Kuva Lich PvP Invasions

[Androndas]

On the latest Devstream we received more details on Kuva Liches. The part that really stuck out to me was converting a Kuva Lich to help you. Judging by how Steve said they "help you when you need it the most" I assume that only means when you go downed there is a chance your Lich comes to revive you like how the Nightwave boys did before they turned evil. I then turned my thoughts to ways to make the system more involved and cooler.

Kuva Lich PvP

Once you track down and convert your Kuva Lich you gain the ability to invade other players Stalker Style. To initiate an invasion you need to infuse your Lich with a custom amount of your own Kuva, which you lose if your Lich is defeated. If you are successful at killing either one or all players though, you gain a multiplier of the kuva that you infused your Lich with depending on how many of the players you defeat. To be able to invade players you need a converted Lich of course, but having a converted Lich would open you up to these invasions. This allows to players to "opt out" of the system by instead killing liches to farm their weapons. The maximum amount of Kuva you can infuse your Lich with is based on your mastery level. If your Lich dies before killing anyone, the players you invaded get the kuva in you infused your Lich with divided between them, thus a solo defender has a better reason to stay and fight instead of running.

 

As mentioned on the devstream your Lich will have abilities based on the frame you killed it with, allowing you to customize the playstyle of your Lich. Your Lich would not be as mobile as your Warframe of course, but you would have some amount of power regardless. This would give players a repeatable task to do, with risk. Should the kuva gain be better than siphon missions or kuva survival? That is up to the balance team, but pretend that the kuva gain for successful invasions is a perfect number. I want to encourage players to take a risk, but still leave Kuva Survivals as a lower-risk yet viable option for gaining kuva.

 

Many players desire an invasion mechanic, and will often look at the Acolytes. I believe that Kuva Liches are a more customizable and involved way to tackle this system. The Stalker Acolytes are cool, and COULD be expanded on, but I feel that Liches are the right way to go for an invasion mechanic.

[Xolot]

If they ever went forward with an Invasion mechanic, Stalker mode would be enough, but as we have already seen, people aren't really eager for an invasion mechanic on other playes.

Besides, I fail to see why Tenno would attack eachother with Kuva liches to obtain Kuva, when we are part of the same faction and the best way to obtain Kuva would be taking it away from Grineer

[Helch0rn]

how about no?

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Sounds like content, so yes pls

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

How about never

[belanya]

I cant wait to get raided by 200 ping player and get one shotted by a very skilled catchmoon/ignis/whateveraiminageneraldirectionweapon player!! 😍😍😍😍😍

[ExcaliburUmbra]

2 hours ago, Androndas said:

Many players desire an invasion mechanic, and will often look at the Acolytes.

I do think your idea is pretty neat but where did you get this impression? Every time the Stalker PvP mode comes up on the Forums or Reddit, it’s met with a flood of negative feedback. 

[JackHargreav]

No. Never.

[Corvid]

Short answer: No.

Long answer:

Spoiler

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo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Edited October 7, 2019 by Corvid

[(XBOX)Lmacncheese]

Sounds like something mogamu said

[Diavoros]

Don't put PvP in my PvE game, keep it contained in Conclave, thanks.

[ILOHARTA]

I played thousand hours PvP in the past, and it never mixed well with PvE: first, Conclave is bad and it cannot ever be fixed, second... this choice is going to backfire xD

[Proslackernifty]

So what I gather from this is that we have pretend PvP'ers here.  They don't want to engage in PvP with other PvP'ers, they want to assassinate people during their PvE missions.  That will drive people away from the game because it's ridiculously stupid.  So, no thanks OP. Play another game that has that garbage gameplay.

[Kontrollo]

Sure, why not.

Not exactly the PvP I'm looking for and neither is Stalker mode -- but the last time there was talk about the latter they said it would be opt-in. They could just tie this into that, as well.

[Aldain]

No, keep that Dark Souls esque "I'm gonna rain on your parade for laughs" BS out of Warframe.

Why so many people love systems that let you waltz in to somebody else's business and make them miserable should surprise me, but at this point it doesn't.

[JackHargreav]

55 minutes ago, (XB1)bioblaze10656 said:

Sounds like something mogamu said

Please tell me this isn't some idoitic youtubers idea. 

[Mephane]

I have no desire for any PvP element, invasion or otherwise, whatsoever.

[(XBOX)TheLastDax]

1 hour ago, Diavoros said:

Don't put PvP in my PvE game, keep it contained in Conclave, thanks.

