Ember rework discussion

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

Hello there! I don't want to clutter the forums or have the intention of placing feedback in the wrong spot, but I would like to discuss the new embers 2 in a more focused matter here (rather than dev workshop). Let me know what you think!

To please those so up in arms about WoF gone, increase the uniqueness of her 2, and to increase build diversity I suggest implementing a pseudo replacement WoF when the meter is full and immolation active. Instead of losing a ton of energy at once when the meter is full, the full meter instead starts to drain energy (fuel for the fire) at a very fast rate affected by efficiency and duration. Along with Damage reduction being maxed out and ability damage increased when the bar is full, a similar AoE "everything around me is now burning" kinda deal goes into affect at max meter. You could practically make it work the exact same way as WoF with mostly all the same numbers as her current fourth, just make the energy drain higher. I'm just trying to think of ways that are a good compromise for different passionate ember mains, and considering how much I love how Bastille and Vortex are combined for Vauban now, I figure a similar treatment could be given to Ember.

I like micromanaging play styles with a lot of synergy (Gauss quickly becoming a fave) so the full energy drain doesn't bother me that much, but a lot of people have an issue with it. My problem is that the bar seems to increase way too fast, and if it remains at that speed and I hit 100%? Then yes I will be quite livid when all my energy is suddenly gone. That's why I think it is way better to have an "overheat mode" rather than an "overheat condition". I don't want to be punished for flinging flames everywhere, I want more flames! All that said, the energy drain has got to be pretty massive, even with max efficiency and duration, because this is supposed to be her super mode of sorts and should only be active for so long. 

Once her 3 is used the overheat/WoF mode is deactivated and you need to build up the meter again. 

Perhaps this seems a bit too much for the base ability, and if so I highly suggest combining firequake and maybe her current 2 augment into one that can be used for this purpose and just keep the energy drain from current WoF. I would just really hate to see WoF go for all those who are such fans of it. I think its a great way to spice up her generic DR ability a bit and allow players to play Ember similarly as they do now. 

This will also dispel those wanting this ability to just become a passive (which I don't find entirely reasonable). 

I think this would be a good compromise, but let me know what you think! (Especially you Ember mains out there) 

[Kingsmount]

It'd be nice if her 2 also  ignited enemies in range around her, dealing increased damage the more Heat gauge she has.  The Firequake augment could make this ignition also cause a stun.  Or preferably, the stun would innately be a part of the ability (Bandaid augments suck).

This would also give it synergy with her passive. 

In fact,  her passive's range might also increase the more your hear gauge fills up, and enemies within range get ignited.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Kingsmount

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

6 minutes ago, Kingsmount said:

It'd be nice if her 2 also  ignited enemies in range around her, dealing increased damage the more Heat gauge she has.  The Firequake augment could make this ignition also cause a stun.  Or preferably, the stun would innately be a part of the ability (Bandaid augments suck).

This would also give it synergy with her passive. 

I agree with igniting enemies, but I dont think it should be innate when you activate her 2. Rather, its like a reward for filling up the meter by using her abilities in conjunction with one another. After all, at least in my opinion, it just takes the power of a currently 4th ability and just puts it on a 2nd ability which seems a tad bit too powerful if it requires no additional input.

I agree bandaid augments suck, but I feel like fire quake could do what a lot of augments recently have been doing with stat buffs. In this case I think like a 20-25% efficiency buff would be a great addition to it to incentivise putting this augment on your build, even if you dont like WoF playstyle. For example, you still have to charge your meter all the way to activate the firequake WoF for her 2, but at least you'll have some efficiency while it drains your energy.

[xZeromusx]

I think DE is taking the wrong direction in making the gauge consume all your energy if you max it. Something along the lines of what Gauss has would have been a lot smarter. The goal should be to max the gauge and keep it maxed, and giving the ability a duration of 10/12/15/18 seconds. Casting it does nothing, and doing nothing does nothing. But as you inflict fire procs and use abilities, the gauge would fill, slowly increasing to 20/30/40/50% damage reduction at max (affected by ability strength and maxing out at 90%). Once maxed, and only when maxed, the ability begins to inflict burning damage on enemies in a 7/10/12/15m radius for its remaining duration before fading at the end. If you stop inflicting burning procs or using abilities for 5 seconds, the ability would begin to degrade, and you lose the fire AOE as the damage reduction slowly diminishes. Recasting the ability could refresh the duration and increase the gauge.

