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Upcoming Exilus slots for weapons. what do you think?

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So in last devstream(131 last week) DE showed us the upcoming exilus slot for primary and secondaries and ill be honest im super pumped for that. 

there are quite some weapons who could use more reload speed/flight speed whatever, heck we might as well have some of the set mods fit in the exilus slot..

im quite borred, what do you guys think about this feature? i really dont mind the additional forma/s.

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In the end, there will be one best-in-slot mod for each weapon.

So despite having an additional mod slot, there will still be only one META-build.

 

It's a band aid fix to make less appealing mods find space in abuild.

The correct way for DE whould be to nerf madatory mods.

But DE rarely does any nerfing, since a very vocal part of the Warframe community is pretty serious about their E-pen!s.

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2 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

In the end, there will be one best-in-slot mod for each weapon.

So despite having an additional mod slot, there will still be only one META-build.

 

It's a band aid fix to make less appealing mods find space in abuild.

The correct way for DE whould be to nerf madatory mods.

But DE rarely does any nerfing, since a very vocal part of the Warframe community is pretty serious about their E-pen!s.

id rather have the weapon usability nerfed in a way that; you use some utility  or you go full damage but you have to deal with some inconvenient;

prisma grakata insane recoil -->fixed with stabilizer less dps but huge increase of usability

aklex long ass relaod speed --> fixed wiht quickdraw, again less dps but huge increase of usability (and also you get to shoot more ofter so you dont get swarmed)

meta exists and will always exists but you dont have to follow it. if a certain mod makes your weapon more pleasant to use you should simply use it and not care about anythign else.

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2 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

I don't have enough mod capacity points for another mod.

My hope is that the slot innately removes any capacity cost from the mod placed into it

There are 2, maybe 3 other ways they could go about it, but that's the best one I could think of.

 

16 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

In the end, there will be one best-in-slot mod for each weapon.

So despite having an additional mod slot, there will still be only one META-build.

 

It's a band aid fix to make less appealing mods find space in abuild.

The correct way for DE whould be to nerf madatory mods.

But DE rarely does any nerfing, since a very vocal part of the Warframe community is pretty serious about their E-pen!s.

Doing that would only shift the meta, meta builds is something you can never remove with how the modding system works.

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I just hope they keep it exclusive for utility/qol type of mods. In that case I'm very excited for it. We really don't need more damage-related possibilities. 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

In the end, there will be one best-in-slot mod for each weapon.

So despite having an additional mod slot, there will still be only one META-build.

I fully expect this.

Just now, SirTobe said:

I just hope they keep it exclusive for utility/qol type of mods. In that case I'm very excited for it. We really don't need more damage-related possibilities. 

I hope so, but I really don't think that they'll actually be able to keep to that.
In fact if what I'm thinking will be the mod list the list of mods that people will put in their weapon exilus slots will be:
-Fire Rate (Primed Shred for rifles)
-Reload
-Punch-through

After all those three mods are direct DPS increases on every weapon, and are realistically the only mods that people will put into the slot.

We see the exact same thing happen with exilus for frames:
People don't put in the "utility" mods like firewalker, agility drift, shock absorbers, rush, etc.  They put in the mods like Coaction Drift, Power Drift, Endurance Drift.

Unless DE excludes any mod that can help with DPS then I see this going the exact same way as warframe exilus.  No one will use "QOL" mods, they'll use the slot as an extra DPS booster.

If DE actually wanted a QOL slot on weapons it would be limited to:
-Holster Speed
-Recoil
-Accuracy
-ADS zoom
Etc.

But I have a feeling they won't limit the slot to those types of mods meaning that firerate, reload, and punch-through will be the only ones ever slotted there.

4 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

My hope is that the slot innately removes any capacity cost from the mod placed into it

There are 2, maybe 3 other ways they could go about it, but that's the best one I could think of.

really doubt that it would remove the cost.  It'll function exactly like normal exilus for warframes meaning that to use it you just have to put in a few more forma into your gun.

