Vandals, Primes, Wraiths (And Helmets) As Skins And How To Solve Some Issues

[Azamagon]

Yes, yes, this has been discussed to death before (it's about skins), but I'd like make some direct numerical suggestions about this too. Also, i have some ideas how to solve of the issues that will occur with all this (the formas/catalysts etc). Please read thoroughly! :)

 

VANDALS, PRIMES & WRAITHS

It has been suggested many times that Vandals/Primes/Wraiths should be skins that instead alter your weapons' stats. There should also be some (often minor) tradeoffs for using these skins, but in general they should be better than their original counterparts. This puts more emphasis on the whole "sidegrade"-style Warframe originally had, but still with a slight "powercreep/progession"-feeling kept. See it as a middle-ground of both mindsets!

 

Examples:

* Paris should have its charge-damage increased to 125 or so (from 100). Everything else should remain the same.

* Paris Prime skin should make the paris have its damage increased to its current 150, but at some cost. How about 0.1 slower charge speed and/or 0.1 slower reloadspeed? That'd make it a tradeoff. Trade a little bit of speed for quite a bit of power.

 

* Braton should stay as it is (20 damage, 11,25 shots/sec, 45 magazine-size etc)

* Braton Prime stays as it is (25 damage, 10 shots/sec) but reduces clipsize to only 35 or 40 (down from its current 50!). It would overall still be better than Braton, but with SOME form of tradeoff.

 

* Strun should have its critchance increased to the same as that of the Wraith (20%, from 7.5%), its magsize up to 8 (from 6) and reloadspeed reduced to 2.5 seconds or so (from 3).

* Strun Wraith is currently just too much of an improvement over the original. There is NO downside to it. I'd change the Wraith's stats to this: Increases the damage to 175 or so (down from its current 190), rate of fire to 2 (from 2.5), reloadspeed to 2 seconds (from 1.5). All that is STILL better than the base Strun. What would its negative part be then? I'd say, reduce the magsize to 7 (from its current 8). Not much of a downside, but hey, at least SOMETHING.

 

I'd also let the regular Snipetron be buyable again. (yes, I have it myself, I'm just not a proud greedy bastard, i want others to have a chance to get it too *gasp*). Just change the description of it to say it was an OLD weapon design that the Corpus Snipers used. Maybe give the Lanka a new model as well. Now for the stats:

* Snipetron's damage could go up to say 110 damage (from 100), reloadspeed down to 2 (from 3,8) seconds, magsize up to 5 (from 4)

* Then the Snipetron Vandal's skin would bring up the damage to its current 125 damage, the magsize up to its current 6, but at the cost of a slightly slower rate of fire (1.4, down from 1.5) and slightly slower reloadspeed (2.1 sec, down from 2)

This way, people with the Vandal would still have their powerful weapon (with very, very slighy nerfs), and newcomers can still get the regular Snipetron. Yeah, the SVandal would still not be acquireable (debattable of course, but i digress), but they can still get something that is KIND of similar to the SVandal.

(Looking at the Vulkar as a comparison, I'd increase its damage to 135 (from 125) reduce its reloadspeed to 3 seconds (down from 4) and increase its clipsize to 10 (from 4). That would make the Vulkar and Snipetron weapons feel very different from one another. The Vulkar is weaker due to being bullet-type, but still not too shabby with its highly increased magazine-size)

 

Etc for all the other Vandals/Primes/Wraiths...

That would be a good trait for all Vandals/Primes/Wraiths. Trade a little bit of something (like speed and magazine) for quite a bit more of something else (most often damage). The Boar Prime currently does the opposite (it loses direct damage), but the netgain of its other stats still makes it quite a lot better than the base Boar (as it should be, considering Primes are hard to acquire)

So yeah, that's how i think it all should be handled. It gives a feeling of sidegrades back, while at the same time (due to the tradeoffs of the skins often being very minor compared to their buffs) still gives those people that like powercreep / progression something to feel more powerful with!

