Jump to content
laney_family

Feature Request - Forma Polarities

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

So I've considered this for a long time, and with the upcoming changes to weapon mods and additional configuration profiles I think its time to bring this up.  I would like to request a fundamental change in how Forma works by making the following changes.

  1. Once a slot has been Forma'd, that slots polarity becomes flexible allowing the player to change it without having to spend an additional Forma.
  2. The exception being Umbra Polarity that is unavailable unless the Umbra Forma is used, in which case the slot has an ornate marking on it to identify by.
  3. Since the Polarities are no longer fixed, each configuration could have different polarity's defined while still being restricted to only slots that have been Forma'd can be set.
  4. When players use a linked build from another player, if their slots are Forma'd then those slots will auto adjust to the necessary polarity

I suggest this based on the variety of builds for each frame.  Right now there are two solutions and both are limiting.  First players need to have multiple copies of each frame / weapon / companion forma'd specifically for a build.  Alternatively users have to keep using forma over and over when they want to switch polarities to different builds.

Edited by laney_family
clarification of point 3
  • Like 3
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

while it seems fair for player the sales of forma from the market will likely fall and that means DE would lose money. I know a lot of players who forma a slot and then reforma that slot to another polarity laters on so if sales of forma fall then I think DE wont add it as forma is on of the most common bought item in the shop. And if the person formad their weapons/frame with one polarity and then wants to change to another its their own fault and de can profit from that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lazarow said:

while it seems fair for player the sales of forma from the market will likely fall and that means DE would lose money. I know a lot of players who forma a slot and then reforma that slot to another polarity laters on so if sales of forma fall then I think DE wont add it as forma is on of the most common bought item in the shop. And if the person formad their weapons/frame with one polarity and then wants to change to another its their own fault and de can profit from that

That is fair, and something I have considered.  I can say as a player who has purchased the $200 plat package multiple times as well as Prime Access a few times, I have never once spent Plat on Forma.  I grind most using ESO or another mission rewarding relics, then use the forma from those relics.  I would assume many players play this way as well.

It is more about the ability to be flexible in the way our tools can be use than just changing our mind.  As they mentioned in the Dev Stream we will soon have the option to create up to 8 multiple configurations on Frames and Weapons.  The issue with this is many of the specific builds where you end up Forma'ing 5-10 times meas that your potential load-outs are very limited.  End results of this meaning that you don't need 8 configurations.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, laney_family said:

I would assume many players play this way as well.

I am the same, I think I might have bought one forma since I started playing. The problem with your suggestion is ‘incentive’ - people can buy and do buy forma. Is it likely that this change would lower forma sales though? If it would it might be hard to justify.

  • Also consider the slots and potatoes would no longer have to buy. 

 

Are you suggesting the slot would get changed on all configs each time? That seems like it could be frustrating as it would break every build on the item. If we could just change them independently per config that would solve all the problems (maybe DE could make an item that lets us). This could be what you meant anyway, I am not sure.

Edited by krc473

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, krc473 said:

the slot would get changed on all configs each time?

Yes that would have to happen to work out as a benefit with the additional Configurations.  I'll update the OP to reflect this, Thank you for pointing it out..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I am the same, I think I might have bought one forma since I started playing. The problem with your suggestion is ‘incentive’ - people can buy and do buy forma. Is it likely that this change would lower forma sales though? If it would it might be hard to justify.

I doubt it would. As the kind of whale who buys most of my Forma from the Market (seriously, I must have sunk over 2000 Plat into just Forma), I don't think the OP's suggestion would in any way affect my willingness to buy more Forma. If anything, it would probably get me to buy MORE because I wouldn't need to leave slots un-formaed for the purposes of flexibility. In my experience, the largest sink for Forma is Clan Dojos getting an item to a stable-state ideal build. I can count the amount of forma I've spent reversing my decisions on the fingers of one hand, and most of those were rerolling slots on Inaros to fit in Umbral Forma. I can't think of very many reasons to reroll mod slots a player has already decided on other than maybe some kind of major sweeping balance change, and even that kind of change would be a one-time thing. As such, I see no downside to letting people flip-flop their mod slot polarity once a slot has been "enhanced" at least once.

