How to improve warframe without adding new content

[Party_Rocker]

Well i would like to start off with thank you for taking the time to read this. Well content is something many people think that is what warframe needs to keep people in. Like new stuff new warframes new gears new open worlds. But why not take the time to look inwards and take a second look at what is already around us. Warframe is a power fantasy where you feel powerful in everyway but at mr 15 do you really feel powerful? Or you just feel like hey i can shoot the same enemies and kill them much quicker? Now lets go to mr20 which is practically semi end game territory. this is when you mastered enough weapons and warframes to say hey i have a warframe i can use for the forseable future. And you fight the same enemies with a fully moded primary secondary and melee and a fully stocked formad warframe. But here is where the grind becomes the grind. The enemies are 1 shot killable which where its arguable thats because its power fantasy material.

But it doesn't make you feel powerful why do some players say when they reach mr22 - 25 ask why is there no content? But there are a lot to do though i would say but because most of the missions in different planets are usually just hey i have to go here because of sorties or something else like an alert and now the invasions. So there is no real point of going there to fight the same enemies because why warframe gets boring at mr 20 - 27 or higher is because every enemy is a charger whatever they are they are a charger. They run at you with the idea to melee you what ever they are a nox melee you corpus crewman they melee you regardless of being disarmed. enemy deploys a shield then runs in front of the shield so you can hit him. And those enemies that pass the shield that the enemy placed they just pass it so they can melee the warframe. they can shoot from cover but after 2 seconds they will run at the warfrmae so they can smack the warframe with a gun because. It doesn't feel powerful anymore because the enemies are stupid jumping from one ledge over and over again because they bugged out so many enemies in a corridor all swarm on you like you guessed it like chargers. What im getting at is improve the ai because shooting stupid helpless enemies doesn't make me feel powerful at all. It just makes me wish there is a way for warframe to test my skill like i am forced to headshot them because i need to dispatch them quickly because they are a threat. I would enjoy fighting clone troopers than fighting stupid storm troopers anyday. Which in turn makes me feel powerful fighting enemies that are threatening. And making quick work on their squad like the lotus in missions tell you a squad of grineer marines are coming your way. Me right now who cares If the squad employed squad tactics, like preparing in a corridor behind cover like the military faction that they are. Hey let me put my skills to the test lets see if this squad is better than the last one i fought. Nope not gonna happen coz they are just gonna rush me and hit me with their gun because they are chargers. The infested are understandable with their ai but the ones with guns like the sniper weilding ones wow they are using a sniper rifle but they still walk up to you like idiots then takes aim almost at swords length at you.

I just wish that before any content comes along please make the enemies smarter improve the quality of the game with those instead of new pretty stuff. Warframe is a great game comparable to a lot of premium games even its granddad borderlands. But i would rather have quality of life improvments like better ai improved enemies rather than just being a power fantasy beating on disabled clones for funsies. We dont need bullet sponges we need enemies that feel like they are smarter than us because here's the thing about games that are hard you try more to beat it even if it cannot be beaten. Like flappy bird why was it addicting because failure makes people who play games try harder. Which would be great content if applied to warframe mr 1-15 is a training ground for that type of content and when you reach mr20 i can fight. MR21-25 hmm how can i master being a space ninja. Well thats my thought in regards with maybe improving the game without content Well if you got this far thank you for reading have a nice day.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Party_Rocker

[(PSN)de_sch0sch]

 Sounds like you'd want to play a different game. What you describe fits Division quite well. Warframe is Dynasty Warriors in space and with guns.

[Party_Rocker]

2 hours ago, (PS4)de_sch0sch said:

 Sounds like you'd want to play a different game. What you describe fits Division quite well. Warframe is Dynasty Warriors in space and with guns.

im asking for the enemies to do tactics stuff and to be a little bit smarter in a way not the warframe. which actually would work in a power fantasy setting because you are infinitetly stronger than them in every way. and so it can be dynasty warriors with guns but not the division that you have unrestricted movement?

Edited October 11, 2019 by Party_Rocker

[Alzyheimer]

7 hours ago, Party_Rocker said:

What im getting at is improve the ai because shooting stupid helpless enemies doesn't make me feel powerful at all.