 

Note: This skin-system is something that could happen to a lot of the longswords and daggers too! Read this thread for suggestions about that - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/89931-melee-tweaks/#entry997271

 

FORMAS AND OROKIN CATALYSTS THEN? AND MASTERY?

Of course, all of you who have invested catalysts and/or forma in your Vandals/Primes/Wraiths should be compensated for it.

Base weapon - If you don't own the original weapon (for example, you don't have the Braton, but you have the Braton Prime), you will get the Braton for free in the Prime/Vandal/Wraith's slot. But max one weapon (if you own, for example Braton Prime AND Braton Vandal)

Catalysts - Should simply just be refunded (You get back your Catalyst)

Forma - This could be done in optional ways - For each forma you have used in a weapon that gets changed into a skin you get the option to either

1) keep the forma

2) or to freely put the forma in your base weapon with the polarity of your choosing (no need to re-level up or anything!)

 

This means, for example:

1) You had the Braton Prime with a catalyst in it and used 3 forma in it. You do not own the regular Braton. The Braton Prime now turns into a skin as suggested in this thread.

2) You now get the regular Braton in the old weaponslot as compensation. You also now get the Braton Prime as a skin-option (which alters its stats like talked about above)

3) The Catalyst from the Prime is given back to you. The Braton you got (point 2) does not have a catalyst in it. This means you can choose to wether you wanna catalyst the Braton or not.

4) You can now, for each forma you spent in the old Braton Prime, choose what polarityslots in this new Braton you want, or if you wanna keep any of them. Maybe you choose to forma 2 slots to V-polarity (this can be chosen once and only once, but requires no levelling up etc. This is to compensate the time spent forma'ing your old Braton Prime). Then you can keep the 3rd forma if you want (or polarize it instantly too, it's your choice!).

5) Now what if you had a Braton Vandal as well with a catalyst and 1 forma in it? Well, the Braton you got (as mentioned in point 2) could ALSO use the Vandal's forma to instantly polarize it, or you could keep the forma as well. You would also get another catalyst of course. So, all "skins" contribute with their catalysts and formas to the base weapon!

6) What if you already had a regular Braton then? Well, you won't be given a new Braton, but the one you already have would be the subject of all the possible forma-changes as the one that would've been given to you for free (So, basicly the same ordeal)

 

What this all means in short: You will be thoroughly and properly compensated for the loss of time and resources spent in your Vandal/Prime/Wraith-weapon counterparts!

 

What about mastery points then?

Well that's easy: If a weapon you have gained mastery points from turns into a skin, you won't lose those mastery points. They are kept, but with a downside: They are "empty" mastery points that needs to be refilled by new mastery points from other weapon/warframe levelling. Thus you need to re-earn the "kept" points, but at least you might not lose your mastery RANK due to this.

 

ALTERNATE HELMETS

Now to the second part of this thread: Alternate helmets! This has been suggested before, and i'll suggest it again (because it is a nice system):

 

* When you acquire an alternate helmet, you get 2 things: The new helmet with its looks, and its "power" that changes your stats. The Helmet itself does nothing but change the looks of your character. The "power" does the stat-changes. Now you can mix and match looks with helmpowers as much as you want!

 

* There is one thing that is obvious; You can't equip the helmets of another Warframe (Like, putting an Excalibur helmet on Frost, it makes no sense). But, what about the POWERS? Should they be interchangable between the Warframes? For example, should the Loki's Essence-power be useable on Excalibur? That's up for debatte, but i guess for now, it would be better to not let the helmpowers be interchangeable between the Warframes.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Azamagon

[Shion963]

Sidegrades forever is ideal, but it's not doable. Leave Prime/event exclusives as it is. It'll probably cycle in a future event instead of endlessly making new weapon variations.

 

And future helmets won't have stats, so that's one thing off your problems list.

[Malikon]

I hate just saying no without giving a reason, but after all of the discussion, debates, arguements, and flame wars, I cannot be bothered to type it all again.  So....

 

Do.  Not.  Want.

[Kaian-a-coel]

Do. Want.

Do not alter the stats though. They're fine.

[Sophista]

I came here.

