I won't pay to rush builds, but I'd pay for a faster foundry

[Ikusi_Prime]

Everyone knows that rushing build is a plat trap. It's meant to tempt you into spending money to have things now, rather than wait.

I don't rush things because I know it's a waste, but I would spend money on a foundry upgrade that made things build faster.

If there was a Foundry Prime in the market for 500p that reduced the build times of everything by 33%, I would definitely buy that. That feels far less predatory and mobile-game-esque than the option to rush.

[Blexander]

As reasonable as this is, DE won't add it. The cost from rushing builds is technically insignificant, but it adds up. Let's do a hypothetical:

There are 100 items that take 1 day to build and cost 15 plat to rush. The faster foundry costs 500 plat, and lowers the build timer by a third. Now, the 100 items are built in 16h and cost 10 plat. It basically paid for itself.

In this hypothesis, we're under the assumption that a noticable portion of plat is spent on rushing(therefore, necessitating more frequent plat purchases), and that item build timers scale rush costs.

[Voltage]

Probably not going to happen.

I like how the foundry currently works. The only QoL I would like to see is a foundry queue with a cap of 1 hour. This way, all items over 1 hour are left the way they are, but consumable restores and similar items could be tied together in a string.

I currently rush Warframes to skip the 3 day wait (I wait 12 hours for the parts), and I like that the foundry cannot be globally faster, you just selectively choose what you want to wait on and what you want immediately.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Voltage

[FrostDragoon]

3 hours ago, Blexander said:

As reasonable as this is, DE won't add it. The cost from rushing builds is technically insignificant, but it adds up. Let's do a hypothetical:

There are 100 items that take 1 day to build and cost 15 plat to rush. The faster foundry costs 500 plat, and lowers the build timer by a third. Now, the 100 items are built in 16h and cost 10 plat. It basically paid for itself.

In this hypothesis, we're under the assumption that a noticable portion of plat is spent on rushing(therefore, necessitating more frequent plat purchases), and that item build timers scale rush costs.

Except that isn't how it works at all. The cost to rush doesn't scale down until near the very end, so in 16 hours those items are still close to (if not) 15p each. Aside from that, nobody rushes those kinds of items that often. Maybe something they really want on a rare occasion. Otherwise, you're talking about something like rushing forma because you're basically trading blueprints for a 5p discount on 3, but that's assuming you were going to spend that plat either way. In the case of forma, building in 8 hours vs 12 isn't really significant either, because the point is that you need those forma right away for whatever your current project is. The VAST majority of items will never be rushed. This upgrade would simply reduce the time-gate on some of your MR progression, and that's assuming you always get that stuff on time and level it asap. If not, it doesn't matter that much anyway.

 

In either case, my objection to the OP's proposal is that the foundry build times are atrocious and scummy to begin with. The option to rush with plat is one of DE's (morally) lowest forms of p2w/monetization in the game and we all would be better off if they drastically reduced or eliminated the build times across the board.

[peterc3]

3 hours ago, Blexander said:

As reasonable as this is, DE won't add it.

This isn't reasonable given the nature of the monetization of the game.

4 hours ago, Ikusi_Prime said:

If there was a Foundry Prime in the market for 500p that reduced the build times of everything by 33%, I would definitely buy that. That feels far less predatory and mobile-game-esque than the option to rush.

500p is less than several bundles of items in the Market. How is losing future revenue worth only 500p per person?

[Birdframe_Prime]

The specific thing that needs to change in the Foundry are the build times that are divisible by 24 hours. If you've spent all evening grinding to get the parts for a Warframe, you set off the individual parts on your frame at 12 Hours each, simultaneously or staggered as you find them, this means that you won't be able to claim the last part until the time you play the next day. What if you play later the next day, just by an hour or so, but you wouldn't normally play at that time... then you set off the main build for the 72 Hours? When you get there, three days later, that build has to be picked up later in the day than when you set it off, and if you were late setting it off during your previous play session... you're not going to pick it up until the end of this session.

This is far more noticeable with Forma, the 24 Hour build means that no matter when your Forma is finished, when you claim it, it will always be more than 24 Hours from when you set it off, meaning the next one you set off will be later, and later, and later, meaning that no matter what, you will miss a day, effectively miss the chance to make a Forma, because you can't play at the point when your last Forma is finished, and so must claim it the next day instead. Just resetting that cycle until it happens again.

All Foundry items should never have a build time that is directly divisible by 24 Hours. Give us even just 1 hour less, for a 23 hour Forma, for a 71 Hour Warframe. Allow us to claim our stuff even just an hour earlier means that the overall number of days per item is always going to be preserved, but there's no time-creep that causes us to miss days.

[FrostDragoon]

I don't think your average player logs into the game on such a regimented schedule that those time issues are major issues as much as just the sheer wait time itself.

[Ikusi_Prime]

28 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

This isn't reasonable given the nature of the monetization of the game.

