Why do Fist weapons have so little range?

[Gr1mwlf]

The range on these things makes them borderline unusable.

I've been using Furax Wraith on my Atlas, and it's insane trying to actually hit anything. I even put Primed Reach on it, and the range is still so short that his fists can visibly whiff right through an enemy and not connect. I have to be right on top of them.

And that's just one target. Most melee can easily hit multiple enemies close together, but fists have trouble even hitting one.

This is the main reason nobody uses them. It really needs to be fixed.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

Well, you're using your hands to punch things to death, so yeah they're gonna have shorter range compared to a stick.

[Gr1mwlf]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Well, you're using your hands to punch things to death, so yeah they're gonna have shorter range compared to a stick.

So A; the reach is shorter than the Warframe's arm. You have to be hugging the enemy for hits to actually connect. And B; functionality is more important than pure realism in a video game.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

5 minutes ago, Gr1mwlf said:

So A; the reach is shorter than the Warframe's arm. You have to be hugging the enemy for hits to actually connect. And B; functionality is more important than pure realism in a video game.

Punching dudes from 30m away is not functional on fists.

[Laveillon]

I would say, let's wait another 2 years on melee 3.0 and hopefully we can hug a tree and slam that into the enemy lines.

 

Jokes aside, they can be interesting sometimes, yes. Until we really have some info on the new melee system, complaining about them is not really going to achieve anything. Sorry Tenno, maybe in the future we can have more useful fist weapons/combos.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Laveillon
typo

[Gr1mwlf]

1 minute ago, Laveillon said:

I would say, let's wait another 2 years on melee 3.0 and hopefully we can hug a tree and slam that into the enemy lines.

 

Jokes aside, they can be interesting sometimes, yes. Until we really have some info on the new melee system, complaining about the is not really going to achieve anything. Sorry Tenno, maybe in the future we can have more useful fist weapons/combos.

Ah, I completely forgot that we can't get any melee changes until 3.0 never happens...

[Laveillon]

Well, i did not say we can't have, but the chances we get any is very slim. One can hope for a better dawn.

[Gr1mwlf]

2 minutes ago, Laveillon said:

Well, i did not say we can't have, but the chances we get any is very slim. One can hope for a better dawn.

When you brought it up, I was reminded of multiple occasions where staff said they wouldn't make a particular melee change until after melee 3.0. Like riven dispositions.

[Walkampf]

vor 49 Minuten schrieb (XB1)Skippy575:

Punching dudes from 30m away is not functional on fists.

Wrong:

 

 

 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

5 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Wrong:

 

 

Is it considered a fist weapon if you shoot it from a gun? Clearly I'm uneducated if that's the case lol

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

They’re fists. Last I check I can’t punch somebody that’s 5 feet away from me.

Edited October 11, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[G0D5peed]

7 hours ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Punching dudes from 30m away is not functional on fists.

unless youre baruuk but then youre baruuk

[Im_a_Turtle]

My question is why don't fist weapons grant + sprint speed or any other type of physical buff? Nobody carries fist weapons into level 30+ matches for just finisher moves, if it's even possible.

[DrivaMain]

Fist could acts like Atlas's landslide that if you attack or do certain combo you automatically lunge to the enemy to hit them. I hope melee 3.0 have some sort of "Gap closer" addition to fist weapons.

[bubbabenali]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb (XB1)Skippy575:

Well, you're using your hands to punch things to death, so yeah they're gonna have shorter range compared to a stick.

Yeah, that must be the reason for them also to have the widest impact radius on ground slams... Realism in a sci fi game. 

[(PSN)de_sch0sch]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb DrivaMain:

Fist could acts like Atlas's landslide that if you attack or do certain combo you automatically lunge to the enemy to hit them. I hope melee 3.0 have some sort of "Gap closer" addition to fist weapons.

DE at least showcased the idea of having the block combo to be kind of a gap closer a couple of devstreams ago.

[vaarnaaarne]

Though if the new Iron Staff forward+RMB is any example to go by, I would never ever call it a gap closer when it's slower than your normal sprint could be.