I agree. Just imagine enemies ACTUALLY using covers, team tactics, maybe some utilities, maybe the corpus footmen retreating into the nullifier bubbles etc. Calling them stormtroopers is a praise.

6 hours ago, (PS4)de_sch0sch said:

Sounds like you'd want to play a different game. What you describe fits Division quite well. Warframe is Dynasty Warriors in space and with guns.

I get that, but it really wouldn't hurt the game now would it?

[Avienas]

9 hours ago, (PS4)de_sch0sch said:

 Sounds like you'd want to play a different game. What you describe fits Division quite well. Warframe is Dynasty Warriors in space and with guns.

Warframe is not exactly a Dynasty Warrior type game cause we are not cleaving thru thousands of grunts who do absolutely nothing and our character choice means little, least based on how i remembered when i played Dynasty warriors back on the PS2 era which was the 4th one or something if i recall? Way before that series devolved into utter garbage at the very least, Anyway Warframe still has a good deal of customization and other elements, but its just turned into D.E. resting on thar arses for a bit too long on improving on the base game, then what they have stretched so far on improvements.

                  Plenty of elements have changed in warframe but if we go thru alot of details, quite a bit has not really changed on some ends and despite things like Void key system being replaced by Relic system, its honestly did not change that much except so-called Quality of life improvements, but added more tedious-ness to it. A good long-term game usually has to have some major details to make them stand out so long that prevented them just blending in with other garbage games that usually get filtered into things like generic PvP title, generic MOBA, generic `battle royale`, generic WoW rip off, generic shooter, etc. Warframe has its own charms but it honestly feels like they have not did much on evolving it, where people could pretty much master game play absurdly early on and its just a matter of getting a large resource pool going and waiting for them to bake in the oven to get more `options`, which most are usually just mastery fodder and that bunch of `trash` has gotten copied over so many times that it makes me wish warframe could stop introducing new weapons with every major update/warframe release, so they can use the effort instead on changing up older weapons to make them stand out better and give more reasons to keep all sorts of weaponry, instead of scrapping it soon as its maxed out.

Heck might as well use BORDERLANDS 3 as a example, where early on i will likely check thru each weapon i pick up that has better `power` then the equipment i am currenty using to decide if i want to use them or not, which can easily get decided by how the gun functions, kind of like how one would usually not shoot with Tediore guns and instead constantly chuck them like bombs or even turrets or if one wants to use guns with hammer fanning style or raw damage per shot, without much care for elements, you would use Jakobs guns in Borderlands 3. 

TL;DR: Warframe does have its unique`ness but it seriously needs to stop trying to repaint its design to cover up its age, with just simple content drops after a long wait and actually redo the exterior of the wall itself so its quality is much better then just being a painted over, 10~ yearish old, dated, wall.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Avienas

[DOOMPATRIOT]

Even though we been saying that for the last 2 years I don't see DE doing this , they are too lazy to fix/ improve anything except maybe Warframes, but as this game is Easy af it really doesn't matter what frame you are using, and even less if it is good or bad (this comes as a Nyx main that have done  +4hrs in Mot SOLO), remember the Wolf of Saturn?, half of the communnity *@##$ about "Oh it is super hard, pls nerf" and DE nerf it, it ain't the Comunnity false, but DE that allows this sh@t- changes.

Don't get me wrong I really would love all of this to happen but this past 2 years have been a spit to the face to anyone with +200 hrs, so... Yeah.

Also remember that they don't listen to feedback anymore ( example: Arbitrations "Revisited").

[Alzyheimer]

25 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Plenty of elements have changed in warframe but if we go thru alot of details, quite a bit has not really changed on some ends and despite things like Void key system being replaced by Relic system, its honestly did not change that much except so-called Quality of life improvements, but added more tedious-ness to it.

They're broken, unrewarding and tedious, They changed a lot, no longer can you get 1 key and focus on surviving that mission as long as possible to get the max amount of rewards, the survival mission literally pauses your game, stops you from playing to pick rewards, and when you open 15 radiant relics in a row, getting nothing but bronze rewards, it really hits you in the guts.