  • Satisfied 1
  • Applause 3
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are about to charge 20pl for visual loadouts when they could just remove the abc from the beginning and have a save option.They won't let the 35pl forma pack go to waste.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I burn through a lot of forma and will continue to do so, but what I really want is a bunch of Umbra Forma. I love to theory craft builds, and currently it would take me 18 Umbra forma and many more normal forma, to complete most of the builds I want to toy around with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea Laney and Support you on this! this would make the forma system so much better. haven't payed plat for Forma Ever. always Gotten the blueprints from Relics. and for the cost of 1 Forma on the Warframe Market is 20 plat per one when you can rush build 2 for the same Cost. i feel Farming Forma from Relics is way More Effective then Paying Plat for them.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP,

You know, reading your post got me thinking about this and I wonder if there might be a bit of compromise somewhere that doesn't impact the importance of Forma and yet still make assigning polarities a bit less punishing.  What about this scenario:  Once you've applied a forma to a slot (and then re-leveled the frame) any additional forma usage on that particular slot does not require a re-leveling of the frame?  You'll get some flexibility provided you've farmed/purchased Forma ahead of time to swap around polarities for other builds.  Additionally, your first Forma applies to the same slot in all three configs, but using additional forma usage on the same slot gives you the ability to apply it to just the current config slot, or all three.  You could then have some additional flexibility with your three config slots.  Forma might be more in demand, so maybe a slight adjustment to the loot table(s), but it does give the players some more options for their loadouts for the frames they're investing in.

 

.Ariano.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@.ariano. I think both are good ideas and I agree, this would be an interesting compromise.  I was considering something very similar where the first forma sets the slot to having a specific polarity, and a second makes any polarized slot flexible.  I would like to see it where the need for forma repeatedly being used on the same equipment is reduced while not having a major impact on the demand for forma.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The simplest way I can think of, is once a Polarity is applied, it does not get over-written by new forma.... Forma just ADDS matching polarities (and still provides the non-matching polarity malus unless you put forma in to match the new polarities you want to use in that slot.)

This still requires new forma for each polarity you want added to the gear, allows other builds to use different polarities, and doesn't significantly change the amount of forma used to the negative (as stories of people re-forma-ing over and over and over are few and far between, in my experience - though they have the actual stats, I'm sure.)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe they could introduce a new forma that has this option? And, of course, make it more expensive than the regular one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-10-05 at 9:57 PM, Steel_Rook said:

As the kind of whale who buys most of my Forma from the Market (seriously, I must have sunk over 2000 Plat into just Forma), I don't think the OP's suggestion would in any way affect my willingness to buy more Forma. If anything, it would probably get me to buy MORE because I wouldn't need to leave slots un-formaed for the purposes of flexibility. In my experience, the largest sink for Forma is Clan Dojos getting an item to a stable-state ideal build. I can count the amount of forma I've spent reversing my decisions on the fingers of one hand, and most of those were rerolling slots on Inaros to fit in Umbral Forma. I can't think of very many reasons to reroll mod slots a player has already decided on other than maybe some kind of major sweeping balance change, and even that kind of change would be a one-time thing. As such, I see no downside to letting people flip-flop their mod slot polarity once a slot has been "enhanced" at least once.

As the same kind of "whale" I completely agree with your statement.

I'd use even more forma, at least 5-6 on every single frame and probably 8 on most primary and secondary weapons.

I'd also like to add the suggestion to be able to use a forma and an umbral forma on the same slot, without them overriding.

If they'd seperate Umbral mods so far, that you could slot an umbra mod into a different polarity, without raising it's cost, I'd fully forma every single frame.

  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vethalon said:

I'd also like to add the suggestion to be able to use a forma and an umbral forma on the same slot, without them overriding.