I've read thread carefully.

Downvote.

[Altey]

[Eidolon_Slayer]

If this happens, I will no longer treat any event exclusive special anymore, and I won't have a reason to care about future events. Therefore, no. Leave the exclusives alone. Other people don't need to have them.

 

"Oh you know that special item you got for participating beta? (When you needed codes to play the game) Now everyone can have it! Please enjoy my brown on your face!"

Edited September 26, 2013 by Mikovsky

[Azamagon]

*sigh* I get it, people are spoiled little kids and don't care about balance in the least....

 

@BlackJackD - Well yeah, i understand that there are too many threads about this issue, but i thought my ideas were too long to just be "another post"... At least i really tried to solve the catalyst/forma-issue in the most just way i could think of.

 

@Shion963 - Balance can be made if you put some effort into it (which DE clearly don't seem to want...). Besides, this isn't 100% sidegrades either. It's sort of sidegrades, but the overall benefit for the Vandal/Primes/Wraiths are still better, still giving a feeling of progression with these weapons.

 

@Malikon - Ok, there are a lot of these threads, so i can get your point. But what is it that makes you not wanting it? You don't lose much in this system. In fact, the Vandals/Primes/Wraiths only get tiny nerfs so you still feel stronger with them than their original counterparts. What's the issue? That you have less stuff to level up? Gee... how... horrible? >_>

 

@Kaian-a-coel - Well thanks for some positivity at least. Regardless, no, the stats should not be left as is. That's kinda the point of the thread too...

 

@PiotrGracz - I saw your comment. I read it thoroughly. Now explain why.

 

@Altey - Very funny *yawn*

 

@Mikovsky - Awww, you won't feel so schpecawl anymow? Waaah. Oh wait, did you even care to read that i did NOT mention anything about the exclusives being non-exclusive anymore? I said that's debattable (but NOT for this thread). The Vandals/Wraiths/Primes are merely turned into skins, given a slight nerf so there is at least ONE downside to them compared to their original counterparts (The Strun Wraith for example would still be much better overall than the regular Strun). And the only ones regularly obtainable by ANYONE are only the Primes. I did NOT speak of Vandals/Wraiths being buyable in the market or anything...

 

The ONLY weapon i mentioned was the Snipetron (the REGULAR one). What's so special about that one when you (maybe?) have the Vandal? If you saw the suggestions for them, the Vandal is still clearly superior.

 

And your silly little "thing" there in the end. Seriously, what has that got to do with this thread? At all? I'm not talking about making those "special unique wittwe items" that you insolent brats care so much about to be exclusive. I'm talking about making the V/P/W series into SKINS, and that they all have at least ONE tiny downside to them compared to the original weapons. Woo, even slight balancing is scary huh.

 

 

Yeesh, you people really sicken me...

[Eidolon_Slayer]

*sigh* I get it, people are spoiled little kids and don't care about balance in the least....

 

@BlackJackD - Well yeah, i understand that there are too many threads about this issue, but i thought my ideas were too long to just be "another post"... At least i really tried to solve the catalyst/forma-issue in the most just way i could think of.

 

@Shion963 - Balance can be made if you put some effort into it (which DE clearly don't seem to want...). Besides, this isn't 100% sidegrades either. It's sort of sidegrades, but the overall benefit for the Vandal/Primes/Wraiths are still better, still giving a feeling of progression with these weapons.

 

@Malikon - Ok, there are a lot of these threads, so i can get your point. But what is it that makes you not wanting it? You don't lose much in this system. In fact, the Vandals/Primes/Wraiths only get tiny nerfs so you still feel stronger with them than their original counterparts. What's the issue? That you have less stuff to level up? Gee... how... horrible? >_>

 

@Kaian-a-coel - Well thanks for some positivity at least. Regardless, no, the stats should not be left as is. That's kinda the point of the thread too...

 

@PiotrGracz - I saw your comment. I read it thoroughly. Now explain why.

