safe to assume that it's to early for your questions.

Edited by WhiteMarker
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20 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Why would it be a PROBLEM if the tesla stayed at an enemy? And why not just kill that enemy? What about this is a problem? Please explain this to me.

I didn't read any more of your post, because you should just wait for the updates to drop. DE just showed how these new abilities worked. They basically said that they are still working on it. Just take Ember's new passive. They are still testing different ranges. It's safe to assume that it's to early for your questions.

Well I already wrote the problem, but you already wrote that you didn't read the rest, so me writing more explaining would be a waste, but thanks for the response, I guess...... 😂

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7 hours ago, Mardomus said:

Well I already wrote the problem, but you already wrote that you didn't read the rest, so me writing more explaining would be a waste, but thanks for the response, I guess...... 😂

I read the whole thing, still don't see why this is a problem, also if they enemy is CC, why would you just leave and go to another point instead of killing said enemy,

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Thanks OP. Lots of people don't understand that that criticism during a frame's development is important.

I agree with you on Tesla. If it CC an enemy or two around a corner or behind a door, then that less kill per second for the player.

I think the speed pad could be quite useful in capture, exterminate, or other mission of that sort, so I think it's reasonable to keep. Vauban has 3 more abilities than other frames (4 if you count Bastille/vortex as 2 abilities) so I think he can has more utility beside CC.

The sticky mine and the nail both seem quite underpowered in my opinion. I hope they get buffed a bit more.

Lastly, I want to ask, do you think Vauban need DR? His 4th seems very strong so I'm not sure if he needs more straight forward survivability.

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11 hours ago, Mardomus said:

Well I already wrote the problem, but you already wrote that you didn't read the rest, so me writing more explaining would be a waste, but thanks for the response, I guess...... 😂

You wrote what Tesla was, then said it was a problem, but didn't explain how it's a problem. A mook or two will be stunned and left behind while you move somewhere else? Who cares?

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10 hours ago, K1eranS3npai said:

Thanks OP. Lots of people don't understand that that criticism during a frame's development is important.

I agree with you on Tesla. If it CC an enemy or two around a corner or behind a door, then that less kill per second for the player.

I think the speed pad could be quite useful in capture, exterminate, or other mission of that sort, so I think it's reasonable to keep. Vauban has 3 more abilities than other frames (4 if you count Bastille/vortex as 2 abilities) so I think he can has more utility beside CC.

The sticky mine and the nail both seem quite underpowered in my opinion. I hope they get buffed a bit more.

Lastly, I want to ask, do you think Vauban need DR? His 4th seems very strong so I'm not sure if he needs more straight forward survivability.

About your last question, DR and Vauban. At least in my opinion, I don't think DR is necessary for Vauban. His crowd control and area denial abilities and insane. If used right, he would not be taking very many hits at all. 

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On 2019-10-06 at 1:27 AM, Mardomus said:

Testa:

The new "Tesla" ability seems to be more of a hinder, and I wish it was played more in survival or other areas to see how it plays out. Imagine playing survival, and the new Tesla attaches to a mob(s) and you have to move from point "A" to "C", and the Tesla remains on that mob(s). That could be a problem. I'm not sure if Tesla stays close to you within a certain range and moves with you if you're out of range. Also, how quick does it react to mobs in front or near you while moving. The rolling/attachment effect is awesome, but the delivery is lacking.

The tesla roller would either have a radius where they would leave the enemy to follow vauban, or a duration of which they would disappear, or both, and they would definitely have a number cap - which mean it won't last forever and you can't affect that much enemy that it's a problem.

If your concern is that it would make enemy "stuck" where you cast it while you already gone, therefore messed with the spawn rate, then sure the safe bet is to kill all that affected before u go if the roller not follow you. Your also don't need to worry much about the survival, life support pods already spawn on fixed period of time and it almost always enough (it's not affected by spawn rate as much as it used to in other word).

On 2019-10-06 at 1:27 AM, Mardomus said:

I don't like the animations for the 3rd and 4th ability. Will there be an option where we can choose what ability animations we want to use for each instead of completely taking out the old one? This could be a nice feature to add, too

uh huh ...... I can already tell you "Nope" on this one. They missed that chance 5 years ago

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Posted (edited)

Based on the latest devstream 131, the current rework still seams a little "meh".

Tesla's AI and Homing capabilities looked wonky. I know it was a dev build and is still a work in progress but we all know how notorious the AI can be.