Agreed. Treat Forma not as a "change" to a mod slot but as an upgrade to it. A regular Forma would give you all the regular polarities, an Umbral Forma would give you the Umbra polarities and applying both would let you choose from the full list. I'd go back and throw some more forma on old guns if that were to happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-10-07 at 5:05 AM, Vethalon said:

As the same kind of "whale" I completely agree with your statement.

I'd use even more forma, at least 5-6 on every single frame and probably 8 on most primary and secondary weapons.

I'd also like to add the suggestion to be able to use a forma and an umbral forma on the same slot, without them overriding.

If they'd seperate Umbral mods so far, that you could slot an umbra mod into a different polarity, without raising it's cost, I'd fully forma every single frame.

While I myself am not one of these "whales" in the sense of purchasing the forma.  I'll admit that as a completionest player type, where this implemented I would probably find myself needing to purchase forma as I would want to do all my prime frames if not the rest this way, potentially the weapons as well.  So while the discussion hits on points where this could negatively impact the economy, I think it could swing the other way depending on how much of the community are completionest as well.

On 2019-10-07 at 6:51 AM, Steel_Rook said:

Agreed. Treat Forma not as a "change" to a mod slot but as an upgrade to it. A regular Forma would give you all the regular polarities, an Umbral Forma would give you the Umbra polarities and applying both would let you choose from the full list. I'd go back and throw some more forma on old guns if that were to happen.

I agree, my point of Umbral being the exception would go off the idea that a slot would require a standard forma to unlock regular polarities, and additionally an Umbral forma would unlock Umbral polarity.  Not sure if the need for the initial forma is relevant but with the talk of the economy and not reducing the value of regular Forma I'd assume it needs to be.

If this were implemented this way I would love to see some type of golden ornate indicator on any slot with Umbral Polarity, like a highlighted border in the Umbral style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-10-08 at 1:59 PM, laney_family said:

I agree, my point of Umbral being the exception would go off the idea that a slot would require a standard forma to unlock regular polarities, and additionally an Umbral forma would unlock Umbral polarity.  Not sure if the need for the initial forma is relevant but with the talk of the economy and not reducing the value of regular Forma I'd assume it needs to be.

Eh, it makes sense. Your Archgun needs to have a Catalyst installed first, before you can install a Gravimag. I see no real issue with requiring that slot take a Forma before it can take an Umbral Forma or any other type that DE might come up with. It's very likely far simpler from a coding perspective, as well, since you only have a linear progression of states, rather than a splitting tree of states that way.

 

On 2019-10-08 at 1:59 PM, laney_family said:

If this were implemented this way I would love to see some type of golden ornate indicator on any slot with Umbral Polarity, like a highlighted border in the Umbral style.

That too. While I realise it's just cosmetic, giving a tangible visual representation to a weapon's forma progression would be very neat. Right now, when a gun is "done" is sort of up in the air. It's whenever you can fit whatever mods you had in mind, which tends to creep up on me personally. I get a weapon to Rank 30, go to put a forma on it and... "Wait, I can fit everything. Guess I'm done now?" Giving a clear, obvious distinction between Forma slots and regular slots would feel more satisfying to me, not to mention subtly encourage me to forma them all 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

not to mention subtly encourage me to forma them all 🙂

Another Completionist I see 😄

the more I think on the topic of it messing with the economy, the more I think if anything it would be a boost.  Warframe seems designed to encourage the collector in us, all the frames, weapons, mods, arch-wings, arch-wing weapons, pets, sentinels, etc etc.  If anything we will want to max out where we can, meaning the acquisition of more forma even when we dont have a specific build in mind.  This way when we find that perfect build, we know it will work since we formad all the slots and we have maxed it out leaving just the enjoyment of trying that build.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two questions for the OP, or I guess anyone who wanted to answer tbf:

1. Is there a particular reason not to have those slots the same 'universal' type as Aura Formas on regular slots? They seem to be functionally equivalent, just with less fuss about picking the polarity. And,

2. Do you think it would be more beneficial to have Forma stack, so the flexibility of a slot is proportional to the Forma investment? I kind of feel like throwing just one Forma on and getting any polarity to be a bit too easy, especially when an Aura Forma does a similar thing and requires a 4 Forma investment. I also feel that, given it's likely far more people would stack Forma, the extra Forma investment could make up for the lack of duplicates and re-Formaing. (Re-Forma-ing? Verb form does not compute...)