 

@Altey - Very funny *yawn*

 

@Mikovsky - Awww, you won't feel so schpecawl anymow? Waaah. Oh wait, did you even care to read that i did NOT mention anything about the exclusives being non-exclusive anymore? I said that's debattable (but NOT for this thread). The Vandals/Wraiths/Primes are merely turned into skins, given a slight nerf so there is at least ONE downside to them compared to their original counterparts (The Strun Wraith for example would still be much better overall than the regular Strun). And the only ones regularly obtainable by ANYONE are only the Primes. I did NOT speak of Vandals/Wraiths being buyable in the market or anything...

 

The ONLY weapon i mentioned was the Snipetron (the REGULAR one). What's so special about that one when you (maybe?) have the Vandal? If you saw the suggestions for them, the Vandal is still clearly superior.

 

And your silly little "thing" there in the end. Seriously, what has that got to do with this thread? At all? I'm not talking about making those "special unique wittwe items" that you insolent brats care so much about to be exclusive. I'm talking about making the V/P/W series into SKINS, and that they all have at least ONE tiny downside to them compared to the original weapons. Woo, even slight balancing is scary huh.

 

 

Yeesh, you people really sicken me...

lol this guy.

 

Edited September 26, 2013 by Mikovsky

[asadati]

Please revive SNIPETRON &　SNIPETRON VANDAL

Edited September 26, 2013 by asadati

[Aliiias]

Apparently basic reading comprehension is an ability beyond the capabilities of the Warframe forum-goers. I wonder if it's because the game is F2P?

Regardless I like the idea. If it means that I don't have to level up and catalyst a Soma Prime when I've already got my regular Soma leveled and catalysted, why not? It only saves me time and money.

I don't necessarily agree with the statistical changes proposed, but really, that's besides the point.

[Zakalwe]

Yeesh, you people really sicken me...

People sicken you because they want exclusive items to remain exclusive? I think you need to abet a little perspective, dude.

I don't own the Snipetron or a.Vandal, I reset my account after cb and had a break for a while so missed out on both. Guess what, that's just tough on me. There are tonnes of other weapons and opportunities for future exclusives, and these items should remain exclusive so the events their attached to and the items themselves retain allure and remain something players can be proud of obtaining.

Proud of obtaining might seem a little silly for a virtual item, but these things are what make your character and account feel special and worth the effort you put in.

As for prime versions, well, perhaps there's something else that can be done. They are SUPPOSED to be upgrades, not side grades. If you own a weapon that gets primed, you should be able to convert it to a prime when you get the blueprint. You will lose the old weapon, but gain the prime plus all forma and catalyst.

Lore friendly, the process for building primes could easily require mastery of standard weapon, then the base components as a frame for the prime. Would resolve the issue of investment in Tenno weaponry pre-prime, and continue the upgrade tree. There is enough of a variety of higher end gear now to keep it interesting, too.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Zakalwe

[Aliiias]

I must have missed the memo, but apparently the theme of this thread is to pretend the OP said something he/she didn't actually say, but then go ahead and argue as if he/she actually said it?

 

I got it now. Let me give this a shot.

 

OP why do you want to all the players with exclusive items to be banned from the game forever? That's a very silly idea! Not to mention unfair!

[Zakalwe]

I must have missed the memo, but apparently the theme of this thread is to pretend the OP said something he/she didn't actually say, but then go ahead and argue as if he/she actually said it?

 

I got it now. Let me give this a shot.

 

OP why do you want to all the players with exclusive items to be banned from the game forever? That's a very silly idea! Not to mention unfair!

No, the OP wants them to be nerfed so they don't retain the same kind of value.

 Being a skin or sidegrade isn't enough, they should also be more powerful than their standard counterparts by enough of a degree that they retain their allure and exclusive feel. Bringing them down as the OP suggests to balance early game gear isn't required, early game gear /should/ be less powerful. 

Op wants to remove an aspect that makes obtaining these weapons so appealing, the clear power divide. And this isn't an issue due to the fact there are lots of weapons available for those who missed the exclusive that equal or overpower them, and more will be added in future.