The new minelayer, looks promising but that speed boost replacing my bounce for Trollban for knocking friends off certain tilesets or juggling them in the air is gone.

Orbitel strike seems slow and clunky and doesn't seem to scale well.

Bastille and vortex combination is what it should have been and that armor strip is a nice touch but what buff does it provide is still unknown.

The new kit seems decent but it doesn't solve the survivalbility problem that vauban has. 65 armor for non prime and 100 armor for prime still gets him 1 shotted. The new damage mine is okay but could we get a damage reduction mine? The new kit is still entirely based on CC and combination with the new 3 which doesn't look promising as off now.

I would like to input some of my thoughts on how vauban should be reworked while keeping the space engineer theme would be this.

 

1 - Remove tesla and make minelayer his new 1 skill with a few adjustments, add a "flashbang" mine which works like Excalibur's blind to replace the speed boost this still plays and works on the kit as it is still a CC ability and removes the wonkiness if tesla's AI making it a more reliable skill

2 - Have a Damage reduction skill, 65 armor and 100 armor without a damage reduction skill gets him killed easily even with adaptation mod. Give him something like Volts shield where he carries it around with a duration or energy drain or a meter like gauss and ember where the shield can break. The shield should only reduce damage on where vauban is facing making position important.

3 - Make Bastille his new 3 with the rework version.

4 - Make his 4 an Exalted Hek already. We already have Exalted melee and pistols already. Why doesn't he have this already? With a number of mods and images showing him holding the Hek, I'm surprised it hasn't been become his exalted weapon this will solve the damage output problem that vauban has for the longest time. It will be a more reliable source off damage then relying on that orbital strike. Shotguns have a falloff range and with an Exalted Hek Vauban still needs to combo his CC skills together to have the max potential of using this Exalted weapon. 

 

 

 

Edited by MadMattPrime
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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, MadMattPrime said:

1 - Remove tesla and make minelayer his new 1 skill with a few adjustments

But the Teslas are the only thing that's consistently functional, don't take those away from me, especially now that they roll around. I don't like the mines.

32 minutes ago, MadMattPrime said:

4 - Make his 4 an Exalted Hek already.

lol

Edited by (NSW)ToadBlue

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17 minutes ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

But the Teslas are the only thing that's consistently functional, don't take those away from me, especially now that they roll around. I don't like the mines.

lol

Would you rather have a functional skill that works flawlessly or a rolly boi that has to constantly struggle with its AI? Most people would choose a functional skill than a wonky skill that has to struggle its AI. Looking at the latest Dev stream you can clearly see that the skill is wonky and unreliable. We all know how notorious skill AI can be.

What's wrong with an Exalted Hek? It fits perfectly into vauban's kit since shotguns have falloff range, vauban still needs to make use of his skills and it won't be as brain-dead as mesa's 4 

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5 minutes ago, MadMattPrime said:

Would you rather have a functional skill that works flawlessly or a rolly boi that has to constantly struggle with its AI? Most people would choose a functional skill than a wonky skill that has to struggle its AI. Looking at the latest Dev stream you can clearly see that the skill is wonky and unreliable. We all know how notorious skill AI can be.

Minelayer is anything but functional and flawless. At least when I throw a roly-poly at a guy it will in all likelihood attach to his face and do the thing I want it to do, and it still looks like an improvement over Tesla Grenade which, while weak, was also more reliable than either rendition of Minelayer appears to be.

6 minutes ago, MadMattPrime said:

What's wrong with an Exalted Hek? It fits perfectly into vauban's kit since shotguns have falloff range, vauban still needs to make use of his skills and it won't be as brain-dead as mesa's 4 

It's boring and has nothing to do with his concept. You don't need an Exalted Hek, a regular Hek works just fine, a Vaykor Hek works even better.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

Minelayer is anything but functional and flawless. At least when I throw a roly-poly at a guy it will in all likelihood attach to his face and do the thing I want it to do, and it still looks like an improvement over Tesla Grenade which, while weak, was also more reliable than either rendition of Minelayer appears to be.

It's boring and has nothing to do with his concept. You don't need an Exalted Hek, a regular Hek works just fine, a Vaykor Hek works even better.

