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(PS4)Hopper_Orouk

Heat procs shouldn't reduce armor

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Ibwould like to see heat price deal bonus damage based on how much armor an enemy has. 

 

Metal gets hit and cooks an enemy.

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if DE wanted to have heat armor strip thing, it should be done that way after the Ember Rework, basically it's the armor stripping (i wonder why greneer have the F this time all around not corpus with their shield)

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physics magnetism GIF

Heat vs metal example.

Also, that's an electromagnet... DE, you know what you have to do!

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Posted (edited)

How so?

Quote

As with all damage types effective against armorCorrosive b Corrosive damage's type modifier works in two ways: it ignores a percentage of the target's armor, and increases the damage dealt in the same way as a type modifier against hitpoints. Practically speaking, this means that Corrosive b Corrosive damage is only reduced by 25% of a target's whole Ferrite Armor and the base damage is increased by +75%

This is directly from the wiki and I would assume it is correct, however I have to admit I did not test it. Feel free to do a mathematical discussion, I am all for that.

Lets assume for a second we do not have a conversation about "I know best and I have insults to prove that." that the internet did come down to over the years:

Do you have a good argument why heat does require massive buffs(compleetly unnessesary in my opinion) and why it will not make corrosive as a damage type redundant or even just plain inferrior? You do not, same as I do not, because DE did not explain how that should work so far.

Do you have a good argument why heat damage should be massively buffed?

Do you have a good argument that corrosive, if you shift it's only purpose on status weapons to the element that is allready combined with it today for best for damage is not a bad idea?

Do you have a good argument why all guides suggest max corrosive or radiation damage against "high" level armor are good advice? I will awnser this as well, if you do team based high level you will have 4 cp and at least one damage buff in the team at what point it will not matter what you put on your weapon, if you are solo you will use a status weapon, where it will again not matter, as it did for the last 5 years.

Edited by Djego27

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Diego if you run 4 co I believe targets no longer receive extra damage from corrosive. The armor is gone with 4 cp. Corrosive does bonus damage to armor. No armor, no bonus. 

Tbh the real endgame teams should run 2 or 3 cp max if people are using corrosive damage. 

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17 minutes ago, Djego27 said:

and why it will not make corrosive as a damage type redundant or even just plain inferrior? You do not

I do, you're just choosing to ignore it because reasons.

Feel free to re-read my first post.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

physics magnetism GIF

Heat vs metal example.

Also, that's an electromagnet... DE, you know what you have to do!

By the time you're able to do that to any kind of armor, the living being wearing it has long been disintegrated.

Look, if fire procs need to be updated let them do something new and unique. Why not debuff enemy precision by, like 75%? Try shooting something while you're catching fire and see if you can even hold a gun in the first place.

The logic behind elemental damage in warframe is already moronic beyond any possible explanation with toxic damage affecting mechanical beings just to make an example, let's not over-complicate it.

Edited by Olphalarepth

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14 minutes ago, Olphalarepth said:

By the time you're able to do that to any kind of armor, the living being wearing it has long been disintegrated.

Look, is fire procs need to be updated let them do something new and unique. Why not debuff enemy precision by, like 75%? Try shooting something while you're catching fire and see if you can even hold a gun in the first place.

The logic behind elemental damage in warframe is already moronic beyond any possible explanation with toxic damage affecting mechanical beings just to make an example, let's not over-complicate it.

Let me introduce you to Titania.

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Posted (edited)

Corrosive will be irrelevant, except for some bosses that take extra dmg from it (if we get these bosses), why even take it if Heat will do dmg too.

Edited by MPonder
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17 minutes ago, Olphalarepth said:

By the time you're able to do that to any kind of armor, the living being wearing it has long been disintegrated.

Look, if fire procs need to be updated let them do something new and unique. Why not debuff enemy precision by, like 75%? Try shooting something while you're catching fire and see if you can even hold a gun in the first place.

The logic behind elemental damage in warframe is already moronic beyond any possible explanation with toxic damage affecting mechanical beings just to make an example, let's not over-complicate it.

It doesn't have to do that, you know? That's just an example of what heat can do to metal. But look at blacksmiths, they can make the best swords in the world, wrong heat treatment and it breaks like glass. And considering how hot the heat proc looks, it will probably do some bad/cancel the heat treating of the armor. It doesn't have to melt it, it just has to make it weak.

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14 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Diego if you run 4 co I believe targets no longer receive extra damage from corrosive. The armor is gone with 4 cp. Corrosive does bonus damage to armor. No armor, no bonus. 

Tbh the real endgame teams should run 2 or 3 cp max if people are using corrosive damage. 