28 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Warframe has its own charms but it honestly feels like they have not did much on evolving it, where people could pretty much master game play absurdly early on and its just a matter of getting a large resource pool going and waiting for them to bake in the oven to get more `options`, which most are usually just mastery fodder and that bunch of `trash` has gotten copied over so many times that it makes me wish warframe could stop introducing new weapons with every major update/warframe release, so they can use the effort instead on changing up older weapons to make them stand out better and give more reasons to keep all sorts of weaponry, instead of scrapping it soon as its maxed out.

Wish they went what theyre going for with "kuva weapons" to be the core of the gameplay instead of having 500 different types of resources to manage, waiting 12 hours to get the weapon and in the end scrapping it beacuse you can't use it effectively enough in high level missions. Imagine after finishing a mission you get a gun from it with random generated stats. Loot would be exciting and I would go into missions beacuse I want to, not beacuse I need to. Hell imagine if they didnt showcase the weapons in devstream and in the update it would say something like "there are 2 new weapons in the game, can you find them?"

 

13 minutes ago, DOOMPATRIOT said:

Even though we been saying that for the last 2 years I don't see DE doing this , they are too lazy to fix/ improve anything except maybe Warframes, but as this game is Easy af it really doesn't matter what frame you are using, and even less if it is good or bad (this comes as a Nyx main that have done  +4hrs in Mot SOLO), remember the Wolf of Saturn?, half of the communnity *@##$ about "Oh it is super hard, pls nerf" and DE nerf it, it ain't the Comunnity false, but DE that allows this sh@t- changes

The Wolf was a massive bullet sponge and was just not fun to play against. But I agree on your point though. Plus we had to do it like 300 times to get all the wolf sledge parts, which was a pain in itself.

[AndouRaiton]

4 hours ago, Alzyheimer said:

maybe the corpus footmen retreating into the nullifier bubbles

they already do this one, atleast from what i've observed. Same with ranged grineer hiding behind shield grineer.

The problem is that there is no point giving enemies tactics like that as we kill everything in a group easily.

Better tactics the enemies could use would be decoys (enemies running one way whilst a group runs another), flanking the warframe, luring the warframe into traps, that sort of thing.

Again won't work too well as all enemies die way too quickly and so would only be interesting for the minuscule amount of players that do +1hour survival runs missions on Mot.

Further, nerfing player damage or increase enemy tankiness is not the answer to solve enemies dying so quickly. What is it then? Simple, more enemy healers (varying types not just a dr/healing aura the ancients have) as well as letting certain enemies be revived by other enemies.

They actually showed what this could do with the zealots, they could revive themselves as long as one member survived. Which means that you needed to kill all of them for them all to die, and when you aren't as well equipt, i.e. leveling weapons, this can become difficult, especially if they are in different rooms. But at the same time no one (that i know of) complained about this ability being annoying.

By giving more enemies revival/healing mechanics, it would let them live long enough to actually use some interesting tactics.

Edited October 12, 2019 by AndouRaiton
more stuff

[Alzyheimer]

2 minutes ago, AndouRaiton said:

they already do this one, atleast from what i've observed. Same with ranged grineer hiding behind shield grineer.

The problem is that there is no point giving enemies tactics like that as we kill everything in a group easily.

Better tactics the enemies could use would be decoys (enemies running one way whilst a group runs another), flanking the warframe, luring the warframe into traps, that sort of thing.

Again won't work too well as all enemies die way too quickly and so would only be interesting for the minuscule amount of players that do +1hour survival runs missions on Mot.

Oh I just read it on the wiki and its true... Funny how after 2k hours I didn't even notice it.

Aye I'd like to see some diversity in the way they fight. Maybe some disruption grenades, setting up perimeters, or blunts actually being something keep an eye on - for example actually made of protective material like metal (and not a baloon), would have a cool interaction with corrosive that would just melt it or blast which would literally blow it apart.

Enemies using their enviroments, especially their own turf against us could be cool. For example the gas city, that tileset has so many traps, gas pipes that can be blown, cannisters left and right... Imagine them luring us closer to them only to blow a friggin gas pipe in our faces.

Honestly I wish they would do something for the eximus mobs, as they're nothing more than a slight upgrade from the normal ones.

For infestation imagine the maggots actually being a bit faster and instead of doing a meager amount of damage, it would actually drain your energy over time instead, so you couldn't just ignore them. When we are with infestation, I HIGHLY doubt that it is safe to walk on the tileset where infestation is spreading.  

