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devidedkong_pow

Does anyone else hate to forma weapons?

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1 hour ago, Fallen77 said:

Forma is one of the many things that keeps DE's light on. That's the kind of mechanic you should expect and accept from a FREE game.

i sincerely doubt that us having to go through 10 minutes of hydron/eso after each forma is making DE any money. 

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At higher MR's it is quite easy to level up by then, unlike Warframes where you start with the first ability all over again. Anyway, If the newly formad weapon is unusable, I just put it in a WF that has an exalted weapon and nothing else.

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There are differing ways the weapons and Frames work in this game from what I have seen.

Either it's a work in it progress weapon, which comes with no Polarities but you can put whatever you want into it, it has some Polarities and  you have the choice to tinker or use it as is and it works well, or it comes loaded with Polarities and you can buff the already buffed.

I usually use a weapon without Formaing it and then use it for a while to see how it feels to me at it's basic given to us by The game. Not a fan of powering up what I see is already powerful as I do not want to be a god walking, I want to be a person that finds going up against an enemy with on par equipment to see how good I am.

Guess that is the reason I get upset when I get Forma blueprints and stuff like that from the Relics as well as from the old days when it was in the reward drops. They just sit there in my inventory and I canno give them to anyone and I don't use em unless it was for Nightwave to get quik points.

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il y a 25 minutes, devidedkong_pow a dit :

Honestly I don't see your point. Like I said from the beginning I KNOW it's not that big a deal. I know that it has its place. But to say that it shows something about my appreciation of the game? that seems dramatic. I LOVE farming relics. For them, and unlocking them, but that's because I get to use my fully formed and built weapons. To put my builds to the test and to cause absolute mayhem and destruction. As for the grind of forma. What's the fun in sitting in the center of hydron hoping other people kill things as fast as possible while you sit there and soak xp? What's soo wrong wondering if there is a better way?

The problem is that you are going to hydron in the first place. When you're forming a weapon to make it part of your roster, I imagine you'd put a potato on it, so it should be largely strong enough to bring to anything bellow arb level. So go out and play the game, don't rush everything through hydron, no wonder you're having a bad time.

As I said, nearly everything in the game is an artificial time/credit/ressource sink, it's aiming at giving you stuff to do, no matter how senseless or tacked on it might be. As long as you're having a blast here, stay ! I'm not trying to push you away. But yes, if grinding for the sake of grinding turns you down, maybe consider it twice before investing too much time and/or money into the game (Idk where you're at in progression/Mr/vegetables/etc). That's all I'm saying on this specific point.

And as we now both said, it has its place and it's no big deal, so no need to break what few things are not already broken, cause you can be sure many aspects of the game would messed up in one way or another by such a change. That said, it's just my opinion of a hypothetic change that's most likely not gonna happen, so yeah, for what it matters...

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If you didn't have to relevel a weapon, then forma would have to be rare. There needs to be some kind of sacrifice or decision making when trying to make your weapon more powerful. If you could just simply get a weapon and dump 5 polarities on it on a whim, it would make the system pointless.

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il y a 26 minutes, Zeclem a dit :

i sincerely doubt that us having to go through 10 minutes of hydron/eso after each forma is making DE any money. 

The all process. Those that don't want to farm the forma buy it. Those that don't wan't to wait will pay to skip the crafting. Those that don't want to XP it will buy affinity boosters. Cut one part, that's some profit lost. (Arguably not a lot in that case, but still something).

If we keep asking for everything easier, there won't be any reason to play the game (easier like time investment, not challenge ofc)

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1 minute ago, Fallen77 said:

The all process. Those that don't want to farm the forma buy it. Those that don't wan't to wait will pay to skip the crafting. Those that don't want to XP it will buy affinity boosters. Cut one part, that's some profit lost. (Arguably not a lot in that case, but still something).

If we keep asking for everything easier, there won't be any reason to play the game (easier like time investment, not challenge ofc)

ok how do i buy affinity for my weapons to level them to the max? cus even with boosters it takes a little bit of time. affinity boosters would still be sold because focus farming. 

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7 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

ok how do i buy affinity for my weapons to level them to the max? cus even with boosters it takes a little bit of time. affinity boosters would still be sold because focus farming. 

You realize this isn't how it this works right...you can't dismiss somebodies point just because you don't like it.     Considering the data that indicates how many people have actually complete ONE focus school...I would say you are WRONG.

An affinity booster when leveling weapons/frames cuts time in half.     That is not subjective...it is objective.   In game with 400+ weapons and dozens of frames, the benefit to time savings is measured in 100's of hours.  I purposely bought an affinity booster for k-drives (a side discussion for sure) because of how it made me not want punch my head throw a wall.   That is tactile and people will notice it and do notice it (why people buy it). 