They do not and you do not play against the armor if you have the choice(given that even 10% of that will scale to uncomfortable levels), you simply chose stuff that is good against the flesh damage type, same as I do for solo with status weapons. Viral will give you the same damage buff as corrosive would do, while also cutting the EHP you have to defeat into halve.

8 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I do, you're just choosing to ignore it because reasons.

Feel free to re-read my first post.

Assuming you are not a DE employee or a player that have more insight then what DE does publish, you do not.

If you are such a person, then I do not believe that we would have this conversation here, given that there is no good reason to expose yourself to consequences of breaking a NDA.

Your first post basically just states that my opinion is laughable because corrosive does work fine at levels where armor scaling is mitigated to a extend that it can be ignored by it's mechanics to modify armor on the target and damage bonuses what happens to be another level or grade of gear what all the people that did complain about armor scaling are on. I will exclude here all the Ember players, given that I know from my own observation that everybody but one person per hole year just does play her frame wrong. That still leaves us with a ton of people that have issues with armor scaling, even if it is not even a problem if you just use the tools that are in the game since 5 years. Point in case, DE reworking Ember and heat procs. :facepalm:

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don't buy the "Realistically...blah blah fire melts" since they changed Saryn's viral to corrosive, didn't they? I agree though, I think it's also just another example of them running out of ideas.

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DE: "Look at this stupid idea of fire melts armor, let's put in the game."

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20 minutes ago, Djego27 said:

Your first post basically just states that my opinion is laughable because corrosive does work fine at levels where armor scaling is mitigated to a extend that it can be ignored by it's mechanics to modify armor on the target and damage bonuses what happens to be another level or grade of gear what all the people that did complain about armor scaling are on.

That is potentially the most broken and least "basic" representation of my point you could make, bravo.

My point, basically, is that corrosive will continue to have a place and your statement that it will be massively devalued is nonsense.

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10 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

My point, basically, is that corrosive will continue to have a place and your statement that it will be massively devalued is nonsense.

^That, I mean it is not like Corrosive is suddenly going to become Magnetic damage.

Plus Heat and Corrosive can both exist on the same weapon which makes them work...say it with me people, TOGETHER.

I can't see the problem with this, aside from the fact that it is basically an admission from DE that "We messed up armor scaling completely, here's a bunch of countermeasures while we try to figure this out or so we don't have to figure out how to fix it".

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3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

^That, I mean it is not like Corrosive is suddenly going to become Magnetic damage.

Plus Heat and Corrosive can both exist on the same weapon which makes them work...say it with me people, TOGETHER.

I can't see the problem with this, aside from the fact that it is basically an admission from DE that "We messed up armor scaling completely, here's a bunch of countermeasures while we try to figure this out or so we don't have to figure out how to fix it".

IF both remove armor, but heat do DoT, why I would waste 2 slots on corrosive while also having fire, there are so many good mods that I could put in place actually that I don't usually use because of space, like Vile Acceleraton, Bladed Rounds, Faction Dmg mods, maybe I'll finally try hunter munitions, I'll probably be able to put a reload mod on the exilus slot that will come with the update

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Posted (edited)

Again how so?

Quote

Corrosive doesn't need to do damage on a proc, just using it as your damage type provides a huge increase in damage versus Ferrite armour enemies. 75% ignore and 75% extra due to the weakness. Same for Radiation against Alloy armour.

Even if fire helps with armour strip, it still doesn't have any numerical benefits against armour. Corrosive absolutely still has a place.

I stated that heat that does CC, damage and a damage dot therefore it will not need extra armor removal add to it, given that the proc that does that currently does no damage on itself, no CC and not dot: You assume that I suggested that corrosive does need damage on the proc, what is not my opinion, if that was not clear by my flaved english then I want to state here that it does not need a damage component, same as heat does not need a armor removal component.

So your point is it will continue to have a place where it's status effect does not matter and giving the status effect  to something that does CC and extra damage on top of that can be combined with other effects like viral will still keep it's value as it is?

Edited by Djego27

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17 minutes ago, MPonder said:

why I would waste 2 slots on corrosive

For 180% (or more) additional damage that ignores 75% of ferrite armour, and gets a 75% damage boost on top of that.

It's almost like I've already said this...

If, say, an enemy has 5,000 ferrite armour and you shoot them with a gun that does 400 heat damage and 400 corrosive damage (difficult to manage, realistically the corrosive damage will be significantly higher than a single element's damage).

You will actually deal 22.64 heat damage and 205.8 corrosive damage. Only when the armour is completely removed will the damage even out, till then corrosive is the superior damage option.

3 minutes ago, Djego27 said:

You assume that I

You assume I assumed something. I did not. I responded, and have only responded, to your claim that corrosive will be massively devalued. I do not know how to put this any simpler, and I'm currently under the impression that no matter how simply I put it, it still won't make any sense to you.