But yea... if they want to make the gameplay elements interesting, they'd need to revisit the very core systems they build their game upon. And honestly, that wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Klokwerkaos]

1 hour ago, Avienas said:

Warframe is not exactly a Dynasty Warrior type game cause we are not cleaving thru thousands of grunts who do absolutely nothing and our character choice means little

You're right on one front... I cleave through millions of enemies, not thousands... character choice however, does not matter at endgame.  it does at mid, which is where most players are, but when you invest properly, your warframe doesn't matter because all frames can be modded to room nuke with an appropriate zaw, and tank indefinitely with all tank mods equipped, even squish frames.

[Shalath]

13 hours ago, Alzyheimer said:

Just imagine enemies ACTUALLY using covers, team tactics, maybe some utilities, maybe the corpus footmen retreating into the nullifier bubbles etc.

 

9 hours ago, AndouRaiton said:

they already do this one, atleast from what i've observed. Same with ranged grineer hiding behind shield grineer.

I have seen enemies using cover and hiding in nully bubbles (and nullies grouping together) as well but how much it happens seems to depend on the map and how long the enemies actually stay alive for. The problem is that we nuke enemies so quickly we never really see them doing anything other than dying. I tend to see it when levelling MR fodder (I play solo so no Hydron snoozefests) and slowly chewing my way through groups with awful weapons.

Improving AI is pretty pointless while we have enemies that are one-shotted the instant we see them.

[Avienas]

11 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

You're right on one front... I cleave through millions of enemies, not thousands... character choice however, does not matter at endgame.  it does at mid, which is where most players are, but when you invest properly, your warframe doesn't matter because all frames can be modded to room nuke with an appropriate zaw, and tank indefinitely with all tank mods equipped, even squish frames.

Noxes, Nullifiers, Ancients, Bursas, Bombards, Kavat Old Ladies, Butchers, Mine Ospreys, Spider-bots, etc. would like a good word with ya on what kind of grand annoyance they are, especially when they can either cc you with little issue, able to easily soak thru all sorts of damage because they have some fancy invulnerability/damage resistance gag which could even break what all the other units of the faction has or just out-right force you to break a pattern and put you in a vulnerable moment, which can be a problem if your one of those maximum damage nut-jobs with no survivability present, plus does not help that even if you bring survivability, unless you already somehow have a absurdly high blast resistance from adaptation already, bombards can pretty much one shot you in the higher levels cause of how busted various things can be, since i am sure those buggers are running off a warframe`s damage values and not the enemy damage values, at how rather easy i can find myself getting yeeted by one of those while doing a deep grineer-map farm of some sort.

Plus does not help that once you get to the MILLIONS points, most enemies are likely going to be in the level 80+ range where your kill speed should be significantly reduced but the reward pool ain`t getting appropriately buffed to compensate, which is something D.E. needs to honestly do to end-less mission types of rewarding players appropriately for more difficult content.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Avienas

[Avienas]

12 hours ago, Alzyheimer said:

They're broken, unrewarding and tedious, They changed a lot, no longer can you get 1 key and focus on surviving that mission as long as possible to get the max amount of rewards, the survival mission literally pauses your game, stops you from playing to pick rewards, and when you open 15 radiant relics in a row, getting nothing but bronze rewards, it really hits you in the guts.

And this is pretty much why one of the pushes i want to gun for is to make the relic system more stand-alone and not involve other players as much outside of trading relics/parts. Because if a person can just pick what they want from their own list and quickly pick a relic to equip and then immediately get back to the game, it greatly downsizes the time wasted in a inactive state.

Like-wise, by having things like traces getting removed or have them gained thru more passive ways(such as maybe just let us distill excess affinity into traces after we stock up the stuff to create a FLOW of a system since alot of the game is just grinding) or we can at the very least just melt excessive amount of relics to get around say 20 traces per relic, then people can actually have a nice loop of a system where even if we get loads of trash relics while chasing specific relics, they can easily be converted into useful materials, instead of forcing ourselves to dig thru them while the intent being for traces.

Oh and obviously: Greatly buff trace gain by default if they want to actually keep the dang system the same, Very least D.E. needs to put some PROPER improvements cause i think asking for a +10% void trace gain per MR, as part of an additional bonus to incentive-ize players to chase for higher MR would be rather nice of a start. Plenty of games provide buffs and powerful unlocks as people get to the `high level`, what makes warframe so special to IGNORE rewarding players for reaching the `high mastery tiers`? 

