I want this kind of raid

[mraz641]

just stay with me here, lots of rooms, some new some old. you start by extermenating grineer and sabotaging cloning machines at the same time. when you are done with that first boss appears where the fight is similiar as final boss fight in emissary series. you beat him with the team you go on the next level without loading screens. just cross the door and new mission pops out. new mission is something like survive for the five minnutes and kill 100 grineer. you complete it, a lone tenno operative hacks the door to the lab where you face tube men and its boss, after the fight you get the key card to the final level, but before you can enter the pasword to the door you got ambushed by 3 ambulas and some corpus boss who also invaded the grineer stronghold. you dispatch of them, anter the level with the final boss and there you fight with new enemy, sentient fused grineer made to combat tenno.he has 4 disruptors thatblocks tenno abilities. you destory them, destroy boss then see that there is a cloning device making them, so you have to hack couple of consoles while fighting more and more bosses , when hack is complete door opens and there is spy like room, your abilities are disabled you jump like crazy running in there and just destroy the console while all hell breaks loose, noxes and other*stronger* grineer troops start spawning and you run away to extraction. the end

i just made this up confirming that there is a way for de(which i love very mutch) to create endgame content. and the rewards should be decoration for the orbiter, new armor sets,primary weapon that you dont have to reload cus its creating ammo in itself or some crazy sh*** like that.

[LascarCapable]

Thread title edited to match better posting quality standards.

[krc473]

14 minutes ago, mraz641 said:

i just made this up confirming that there is a way for de(which i love very mutch) to create endgame content.

You seem to have mistaken 'Overly Complicated' for 'Endgame'. Based on just the information you have provided, I cannot see this being particularly challenging. I don't think we have an actual difficult boss so far. I can only assume your new 'Sentient infused Grineer' boss would be of a similar difficulty level.

 

This just seems like one long overly complicated mission. I do think it would be fairly easy to complete. I am not sure if I could call this 'Endgame'.

• No enemy levels have been provided, so I am assuming they would peak at roughly level 100 (third Sortie level).

[mraz641]

2 minutes ago, krc473 said:

You seem to have mistaken 'Overly Complicated' for 'Endgame'. Based on just the information you have provided, I cannot see this being particularly challenging. I don't think we have an actual difficult boss so far. I can only assume your new 'Sentient infused Grineer' boss would be of a similar difficulty level.

 

This just seems like one long overly complicated mission. I do think it would be fairly easy to complete. I am not sure if I could call this 'Endgame'.

• No enemy levels have been provided, so I am assuming they would peak at roughly level 100 (third Sortie level).

actually i was having in mind an interactive mission with players, that isnt just do this and its done. and there are several boss fights which all drop unique staff. nobody who played wow and started fighting lich king said its too complicated because you have to do various things to get there. i understand how it might feel complicated for you, but for me lots of action packed with high level bosses and actual tactics used will elevate this game to new heights.

[Aesthier]

12 minutes ago, mraz641 said:

actually i was having in mind an interactive mission with players, that isnt just do this and its done. and there are several boss fights which all drop unique staff. nobody who played wow and started fighting lich king said its too complicated because you have to do various things to get there. i understand how it might feel complicated for you, but for me lots of action packed with high level bosses and actual tactics used will elevate this game to new heights.

There was a reason I quit WoW and came to Warframe.

I was sick of raids.

 

If Warframe implements them again then I will quit like last time they implemented them.

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Aesthier

[JackHargreav]

5 minutes ago, Aesthier said:

There was a reason I quit WoW and came to Warframe.

I was sick of raids.

 

If Warframe implements them again then I will quit like last time they implemented them.

 

Why?

I didn't like them either but they only had the arcanes going for them.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

20 minutes ago, Aesthier said:

If Warframe implements them again then I will quit like last time they implemented them.

It's not like you'd be forced to play them.

[krc473]

38 minutes ago, mraz641 said:

i understand how it might feel complicated for you, but for me lots of action packed with high level bosses and actual tactics used will elevate this game to new heights.