Warframe hasn't been a PvE only game since like 2013 man cmon you know better than this.

[No1NParticular31]

PVP is only ever good when all players involved decide to do PVP. It is NEVER good when some players can jump on and force PVP on some player or players that did NOT want to PVP.

Good PVP might be an invasion type mission Corpus Vs Grineer and you get to choose a side and one side defends a target and the other tries to destroy it. All parties go in knowing in advance it is PVP and it is not a required node to progress the Star Chart.

Bad would be an invasion not marked as PVP, players go in expecting PVE then out of no where PVP'ers manage to invade and kill the original team before they even know they are in a PVP match. That is called griefing and should never be implemented in any game.

[Jorak_Falconstar]

no no no, a thousand times no

 

if you want to just gank someone playing go play WOW or any other pvp centric game where its accepted.  

If you want to invade my mission with your lich, I want have the option to reject the invasion and if you try 3 times and I reject you every time the invader is automatically and irrevocably permabanned.

[Yamazuki]

What is the point in PvP shoved into PvE? Most people aren't going to be interested PvPing, and anyone that actually wants to PvP will just always win other than when against someone else that cares for PvP. If you leave the PvP aspect optional, then it's dead on arrival... There's a reason why most games with this type of PvP rarely leave it as an option and just force it on everyone.

Warframe is a type of game that provides enough freedom when it comes to time dedication that anyone that wants to PvP can find another game to PvP on. It's what I do.

[o0Despair0o]

8 hours ago, Androndas said:

you gain the ability to invade other players Stalker Style.

And that right there is how you massacred the entire concept and all hope of your dream coming true.

Let's assume that Warframe has exactly 1 million players. Of those 1 million, maybe ~200 people actively play PvP in this game.

Maybe another 100 play it rarely. So that's about 300 people out of a million.

 

The entire rest hates PvP with a passion, or at the very least avoids it.

 

In other words, PvP isn't worth the time and ressources required as this is a PvE game with a community that's here for exactly that - PvE.

If you want to invade others and annoy them to death, I suggest you go buy Code Vein and try to solo the Cathedral of Salt Sacred Blood. Then tell me again how fun getting invaded is.

Granted, in CV you're invaded by annoying NPCs, but the concept is the same - someone shows up out of nowhere and ruins your day.

 

Or go play Destiny 2. A PvE game with PvP content. And guess what - the PvP sucks. Just like it does here.

Stop with his god damn PvP nonsense in Warframe and go play CoD or something.

 

Buuuuut just to point out some flaws here:

8 hours ago, Androndas said:

Kuva, which you lose if your Lich is defeated

In a game where weapons deal billions of damage per shot. Fantastic idea. Join game - get shot for 3 million damage - lose the 50K you invested. Amazing.

8 hours ago, Androndas said:

"opt out" of the system by instead killing liches to farm their weapons

And also being forced to skip out on a possible ally NPCs just so that some a**hat can't invade you.

8 hours ago, Androndas said:

The maximum amount of Kuva you can infuse your Lich with is based on your mastery level

Yet there's no real matchmaking. A MR6 Lich invading a squad of MR20+ players. Good luck with that.

8 hours ago, Androndas said:

f your Lich dies before killing anyone, the players you invaded get the kuva in you infused

See my first point. You'd lose 50k or more from getting oneshotted before even seeing the other player. Players would stop playinbg kuva missions as this would be more rewarding for them and lich players would ragequit and probably review bomb the game.

 

Just give up. This stuff is never going to happen. At least not without taking the whole game into its grave.

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

An option to allow other players to challenge your Kuva Lich companions: neat idea, could be like Warframe Pokemon in a way, especially if they later brought in Corpus and Infestation Kuva Liches for more variety.

Making it an invasion system to screw over other players: not so neat, literally any other system would be better. There's potential here but not this way, please.

[Llamatronian]

We can't even get PvE content on time, who exactly is going to develop new PvP stuff?

Also this systems sounds questionable at best.

[SilentMobius]

Same response to "Stalker mode", which is:

No, it's a terrible idea and a waste of effort, and at every oppertunity I'll campaign to not have it or to have it removed.

But, if It happened anyway (Due to terrible decisions) As long as the was a 100% guaranteed switch that prevented me from ever seeing it and that was flipped to "No" by default. I would be slightly less vocal about how much of a stupid, anti-player and toxic idea it was.

Edited October 7, 2019 by SilentMobius