Edited by Tsukinoki
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What can they put there? Zoom, Reload, Ammo Capacity, Magazine Capacity, Silencer.

And we already had people calling for nerfs because Reload and Mag size is a soft DPS increase.

But some of my builds... they dont even have space left with 7 of the 8 slots with a polarity. That Exilus will remain unused on those weapons even though I would have loved to put more reserve ammo.

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Our e-penises ll reach new  heights.

Thats very good, we really need that.

 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

really doubt that it would remove the cost.  It'll function exactly like normal exilus for warframes meaning that to use it you just have to put in a few more forma into your gun.

They said that they're looking into it, because unlike warframes, weapons do not have a bonus slot that gives capacity, so at current they are capped at 60 capacity for the most part. 

With the main exception being melee, which this isn't for I think, since they don't have QoL mods.

 

They could also do it it in other ways, such as:

-The slot always has a universal polarity

-The slot gives capacity instead of taking it (which may cause issues for them)

-The slots has a universal polarity that limits the max cost of the mods. (example, any mod put into the slot can only cost up to 5 capacity)

 

Personally I don't like those ideas. (minus the gives capacity one, but it's near impossible that they'd do that)

Edited by Madway7
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vor 7 Minuten schrieb Kaotyke:

because Reload and Mag size is a soft DPS increase.

This is exacly my point. Reload decease is a dps buff.

But just think about how much dps  a 'Fast hands' grants compared to Serration?

Bring Serration down to a competetive level and people will actuall think about a slight dps loss if it increases usability.

But as long as mandatory mods, like serration, have absolutly no equal, there is no reason to even think about replacing them.

In the end, these mandatory mods are basically dead slots, since you'd never put anytihng else into them.

So, in a sense, the exilus slot isn't doing anything else but actually giving us back a slot, which has been stolen by mandatory mods.

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It's another pointless bandaid solution in the face of unending power creep that'll solve nothing and dig us all the deeper. 

they need to reign in their games balance already instead of just doing throwaway safety picks that only serve to make things look better than they are on a data sheet. it's also astounding in the face of an enormous power creep issue they've acknowledged to exist they're still throwing more power expansions at us, which is inevitably what this slot will amount to. 

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I see a lot of relatively new players unlocking too early the Exilus slot on a warframe, when they don't even have enough mod capacity to actually fill the whole page. That's a plat sink. The Exilus slot on the weapon is going to be the same : some people are going to unlock without building correctly the weapon in the first place. And the vets which have a filled weapon full of primed mods will barely have enough capacity to add one more, even polarized.

I really like the idea of having a utility mod on the weapon. Somehow, i'm a bit more worried about it being "one more" slot.

The exilus on the warframe, is, for me, the last slot I fill ; and it's really expensive to fill it : it cost a few additionnals forma (reducing the flexibility of the builds), and an exilus adapter ; which is often a lot of time, and a few pl. There is no doubt that'll be the exact same for the weapons; but sadly, my main weapons are already at 7/8 formas and still don't have much capacity left. But that's considering most of the equipped mods are Primed/Amalgams/Rivens, which are expensive as hell, and for sure, not everybody own the full collection (and certainly not everybody has all mods maxed.)

Overall, it's a great new addition. I support it.

Will I use it that much ? I hope so ; but If I can't use it; that's not going to change much for me.

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- Having extra slot for mod that counter negative stat on my riven without sacrificing a mod slot

- to finally have that silent build specially to compliment my invisible ivara without sacrificing a mod slot

- need some extra forma though to fit all of those mods while still maintaining the same build i have now, though it seems that forma is no longer a problem, for me at least. 

I see both potential and concern on it... but i dunno my real feeling till i use it. I do have some exilus spares lying around

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

It's another pointless bandaid solution in the face of unending power creep that'll solve nothing and dig us all the deeper. 

they need to reign in their games balance already instead of just doing throwaway safety picks that only serve to make things look better than they are on a data sheet. it's also astounding in the face of an enormous power creep issue they've acknowledged to exist they're still throwing more power expansions at us, which is inevitably what this slot will amount to. 