You never specified the level. So I don't think anyone can comment on 'high level'. You have simply not provided an in-depth explanation of what you want. Your explanation so far makes it sound complicated and not much else. I would say you need to add the levels and faction(s) of enemies, as well as some potential modifiers. An idea of what the rewards could be would also be useful. The problem with your explanation: I am basically imagining that this would be essentially Sorties but combined into one mission, perhaps with additional stages. This doesn't strike me as difficult or rewarding. Based on my understanding of what you are saying, I would not bother with this mode as it sounds like a waste of time.

• Note: I was not really a fan of WoW.

 

This doesn't sound remotely "action packed" to me. But that could be down to the explanation given. 

[Fallen77]

Il y a 1 heure, mraz641 a dit :

just stay with me here, lots of rooms, some new some old. you start by extermenating grineer and sabotaging cloning machines at the same time. when you are done with that first boss appears where the fight is similiar as final boss fight in emissary series. you beat him with the team you go on the next level without loading screens. just cross the door and new mission pops out. new mission is something like survive for the five minnutes and kill 100 grineer. you complete it, a lone tenno operative hacks the door to the lab where you face tube men and its boss, after the fight you get the key card to the final level, but before you can enter the pasword to the door you got ambushed by 3 ambulas and some corpus boss who also invaded the grineer stronghold. you dispatch of them, anter the level with the final boss and there you fight with new enemy, sentient fused grineer made to combat tenno.he has 4 disruptors thatblocks tenno abilities. you destory them, destroy boss then see that there is a cloning device making them, so you have to hack couple of consoles while fighting more and more bosses , when hack is complete door opens and there is spy like room, your abilities are disabled you jump like crazy running in there and just destroy the console while all hell breaks loose, noxes and other*stronger* grineer troops start spawning and you run away to extraction. the end

i just made this up confirming that there is a way for de(which i love very mutch) to create endgame content. and the rewards should be decoration for the orbiter, new armor sets,primary weapon that you dont have to reload cus its creating ammo in itself or some crazy sh*** like that.

That's not endgame, it's a mishmash of existing basic missions. Basically a bounty on a tileset...

Armor scaling is still broken, damage scaling is still broken, it's either gonna be utterly trivialised by meta builds or nearly undoable.

The issue has never been creating long challenging levels in itself, it's twicking the game so that everything is not either easy AF nor totally undoable. And today, unless you were to force or ban the use of specific builds, it's not possible.

Your idea would just get cleared without a second thought, and it would stay that way no matter how much you increase ennemy lvl, until the point where even chroma would get one shot, aka too hard.

 

And another issue of endgame is sustainable rewards. Once people have farmed your decos and guns, they are just as left out of things to grind for as before, it doesn't solve anything.

Finally, I know you want a more cinematic mission here, but grineer, corpus AND sentients on the same map is way too much, would feel cartoony having all factions show up one after the other like that imo.

[mraz641]

first of all: im not a fan of wow so i wont play it is not an argument. destiny 2 has raids, lots of mmorpgs have raids, and you and i both know when i said like wow i meant continued mission with more then one boss and each boss drop items. i understand that you will be negative to each thing that a man presents on forum and can only criticize because thats what warframe forum is all about, negativity. it was my thought about it, and maybe you should build up on that thought so we can all think of something cool, for example you said 2 times what about levels. since i thought about this raid on a spot, i didnt specify levels. how about this: you can choose 3 options. normal option, where bots are 50 level and bosses usually drops mods or normal weapons. hard options where enemies are 100 level and bosses drop wraith weapon variants and more endo or some cool armor sets.and hardcore difficulty where enemies are level 130 but bosses gain new moves and more phases, and they would drop some endgame mods like prime mods or something like that. if you want. be constructive and build upon my idea or present your own, if you just want to bash me untill im dead with your negativity dont comment. also i dislike using k-drives, limbo and some other things about warframe but that doesnt mean i will quit playing it because i dont have to use those aspects of the game( this was meant to the guy who stopped playing wf when raids were a thing)

[Lazarow]

I dont like raids, I like missions with instructions and waypoints thank you. Only did one raid, no instructions from game, some person told us noobs what to do, after that never did one again it just wasnt worth it

[mraz641]

19 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

That's not endgame, it's a mishmash of existing basic missions. Basically a bounty on a tileset...