 

It's good to have diversity, but also tiers to make progression feel like you're advancing. Power creep won't be an issue as long as they don't keep piling tiers on top of what we have now.

 

Standard Weapons

Prime versions/Event exclusive

Clan Tech

Make the options /within/ these brackets sidegrades of each other, balance these items against equal content, and keep the idea of items becoming more powerful as you progress. 

 

Absolute balance would be boring.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Zakalwe

[Azamagon]

lol this guy.

 

 

Eh, hehe, i don't know how to react to that xD

 

Please revive SNIPETRON &　SNIPETRON VANDAL

 

*sigh*

Rule #1 - Read at the very least the initial post before you comment in a thread -.-

 

Apparently basic reading comprehension is an ability beyond the capabilities of the Warframe forum-goers. I wonder if it's because the game is F2P?

Regardless I like the idea. If it means that I don't have to level up and catalyst a Soma Prime when I've already got my regular Soma leveled and catalysted, why not? It only saves me time and money.

I don't necessarily agree with the statistical changes proposed, but really, that's besides the point.

 

Thank you! Someone that can read!

Maybe i should add to the initial post that the main point of this thread is to remove the "Prime Paranoia" as someone else called it? That fear that if you catalyst/forma an item, what if a much better weapon appears in the future, making the catalyst/forma a waste of time and resources.

 

People sicken you because they want exclusive items to remain exclusive? I think you need to abet a little perspective, dude.

I don't own the Snipetron or a.Vandal, I reset my account after cb and had a break for a while so missed out on both. Guess what, that's just tough on me. There are tonnes of other weapons and opportunities for future exclusives, and these items should remain exclusive so the events their attached to and the items themselves retain allure and remain something players can be proud of obtaining.

Proud of obtaining might seem a little silly for a virtual item, but these things are what make your character and account feel special and worth the effort you put in.

As for prime versions, well, perhaps there's something else that can be done. They are SUPPOSED to be upgrades, not side grades. If you own a weapon that gets primed, you should be able to convert it to a prime when you get the blueprint. You will lose the old weapon, but gain the prime plus all forma and catalyst.

Lore friendly, the process for building primes could easily require mastery of standard weapon, then the base components as a frame for the prime. Would resolve the issue of investment in Tenno weaponry pre-prime, and continue the upgrade tree. There is enough of a variety of higher end gear now to keep it interesting, too.

 

ANOTHER one that can't read...

If you read the whole thing you would notice:

* Primes/Vandals/Wraiths would STILL overall be much better than their original counterparts and thus still feel very powerful/exclusive.

* I'm not asking for absolute balance, but I'm suggesting at least some MINOR balancing points so they have pseudo-sidegrade-feelings to them. But overall they are STILL better.

* Convertions etc are more complicated, and that also possibly takes away your ORIGINAL weapon. What if you like its basic looks? Thus my initial post in the first place... Hello?

 

I must have missed the memo, but apparently the theme of this thread is to pretend the OP said something he/she didn't actually say, but then go ahead and argue as if he/she actually said it?

 

I got it now. Let me give this a shot.

 

OP why do you want to all the players with exclusive items to be banned from the game forever? That's a very silly idea! Not to mention unfair!

 

Lol. That's probably the price i pay for making very long threads. People's attentionspans these days :P

 

No, the OP wants them to be nerfed so they don't retain the same kind of value.

 Being a skin or sidegrade isn't enough, they should also be more powerful than their standard counterparts by enough of a degree that they retain their allure and exclusive feel. Bringing them down as the OP suggests to balance early game gear isn't required, early game gear /should/ be less powerful. 

Op wants to remove an aspect that makes obtaining these weapons so appealing, the clear power divide. And this isn't an issue due to the fact there are lots of weapons available for those who missed the exclusive that equal or overpower them, and more will be added in future.

 

It's good to have diversity, but also tiers to make progression feel like you're advancing. Power creep won't be an issue as long as they don't keep piling tiers on top of what we have now.

 

Standard Weapons

Prime versions/Event exclusive

Clan Tech

Make the options /within/ these brackets sidegrades of each other, balance these items against equal content, and keep the idea of items becoming more powerful as you progress. 

