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Theramalse

Atlas changes to round out his kit.

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Atlas prime is here, and he has finally fixed the biggest complaint I had with atlas, his base stats were not as tanky as I would have liked (I know base stats on original atlas are pretty damn tanky, but I always felt in use he still got  shredded quicker than my tankros build sans shield of shadows somehow.) and he felt less like a rock for it. Now that that part is solved I'd like to be "That guy" and share my own dream adjustments to Atlas's kit.

Passive: Generally I like his passive, but with the QOL changes for Gauss's meter mechanics, the upcoming Ember meter, and the generally rock solid Nidus meter mechanic, ("Stacks aren't meters!" Shh, different name I know but its still a resource that you fill up and expend.) Atlas's Rubble is tedious, clunky, and often not worthwhile to invest in. For instance, Gauss merely has to move and his meter is capped in seconds, Atlas's best case scenario assuming no efficiency is that he uses at least 100 energy (75 to petrify, 25 to landslide for max rubble output.) for a meager return of around 75 to 250 rubble depending on group size, this is further made painful because anything lower than cap health steals that rubble before it is added to your meter for healing you likely don't need. As many have suggested I would start by allowing rubble to always be added to armor regardless of health and simply make the healing a third or so of what it already is. That fixes the most annoying part of the passive, Spending energy and getting health instead of rubble. The only thing I believe this passive needs beyond this is another equally simple change, larger amounts of rubble in all cases or a further reduced decay rate. This would make the passive feel less like a nagging, micromanage-y side objective in every mission.

Landslide: I know many disagree with me on this, but all I want is the removal of the stat stick on this one. I don't believe it needs anything else besides the ability to be modded individually, but I suppose they could give landslide it's own disposition and make it accept any melee riven. The augment (Which at least from my recent testing seems broken right now, ie the trail is invisible and the effect is incredibly inconsistent.) should increase in width with range stat.

Tectonics: After considering for a moment I've come to the conclusion that the way to solve the problems with this ability is simple. Punch it. That's right. leave it entirely the same, but allow atlas to cast his 1 on it to immediately turn it into a physics-enabled boulder that pinballs around the area with Glaive-like homing. Deals the same damage as when recast, plus 25% of the boulder health to the enemies stuck inside every time it impacts a surface, detonates after not moving/impacting anything for 10 seconds. Not cool enough you say? Hold on says I, for that's not all. Allow rumblers to pick up and throw/bat the boulder around towards enemies with enhanced homing, adding any enemies contacted to those already stuck in the boulder and causing damaging impacts. It's like your pets and the roller floofs but deadly.

Petrify: I honestly think this one doesn't need my help.

Rumblers: Like above, I want to be able to punch my unsatisfactory abilities into their new glorious purpose. I propose we be allowed to obliterate our rumblers with our 1 (only when directly targeted, aoe shouldn't count.) for buffs. Destroying the first rumbler should be a complete fill of our rubble meter. Destroying the second should give us a buff I tentatively would dub "Gorgons eye" a fifteen or so second buff in which petrify is emitted at a short range from Atlas's face (The way it used to work, sans upper body restricting animation.) for no more energy cost than what it takes to punch the rumbler.

 

Well those are my thoughts. I'm sure a lot of people disagree and have their own Ideas, some folks are calling for a full rework still after all. But I'm open to discussion on these Ideas and wouldn't mind hearing feedback.

Edited by Theramalse
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I definitely think petrify needs to have its cost reduced. Even with maximum efficiency, the power drain makes it difficult to keep up a constant supply of rubble.

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1 hour ago, Theramalse said:

Landslide: I know many disagree with me on this, but all I want is the removal of the stat stick on this one. I don't believe it needs anything else besides the ability to be modded individually, but I suppose they could give landslide it's own disposition and make it accept any melee riven. The augment (Which at least from my recent testing seems broken right now, ie the trail is invisible and the effect is incredibly inconsistent.) should increase in width with range stat.

Exalted weapons only have 60 capacity compared to the 70 capacity we get with stat sticks. We'd also lose out on the additional elemental and I/P/S stats that rivens can provide. And syndicate mods too.

