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ThumpumGood

Are we reaching Relic overload?

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With as many relics as there are, the drop rate seems to be diminishing as a result of there being too many per loot pool. Is it time to creat more nodes on planets or even having a new planet altogether? I understand a new planet or new nodes on existing planets would mean having to re-open the Arbitration. Im good with that. Anything to lighten the loot pools from having 20 items. While I think 10 items is too many, I would be ok with that as a cap. I also realize that an easier solution would be to vault more at a time. Im personally not in favor of more vaulting. It takes long enough to wait on unvaultings as it is. I dont know what would be the best idea, but I feel like something should be looked at.

What say you all?

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Alternatively, loot tables could just be cleaned up. We have a lot of nodes as is, but there's a huge amount of overlap in their tables. Making nodes a little more focused would make getting specific relics a bit more practical.

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Some people felt this might happen pretty early on when we kept getting new relics for all the new prime stuff.  I do agree that we're getting to the point of relic drop table overload.

It's not just the number of different relics either but the actual number of relics that we have too,  I honestly have more relics than I know what to do with, except on axi due to the 'balance' of how relics drop.  

The number of relics I have in my inventory is only going to grow too seeing as in DE's eyes relics are 'end game rewards' in most cases and unless I specifically want to spend time farming primes to sell for plat via trade I generally only need one set of a prime item....I suppose I could sell the relics as well but still.  It's not like I even need an excessive amount of prime parts for ducats these days, even baro doesn't have that much 'new' inventory but that's partly due to how long I've been playing. 

Essentially while relics were an 'improvement' over the old void key system in some respects they're also worse in other respects and I think that DE may need to go back to the drawing board or give us a way to 'reroll' relics in a similar way to mods.

i have to say I think I'd prefer a store, like for many other parts of the game, where we could just buy the relics we wnt and instead of being rewarded with relics in missions we get a 'relic credit' with relics being priced according to rank with maybe a premium on newly released/unvaulted prime relics.  Higher missions reward higher amounts of credits and ideally scaling with duration too but I doubt this would happen. 

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8 minutes ago, Frenotx said:

Alternatively, loot tables could just be cleaned up. We have a lot of nodes as is, but there's a huge amount of overlap in their tables. Making nodes a little more focused would make getting specific relics a bit more practical.

The problem then would be that running the same missions over and over again would get incredibly boring, incredibly fast. At least with the current system, if you don't like running defense to get the relics you need, you have options to play something else like excavation or survival.

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I just wish that relics were not the reward for literally everything! It's basically impossible to run out of relics even when running void fissures you get relics as a reward like 99% of the time!

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Feel like every drop table is diluted way to much. 

Want a specific relic? Good luck. Especially since bounties are all unvaulted stuff and doesn't seem to rotate like it used to.

Even relic packs aren't that great so I'll probably stop wasting standing on them.

Endo or Sculptures from Arbitration? Good luck also since it was flooded with new arcanes and auras.

I have zero idea on how they would reasonably fix it though

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5 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

The problem then would be that running the same missions over and over again would get incredibly boring, incredibly fast. At least with the current system, if you don't like running defense to get the relics you need, you have options to play something else like excavation or survival.

You'd want to leave some overlap, sure, but there doesn't need to be as much overlap as there is now. With the drop table more focused, you (on average) wouldn't need to run as many missions to get what you're looking for, which would help counter the repetition some, too. More focused drop tables would also mean your farming nodes would vary more from part to part, depending on what you're looking for.

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Doing syndicate medallions somewhat ''daily'' and capping rep and purchasing relics has allowed me to never needing to farm relics. It's not even bad as it is. Void keys in the past were way worse.

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10 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Void keys in the past were way worse.

I would say that the current situation is about the same as it was back then.
Instead of having the loot table of one key being filled to the brim with different prime parts, now the drop tables of regular missions are filled to the brim with relics.
Back then we had to run the same key over and over again for the right piece. Now we have to run the same regular missions over and over again for the right relic.