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Posted (edited)

w/o forma there is nothing else to do. Its also a way to try out the weapon and process we need to go thru for a weapon we like. I mean just do not forma all the weapons in the game just the only you know for sure you going to like it. there are 300+ weapons but only hardcore grinders care to forma everything.

After all you only bring one primary and secondary to missions and ofc there are different things like eidolons to do but overall the amount of forma the game "needs" is very little once you pick weapons you will always use.

Edited by (XB1)Dex Xean

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58 minutes ago, Chappie1975 said:

You realize this isn't how it this works right...you can't dismiss somebodies point just because you don't like it.     Considering the data that indicates how many people have actually complete ONE focus school...I would say you are WRONG.

i did not dismiss anybodies point, i refuted it. there is a major difference. and where is that data that you say? i'd like to see that. if you are gonna talk about steam achievements then i should tell you that steam achievements also say that most people dont play further than a couple of mr ranks. which isnt exactly reflective of the games situation at all. 

58 minutes ago, Chappie1975 said:

An affinity booster when leveling weapons/frames cuts time in half.     That is not subjective...it is objective.   In game with 400+ weapons and dozens of frames, the benefit to time savings is measured in 100's of hours.  I purposely bought an affinity booster for k-drives (a side discussion for sure) because of how it made me not want punch my head throw a wall.   That is tactile and people will notice it and do notice it (why people buy it). 

except it doesnt, not in practise. without affinity boosters i could level up my weapons in 15 waves overall in hydron. with affinity boosters i have to do 10. the reason for that is i have to keep going until extraction time to keep the exp i made so i stay for extra waves and waste time. so it is less efficient than twice the bonus for leveling up weapons.

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Il y a 15 heures, Zeclem a dit :

i did not dismiss anybodies point, i refuted it. there is a major difference. and where is that data that you say? i'd like to see that. if you are gonna talk about steam achievements then i should tell you that steam achievements also say that most people dont play further than a couple of mr ranks. which isnt exactly reflective of the games situation at all. 

except it doesnt, not in practise. without affinity boosters i could level up my weapons in 15 waves overall in hydron. with affinity boosters i have to do 10. the reason for that is i have to keep going until extraction time to keep the exp i made so i stay for extra waves and waste time. so it is less efficient than twice the bonus for leveling up weapons.

I say op's idea would reduce at least the affinity booster's sales, you completely ignore this and just say that there would still be reasons to buy those boosters... It would still reduce the sales wouldn't it ? You just walked around my point.

Not counting the fact that for some reason you refute the fact that aff boosters helps you level quicker... It doubles XP gain, what is there to refute ? If you can't manage your XP and overshoot it (what an issue), it's on you, there even are ways to level quickly and extract with more precision (SO for exemple).

Because you need to not overshoot your XP doesn't reduce the potential attractiveness of those boosters, since you have the same problem without booster anyway.

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What I dislike about forma is "losing" my build. Having to take a screen-cap is tedious, there should be kind of "restore build" option once the weapon is maxed again

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For all of you people complaining about leveling/forma'ing warframes may I present adaro

 

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I don't really hate it, but cursed by it, i can't waste my affinities due to time investment needed to forma weapons, so i can't bring maxed out gears 99% of time.

43 minutes ago, -CdG-Piggles- said:

For all of you people complaining about leveling/forma'ing warframes may I present adaro

 

It's not adaro you are presenting, you are presenting a friend that does volunteer for you.

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2 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

It's not adaro you are presenting, you are presenting a friend that does volunteer for you.

I'm presenting a friend putting enemies to sleep so you can kill them ... in adaro! Wild I know - regardless, this is still the best way to level frames, and seeing people complaining about leveling frames I thought I'd enlighten you all. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

I say op's idea would reduce at least the affinity booster's sales, you completely ignore this and just say that there would still be reasons to buy those boosters... It would still reduce the sales wouldn't it ? You just walked around my point.

where did i ignore this again? if so please show me. saying that "its not a huge deal like you are claiming to be" is not "your claim is bs". 

and we dont know if it would actually make a noticable impact on sales and even if it did, im pretty damn sure de can easily survive that. 

Quote

Not counting the fact that for some reason you refute the fact that aff boosters helps you level quicker... It doubles XP gain, what is there to refute ? If you can't manage your XP and overshoot it (what an issue), it's on you, there even are ways to level quickly and extract with more precision (SO for exemple).

Because you need to not overshoot your XP doesn't reduce the potential attractiveness of those boosters, since you have the same problem without booster anyway.

