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What if riven mods act like duplicate mod?

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I believe you guys know that you can't put 2 mods with the same name (cryo rounds with primed cryo rounds, cryo rounds with cryo rounds, etc).

And one problem that I see from people complaints is that the power creep where you can stack mods so you can stack as much damage, critical chance, critical damage, status, etc.

What crossed my thought is, what if riven mods act as their own mod? For example, if you get this riven with +damage, +critical chance, +critical damage, it acts as "3 mods in 1 package" so you can no longer stack Serration, Point Strike and Vital Sense since said riven mod technically has those mods already

Will this be a positive change to diversify the mod build? Or a negative?

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Ehhhhh.....
Naaaaaa....
IMHO modular weapons are the real power creep in this game.

Edited by Carnage2K4
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It would work on weapons with neutral disposition or higher (2 positives with no negatives are almost the same as their regular counterparts stat wise on neutral weapons) . 

Anything with less than neutral disposition these will only be useful for utility purpose. 

 

 

Actually that is a pretty good idea.

Gonna make a lot of riven users salty though.

But would be an excellent balancing mechanism (will likely need to boost the disposition multiplier slightly) according to me. 

 

P. S. Assuming you can still counter the negative values on the roll? I don't want a negative reload speed riven if I can't add a reload speed mod to counter it a bit. 

Edited by 0_The_F00l
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Has the potential to be positive. Also has the potential to make people cry.

I once proposed that multiple mods of the same type should be mutually exclusive, with buffs given to the more niche ones.

I.e. can't use Argon Scope and Point Strike together, but make Argon Scope better than Point Strike.

You get a choice between a lower passive increase, or a higher increase that requires a bit of effort.

This sort of thing should, if ever, come with a full scale rework however.

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Sounds good except it will hurt weapon that's still subpar with a riven even more.

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I would welcome this change. The only way to make Rivens at least bearable. I stand behind this idea, because stat stacking produces more harm than good in every aspect of the game.

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For one that would be pretty darn complicated both for the players to work with and for DE to implement. 

For two it would likely be DEs, "Hearthstone moment" where a pretty massive chunk of their playerbase (at least the people who have invested pretty much any effort into rivens and who are not possessed of a preexisting seethingly irrational hatred of them) just says "%@#%^ you, bye" 

If they had come out of the gate denying stacking like effects then it would be one thing butt since that isn't the direction they went with the game, this sort of change is one of those things I honestly don't think Warframe would recover from. 

 

Plus how even would Dual stat mods work under such a system? you would only ever be able to choose one because they would be mutually exclusive based on the fact that they all have a "60% status chance" bonus. 

Edited by Oreades
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negative impact on diversity of the build, we can simply wipe them out but don't think it will fix power creep 

a complete damage overhaul longside enemy scaling would be better in long term 

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each riven is considered the same mod but with differnt stats
thus it would act like heated charge an prime heated charge.
you cant have 2 of the same mod on

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Not a bad idea, but unlikely to happen with DE's current outlook on game balance. If they ever end up deciding to nerf everything into the ground and actually rework mods they I could see them doing it, but as it stands right now there's no chance in hell. Power creep is profit.

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I had thought about this in regards to regular mods such as preventing the use of both Thermite Round and Hellfire together with a pass on their stats to close the gap, especially with Warframe mods. However, mods that have multiple stats, particularly Nightmare mods got thinking about how to handle them without tipping the scales in either way. Constitution and Drift mods would definitely need a lot of help in this scenario. One thing I thought of is that multiple mods on the same stats give diminishing returns to give people the choice of stacking and to cut down the runaway train scenario.

Rivens are a much deeper case because of the fluctuating stats and the random element. They also exist outside of the normal game so trying to really control would be pretty difficult without incorporating them into the game's progression. One particular issue I see with this, outside of the stat problem where you can completely gimp yourself with a low disposition weapon, is that the potential 2 or 3 slot convenience would be extremely powerful resulting in a same problem different cause. The potential end result would be that you have to implement some form of restriction to modding entirely or people would just take that 10% damage, 10% multishot and 10% critical hit to fit in 2 more elemental mods.