500p is less than several bundles of items in the Market. How is losing future revenue worth only 500p per person?

To my understanding, very few people rush anything, and a fraction of those people rush most of what they build. I haven't spent a cumulative 500p on rushing anything, and I've played this game for years.

If it came with new assets like a shiny Foundry to go in the Orbiter, more people would buy it. You'd get the people who have plat to burn that would normally be spent rushing, plus the people like me who don't rush but would appreciate a faster foundry, plus the collectors and fashion enthusiasts. 

I think the devs would make more money from this price point than they would from rushing things. 

[FrostDragoon]

It's not as if it removes the option to rush either.

[peterc3]

4 hours ago, Ikusi_Prime said:

If it came with new assets like a shiny Foundry to go in the Orbiter, more people would buy it.

Not only reducing the urge to speed things up by dropping all times by a third, but new assets too?

[FrostDragoon]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

Not only reducing the urge to speed things up by dropping all times by a third, but new assets too?

Yeah, seems like a decent idea. Not sure why you'd have a problem with it, but from what I've seen you tend to be quite negative about nearly any suggestion people make. Quite often with the "DE would lose money" nonsense, which anyone could argue if they want to twist things around enough while missing the point.

[peterc3]

Just now, FrostDragoon said:

Yeah, seems like a decent idea. Not sure why you'd have a problem with it, but from what I've seen you tend to be quite negative about nearly any suggestion people make. Quite often with the "DE would lose money" nonsense, which anyone could argue if they want to twist things around enough while missing the point.

Nearly every suggestion on the forums is bad. Me commenting on something does not compel people to respond or acknowledge my comments.

When OP says X thing makes Warframe feel mobile gamey, they aren't connecting the dots and it shows. The common aspect is the free to download, free to play nature of the game. The main driver of money being spent is on cosmetics or pay to progress faster. Pretending this game isn't fully playable for free and that most people aren't going to spend a cent on it will not make an idea appear in the game faster or even at all.

[Avienas]

8 hours ago, Voltage said:

Probably not going to happen.

I like how the foundry currently works. The only QoL I would like to see is a foundry queue with a cap of 1 hour. This way, all items over 1 hour are left the way they are, but consumable restores and similar items could be tied together in a string.

I currently rush Warframes to skip the 3 day wait (I wait 12 hours for the parts), and I like that the foundry cannot be globally faster, you just selectively choose what you want to wait on and what you want immediately.

^^^^Basically this is the incentives on how the foundry works. If the time was insanely huger then it already is, then people would have massive grounds to complain, especially if it became something like 7 whole days to build the entire warframe, though considering how rng-sus factor the relic/trace/part acquiring is, its technically that but i am mostly pointing out the time on the foundry portion on making the 3 parts and then combining them to start building the warframe itself.

Having consumable based goods like pancakes and keys should DE.FIN.IT.ELY., allow one to que up to multiple items and let you claim them in partial amounts as each one is completed, even better if D.E. simply had it where we could customize the foundry to auto-claim goods as it reaches X stack and we get it via the inbox: Seriously we bloody need more uses for the inbox cause the most normal thing it gets used for is Ghoul Purge announcements, Baro ki`teer arrival or invasion rewards shipping, which the latter you might not even run into that much at all unless you are currently doing outbreak for season 2 of nightwave.

I used to rush new warframes especially if they were extremely interesting, but since i am feeling the burn out more and more-so, i simply waited on everything these days, especially for the Atlas prime drop, where i was forced to purchase some of the Tekko Prime parts with plat, due to Disruption glitches utterly ruining any decent relic farming. I could of took the `normal` route, but its a much less inefficient way now, especially when chasing specifically Axi and Neo based relics, especially since interception your usually going to want a pre-made group that you have to have everyone at full attention for easily a hour or longer if you want to hit the `satisfactory quantity amount` when chasing Rare or even Uncommon part drops. Which i tend to see at around 4 to 10 if one wants to be extra safe to next to `gurantee` a part, AKA another reason i feel that the current fissure system is insanely in need of Quality of life improvements too. Just like how PLENTY of other warframe systems need major QoL Overhauls much SOONER, then later.

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Avienas

[FrostDragoon]

7 hours ago, Avienas said:

Basically this is the incentives on how the foundry works. If the time was insanely huger then it already is, then people would have massive grounds to complain

They already do and the game has missed out on innumerable players over the years as a result. It's one of the topic complaints in the "Why New Players Don't Stick Around" category. It doesn't make the game any better. It's one of the scummiest forms of MTX in the game. It's also completely arbitrary. The main reason so many people are okay with it now is simply a combination of getting used to it and Stockholm Syndrome.