Armor scaling is still broken, damage scaling is still broken, it's either gonna be utterly trivialised by meta builds or nearly undoable.

The issue has never been creating long challenging levels in itself, it's twicking the game so that everything is not either easy AF nor totally undoable. And today, unless you were to force or ban the use of specific builds, it's not possible.

Your idea would just get cleared without a second thought, and it would stay that way no matter how much you increase ennemy lvl, until the point where even chroma would get one shot, aka too hard.

 

And another issue of endgame is sustainable rewards. Once people have farmed your decos and guns, they are just as left out of things to grind for as before, it doesn't solve anything.

Finally, I know you want a more cinematic mission here, but grineer, corpus AND sentients on the same map is way too much, would feel cartoony having all factions show up one after the other like that imo.

i agree i used other missions to create something new because its easier for de to use existing stuff and create something different. and they are working on lots of new things to focus on something brand new. it was a concept raid but i get your meaning of cartoony and everything coming together at the last second, i agree with you, maybe we can erase the corpus boss fight and add something else, write if you think of something

[mraz641]

2 minutes ago, Lazarow said:

I dont like raids, I like missions with instructions and waypoints thank you. Only did one raid, no instructions from game, some person told us noobs what to do, after that never did one again it just wasnt worth it

because it wasnt done right

[krc473]

4 minutes ago, mraz641 said:

you can choose 3 options. normal option, where bots are 50 level and bosses usually drops mods or normal weapons. hard options where enemies are 100 level and bosses drop wraith weapon variants and more endo or some cool armor sets.and hardcore difficulty where enemies are level 130 but bosses gain new moves and more phases, and they would drop some endgame mods like prime mods or something like that

You are making it substantially easier than I was expecting. I think the Very lowest level should be at least 80 - 100. You said Endgame, level 50 is easily clearable with AoE weapon’s or abilities (it really isn’t Endgame). Level 50 works if you want it to have a “practice” difficulty level. Perhaps that is the intention. I would say that the rewards are excellent for new people. For the people that would be looking for a endgame content it is just more pointless duplicates.

• An Endgame mode really needs sustainable rewards. Giving me a commitment is not a good reward. I refer to it as a commitment as the only value is in what I could sell it for. As the current things like this do not sell for much it is not worth the time.

10 minutes ago, mraz641 said:

since i thought about this raid on a spot

Some information is quite important when you are trying to convince people you have a good Endgame idea. Enemy levels and rewards are certainly essential. Sometimes it really is better to actually put some thought into your idea and expand it before you post. You cannot expect everyone else to develop your idea for you.

 

I do think that a long, multi-stage mission could make a good raid. It would of course have to be done correctly. There are many ways to mess this up. I am not too bothered about having different factions in the mission - you could add some type of transition zone where the factions fight.

[SilentMobius]

So, in my history of online gaming from MUDs to Quake to PSO, Anarchy-Online, City of Heroes, Champions, Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, (And "Oh this sucks" experience of Everquest, WOW, Dark Ages of Camelot, Star Wars ToR/G, ESO ) etc and now Warframe I've found one thing to be a universal truth.

Forced-teaming content is player-toxic and should be avoided at all costs.

All that happens is you create a strata of people who are only there for the rewards and another of people who want to organize other people. As the difficulty ramps up the Organizers get more and more selective about who the will allow into their groups, creating social pressure to exclude "undesirables" as a result of this pressure the organizers start constructing metrics to evaluate people and tokens to punish people. The only-there-for-the-rewards people get more resentful of the organizers and drift into worse and worse behaviour.

This is typified by WOW's "50DKP minus" meme.

It's just social-PvP: peoples' game time ends up consumed with clique-maintainance and organisation.

The strongest way to mitigate this toxicity is to ensure that all content scales down to be completable solo, that means that nobody is forced to team if it's not fun and those who are having fun teaming can do so (usually completing the content quicker or more fully as a result) with like-minded people only

Most of the time when someone says "Raid" they actually mean "forced teaming content" and that is a big no from me.

