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(PS4)Hopper_Orouk

Why rolling guard is better than quick thinking and Adaptation

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I am not sure there can be a direct better / worse comparison. 

Each has a playstyle it suits. 

Better question could be on which build could it replace vitality? 

I run my limbo, banshee and vauban with rolling guard (on some builds) 

I run my Nezha, Mesa Equinox with adaptation 

I run my Garuda, Trinity with QT (QT needs flow / primed flow + rage to be effective but most of my builds are tight and don't use it that often and wouldn't really be a suitable vitality replacement) 

Each has a different playstyle, but I cannot say one is better than the other. 

The adaptation and rolling guard mods are kinda at opposite spectrums of the curve.

One ramps up over time the other bursts and fizzles for some time. 

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I use Rolling on my Ivara mostly for removing status procs or an emergency that pulls me out of invis as I don't use survival mods on her. Works great for what it is but it doesn't make me near as tanky as Adaptation, nor does it make me unkillable like my QT / Rage Nova.

Different horses for different courses. 

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il y a 5 minutes, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk a dit :

I use it like this

I roll when i'm about to fight group of enemies

I roll to get rid of status procs

I roll to protect myself from energy spike

It's situational i know...but it's very useful against high level enemies...or bosses

The fact it's situation is what make it bad. Situationnal things are good, but only if the situations you need it actually exists.
This mod is situational, have huge drawback (you can't use roll properly) AND have better alternatives that don't have these drawback.

Why would you spend a mod slot, restrict yourself for using rolls and wait that 7s cooldown when you can instead non of those, go in operator mode, spam a few dash, stun everything and go back to you warframe in less that 3 seconds ? The answer is simple, you don't unless you want to challenge yourself, which mean the mod is not good.

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Keep rolling if you like. I don't roll, I chop. Chop, chop.

The only time I thought "Rolling Guard would be useful now", was in The Index hunting the poster.

On the other hand, I don't do level X-hundred runs either...

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Rolling guard is simply not reliable enough. First, it is sensitive to even moderate lag like 100 msec. You think you rolled? Think twice because the host says that you did not. Second, It does not protect against something you have no idea is coming. You have to roll before it hits you. That means if you simply dodge or roll or jump out without the mod, you will survive just fine in most cases. And while you think that Rolling guard saved you, it is your mobility that actually saved you and this has nothing to do with the mod. Third, since you don't get hit, you get no benefit of Hunter adrenaline or Rage. Forth, it has a cool down, so if you get hit during the cool down, well, you simply die. So, IMO, it is situationally useful on some builds of some frames during some boss fights, specifically Eidolons and Profit taker, mostly in random groups of people who actively do not want or simply cannot revive or are barely able to handle the content as survival should not be an issue with proper builds and team composition. Otherwise, a pretty peculiar mechanics but not very practical in the majority of cases. However, it gives more options and more options are always good.

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I like to use it on some frames that have frustratingly slow casting-speeds. Still use it on Nova for example, which is handy when you need to drop a molecular prime in busy areas. 

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2 hours ago, .OwOkin. said:

it would be better if there isn't cooldown at all

i don't get it, so u suggest instead of having cool down, it should ... remove your ability to roll for a while after use? base on how u compare it to hildryn (she's completely vulnerable when shield start recharge.

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I like reliability and rolling guard kind of isnt with my playstyle. Im always out in situations where i dont want to rely on a 30% uptime mod to help me as opposed to something that will make my abilities more effective or just having more hp/armor.

My operator is always available and comes with a full heal/escape/cc. If anything is gonna kill me quicker than i can slam my operator button, rolling guard wont help either and is a wasted slot.

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19 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

So i should use vigorous swap?

You can use whatever you want.

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Rolling guard is good in certain instances. But the problem is that I mainly use rolling for mobility and probably about 50% of the time i wait for the RG cool down to finish so i can use it when i actually need to.

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As much as this mod is a really cool idea, the long cooldown period means I'll be punished for using rolls for faster movement. I use rolls for speed and fighting with melee.

If it could have a shorter invulnerability period for a shorter cooldown, then it'd be nice to use on reaction. It'd probably make it more satisfying, in my opinion, to use short "i-frames" more frequently. Knowing you pulled off beautiful timing and quickly took advantage of that moment to strike has got to be the pinnacle of being a space ninja.

As it stands, I'd rather use my rolls consistently for damage reduction, enemy accuracy penalty, and gap closing.

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6 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

All 3 have one goal...providing protection, but which one is better? That's my thread

There is no one answer and theorycrafting won't help because everyone's frame choice and playstyle is different.

5 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

I use it like this

I roll when i'm about to fight group of enemies

I roll to get rid of status procs

I roll to protect myself from energy spike

It's situational i know...but it's very useful against high level enemies...or bosses

That style of play makes sense to me if the player had adopted a flatfooted playstyle to begin with.

Players who rely on movement and had adopted rolling as a means to absorb bigger strike would be driven crazy trying to play that way unless they were playing Limbo where rolls/dashes had to be thought of differently to begin with.

Of course, on Limbo the mod is practically perfect anyway.

6 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

And finally no one will ever waste 2 slots for 2 defensive mods...unless they're really afraid to die

Sure they would... It happens all the time for any number of reasons regardless of their "fear of death".

You probably do it yourself without realizing it on some frames.

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The reason why it’s not as good is that adaptation on frames it’s good on is giving you another multiples to your hp. It’s like how we build guns. Damage more shots Critical hits. From 100 damage to a mil. 

Adaptation is 5-10 times your ehp. That with rage (hunters adrenaline) and life strike. Your taking your insane ehp multiplying it by a bunch and also multiplying your healing by the same. 

 

If if you had an rpg hero with 1,000,000 hp who heals x 3-10 1,000,000 hp sec. or a hero with 100,000 hp who heals 100,00 x3-10 a sec but can be invaluable for 3 seconds every 7 who would you pick?

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Depending on your build and the situation. However, in most situations, you are fighting multiple enemies at the same time. You will get hit, a lot, no matter what you do. Adaption, with constant 90% damage reduction against most damage, is king. And you rarely every die from iteration anyway, you always die from sudden unexpected damage spike (usually paired with chain CC). 

I used to skeptical about adaption too, but with trial and error, it works best. That does not mean rolling guard is bad. It should work better in Eidolon Hunts and maybe some boss fights. But for everything else, adaption will work better.

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The problem with Rolling Guard is that rolling is just not a maneuver I use in my playstyle that much. I don't use Quick Thinking much either because most of my frames I actually play are very energy hungry. Adaptation + Vitality all the way.

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51 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Another blah blah blah post...

it's how most things go here

i mean it's called DISCUSSION for a reason

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It's one of my favorite mods, excellent on Revenant for Mesmer Skin recasts and Limbo. Tanking the Ropalysts death beam easy peasy is noice. Dark Souls mod for the win ❤️

Edited by (XB1)aMichealMeyers

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Rolling guard is for frames that cannot take a punch to build resistance with Adaptation or lack a damage reduction ability OR are both squishy, without DR ability AND with a low energy pool/casters that makes Quick Thinking also not as useful.
I use RG on Limbo for whenever I have to walk out of the rift or go through a nullifier in my way, Loki to recast invisibility, same deal for Ash.

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I like not having to roll literally all the time and play the game, focusing on gameplay and objectives other than "roll roll roll not die."

 

That's why Adaptation is better. Anything passive is superior to its active counterpart. We enjoy playing the game and not literally rolling like Grendel. But unlike Grendel, we won't be able to do anything while stuck in that animation. Rolling Guard doesn't make you think, it makes you think "I need to roll as much as possible." There's a clear difference.

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