[Test-995]

4 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

They already do and the game has missed out on innumerable players over the years as a result. It's one of the topic complaints in the "Why New Players Don't Stick Around" category. It doesn't make the game any better. It's one of the scummiest forms of MTX in the game. It's also completely arbitrary. The main reason so many people are okay with it now is simply a combination of getting used to it and Stockholm Syndrome.

Also because it doesn't really affect players past MR 4-5, the biggest problem with it is lowbies tend to lose things to do because of those forced wait time, but it's mostly not a problem for people with plenty of equipment.

[FrostDragoon]

19 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Also because it doesn't really affect players past MR 4-5, the biggest problem with it is lowbies tend to lose things to do because of those forced wait time, but it's mostly not a problem for people with plenty of equipment.

It's also one of the many ways that WF screams "I'm a p2w Chinese cash grab" through a megaphone at a new players, even if it isn't entirely in reality.

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

It's also one of the many ways that WF screams "I'm a p2w Chinese cash grab" through a megaphone at a new players, even if it isn't entirely in reality.

Still better then how some games tend to work. Such as:

• Able to get `blueprints` for weapons by doing matches, but its usually randomized between a regular/rare one and usually you want to win said daily match when it pulls up (since its placed randomly between the 5 `daily match bit`), because its on a spinner to decide if you get it and if you don`t you can get a bonus % chance to acquire the next one but it also is on said spinner. Plus said game can have a Antagonist player ruin your chances of winning a match if they are strong. Which can also be bad if you decide to be antagonist instead, on that match since you could get bulldozed by some team with oppressive composition. Plus said random bp relies on you using the character for said one, but since its random you can`t pick which one you want and you can get duplicates. Oh plus you may not even know if said weapon is good or not and how you should build its bonus stats(which your going to do multiple times to rebuild them constantly for higher base stats as you unlock better `crafting tiers`) without relying on guide videos (Space Lords).

 

• Games that can require you to make tons of investments in resources and be time-gated to spend MANY days to get said resources and you can`t chase much else cause the time-gating also has to include a stamina bar on top of that to not let you do much else, oh plus the recovery rate takes more then 1 stamina per 5 minutes, aka somewhere between 6 to 8 and you could spend hundreds of stamina on just one of these activities every day. (Pretty much any mobile game/pseudo-mobile game with a bad setup and not-so-generous recovery options, aka none of those full recovery options and the only one giving a limited amount such as 60 stm and increasing the cost for each `purchase` with the premium currency as a daily `cap`).

 

• Games that restrict itself in very heavy ways where despite it being a Free to Play game, will gate practically half or even more of the content unless you have a paid subscription, despite also being a extremely old game and even is loaded with huge amounts of `premium options` at very bad pricing models that scream even greedier Chinese cash grab game, oh plus wastes no time spamming you with the usual flags that you can get alot more if you buy a booster pack, especially either during/immediately after the tutorial. (Dofus and several other games i could likely name but would be tiresome to go over).

Well, this is turning into a slight ramble but it pretty much comes down to what actually is more fair kind of game, since some will either be rude to the new players, rude to the veterans or rude to both and finding those titles which keeps as minimal as possible between those 3 when i try to find a free to play game, since i have to be quite harsh while looking at a online game you have to buy, since i am never a fan of ones that load up excessive premium options, if i already paid the entry fee and expect to get sizable content, before i even consider shelling out more money, since i paid to Enjoy a game, not to skip grind or further access it, especially if said `extra fee`, would end up with me spending just as much or even more then what i paid to even first get said game.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Avienas

[FrostDragoon]

I agree with a fair bit of that post, but it's not really what I was trying to address. I was pointing out how it appears to new players and the effect that it has on pushing them away.

[Avienas]

14 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

I agree with a fair bit of that post, but it's not really what I was trying to address. I was pointing out how it appears to new players and the effect that it has on pushing them away.

Hence why D.E. is supposedly working on that finally a bit with the empyrean update, but considering they took so long to do so and we got Destiny 2`s New light now out and the global release of Phantasy star online 2 coming next spring, well D.E. better be rather substantial on improving new player experiences while cleaning up the long-term player one to boot. Though from what i heard on Destiny 2`s new player experience now is its not as friendly since your basically dropped straight into the tower since it sounds like for the most part, they might as well of removed the entire segment of the city getting attacked, the whole segment where you do not have your powers and like some magical `chosen one`, you are pretty much the only Guardian to get theirs back. But considering i did not try to replay the game that much while looking for other things to enjoy while on semi-hiatus with warframe, maybe its just me mis-understanding how much they had changed the game from the original version of destiny 2.

Well, guess we will just have to wait and see when D.E. starts doing the devstreams that will come after the Grendel release, since it would be very nice to know what else we are getting for the Grendel release, on top of the Ember & Vauban rework one. Since the only things i recall that much were some small QoLs like weapon exilus slots and the railjack segment release bits which i hope are not spaced out too far from each other to where it might not be till next summer that we start getting to the juicy bits of the warframe empyrean update. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Avienas