12 hours ago, Alzyheimer said:

Wish they went what theyre going for with "kuva weapons" to be the core of the gameplay instead of having 500 different types of resources to manage, waiting 12 hours to get the weapon and in the end scrapping it beacuse you can't use it effectively enough in high level missions. Imagine after finishing a mission you get a gun from it with random generated stats. Loot would be exciting and I would go into missions beacuse I want to, not beacuse I need to. Hell imagine if they didnt showcase the weapons in devstream and in the update it would say something like "there are 2 new weapons in the game, can you find them?"

Kuva weapons feel more like annoited weapons from Borderlands 3, its effectively the same weapon but likely gets a special passive tacked on, based on whatever boi/gal lich you just happen to introduce to your best impression of Altair/Ezio/Conner/etc. with some magical multi-tool stabber we suddenly have now. Variation weapons would of been nice a long time ago, but since they already gave us modular weapons with zaws/kit-guns, the novelty of what they could of been has especially been damped.

EspeciallySinceTheOnesTheyWantedToShowOffIncludingedTheStubbaAndWeAllKnowThatUnlessKuvaLichModifiersGiveAbsurdlyGoodEffectsThatTheyWillStillBeGARBAGE,EvenWithanExtraPassive.

Just for context, this mobile game i keep mentioning in some other posts of mine, Honkai Impact 3rd, basically started bringing out 6 star weapons with its most recent update. Which basically absurdly jacks up how good some weapons are. A good example being Magstorm, a `signature lightning element katana` for a old character which was normally used as a support by debuffing enemies to take more lightning damage. Said 6 star weapons basically give a massive improvement of stats, plus turn a semi-meh active skill and passive skill into absurdly strong ones on top of giving a second passive. Which pretty much it alone brought said character into a top tier DPS of absurd levels. D.E. pretty much needs these kuva weapons to pull something that is partially like that, so things like a Kuva-Stubba can actually be impressive enough to warrant using them over the typical bread and butter instant kill weapons. Otherwise as soon as people find out we can get things like a ``Kuva Lanka`` or ``Kuva Lenz``, people would likely only chase after those weapons and likely scrap whatever kuva liches they get to a trash board instead.

Oh lets not forget about riven mods just further pushing that, kind of a SHAME we did not get these things BEFORE riven mods, so people are likely going to judge if a kuva weapon is worth using outside of memes and funsies, if the riven also buffs it to be absurdly op to boot.

 

12 hours ago, Alzyheimer said:

The Wolf was a massive bullet sponge and was just not fun to play against. But I agree on your point though. Plus we had to do it like 300 times to get all the wolf sledge parts, which was a pain in itself.

This is quite ironically the same feeling i had in Borderlands 3 when i got around to fighting a clearly brokenly designed enemy known as a annoited Militant, which can pretty much go damage immune whenever it wants so even if you have mayhem modifiers that benefit the crap out of your damage, it basically matters little unless your running very specifically abilities, normally an Amara with Phase grasp which can atleast force enemies out of annoying immunity crap.

Shame D.E. is not really giving players bosses/mini-bosses that much, where we get to have proper interaction elements like being able to force a enemy out of some annoying action to make them vulnerable to our best impression of a mafia-style bullet storm.

Granted that might just be my enjoyment when i kind of enjoyed Dauntless on where you can smash a monster`s face when they come charging at you or is trying to setup a special attack, only for you to force them instead to flop on the ground, usually dazed and then you can enjoy proceeding to Yeet`m and break as many parts off as you can to reap that sweet extra loot for setting up the perfect opportunity.

Honestly that makes me wish the third nightwave boss functions more like a giant monster in a open world map and similar to how with ambulas where we break off their armor to allow dealing more damage to them, we can aim to damage specific sections of them to get them to drop particular loot from those parts, would CERTAINLY be quite a rather fun fight i would say, especially if it includes making said `enemy` lose some particular actions like being able to charge as often or as fast, because you crippled some of its legs.

[Steel_Rook]

12 hours ago, Alzyheimer said:

Oh I just read it on the wiki and its true... Funny how after 2k hours I didn't even notice it.