It really highlights the general problem with Fists and why so many melee weapon types simply aren't viable: Warframe only reward moves that hit at minimum anything in a large 180 degree arc. This is simple immutable reality because this is a horde fighting game. That's the other thing that the stance rework will have to address: All weapons need a minimum range of around 1.5m-2m (combined hopefully with changing all +Range mods for melee to be flat bonuses instead of % bonuses), all combos need at least a frontal arc, and all combos need to have no movement locks on them. The way combos should work is really just determining what sort of area you want to hit, and if you want to move faster than your sprint speed while attacking. It isn't gap closers that melee weapons need, it's rocket-powered steamrollers that can switch fluidly to stationary or just normal speed razorblade blenders.

Given that we have in the scheme possibility for 1-4 (or 5 if we include backwards as a possible input that's workable, that's probably the only one that would warrant a movement lock), it's completely doable to redesign all stances' combos around these fundamental needs any melee weapon has in Warframe.

Edited October 10, 2019 by vaarnaaarne

[Birdframe_Prime]

Okay, guys, girls and everyone in between... Contain the calamity that is your mammaries.

DE literally just said on the DevStream that a further Melee update is coming at the end of this month. Do you know what they said was in it? The Stance reworks. This is the one where all the weapons are getting their animations re-worked (not re-animated, just put together better) and the combos simplified so that we now have more viable ways of attacking with melee.

The Stance changes were previewed by Wukong's rework, so that there are four types of combo; Standing, Moving, Aimed Standing, Aimed Moving. These four types work differently for each weapon, but they're generically grouped into the idea of Standing = Higher damage, focused on the targets in front of you, Moving = mobile, lots of forward animations, multi-hit attacks for clearing trash mobs, Aimed Standing = AoE slams or launchers, Aimed Moving = Gap closing to perform a primer for further combos.

Also, this should be the Stat Update for weapons that adjusts the base range of every weapon type and, to compensate for higher base ranges, should slightly nerf Range mods to mean that the longest-range weapons like Zaw Polearms and Whips are about the same, while all of the tiny-range weapons will get a bigger boost.

Combine these two together, and you will have more effective fist weapons. The base range should be better, but still shorter than other weapons, but you should have a very decent ability to launch yourself at opponents with the Gap Closer in order to engage in the high-speed facial reconstruction via bladed knuckles that will cover for that shorter range.

It's right on the doorstep. The end of this month with the mainline that gives us Grendel, the reworks to Ember and Vauban, and probably a few more things to check in on.

[vaarnaaarne]

The range mods were never the problem, the problem was weapons that had far too little range in the first place to be viable! It would be better to change range mods to provide a flat bonus instead of a % based bonus rather than nerf them, that way they will hopefully reverse the existing situation and provide an even bigger benefit to weapons with lower range and are nerfed for Whips.

EDIT: Also just reworking the stances to be like Iron Staff isn't wrapping up. RMB switching weapons will still interfere with melee, and the new and improved inputs, and autoblock will still be nothing but a disruption.

Edited October 11, 2019 by vaarnaaarne

[Im_a_Turtle]

You know what we need? Archwing melee weapons to be unlocked for gravimag deploys, specifically the [Knux] . That'll definitely give us MOAR POWAH and MOAR REACH! Could you imagine Atlas with a pair of Knux? That'll be the day One Punch Atlas or Baruuk would dominate the melee scene.

[Tsamu]

A good gap closer only solves part of the problem, they'd still be at a disadvantage regarding the number of targets they can hit at once. DE could double-down on this and really focus their role into being single-target killers, like how single daggers get Covert Lethality. They could also give some attacks wave projectile properties, though that would step on Baruuk's toes a bit. Personally I'd like a bit of both, but in the form of a grapple/ground smash move that does AOE damage, or a throw/one-inch-punch that turns an enemy into a ragdoll projectile.

[vaarnaaarne]

The issue with lacking a wide attack arc is really just that single target killer isn't a viable niche in Warframe melee. There aren't enough enemies that would be tough enough to warrant that outside of super-high-level endless runs, and you can't even use it for certain types of bosses where such a function could be good like with Eidolons (in general melee functionality against bosses needs a lot of work).

[NoLazyShadow]

Melee 3.0 should fix that problem

[vaarnaaarne]

Hopefully.

[bubbabenali]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb NoLazyShadow:

Melee 3.0 should fix that problem

Sure... When it comes 2030. It will fix all problems melee has at the moment... Maybe