Side-note, but for the second question, it could be that stacking all polarities on a slot turns it into a universal polarity and gives the mod slot border a little flair. Not that I want to make @Steel_Rook spend the rest of their life Forma stacking all their gear to gold portrait status...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I think a better solution is to allow each slot to hold multiple polarities.  So I could forma a slot for V and D and then either mod could go in for a bonus.  It would require the same amount of forma as if you reformat the slot, but not punished for prior decision.  

But, it would require to relevel with all same rules.  The thing is, all of this has been suggested for years, it's not gonna happen.  

P.s. this is the main reason I stopped pvp.  It required a completely different polarity setup so id have to have duplicates of same weapon.  If I could have just forma a slot twice and apply either mod in same slot, maybe I'd have played pvp longer.

Edited by Educated_Beast
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Side-note, but for the second question, it could be that stacking all polarities on a slot turns it into a universal polarity and gives the mod slot border a little flair. Not that I want to make @Steel_Rook spend the rest of their life Forma stacking all their gear to gold portrait status...

Well, if that's how it works then I definitely wouldn't bother. I'm willing to forma every slot on at least the guns I like if it gave me a visual sense of completeness, but I'm not compulsive enough to do it AT ANY COST. This suggestion pops up a lot on the forums and I'm generally against it for one simple reason - it's almost never useful. Realistically speaking, we don't NEED multiple polarities on a single slot. It's fairly easy to pair down build diversity to where only a single mod slot needs to handle multiple polarities, and even then... Eh. Adding the ability to multi-polarise slots at a steep cost simply wouldn't be worth the cost of investment, as far as I'm concerned. Similarly, adding the ability to multi-polarise slots at no additional cost isn't really going to bring much in the way of power creep, but might be neat enough to justify the cost of mostly the same investment anyway.

To be perfectly honest, I strongly disagree with DE on the concept of Aura Forma. The item itself is fine, no disagreements there. The method of acquisition, however, is hugely disproportionate to the value of the item. I have an Aura Forma kicking about that I haven't really applied to anything because I use most of the same Auras on all of my Warframes anyway. Umbral Forma I get being rare, as it's a very powerful item. It allows me to use very powerful exclusive mods that I would very much like to use more of. Aura Forma is at best a mild convenience and certainly not worth the rarity.

I'm a strong believer in the concept of "worth" as a balance between "cost" and "value." Milti-polarised slots have fairly little value to me, but I would definitely pursue them if the cost were equally low. The cost of a single forma is low to me, largely because I buy mine in bulk off the Market with 75% off Platinum. I would have relatively few compunctions about throwing 8 forma on the Acceltra vs. the 5 I already put on it, for example. I like the weapon and I can get more forma. I would have relatively A LOT OF compunctions throwing 24 forma on it, however. Not only does that start to cost me a not-insignificant amount of money, it's far too much effort for what it's worth.

Long story short, I feel that allowing a single forma to give a slot all the basic polarities it could potentially take would have a relatively low impact on player power while offering quality of life and bit of extra incentive for completionists.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-10-05 at 12:49 PM, krc473 said:

I am the same, I think I might have bought one forma since I started playing. The problem with your suggestion is ‘incentive’ - people can buy and do buy forma. Is it likely that this change would lower forma sales though? If it would it might be hard to justify.

I buy forma because the build times and bp acquisition is too limited to keep up with my play, so that 3 pack of forma is a nice supplement. HOWEVER, I've never forma'd over a previously polarized slot in the way the OP suggests. The cost of trying to keep those build configurations together isn't worth it when I can just make small compromises to said builds instead. I don't believe the OP's suggestion would significantly impact forma sales and agree that DE should make this change.

  • Satisfied 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...