 

Absolute balance would be boring.

HELLO? They ARE still more powerful overall than their original counterparts! There IS already some sidegradeyness in some of the Prime weapons (The Braton Prime and Boar Prime are good examples). I just wanted to make those attributes SLIGHTLY more prelevant. But not so much that the weapons feel underwhelming or anything. You would still want to use your P/V/W-versions more, i can most certainly guarantee that.

 

And stop saying that "OP wants this and that". You really don't know what i want...

 

[Nobbins]

In contrast the majority of other posters, I completely support this idea. Potato'd Orthos, still don't want to burn an extra potato on Orthos Prime and such. Plus, the system for dealing with already potato'd and forma'd weapons seems quite nice.

[Hominghead]

I think it is a good idea.

 

Anybody disagreeing is just an angry loud minority.

 

Getting forever flooded with copy-pastes of same weapons and neglecting the skin system is not a good way out.

 

Also: After so many Melee weapons, we can't have Dagger Axe skin just restricted to Scindo, when Scindo is already outclassed by many other weapons and not used widely anymore.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Hominghead

[Aishi]

Exclusive weapon -> exclusive skin

Whoopty ****ing doo.

I don't understand what people aren't getting.

[Malikon]

Sigh, this again.  Fine, here goes.

 

This isnt about exclusives or even the prime weapons.  Hell, this isnt about the weapons themselves at all.  It's about laziness and a lack of forethought.

 

This is the "buyer's regret" arguement surfacing again.  You want to not have to "waste" your time, formas, and potatoes but want the benefits of another weapon over your current one.  This is exactly why I disagree.  Will it make it easier for everyone?  Sure it would, and it would make it so that you never have to "waste" another expendable upgrade item ever again getting this or that prime/vandal/wraith. 

 

What about my potatoed Braton, Braton Vandal and Braton prime?  Nope!  My potatoed Braton with 2 skins and 2 potatoes and all the formas for Braton Prime and Braton Vandal returned to me.  No thank you.   I knew what I wanted when I spent those formas and potatoes.  I accept that I knowingly and willingly used my expendable upgrade items, and I will deal with the consequences of those actions.   If you cannot control your impulse urges to blow your forma and taters on every weapon coming and going, you need to be responsible for that.  If you choose wisely and have even a modicum of patience, you'll find that catalysts/formas are relatively easy to come by for free or cheap.

 

This isn't an idea that serves a purpose other than to feed laziness and reduce the remorse of people who are a little too loose with the "SPEND FORMA/CATALYST" button.

[Azamagon]

Sigh, this again.  Fine, here goes.

 

This isnt about exclusives or even the prime weapons.  Hell, this isnt about the weapons themselves at all.  It's about laziness and a lack of forethought.

 

This is the "buyer's regret" arguement surfacing again.  You want to not have to "waste" your time, formas, and potatoes but want the benefits of another weapon over your current one.  This is exactly why I disagree.  Will it make it easier for everyone?  Sure it would, and it would make it so that you never have to "waste" another expendable upgrade item ever again getting this or that prime/vandal/wraith. 

 

What about my potatoed Braton, Braton Vandal and Braton prime?  Nope!  My potatoed Braton with 2 skins and 2 potatoes and all the formas for Braton Prime and Braton Vandal returned to me.  No thank you.   I knew what I wanted when I spent those formas and potatoes.  I accept that I knowingly and willingly used my expendable upgrade items, and I will deal with the consequences of those actions.   If you cannot control your impulse urges to blow your forma and taters on every weapon coming and going, you need to be responsible for that.  If you choose wisely and have even a modicum of patience, you'll find that catalysts/formas are relatively easy to come by for free or cheap.

 

This isn't an idea that serves a purpose other than to feed laziness and reduce the remorse of people who are a little too loose with the "SPEND FORMA/CATALYST" button.

 

Well I'm glad YOU feel that you don't have to care about YOUR money or time in this game. But sorry, this is not only about you. This is about trying to help the MAJORITY of players...