And that right there is why "make the AI smarter" is a dead-end street. You can make each Grineer into Sun Tzu and nobody's going to notice as we mow them down by the dozens without even paying attention to what we're even shooting at. Can YOU tell the difference between all the different types of Corpus Crewmen, or are you shooting at silhouettes most of the time? In almost every game I've seen these "make the AI smarter" suggestions, it inevitably turns out that the AI is a lot smarter than people give it credit for, because it's smart in ways that nobody notices. The same happened in Payday 2, where people just didn't notice cops trying to flank, retreat and take cover.

You wanna' make combat in Warframe less of a cluster#*!%? Start by making the difference between enemies actually matter. Pretty much all of Warframe's enemies feel like they were designed ad-hoc, one at a time, thrown in with no real idea of what role they were supposed to feel or how they'd differ from what's already there. DE most recently added these Gargantua-looking Infested things to some missions... And for the life of me I can't tell what's supposed to be special about them. They're big, they hit me, I shoot them, so they're functionally indistinguishable from a Toxic Ancient or a Boiler. The same goes for Exumus enemies. There are what? 12 different kids of them? I have no idea what the vast majority even do. What's a "Sanguine Eximus?" What's the difference between a Denial Bursa and a Drover Bursa? Why do we need a dozen different kinds of Lancers with seemingly the only difference being what weapon they use?

Making the underlying design more complex doesn't make the end-user experience more complex. On the contrary - too much design complexity simply inspires people to find catch-all solutions and treat it all the same anyway. If I can't tell which Eximus does what, then my only real solution is to shoot them in the head and not worry about it. Good AI is simple AI which the player can identify, understand and predict. You have to remember that AI critters in a horde shooter aren't "your enemy." They're a game mechanic. Their point isn't to kill you, but rather to make you pay attention and explore the game's suite of tools for dealing with enemies. Good AI, then, is AI which keeps players looking, listening and reacting. That requires more than making enemies take cover like they already do.

[Klokwerkaos]

11 hours ago, Avienas said:

Noxes, Nullifiers, Ancients, Bursas, Bombards, Kavat Old Ladies, Butchers, Mine Ospreys, Spider-bots, etc. would like a good word with ya on what kind of grand annoyance they are, especially when they can either cc you with little issue, able to easily soak thru all sorts of damage because they have some fancy invulnerability/damage resistance gag which could even break what all the other units of the faction has or just out-right force you to break a pattern and put you in a vulnerable moment, which can be a problem if your one of those maximum damage nut-jobs with no survivability present, plus does not help that even if you bring survivability, unless you already somehow have a absurdly high blast resistance from adaptation already, bombards can pretty much one shot you in the higher levels cause of how busted various things can be, since i am sure those buggers are running off a warframe`s damage values and not the enemy damage values, at how rather easy i can find myself getting yeeted by one of those while doing a deep grineer-map farm of some sort.

Plus does not help that once you get to the MILLIONS points, most enemies are likely going to be in the level 80+ range where your kill speed should be significantly reduced but the reward pool ain`t getting appropriately buffed to compensate, which is something D.E. needs to honestly do to end-less mission types of rewarding players appropriately for more difficult content.

none of those enemey types matter... i won't notice any enemies as anything but wet tissue paper until around 60 minutes in an arbitration where I go from instant room wide1 shotting everything to 2 shotting for noxes and juggs.   2 shots does make them slightly annoying, but not really lethal to anything but a companion.  

that said, yes, there is a drop off in reward for all things, except for arbitrations, which give you infinite C rotation.

I see your point, and while that applies to a typical mid game player, it doesn't for me, and I'm not magical, so technically anyone can achieve the same status if they put the time in and invest properly, meaning the goal should be to grind more and up your arsenal.

[Avienas]

16 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

none of those enemey types matter... i won't notice any enemies as anything but wet tissue paper until around 60 minutes in an arbitration where I go from instant room wide1 shotting everything to 2 shotting for noxes and juggs.   2 shots does make them slightly annoying, but not really lethal to anything but a companion.  

that said, yes, there is a drop off in reward for all things, except for arbitrations, which give you infinite C rotation.