If Landslide were made separatley moddable then I think it would need buffs to the base ability or else its a flat nerf. Sure we'd free up our melee weapon to be used as we wish, but other frames make much better weapon  platforms than Atlas (they move faster or have better self buffs.) 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Ragology said:

Exalted weapons only have 60 capacity compared to the 70 capacity we get with stat sticks. We'd also lose out on the additional elemental and I/P/S stats that rivens can provide. And syndicate mods too.

If Landslide were made separatley moddable then I think it would need buffs to the base ability or else its a flat nerf. Sure we'd free up our melee weapon to be used as we wish, but other frames make much better weapon  platforms than Atlas (they move faster or have better self buffs.) 

I absolutely understand the difference in capacity argument, and I probably should have said something about a higher base capacity as well as the riven changes I proposed. What I proposed in letting Landslide equip ANY melee riven, utilizing it's own unique (landslide specific) disposition, would absolutely not take away the I/P/S stats as an option. As far as the syndicate augments I don't see them being as much a loss as most feel they would be considering the damage I can put out with an incomplete prisma dual cleavers setup with or without Justice blades. Again I acknowledge I may be in the minority on this one, I just value the ability to actually use Tekko/Furax/Ankyros on the brawler frame without having to build them for his fists rather than the crit/status builds they excel with.

Edited by Theramalse

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7 hours ago, Endorphinz said:

I definitely think petrify needs to have its cost reduced. Even with maximum efficiency, the power drain makes it difficult to keep up a constant supply of rubble.

Yes, and make it an upper body animation so you can move while flashing.

Rubble IMO should drop from Landslide direct kills (rocks shatter from Atlas' fist) and Tectonics breaking apart (wall and boulder).

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4 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

Yes, and make it an upper body animation so you can move while flashing.

Rubble IMO should drop from Landslide direct kills (rocks shatter from Atlas' fist) and Tectonics breaking apart (wall and boulder).

Heal and armor buff coming just from his 1 is a bit to much IMHO, or it should be lower values (10 instead of 50)

Concerning his 3, I too think the cost should be lowered to 50, or the angle should scale with range

As for his 4, they should remove the timer. It's a cheap fix while they can work on something better. If Wukong can get a powerful clone for 25 energy for an unlimited duration, why can't Atlas get 2 mediocre rock buddies for 100 energy for an unlimited duration too ?

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Been asking for an Atlas rework for YEARS.

1) No stat sticks and have it's own mods. Buff damage to accommodate losing mods like Blade of Truth and rivens. Add mechanic (holding 1) that allows the skill to override melee that does current combos and only costs energy when used similar to Hildryn's. Combo up to 8 for better energy efficiency and range. "But the damage needs to be insane to balance losing mods!" Yes and that's fine, Landslide is amazing but it's also a clunky melee skill.

2) Would rather have it shatter like a shotgun (super wide) blast with each piece acting like a Plasmor style shot, punch through, damage multiplied by current combo meter. Casting Petrify will stud the wall with spikes (cheval de frise), bleeding enemies rubbing against it and punching it will cause bleed damage on top of it's normal thing.

3) Lower cost, maybe lower freeze time to balance.

4) Basically do what Wukong's clone does when skills are used but with slightly weaker skills. Landslide causes them slide punch into enemies, damage mult by combo. Tectonic causes them to roll into each other while picking up enemies, collecting them into one spot and damaging them based of average health numbers. Petrify releases a petrifying blast similar to what happens when Rumblers are cast but slightly larger radius.

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15 hours ago, Endorphinz said:

I definitely think petrify needs to have its cost reduced. Even with maximum efficiency, the power drain makes it difficult to keep up a constant supply of rubble.

I 100% agree, a Rubble rework is what I wanted most from his prime release. Instead we got nothing at all.

Also, I don't like exalted weapons as a concept so I'd prefer if Atlas doesn't move in that direction.

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I posted my thoughts on reddit so I'll just copy what I said and show you my take on how to improve his kit.