Remedies the annoyance of "Balance this new gauge or risk losing all your energy", the boringness of WoF, and provides proper damage reduction, and encourages filling the gauge.

Edited October 9, 2019 by xZeromusx

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

4 minutes ago, xZeromusx said:

I think DE is taking the wrong direction in making the gauge consume all your energy if you max it. Something along the lines of what Gauss has would have been a lot smarter. The goal should be to max the gauge and keep it maxed, and giving the ability a duration of 10/12/15/18 seconds. Casting it does nothing, and doing nothing does nothing. But as you inflict fire procs and use abilities, the gauge would fill, slowly increasing to 20/30/40/50% damage reduction at max (affected by ability strength and maxing out at 90%). Once maxed, and only when maxed, the ability begins to inflict burning damage on enemies in a 7/10/12/15m radius for its remaining duration before fading at the end. If you stop inflicting burning procs or using abilities for 5 seconds, the ability would begin to degrade, and you lose the fire AOE as the damage reduction slowly diminishes. Recasting the ability could refresh the duration and increase the gauge.

Remedies the annoyance of "Balance this new gauge or risk losing all your energy", the boringness of WoF, and provides proper damage reduction, and encourages filling the gauge.

Most everyone can agree the all energy gone equals bad, and I agree in that it shouldn't be the focus of the gauge. The point where our views differ is how the makeshift WoF is supposed to play out. I like the idea that its similar to Gauss in that you need to continue using abilities to keep it active, but I think in order to distinguish Ember more from Gauss the ability should be more of an "overheat mode" that consumes energy rather than gauge. This would allow tenno who still want ember strictly for WoF able to sort of build for it with efficiency rather than strictly duration for the WoF flame buff when gauge is full. 

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

Plus, since her 3 is almost strictly used off of gauge economy, you'd have to find a workaround for it too. But I like the idea of releasing gauge with 3 and using energy for pretty much everything else.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

I hated embers energy drain. Real fires keep burning the more things around them, not randomly go out lol

Feel like ember should be simular to this, gain energy from heat proc affected enemies near her cause she has more things to burn. The more a fire has things to burn, the longer it will be there on fire, ember should be the same

 

I also feel like ember should give heat procs a special effect when near her. Like only when ember is near a enemy on fire will it begin to strip armor

 

With those two things, and her new rework? Ember will be as scary as a forest fire. Energy pfft, you cant stop the fire once it really gets going 😈😈😈😈

Edited October 10, 2019 by (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

2 hours ago, (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII said:

I hated embers energy drain. Real fires keep burning the more things around them, not randomly go out lol

Feel like ember should be simular to this, gain energy from heat proc affected enemies near her cause she has more things to burn. The more a fire has things to burn, the longer it will be there on fire, ember should be the same

As it stands the only way they'd give her that capability would be to replace her passive (else her two would be way to similar to gauss) which I am not a fan of because I like spicy. But I love the idea! Makes sense thematically and would be really cool gameplay wise. I think DE could totally work that into a sick augment! Perhaps give it to her second ability and keep its current functionality (loose energy at 100% meter) but allow players a way to gain more energy via the fire procs. Then the base ability can retain the proposed WoF change and everybody is happy!

2 hours ago, (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII said:

I also feel like ember should give heat procs a special effect when near her. Like only when ember is near a enemy on fire will it begin to strip armor

Im much more partial to the idea that fire procs will do that anyway (as proposed), since it'll not only make ember better, but every mod that has fire damage as well. 

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

12 hours ago, Obe-Ron-Kenobi said:

Im much more partial to the idea that fire procs will do that anyway (as proposed), since it'll not only make ember better, but every mod that has fire damage as well. 

Lol saryn, mesa, frost, and more warframes say thats not a negative. We can do more than that, a lot more

[xZeromusx]

I think I also prefer fire procs to just have the armor reduction as a base part of the game. I use the Ignis Wraith on more than just Ember after all.