It's because they're not sure what they want they game to be so they remain in a neutral standpoint for as long as possible as long as it keeps making them money.

Why not rebalance the game? Because it's 1. Risky and 2. Takes a lot of time working on it on top of being risky

You seem to be taking a single perspective when it comes to balance.

 

They could just go full powercreep mode, then take a stand and say that's what the game is. But no matter what they do, they risk losing players.

 

 

In other words. The devteam is just divided in their visions for the game and taking the time to make massive balance changes just doesn't appeal to them risk vs reward wise.

Edited by Madway7
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Just now, Walkampf said:

So, in a sense, the exilus slot isn't doing anything else but actually giving us back a slot, which has been stolen by mandatory mods.

And if they don't limit it to purely QOL mods that don't offer a DPS increase....it's going to be taken up by another "mandatory" mod that is put in to just increase DPS.

I don't really see it "giving us back a mod slot", because it won't really allow us to fit in recoil reduction or holster speed, tactical reload, or any of the other "QOL"/"Utility" mods that exilus slots are supposedly for.

I really wish DE had actually kept the exilus mods to utility mods for frames instead of allowing mods that increase range/energy/strength or your auras effectiveness...

5 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

But just think about how much dps  a 'Fast hands' grants compared to Serration?

Bring Serration down to a competetive level and people will actuall think about a slight dps loss if it increases usability.

I actually agree with this to an extent.
While it is fun to mow through enemies and see hits of 20K-40K without really trying...it would be nice to actually have to consider "Would this mod that makes my weapon easier to use be better than one that just adds more damage?"

9 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

They said that they're looking into it, because unlike warframes, weapons do not have a bonus slot that gives capacity, so at current they are capped at 60 capacity for the most part. 

With the main exception being melee, which this isn't for I think, since they don't have QoL mods.

Fact is that if it just removes the cost and they don't properly limit the mods that can go into the slot (and from how they handle exilus on frames I am not confident in their ability to do so) that'll just make primed shred taken on pretty much every rifle in the game since so many would benefit in DPS from the fire rate and punch-through that it provides.
Its actually hard to think of a weapon that wouldn't benefit from it.

At that point it wouldn't even really be a choice of what mod to put there as good luck finding any that would come close to what it would offer.  It would be as immovable as serration currently is.

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Posted (edited)
vor 11 Minuten schrieb Tsukinoki:

And if they don't limit it to purely QOL mods that don't offer a DPS increase....it's going to be taken up by another "mandatory" mod that is put in to just increase DPS.

I completly agree.

But the problem is, what IS a QoL mod for weapons?

Basically ANYTHING increases the overall DPS, even handling, since it makes it easier to land all the bullets, just as flight speed and Zoom.

In the end, the only QoL Mod for weapons I can think of right now are noise reduction mods.

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Tsukinoki:

I really wish DE had actually kept the exilus mods to utility mods for frames instead of allowing mods that increase range/energy/strength or your auras effectiveness...

I wholeheartedly agree.

Edited by Walkampf
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Posted (edited)

It presents some interesting choices, like reload speed vs flightspeed on shotguns and projectile weapons.
And I like that it increases the amount of potential investment you can put into each weapon because it potentially comes with some added personalization.

Just like everyone else my main concern is that DE will now have to define what is considered QoL/utility and what isn't, and it's not as easy as it seems. 

The effectiveness of reload speed varies greatly, where on certain weapons like tigris or vectis the +% increase of reload speed translates directly to dps with a 1:1 ratio, but on weapons like, idk, most rifles, that ratio is a lot lower than 1:1.

That same principle can be applied to magazine capacity and firerate as well, but to varying degrees.

Where exactly that line ends up being drawn decides whether we'll be making interesting choices or it will be trivial powercreep.

Edited by Senguash

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

But the problem is, what IS a QoL mod for weapons?

Basically ANYTHING increases the overall DPS, even handling, since it makes it easier to land all the bullets, just as flight speed and Zoom.

In the end, the only QoL Mod for weapons I can think of right now are noise reduction mods.