Landslide. Currently it needs no changes. If we remove the stat stick feature, then all warframes require another ability rework that depend on stat-sticks by adding a modding feature and only show those mods that benefited before. Oh, and you'll need more forma if you want their abilities to be as effective as it was with stat-sticks.

Tectonics. Ok, this ability is somewhat useful. It can block doorways, cover defense targets and cover yourself and allies if you're in a pickle. But its boulder part is underwhelming. Even if you boost it with Petrify, it still doesn't do enough damage other than pushing enemies away. So how to improve it? Add Gara's 4th ability scaling. If an enemy gets hit by the boulder, his health is then converted and added as total damage for boulder's explosion. Example: 3 enemies, 3000 health each, they get hit by the boulder, boulder explodes and deals 9000 damage. And, to balance things out, make it deal blast damage. Petrify boost will double the damage. (It may sound overpowered but if you're a game developer, you have to go crazy first, then balance things out later.)

Petrify. Make Atlas' passive armor decay slower.

Rumblers. Two things need to be improved. How long the rumblers can stay and their use in high-level combat. If you use Petrify on rumblers, their duration is reset. If they take damage, they deal more damage (kinda like Chroma's Vex Armor's Rage buff). And add a small chance for them to petrify enemies by punching them or throwing boulders. Also, add a tap&hold function. Tapping the 4th ability button on an enemy will make the rumblers target that specific enemy. Holding the 4th ability button will make the rumblers explode. If you use the augment, tapping the button will target a specific enemy, holding down the button will make the rumbler slam the ground and knockdown enemies.

Edited by RobRalneR
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I have always thought the Rumblers need to just stick around until they are destroyed. I can't really comment on the other abilities compared with other frames as I am still a noob as I have only used Atlas, Volt and Nyx.

It would be nice if the ruble armor did not decay so quickly.

I have thought Atlas and Rhino as being the biggest/heavy frames should get just a straight damage bonus with melee weapons and reduced recoil on ranged weapons. The frames all have different sprint speeds, so it would make sense that they would have different physical strength ratings. As generally in other games and real life, the slowest usually hits the hardest. A feather weight would land a lot of hits on a heavy weight, but would get knocked down when the heavy weight guy landed a hit. 

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14 hours ago, TheLocalHentai said:

Been asking for an Atlas rework for YEARS.

1) No stat sticks and have it's own mods. Buff damage to accommodate losing mods like Blade of Truth and rivens. Add mechanic (holding 1) that allows the skill to override melee that does current combos and only costs energy when used similar to Hildryn's. Combo up to 8 for better energy efficiency and range. "But the damage needs to be insane to balance losing mods!" Yes and that's fine, Landslide is amazing but it's also a clunky melee skill.

2) Would rather have it shatter like a shotgun (super wide) blast with each piece acting like a Plasmor style shot, punch through, damage multiplied by current combo meter. Casting Petrify will stud the wall with spikes (cheval de frise), bleeding enemies rubbing against it and punching it will cause bleed damage on top of it's normal thing.

3) Lower cost, maybe lower freeze time to balance.

4) Basically do what Wukong's clone does when skills are used but with slightly weaker skills. Landslide causes them slide punch into enemies, damage mult by combo. Tectonic causes them to roll into each other while picking up enemies, collecting them into one spot and damaging them based of average health numbers. Petrify releases a petrifying blast similar to what happens when Rumblers are cast but slightly larger radius.

 

1: I don't know about an upper limit of 8x mult for landslide man, the energy cost reduction by cast number three would essentially mean you could ignore the existence of energy. As for the buffs to compensate for no stat stick, it seems it would only need a base damage buff equivalent to one of the syndicate augments, and the ability to equip any melee riven (my personal preference) or its own (I do not like the idea of rivens for moddable abilities.).

2: I considered the shattering when punched idea before the pinball suggestion I made in the original post, but it made it too similar to gara's ability to smash her wall outwards with her lash in my opinion.

3: it seems so far that everyone else favors a cost decrease for petrify and I can't say I disagree.

4: I like the idea of the rumblers sort of shadowing your actions, but once again I feel like it makes it too similar to an existing ability (Wukong clone.) and I tend to shy away from abilities feeling too similar to other frames.

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