Edited October 9, 2019 by SilentMobius

[mraz641]

1 hour ago, krc473 said:

You are making it substantially easier than I was expecting. I think the Very lowest level should be at least 80 - 100. You said Endgame, level 50 is easily clearable with AoE weapon’s or abilities (it really isn’t Endgame). Level 50 works if you want it to have a “practice” difficulty level. Perhaps that is the intention. I would say that the rewards are excellent for new people. For the people that would be looking for a endgame content it is just more pointless duplicates.

• An Endgame mode really needs sustainable rewards. Giving me a commitment is not a good reward. I refer to it as a commitment as the only value is in what I could sell it for. As the current things like this do not sell for much it is not worth the time.

Some information is quite important when you are trying to convince people you have a good Endgame idea. Enemy levels and rewards are certainly essential. Sometimes it really is better to actually put some thought into your idea and expand it before you post. You cannot expect everyone else to develop your idea for you.

 

I do think that a long, multi-stage mission could make a good raid. It would of course have to be done correctly. There are many ways to mess this up. I am not too bothered about having different factions in the mission - you could add some type of transition zone where the factions fight.

i know, but if i said normal would be 140 lvl, and the hardest difficulty would be level 240+ because i myself have no problem with level 200 enemies, then someone would say that im making a raid for only players with good rivens and couple of frames that can go to that lenght with little to no effort.

[mraz641]

1 hour ago, SilentMobius said:

So, in my history of online gaming from MUDs to Quake to PSO, Anarchy-Online, City of Heroes, Champions, Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, (And "Oh this sucks" experience of Everquest, WOW, Dark Ages of Camelot, Star Wars ToR/G, ESO ) etc and now Warframe I've found one thing to be a universal truth.

Forced-teaming content is player-toxic and should be avoided at all costs.

All that happens is you create a strata of people who are only there for the rewards and another of people who want to organize other people. As the difficulty ramps up the Organizers get more and more selective about who the will allow into their groups, creating social pressure to exclude "undesirables" as a result of this pressure the organizers start constructing metrics to evaluate people and tokens to punish people. The only-there-for-the-rewards people get more resentful of the organizers and drift into worse and worse behaviour.

This is typified by WOW's "50DKP minus" meme.

It's just social-PvP: peoples' game time ends up consumed with clique-maintainance and organisation.

The strongest way to mitigate this toxicity is to ensure that all content scales down to be completable solo, that means that nobody is forced to team if it's not fun and those who are having fun teaming can do so (usually completing the content quicker or more fully as a result) with like-minded people only

Most of the time when someone says "Raid" they actually mean "forced teaming content" and that is a big no from me.

ofc there should be a way to play raids solo, where enemies will spawn less and bosses would be a bit easier with same reward pool

[SilentMobius]

1 minute ago, mraz641 said:

ofc there should be a way to play raids solo, where enemies will spawn less and bosses would be a bit easier with same reward pool

Cool beans, suggest away then

[Voltage]

3 hours ago, Aesthier said:

There was a reason I quit WoW and came to Warframe.

I was sick of raids.

 

If Warframe implements them again then I will quit like last time they implemented them.

 

We are getting Raids back eventually...

Edited October 9, 2019 by Voltage

[krc473]

13 hours ago, mraz641 said:

i know, but if i said normal would be 140 lvl, and the hardest difficulty would be level 240+ because i myself have no problem with level 200 enemies, then someone would say that im making a raid for only players with good rivens and couple of frames that can go to that lenght with little to no effort.

I might be mistaken, but isn’t ‘Endgame’ content aimed at people that can do that? It isn’t for the people that struggle with Sorties. It is for the people that have no problems going beyond the level of Sorties.

• Endgame content should be a challenge. If you need level 250 enemies to achieve that then have level 250 enemies. 

That’s an issue with the current supposedly ‘Endgame’ activities. They have been designed/or modified to better accommodate those that shouldn’t actually be doing it. If it is too hard, get better gear so you can do it. Don’t get it nerfed.