While that could be true of most things I would prefer to DE err on the side of "What affects DPS the least"

For me that list looks something like:
-Maximum Ammo (not mag-size)
-Reload while holstered mods (tactical reload, etc)
-Zoom
-Holster speed
-Ammo mutations (With this I would feel better about leaving carrier unequipped with some weapons like the grakatas)
-Cautious Shot (still uselss...but hey it wouldn't be competing for a slot at least)
-Hush
-Beam range extenders
-Guided Ordnance
-Movement speed while aiming
And so on.

Sure some of those affect DPS to some extent more or less than others, but I think they would actually cause people to pause for a little bit and go "Should I go with holster speed?  Or better accuracy while ADSing?  Maybe moving faster while ADSing...." which is a bit more thought than what currently goes into the modding process, and with mods similar to those it would be harder for someone to argue "This is the best mod for the slot!" like they can do with damage.  After all it would depend on the weapon, how you use it and some other factors.

Edited by Tsukinoki

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Depends on which mods will become Exilus.

Projectile Speed? Beam Range? Suppressor? Reload Speed? Ammo Capacity?

Will there be new ones?

So, it could be just a buff with a "best in slot", or it could actually add some flavour.

I like Suppressor Mods on my Weapons because i like the Stealth-Gameplay a lot. I just rarely use it because there are so many mandatory mods on Sniper Rifles.
6 out of 8 Slots on my Rubico are mandatory. Serration, Split Chamber, Vigilante Armaments, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Riven...so i can either add a single Element and Hush, or a dual Element.

There is just no place for Mods that increase Ammo, improve Reload or things like that.

I would also love to have Peculiar Mods there. One that adds the "Disintegrate" that Opticor and Ferrox have for example.
Or other fun things to change the death animation a bit.

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5 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Fact is that if it just removes the cost and they don't properly limit the mods that can go into the slot (and from how they handle exilus on frames I am not confident in their ability to do so) that'll just make primed shred taken on pretty much every rifle in the game since so many would benefit in DPS from the fire rate and punch-through that it provides.
Its actually hard to think of a weapon that wouldn't benefit from it.

At that point it wouldn't even really be a choice of what mod to put there as good luck finding any that would come close to what it would offer.  It would be as immovable as serration currently is.

I'm starting to see your point. I was only really thinking of the weapons that could really use these towards improving their performance, such as weapons with near 3s reload time. But I neglected to consider the effect on weapons that didn't have such issues.

 

Tho I'm not sure why you're mentioning Primed Shred. As far as I can tell it currently doesn't count as an exilus in the devstream build and so, does not warrant a place in the discussion unless it's being argued for being added there.

 

I'm currently using what they've shown on stream as a template for what they intend to have there, with the only missing mods possibly being Narrow Barrel and maybe Fatal Accelertaion

As you can see Seeking Force and Seeking Fury (despite being half about reload speed) are not present 

exil_slot_weap.png

 

So based on this I don't see a fire rate or punch through mod (not even , the only dps related ones are the mag cap and reload.

 

Please let me know if there was a point on stream where it was shown that a punch through mod or fire rate mod was present in that slot/mod selection

 

If you're actually just linking these possibilities together in order to say "dps mods in this slot is bad", then disregard what I said about punch through and fire rate.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

-Beam range extenders

Would this count as the same as flight speed for shotguns?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Walkampf said:

So, in a sense, the exilus slot isn't doing anything else but actually giving us back a slot, which has been stolen by mandatory mods.

This is how I feel. It's just giving us back the stolen slots from mandatory mods.

It would make more sense to leave out the exilus slot and give us a way to incorporate the mandatory mods into the inherent weapon stats somehow. Like make a cheaper Serration built into the weapon that we level per weapon. 

But...I also know players will just use that extra slot for the most damage possible and will still never use it for something like a "silent shotgun" mod. So I guess it still comes back to the same issue of power creep like it was for warframes with the previously mentioned case of prioritizing Coaction Drift instead of Firewalker. 😞 

Edited by (PS4)Ozymandias-13-

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