DE didn't really fix the issues with the void back in the day. They just pushed it to the future, as we see now.

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The thing is, when a new prime access is added oldest available relics are removed from drop tables. Sure there are a whole lot of relics, but number of available relics was almost always the same. This only changes with unvaultings, which are like, always up nowadays and I believe that's the main issue.

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There are a few weapons that are on permanent availability in the relics, such as Braton Prime, Lex prime, Paris Prime, Fang Prime, Burston Prime, Orthos Prime and their parts are redistributed on every new relic released, making them quite a bloat. And yes, we get lots of relics as we play any mission, I have more relics than I will possibly ever open in stock, vaulted and available ones to which I wonder...would be ever possible to transmute relics?

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25 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

I would say that the current situation is about the same as it was back then.
Instead of having the loot table of one key being filled to the brim with different prime parts, now the drop tables of regular missions are filled to the brim with relics.
Back then we had to run the same key over and over again for the right piece. Now we have to run the same regular missions over and over again for the right relic.

DE didn't really fix the issues with the void back in the day. They just pushed it to the future, as we see now.

Rad relic sharing significantly reduces the number of relics you need to farm, and finding teams is really easy in recruiting chat. Of course somebody will always get unlucky and needs to do triple the expected number of runs to obtain the drops, but it is still extremely easy to farm all new prime parts within a day or two if all you have at the start is maxed stack of Void Traces. Void Interception missions for example have nothing but Neo and Axi relics on the reward table. It's impossible to get credits, endo or junk mods doing that mission. T3 interception missions only have 3 possible junk mods on A rotation, but both B and C are nothing but Axi relics. Syndicate rep will stack you with Mesos and Liths, along with occasional Neos and Axis.

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1 hour ago, ThumpumGood said:

Is it time to creat more nodes on planets or even having a new planet altogether? I understand a new planet or new nodes on existing planets would mean having to re-open the Arbitration. Im good with that. Anything to lighten the loot pools from having 20 items.

considering that over 80% of the nodes on the start chart do not drop anything worth more than 10k credit ... i don't think we need any new planet for the next 10 years

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3 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Void Interception missions for example have nothing but Neo and Axi relics on the reward table. It's impossible to get credits, endo or junk mods doing that mission. T3 interception missions only have 3 possible junk mods on A rotation, but both B and C are nothing but Axi relics.

You are not wrong, but this part right here is actually something DE wanted to remove when removing keys. Playing the same mission over and over again to get the stuff you want.
And no, playing against different factions on different nodes isn't making it another mission. It's still the same boring stuff.

Maybe DE will rework that stuff again soon. We have relics now for 3 years...

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The whole time I thought the relics where consistent (e.g. Axi L1 would be the only source of Loki systems) and there would always be the same overall amount of relics rotating with vaulting/ unvaulting. But apparently there are new relics each time they unvault stuff?!? Or do I get something wrong here? Sounds a bit like an unnecessary complicated self made problem.

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The vaulting system generally does work for the purpose of preventing too much drop table dilution on any given day, but the present problem is that DE started a new unvault (Valkyr/Saryn) shortly before the new Prime Access (Atlas). These two things really shouldn't overlap at all, but since they are we do have too many active relics floating around at once.

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53 minutes ago, Arcira said:

The whole time I thought the relics where consistent (e.g. Axi L1 would be the only source of Loki systems) and there would always be the same overall amount of relics rotating with vaulting/ unvaulting. But apparently there are new relics each time they unvault stuff?!? Or do I get something wrong here? Sounds a bit like an unnecessary complicated self made problem.

When prime items gets vaulted, all relics that contain those parts will get removed with them.  But the other rewards in those relics that belong to items that are still available must live somewhere, so a new replacement set of relics is created to house those parts.  Most often these new relics also host the parts of the new prime items that are introduced at the same time IIRC.