"cant manage your exp" is not a thing, because there is no such a thing called "exp management" in game modes where you cant quit whenever you wish, and i literally told you how much of a difference does it make when leveling your weapons the most efficient way possible so dont try to deflect here. oh and some people rather not go into missions to be carried for affinity. 

also again, stop putting words in my mouth. i never rejected the fact that affinity boosters help. what i said was its not as helpful in practise.

but hey, feel free to make more false claims about what i said and what i did not to defend this worthless system. 

Edited by Zeclem

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On 2019-10-07 at 9:09 AM, Lazarow said:

Im about to suggest sommething horrible so be ready: What if when formaing a weapon and the user is mastery 20 the weapon starts at level 20 and you need to level only the 10 remaining levels

Well, it kinda is. Base available mod slots is equal to your current MR (double with catalyst installed). If you are level 30, sure the weapon will go down to level 0 and you will need to level it up again, but you will have all 30 mod points available on the spot.

The pain in the butt part, is unless you have high MR, once you forma a weapon (or a frame) it is out of commission for high level content, until you level it up again.

I wanted to forma my Ignis Wrath for a while, but not welling to go through the damned process.

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1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

where did i ignore this again? if so please show me. saying that "its not a huge deal like you are claiming to be" is not "your claim is bs". 

and we dont know if it would actually make a noticable impact on sales and even if it did, im pretty damn sure de can easily survive that. 

This thread feels more like a frustration to the stagnation then being sick of the grind. Though it would be nice if higher mastery rank or every forma you add to a item, cut down how much affinity you needed to max said item (especially on repeated grinds), long-timers already toiled away on it so it should only make sense they should be able to `master` things faster. But i guess D.E. needs to keep something to push those booster sales, despite it might be better for them to work towards elements that reduce the tedious-ness and increase what kind of FUN players could actually have to keep them wanting to come back.

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

"cant manage your exp" is not a thing, because there is no such a thing called "exp management" in game modes where you cant quit whenever you wish, and i literally told you how much of a difference does it make when leveling your weapons the most efficient way possible so dont try to deflect here. oh and some people rather not go into missions to be carried for affinity. 

also again, stop putting words in my mouth. i never rejected the fact that affinity boosters help. what i said was its not as helpful in practice.

but hey, feel free to make more false claims about what i said and what i did not to defend this worthless system. 

Kind of a bit of TL;DR: All i i can tell seems like its turning into a crazy debate about complaining about affinity grinding when its pretty simple:

  • ESO for the `speedy experts`.
  • 15 wave rotations on Hydron for the Casuals.

I mean using Adaro to `leech` grind is kind of a fail already since your relying on a 2nd person to caddie you and your basically doing the same thing in those first 2 suggestions i said, though with some creative things like using Vazarin`s heal dash and affinity radius share bonus, its easy enough to casual thru Hydron up to wave 15 or even 20 as long as you made your weapon has corrosive and you put some survivability mods on your warframe, very least a Vitality mod since if your grinding a warframe you are not going to be using your abilities much to begin with. Heck the previous WEI was using Akkad aka the Infested defense map which may have slightly lower rates but with no armor on infested, its just a fun kill-spree, shame that D.E. has yet to buff other auras cause it would REALLY be nice if Infested Impedence got upgraded to 30% so it has a more sizable impact, just like how Corrosive projection does.

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9 minutes ago, Avienas said:

This thread feels more like a frustration to the stagnation then being sick of the grind. Though it would be nice if higher mastery rank or every forma you add to a item, cut down how much affinity you needed to max said item (especially on repeated grinds), long-timers already toiled away on it so it should only make sense they should be able to `master` things faster. But i guess D.E. needs to keep something to push those booster sales, despite it might be better for them to work towards elements that reduce the tedious-ness and increase what kind of FUN players could actually have to keep them wanting to come back.

Kind of a bit of TL;DR: All i i can tell seems like its turning into a crazy debate about complaining about affinity grinding when its pretty simple:

  • ESO for the `speedy experts`.
  • 15 wave rotations on Hydron for the Casuals.

I mean using Adaro to `leech` grind is kind of a fail already since your relying on a 2nd person to caddie you and your basically doing the same thing in those first 2 suggestions i said, though with some creative things like using Vazarin`s heal dash and affinity radius share bonus, its easy enough to casual thru Hydron up to wave 15 or even 20 as long as you made your weapon has corrosive and you put some survivability mods on your warframe, very least a Vitality mod since if your grinding a warframe you are not going to be using your abilities much to begin with. Heck the previous WEI was using Akkad aka the Infested defense map which may have slightly lower rates but with no armor on infested, its just a fun kill-spree, shame that D.E. has yet to buff other auras cause it would REALLY be nice if Infested Impedence got upgraded to 30% so it has a more sizable impact, just like how Corrosive projection does.

im not entirely sure if you actually meant to quote me. 