I see your point, and while that applies to a typical mid game player, it doesn't for me, and I'm not magical, so technically anyone can achieve the same status if they put the time in and invest properly, meaning the goal should be to grind more and up your arsenal.

Never the less as you basically said `a drop off in reward for all things`, Because an actual incentive does not exist in practically all the older content, most content turns to utter garbage to chase for deeper runs. Plus with Bounties & Disruption/Arbitation reward tables easily proving D.E. could go that route. They might even need to re-consider how to work out said rewards so the game mode types can be towards more  specific loot tables and have more going on then the majority of them just being: Chase this for X bp parts or chase for X specific relic pools.

Granted it does not help that D.E. has quite a few game modes that some feel like, if they were forced to scrap some for some critical reasons, i feel a good 3 to 4 of them could be dropped off, which i would likely put my money on Mobile Defense & Interception being amongst them. Since the former basically feels like the slowest of all non-endless types and basically force what is effectively an extra 3 to 4.5 minutes for protecting consoles, regardless of level. The Later being it basically becoming mandatory to have a large group and since D.E. never took the approach to have less towers to protect when you have a group of say 2 people or even solo, it becomes a slight pain to go across the map to keep 4 points on constant lock down, when you do not have many options to deploy a `reliable` way to protect said node for a sizable period of time, which at best is just going to cover 1 of the targets and typical cheese only works if its a infested only map.

Plus just because one is end-game player, the issue turns instead from Difficulty, to instead a utter boredom of Burnout to repeatedly do said requirement with the same situation as if you were doing it as a mid-game player and you can`t speed up most of the rotations unless your running a map nuking frame(defense) or just be insanely mobile & great at mowing down a specific target(the new disruption game mode). Sure i can `leave` warframe, but thats kind of the lazy excuse when warframe is still one of the better online games that do not require you paying for a huge amount of expansion packs/subscription costs to even have access to said game.

Just to get back to the first part though, its funny that Void keys, just like how Derelict keys are currently, are pretty much amongst the few older content that incentivize players to do longer runs on a single session because you are using a consumable, the former which was rarer then relics were, but D.E. decided to make the game more accessible and pushed towards killing difficulty and alot of the incentive to do difficult content, which is usually what players who stay around would like to do, so they can properly enjoy those satisfactory rush of success, instead of devolving to its just `business as usual` much sooner then it should be, which is basically what Sortie is now for those who still stomach the bad loot pool and the bait of a riven mod.

[Klokwerkaos]

9 hours ago, Avienas said:

Never the less as you basically said `a drop off in reward for all things`, Because an actual incentive does not exist in practically all the older content, most content turns to utter garbage to chase for deeper runs. Plus with Bounties & Disruption/Arbitation reward tables easily proving D.E. could go that route. They might even need to re-consider how to work out said rewards so the game mode types can be towards more  specific loot tables and have more going on then the majority of them just being: Chase this for X bp parts or chase for X specific relic pools.

Granted it does not help that D.E. has quite a few game modes that some feel like, if they were forced to scrap some for some critical reasons, i feel a good 3 to 4 of them could be dropped off, which i would likely put my money on Mobile Defense & Interception being amongst them. Since the former basically feels like the slowest of all non-endless types and basically force what is effectively an extra 3 to 4.5 minutes for protecting consoles, regardless of level. The Later being it basically becoming mandatory to have a large group and since D.E. never took the approach to have less towers to protect when you have a group of say 2 people or even solo, it becomes a slight pain to go across the map to keep 4 points on constant lock down, when you do not have many options to deploy a `reliable` way to protect said node for a sizable period of time, which at best is just going to cover 1 of the targets and typical cheese only works if its a infested only map.

Plus just because one is end-game player, the issue turns instead from Difficulty, to instead a utter boredom of Burnout to repeatedly do said requirement with the same situation as if you were doing it as a mid-game player and you can`t speed up most of the rotations unless your running a map nuking frame(defense) or just be insanely mobile & great at mowing down a specific target(the new disruption game mode). Sure i can `leave` warframe, but thats kind of the lazy excuse when warframe is still one of the better online games that do not require you paying for a huge amount of expansion packs/subscription costs to even have access to said game.