From time to time though an unvault is going to bring back a set of prime items that last lived exclusively in a particular relic set (a relic set containing only parts from these items and/or perma-unvaulted stuff).  In that case DE just recycles/unvaults those old relics as well.  E.g. with the Nyx/Rhino vaulting/unvaulting pair, the Lith B4 which got vaulted back in September 2018, got resurrected with their unvaulting back in July 2019.  So at least re-unvaults seem not to give rise to too many relic types.

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Nah, they just need to Vault some relics and voila, problem patched with a bandaid.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

I just wish that relics were not the reward for literally everything! It's basically impossible to run out of relics even when running void fissures you get relics as a reward like 99% of the time!

Yes, but you still never have the relic you ACTUALLY want. 😄

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13 minutes ago, GrandLompus said:

When prime items gets vaulted, all relics that contain those parts will get removed with them.  But the other rewards in those relics that belong to items that are still available must live somewhere, so a new replacement set of relics is created to house those parts.  Most often these new relics also host the parts of the new prime items that are introduced at the same time IIRC.

From time to time though an unvault is going to bring back a set of prime items that last lived exclusively in a particular relic set (a relic set containing only parts from these items and/or perma-unvaulted stuff).  In that case DE just recycles/unvaults those old relics as well.  E.g. with the Nyx/Rhino vaulting/unvaulting pair, the Lith B4 which got vaulted back in September 2018, got resurrected with their unvaulting back in July 2019.  So at least re-unvaults seem not to give rise to too many relic types.

Yea but I dont get the idea behind this system. As far as I know each prime access consist of a warframe and two items (weapon/sentinel). If a series of relics contains those exact same items there wouldn´t be any problems with vaulting/ unvaulting in the first place.

I never did the math but always though over 200 different relics seem to be far to much compared to the amount of actual prime stuff we have. But now it makes sense.

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On 2019-10-06 at 10:34 PM, WhiteMarker said:

You are not wrong, but this part right here is actually something DE wanted to remove when removing keys. Playing the same mission over and over again to get the stuff you want.
And no, playing against different factions on different nodes isn't making it another mission. It's still the same boring stuff.

Maybe DE will rework that stuff again soon. We have relics now for 3 years...

One thing I disliked about the void key changes was the fact that the Void Tower tileset is no longer anything special and just feels really generic and boring now. Imo it just made sense that prime stuff came from the void.

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On 2019-10-06 at 11:10 AM, ThumpumGood said:

What say you all?

I think it's purely as a result of them unvaulting more frames

For the most part this is what the fandom wanted. There are so many vaulted frames, with only 2 unvaultings a year and sometimes only 1 frame unvaulted at a time? The forums hated that. DE decided to step it up to back-to-back unvaultings (i.e. 4 unvaultings a year), 2 frames per unvaulting.

Overall a happy thing for the fandom, but with one side effect: all relic drop tables became slightly but substantially diluted

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40 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

One thing I disliked about the void key changes was the fact that the Void Tower tileset is no longer anything special and just feels really generic and boring now. Imo it just made sense that prime stuff came from the void.

Back in the day of void keys, I used to run survivals for an hour or two at a time, because I'll be damned if I'm gonna lose this last key by leaving without finding that damned Loki Prime part I needed. One of the reasons I was able to stay in them for as long as I did was because of how visually pleasing that tileset is. I much prefer the bright, sleek, and high-tech appearance of the void over the grungy Grineer tilesets and the sleek yet bland Corpus tileset.

I'd love for there to be a reason to go back to the void.

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On 2019-10-06 at 2:32 PM, FireSegment said:

considering that over 80% of the nodes on the start chart do not drop anything worth more than 10k credit ... i don't think we need any new planet for the next 10 years

The suggestion was that more nodes = more places relics can drop and thereby thinning out the number of relics per drop table

 

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