 

Personally, I would feel bad wasting time on a weapon if i forma it, as I don't wanna forma a weapon just to see it become replaced by something way better in the future. Thus, i have been wise enough to actually NEVER forma a single weapon or warframe yet. I might do it later when i already have levelled up all existing weapons... maybe. I bet some, or even a LOT of people, feel similar to how i feel.

 

As i don't have much problems with money though, potato'ing is not an issue for me. I never PERSONALLY regret potato'ing any of my items. But it might be for others.

 

You even said it yourself: "Will it make it easier for everyone?  Sure it would, and it would make it so that you never have to "waste" another expendable upgrade item ever again getting this or that prime/vandal/wraith." Ouch? So you really don't care about other people's feelings, time or money spent in this game? Or that the current system we have right now is completely counterintuitive?

 

Well then, then I'm terribly sorry for trying to make potato'ing and forma'ing into intuitive systems of Warframe, for trying not to waste people's Warframe playing time, or for trying to make a system which causes people to feel like they are not completely wasting their money.

[Malikon]

YOU are the only one I see trying to call me out and make me feel bad for suggesting that with even the smallest amount of self-control, the issues you're trying so hard to address wouldn't exist.  I gave you specific reasons why it's a bad idea and doesnt fit with the way the forma/tater system works, and you respond by trying to mount a  campaign on behalf of "other players who might be downtrodden"?  I even offered a solution, but not one that a lazy player would approve of.  You gave nothing except pointed fingers and veiled character insults.  This leads me to believe that YOU feel "burned" by some expenditure or another and have no logical arguements to put into play.

 

You didnt even bother trying to dispute that it's all about being lazy and loose with your resources, and you dont seem to comprehend that you're asking for 1 tater and X formas (X based on the needs of that particular weapon) to cover a base weapon and every other weapon in that particular upgrade path.  To a reasonable person, that sounds absolutely ludicrous as it trivializes the idea of upgrading your weapons and no amount of trying to make me feel bad instead of providing counter-points or points of compromise will change that. 

 

Now, if you're quite finished with this sympathy grab and passive-aggressive demonization of the folks that disagree with you, you'll find that many if not all of the "others" are out putting in that time and effort for their forma'd and tatered weapons upgrades. Maybe you should follow suit or at least bring some logic arguements to the table instead of a half-assed bleeding heart.

 

Edit:  I read through some of your other responses on other topics, and in most of those you've provided fairly thoughtful points/counter-points and havent resorted to the sort of behavior I've seen from you in this thread.  What makes this thread seem so personal to you?

Edited October 5, 2013 by Malikon

[RX-74]

* Braton should stay as it is (20 damage, 11,25 shots/sec, 45 magazine-size etc)

* Braton Prime stays as it is (25 damage, 10 shots/sec) but reduces clipsize to only 35 or 40 (down from its current 50!). It would overall still be better than Braton, but with SOME form of tradeoff.

 

Primes should be better than the regular weapon and they should have no tradeoffs.

 

Primes should NOT be skins that you slap on the regular weapon. Prime blueprints and parts should be farmed from different bosses i.e. it should take some effort to get a Prime.

 

Reducing the clipsize of the Braton Prime would not make it a desireable weapon to own and I think that the clipsize should remain at it's current 50 rounds.

 

I would even say that the RoF of the Braton Prime should be increased to 12.5.

Edited October 5, 2013 by RX-74

[Altey]

Exclusives MUST NOT be skins too.You think we all was playing on events to get a skin for weapon that we even didint have?NO NO NO NO NO.

[Amistyrja]

Nah. People like waving their Strun Wraiths and Snipetron Vandals in front of newbies and sneering. Take away someone's toy and you get endless whining, so no. About the alternate helmets, DE seems to prefer to think that just making every new helmet statless will solve the problem. Good idea, but good luck convincing DE to care.

[Lumdalumlum]

So.. the problems comes in with skin when... a player don't have the original weapon. So even if he won or obtain the prime/whatever-special skin it would still be useless to him.