  1. To prevent the lower disposition Rivens with mediocre rolls from being horrible, you would need to rebalance the stat and the dispositions so that they are at least in line with Serration, Split Chamber, etc. If you don't do this, anything less than a good roll would become quite weak.
  2. Now that Rivens are comparable to regular mods but are potentially 3 mods in a single slot, you give good Rivens a very significant advantage that may be horrible for the game as a whole. This might lead to people actually building to make up whatever lost damage with more Critical or Elemental mods, resulting in more damage.
  3. You now have to place in some level of restriction to prevent people from using the extra slots to get more damage again and potentially do a massive pass through on all existing mods.

Without any form of restrictions, we would just end up in the same situation where good Rivens are ridiculously strong because they free up space without penalizing stats, allowing you to build more damage. The main difference is that now bad rolls with low stats can end up as a massive penalty by cutting your damage by half while only offering you a utility stat.

Edited by RX-3DR

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1 hour ago, 844448 said:

I believe you guys know that you can't put 2 mods with the same name (cryo rounds with primed cryo rounds, cryo rounds with cryo rounds, etc).

And one problem that I see from people complaints is that the power creep where you can stack mods so you can stack as much damage, critical chance, critical damage, status, etc.

What crossed my thought is, what if riven mods act as their own mod? For example, if you get this riven with +damage, +critical chance, +critical damage, it acts as "3 mods in 1 package" so you can no longer stack Serration, Point Strike and Vital Sense since said riven mod technically has those mods already

Will this be a positive change to diversify the mod build? Or a negative?

Dig it but it would make some people cry so much that climate change activists would instantly put melting ice-bergs on second place and the amount of salt would inflate the market and destabilize entire economies. Jokes aside, I like the idea but with the current idea of balance that DE has I think it's safe to assume what you propose will never happen.

Edited by Olphalarepth

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14 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Not a bad idea, but unlikely to happen with DE's current outlook on game balance. If they ever end up deciding to nerf everything into the ground and actually rework mods they I could see them doing it, but as it stands right now there's no chance in hell. Power creep is profit.

 

13 hours ago, Olphalarepth said:

Dig it but it would make some people cry so much that climate change activists would instantly put melting ice-bergs on second place and the amount of salt would inflate the market and destabilize entire economies. Jokes aside, I like the idea but with the current idea of balance that DE has I think it's safe to assume what you propose will never happen.

Because apparently some of those who want challenge also happen to be hypocrites that can't accept if DE take the decision to put a limit or nerf and complain  "DE don't respect player's effort and investment".

Look at riven mod disposition change, apparently it's a massive crime that makes Holocaust look like a joke

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Most rivens would be useless if this change was implemented outside weapons with very high dispositions.  They would be more utility then anything.  Like if I had a riven with +100% CC on it for a rifle or pistol odds are I'm not going to shelve point strike or primed pistol gambit for it no matter what the other 1-2 stats are. 

DE is not likely to implement something like this either.  Just pisses off a lot of people.  I wouldn't care much because I don't have much stock in rivens at this point despite owning 90 or so.  

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it's a bit too late to really do that. I think at best the only way to really balance that would be like. it'll always cancel out the main damage mod (like serration or hornet strike. Or the only other thing i can think of for a Riven since they're ever changing is just...don't give em a polarity. But thta also would have people freaking out. really anything that isn't actual powercreep at this point would have people freak out.

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On 2019-10-11 at 7:11 PM, Oreades said:

Plus how even would Dual stat mods work under such a system? you would only ever be able to choose one because they would be mutually exclusive based on the fact that they all have a "60% status chance" bonus. 

A bit of clarification, riven mods apparently work as multiple base mods into one so dual stat mods don't get affected.

You still can add rime rounds if the riven has cold because the cold riven is cryo rounds where "60% status chance" is considered as different mods.

Still need more consideration for that

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On 2019-10-11 at 5:11 AM, Oreades said:

Plus how even would Dual stat mods work under such a system? you would only ever be able to choose one because they would be mutually exclusive based on the fact that they all have a "60% status chance" bonus. 

Exactly.  If they were to count Riven stats as "duplicate" mods, especially with 2 or 3 different stats, then ALL mods with duplicate stats would have to count. So you could only use 1 mod with multishot, 1 mod with status chance,  1 mod with critical damage/chance and so forth. 