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On 2019-10-07 at 7:23 AM, (XB1)bioblaze10656 said:

Weapons no warframes yes cause now you cannot do sorties arbitrations on and on slaught

Do Kuva Survival. Tons of exp and get some kuva in the process. Just bring a strong weapon so you can defend yourself.

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forma weapons.. nope.. forma frames that doesn't really have killing abilities... that sucks on so many levels

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3 minutes ago, Sibernetika said:

forma weapons.. nope.. forma frames that doesn't really have killing abilities... that sucks on so many levels

Just grab an Ignis and kill stuff in Kuva Survival. It's so easy.

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Il y a 15 heures, Zeclem a dit :

where did i ignore this again? if so please show me. saying that "its not a huge deal like you are claiming to be" is not "your claim is bs". 

and we dont know if it would actually make a noticable impact on sales and even if it did, im pretty damn sure de can easily survive that. 

"cant manage your exp" is not a thing, because there is no such a thing called "exp management" in game modes where you cant quit whenever you wish, and i literally told you how much of a difference does it make when leveling your weapons the most efficient way possible so dont try to deflect here. oh and some people rather not go into missions to be carried for affinity. 

also again, stop putting words in my mouth. i never rejected the fact that affinity boosters help. what i said was its not as helpful in practise.

but hey, feel free to make more false claims about what i said and what i did not to defend this worthless system. 

You are waving it off as "no big deal" without considering the potential hundreds of hours a player will spend just formating stuff, and just stating alternativ uses that already exist beside it, that's what I'd qualify as "ignoring my point".

Also, companies don't work around the idea of "we got enough to survive, it's fine". They are pressured by the investors to keep up the profit as high as possible, if you cut revenues from one side, they'll either have to create revenue elsewhere, or cut on costs, which have grim implications.

 

And as I said, SO and ESO offer you a bunch ton of XP with very short rounds, from which you can extract at any moment.

And you could also considering... Actually playing the game. If you're doing nothing else than bashing your head against hydron's walls, no wonder you're overshooting XP. Take some unleveled gear with you on bounties, fissures, arb, invasions, nightwave, whatever you need to do atm, it'll XP slower than hydron, but you'll be progressing in everything else, and you'll get the true benefit of the booster, over time. Take one rank 0 gun on arb, if it's stuck at rank 28, finish it with a few capture fissures or something. XP management IS a thing, and if you really want to do it, you can while acquiring much more stuff than on hydron.

Ofc, if you're mr27 100% done with everything and just finishing the latest fodder, just go to SO/ESO, more precise than hydron.

But really, you do you, not judging, but don't go around saying that it's not possible to get the most out of affinity boosters because one of the XP loot caves gives too much per rotation... That's not in practice, that's your suboptimal practice. Not saying you should aim for minmaxing XP, it's a pretty unimportant concern imo, but it's there if you want it.

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27 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

And you could also considering... Actually playing the game. If you're doing nothing else than bashing your head against hydron's walls, no wonder you're overshooting XP. Take some unleveled gear with you on bounties, fissures, arb, invasions, nightwave, whatever you need to do atm, it'll XP slower than hydron, but you'll be progressing in everything else, and you'll get the true benefit of the booster, over time. Take one rank 0 gun on arb, if it's stuck at rank 28, finish it with a few capture fissures or something. XP management IS a thing, and if you really want to do it, you can while acquiring much more stuff than on hydron.

I've seen this argument so much over the years and it's always been a bad one.

1. Who the hell levels in Hydron these days?

2. At low MR your weapons are useless once you forma them until you relevel them. Trying to do those other missions is possible, but made much more inconvenient by it.

3. At high MR you have enough mod cap that the idea of releveling them has no significant impact on their usability, so why bother having to do it?

4. Affinity boosters are pretty pointless to anyone above MR 8 or so, tbh, because most of the places in the game don't give very good experience (where a low MR player needs it to) and anyone with a filled out star chart has access to the places that do.

5. Dragging out the leveling process even longer by doing suboptimal exp missions to relevel weapons leaves a bad taste in most players' mouths. It's like the "You're not allowed to criticize the country you live in to highlight where it could be improved. If you don't like it, move somewhere else" garbage argument. It's actually such a stupid argument that I can't believe I still have to explain it, but here you are making it.

6. Where the game was when this system was implemented is quite different from where the game is now. Namely, there's about 4-5x as much equipment to level (at least). Having to relevel them from scratch seems pretty damned arbitrary at this point. If anything, assuming we want to compromise on this at all, I think I'll refer to an earlier suggestion:

 

On 2019-10-07 at 7:09 AM, Lazarow said:

I'm about to suggest something horrible so be ready: What if when formaing a weapon and the user is mastery 20 the weapon starts at level 20 and you need to level only the 10 remaining levels

 

This seems best.

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