I'm not referring to anything else, I couldn't give two hoots about the arguments you're trying to push on me. They aren't relevant.

Corrosive will not be massively devalued if another form of armour strip exists, simple.

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15 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

keeping up with the kardashians

i have questions

 

1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

If, say, an enemy has 5,000 ferrite armour and you shoot them with a gun that does 400 heat damage and 400 corrosive damage (difficult to manage, realistically the corrosive damage will be significantly higher than a single element's damage).

You will actually deal 22.64 heat damage and 205.8 corrosive damage. Only when the armour is completely removed will the damage even out, till then corrosive is the superior damage option.

then wouldn't the fire proc (assuming its the proc itself that does the melting) even if it is not as effective as iirc a corrosive proc is 25% total armor gone when it procs so not only did the enemy just lost 25% armor off the bat for taking the corrosive proc they are now also losing armor (either over time or all at once) from the fire proc taking a now stackable DOT wouldn't this make the shred time of armor at least faster and the enemy cannot retaliate as they are panicking from the fire proc? all im seeing is a slight speed up with fire helping out corrosive eat armor and panic preventing retaliation

if people dont want more armor shred from a heat proc what would they want instead?  

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41 minutes ago, seprent said:

i have questions

 

then wouldn't the fire proc (assuming its the proc itself that does the melting) even if it is not as effective as iirc a corrosive proc is 25% total armor gone when it procs so not only did the enemy just lost 25% armor off the bat for taking the corrosive proc they are now also losing armor (either over time or all at once) from the fire proc taking a now stackable DOT wouldn't this make the shred time of armor at least faster and the enemy cannot retaliate as they are panicking from the fire proc? all im seeing is a slight speed up with fire helping out corrosive eat armor and panic preventing retaliation

if people dont want more armor shred from a heat proc what would they want instead?  

And? Is there a problem if it is? Also since we don't have numbers, we don't know how effective it would be. 

I don't mind some armor reduction from heat) or temporary armor bypass) , it spreading to others and increasing all damage received while under that proc, or do 5% of all damage as true damage cause the armor is now hot causing burns directly on enemies body, have them panic and flail. 

 

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Well this went quite hectic

 

All i wanted for fire was to be a damage multiplier

Viable for all factions

Currently the only elemental good for all factions is viral, it's neutral against every faction, and halves health which effectively means double damage

The "realistically bleh bleh-bleh" is irrational 

Because radiation doesn't make you hit your friends

While magnetic procs in the game doesn't attract other enemies

 

The whole reason behind the change is to make fire creatively effective against most factions

Again the prime best solution is to make enemies vulnerable to fire damage with every heat proc

It's like corrosive but works against everyone

A "universal corrosive" if you may

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1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

And? Is there a problem if it is? Also since we don't have numbers, we don't know how effective it would be. 

I don't mind some armor reduction from heat) or temporary armor bypass) , it spreading to others and increasing all damage received while under that proc, or do 5% of all damage as true damage cause the armor is now hot causing burns directly on enemies body, have them panic and flail. 

 

I was more thinking a question aloud don't have much a problem personally glad fire is going to become a stackable fire dot with armor stripping i'm just trying to think how adding that would devalue corrosive. You are correct however we don't have the numbers so the most i can do is speculate for all we know DE could make it the same but while fire could melt 25% of a person's current armor it may do it over time while corrosive would do it all at once. I was more thinking how it could speed up the melting down of armor on top of fire's new stackability and making the person panic so you can say take the ignis make it heat and corrosive and just melt the faces of everything while all they can do is flail and panic and not shoot you. As for what else it may do your idea sound interesting true damage could be useful even if its a portion of the total damage or perhaps it could spread to units that are not on fire if they get too close to someone who is or over time each Tick of fire damage could get more intense as it finds more fuel to burn so first tick can do 100 then 150,200,250 ect for the course of its duration.

 

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4 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Currently the only elemental good for all factions is viral, it's neutral against every faction, and halves health which effectively means double damage

Unless that faction is infested, sure. Against most of them it'll do 50% damage, and will thus even out at normal damage only after a proc.

It'll do worse if the enemy gets armoured by a swarm.

5 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

The "realistically bleh bleh-bleh" is irrational 

Because radiation doesn't make you hit your friends

While magnetic procs in the game doesn't attract other enemies

Just because a lot of things in a sci-fi game are irrational, doesn't mean that anything that actually has a rational basis is... irrational.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Currently the only elemental good for all factions is viral

I use Corrosive for every faction, because I find that removing an enemy's armor causes them to die faster than any element choice does. I've tried doing Viral instead and, weirdly, enemies don't go down as fast.

Edited by DrakeWurrum

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