 

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9 minutes ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

Exactly.  If they were to count Riven stats as "duplicate" mods, especially with 2 or 3 different stats, then ALL mods with duplicate stats would have to count.

Not really. 

It works like this, Rivens have a set list of mods that they pull from. Serration, Split Chamber, Fast Hands etc. You can see this to some extent in the images that cycle on the Riven. 

They are, essentially, duplicating the effect of these specific mods.

They don't however pull from Dual Stat mods like High Voltage or Thermite Rounds.

Even if a Rifle Riven has +60% Fire and +60% Status you'd be able to use Thermite Rounds, because it's duplicating Hellfire and Rifle Amplitude (and obviously tweaking the stats of it).

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1 hour ago, DeMonkey said:

Not really. 

It works like this, Rivens have a set list of mods that they pull from. Serration, Split Chamber, Fast Hands etc. You can see this to some extent in the images that cycle on the Riven. 

They are, essentially, duplicating the effect of these specific mods.

They don't however pull from Dual Stat mods like High Voltage or Thermite Rounds.

Even if a Rifle Riven has +60% Fire and +60% Status you'd be able to use Thermite Rounds, because it's duplicating Hellfire and Rifle Amplitude (and obviously tweaking the stats of it).

I'm just saying if they block 1 mod, like rifle riven with damage and multishot from being used with serration or split chamber, make it equal for all mods. You can't use 2 mods that include the same effect. Thermite rounds and rime rounds would not be usable together because of status chance on both. Hellfire and rime rounds would be ok.

Rifle Riven with heat and stats would be different from thermite rounds??? Or that would be banned from being paired with thermite rounds because of heat? But riven with fire rate and status chance can stacked with other status chance AND fire mods??? That would not be a uniformed system. Why ban riven damage, multishot and reload speed from stacking on serration, split chamber and fast hands? But riven status chance and thermite rounds (dual stat mod) are ok? 

Again, that's not a uniformed system

Like what about amalgam serration (dual stat mod) + rifle riven with damage stat?

Rivens are already unnecessary. Why be bothered by the way they work?

This proposed system is just a vague way to nerf rivens. Yet seems to keep rivens valuable and desired if not more so. Especially for the rivens of weapons with disposition that can reach higher numbers than primed mods.

If the rifle riven has fire rate and status chance only, then you can't use any other mods that include fire rate or status chance. That's all

It would only be fair.

Edited by (XB1)Phantom Clip

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Am 11.10.2019 um 13:34 schrieb 844448:

I believe you guys know that you can't put 2 mods with the same name (cryo rounds with primed cryo rounds, cryo rounds with cryo rounds, etc).

And one problem that I see from people complaints is that the power creep where you can stack mods so you can stack as much damage, critical chance, critical damage, status, etc.

What crossed my thought is, what if riven mods act as their own mod? For example, if you get this riven with +damage, +critical chance, +critical damage, it acts as "3 mods in 1 package" so you can no longer stack Serration, Point Strike and Vital Sense since said riven mod technically has those mods already

Will this be a positive change to diversify the mod build? Or a negative?

That's stupid and destroys the whole point of rivens

 

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9 minutes ago, C104 said:

That's stupid and destroys the whole point of rivens

 

There are no points in riven right now. At least this will make modding interesting by eliminating at least 3 mods(serration, crits, multishot or crit dmg) and add more variations that riven originally promised.

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10 minutes ago, Nocontents said:

There are no points in riven right now. At least this will make modding interesting by eliminating at least 3 mods(serration, crits, multishot or crit dmg) and add more variations that riven originally promised.

Why does the game have to force limit everyone else?  You can personally choose to not use certain mods if you have riven with those stats. 

 

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vor 17 Minuten schrieb Nocontents:

There are no points in riven right now. At least this will make modding interesting by eliminating at least 3 mods(serration, crits, multishot or crit dmg) and add more variations that riven originally promised.

There is a big point in riven for high lv missions because without I would be #*!%ed from 90min onward

 

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Am 11.10.2019 um 13:36 schrieb Carnage2K4:

Ehhhhh.....
Naaaaaa....
IMHO modular weapons are the real power creep in this game.

Nah there are a lot of good weapons when you know what to do

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