The new minelayer based on the latest dev stream unfunctional? Clumps enemies together as a form of CC unfunctional? A damage boosting "mine" unfunctional? A troll mine to trap team mates and enemies in a back and forth loop for the lols. It is way more functional than a rolly boi that has to struggle with its pathfinding. 

An exalted hek isn't mandatory but the new 3 simply seems slow and clunky and its an alternative solution for vauban's damage issue. Doesn't fit his kit? It fits as most his skills is still CC, clumping enemies with his new minelayer and his new Bastille/vortex. A shotgun works with those aspects in mind. Exalted weapons have something that the regular variants don't this thing called unlimited ammo. *Warm coat mod image intensifies*

Edited by MadMattPrime

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5 minutes ago, MadMattPrime said:

The new minelayer based on the latest dev stream unfunctional? Clumps enemies together as a form of CC unfunctional? A damage boosting "mine" unfunctional? A troll mine to trap team mates and enemies in a back and forth loop for the lols. It is way more functional than a rolly boi that has to struggle with its pathfinding. 

Sticky Ripline only affects, like, 2 guys. The damage boost is functional but also extremely boring and uninspired. Troll mine is worthless. Funny you don't even mention the nail mine. Rollyboi doesn't have to pathfind if I'm throwing a bunch of them directly at the enemy. I'll throw those around all day and never touch Minelayer.

6 minutes ago, MadMattPrime said:

An exalted hek isn't mandatory but the new 3 simply seems slow and clunky and its an alternative solution for vauban's damage issue. Doesn't fit his kit? It fits as most his skills is still CC, clumping enemies with his new minelayer and his new Bastille/vortex. A shotgun works with those aspects in mind.

The reason you say an Exalted Hek fits his kit is the exact same reason they gave him his new 3: cluster guys together, and blast them all at once, except it's even bigger than a shotgun. Nothing about Vauban says "needs a shotgun." And you already have shotguns. Use a regular Hek.

7 minutes ago, MadMattPrime said:

Exalted weapons have something that the regular variants don't this thing called unlimited ammo.

Running out of ammo with a shotgun? Unlikely, but if it does happen, use an ammo restore.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-10-07 at 12:45 PM, (NSW)ToadBlue said:

Sticky Ripline only affects, like, 2 guys. The damage boost is functional but also extremely boring and uninspired. Troll mine is worthless. Funny you don't even mention the nail mine. Rollyboi doesn't have to pathfind if I'm throwing a bunch of them directly at the enemy. I'll throw those around all day and never touch Minelayer.

The reason you say an Exalted Hek fits his kit is the exact same reason they gave him his new 3: cluster guys together, and blast them all at once, except it's even bigger than a shotgun. Nothing about Vauban says "needs a shotgun." And you already have shotguns. Use a regular Hek.

Running out of ammo with a shotgun? Unlikely, but if it does happen, use an ammo restore.

Sticky ripline could be affect by mods and such, nail mine could be wonderful or meh depending on how mods affect them. That troll mine like i suggested to be replaced with a mine that acts like excal's 2. At least the skill provides instant gratification unlike rollybois, where you can throw a million of them and if their pathfinding is bad it would be pointless if they don't hit enemies or take a long time to find their targets when you end up dead after casting them rollybois.

Sure his new 3 is a damage dealing skill and they say its scaling but lets be realistic its slow as hell based on the dev stream, sure in the simulacrum you can cluster enemies easily but in a real gameplay scenario enemies are all over the place and take in consideration the human reaction time and mistakes that can be made in "oh noes" moments.Sure you can subdue a few groups of enemies before being blown into pieces by a group of corrupted heavy gunners from god knows where. An instant damage skill is better than a delayed damage skill. The whole reason why vauban is being played the least is because of his lack of damage skills. An awesome looking skills doesn't mean its good if its delayed by that 0.1 second where you end up dead by enemies outside your line of sight or suddenly spawn infront of you.

 Like I said the exalted hek is just an idea based on the warm coat mod image and other pictures of vauban holding the hek unless you have something against exalted weapons. It fixes vauban's main problem too. As I would quote pablo "Weapons outscale skills in terms of damage". Have you seen any Excalibur and Mesa players complaining and asking for reworks?

Unless devs come up with a godlike pathfinding for the rollybois, its just gonna be an underwhelming skill. Based on the dev stream it doesn't look promising. 

Rather than having a skill that might be underwhelming it would be better to have something that is far more useful like Damage reduction?

Edited by MadMattPrime

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