Just to get back to the first part though, its funny that Void keys, just like how Derelict keys are currently, are pretty much amongst the few older content that incentivize players to do longer runs on a single session because you are using a consumable, the former which was rarer then relics were, but D.E. decided to make the game more accessible and pushed towards killing difficulty and alot of the incentive to do difficult content, which is usually what players who stay around would like to do, so they can properly enjoy those satisfactory rush of success, instead of devolving to its just `business as usual` much sooner then it should be, which is basically what Sortie is now for those who still stomach the bad loot pool and the bait of a riven mod.

the game is free to play, but someone's gotta pay.  this is why the push is towards newer casual players.  they have a trash retention rate and problem for dedicated players.  for them it's easier to cash in on newbies than it is to fix the endgame.  the ultimate goal would be to do both, but fast cash now is sustainable for the moment.  eventually though they will hit market saturation and either need to fix their game or cash out.  betting on the latter given with how despondent steve has been speaking about the game in questions about the future as of late.

[Avienas]

15 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

the game is free to play, but someone's gotta pay.  this is why the push is towards newer casual players.  they have a trash retention rate and problem for dedicated players.  for them it's easier to cash in on newbies than it is to fix the endgame.  the ultimate goal would be to do both, but fast cash now is sustainable for the moment.  eventually though they will hit market saturation and either need to fix their game or cash out.  betting on the latter given with how despondent steve has been speaking about the game in questions about the future as of late.

Pretty much why i kept pointing out things like Destiny 2 and Phantasy Star Online 2 to be major concerns since warframe will not have that free to play edge against the former anymore and just like both of them, PSO2 is a space-centric Free to Play, Looter-based game. Granted PSO2 has had loads of previous titles before it such as: PSO1, PSPortable(about 3-4 entries if i recall), PSUniverse, even a mobile version of PSO2 called PSO2es, so you can pretty much declare PSO2 has loads of experience, but considering warframe has only 1 year less compared to PSO2`s launch, its a major wonder on why Warframe has yet to finish polishing things for better newer player experiences. Players rarely want to pay on a game if they first try it out AND/OR they do not want to stick around that long for it, aka no long term experience, little chance they wanna shell money out for it just on a first player experience, even if it has a fantastic early game experience. So its obviously important that D.E. should of been focused on the ENTIRE player retention then everyone thinking they were just focusing on the new player experience. Its honestly just they never put the full on serious-ness to get everything grounded and kept to a clock-work approach with loads of content while a good chunk of the content, fashion frame, was literally just picked up by third party content creators that got what they made picked and they get a small bit of platinum whenever someone buys their stuff in the shop.

Honestly in my opinion its the WORST idea to push towards casual players when no proper foundation for newer players is even present such as:

• After the `lack-luster tutorial`, you do not get much in the form of tool tips or what not to teach players of every function of the orbiter.

 

• Not too much of a emphasis on a internal `guide section` that players could setup and D.E. could have a list of links with short descriptions of each guide for newer players to partake of. Sure they can go online for these things, but i do not think every player, especially newer ones, like having to make use of a `training manual`, just to have enough of an understanding for good fun.

 

• Lack of a good loop system to keep players wanting to come back, Daily grinds to unlock bigger Daily grinds i tend to find as amongst some of the most boring things, especially if it does not lead to a bigger benefit to greatly improve the player experience. Which getting access to better loot may sound better, but not if you end up having to do twice to even quadruple the previous grind just to get one particular item, even if you get a `limited freebie` on it.

 

• Further point on point 3 is that if too many of these `unlocked grinds` keep having a perpetual requirement that you cannot simply put down, leads to just huge amounts of burn out. This is kind of why i appreciated particular `grinds` expanding upon earlier grinds by making it easier to do said things. So if you do a grind on one particular island, you will have sizable progress on another island of grind without having to be on that 2nd island itself. Pretty much why i like to put a emphasis also on systems being towards more of a weekly grind instead of a daily one but they can easily be done in just a few days or just a long-term daily amount. Since Burn out Ruins everything and any type of Grind to give a positive experience should be made sure to not be made tedious, while also being generous.

 

• Heck, on that extra note, it would be kind of nice that instead of simply giving us the ability to grind for larger amounts of `standing` on particular things like syndicates, they instead kept to say a base of 1000 for a hypothetical example and each rank up would increase the multiplier gain. So like say rank 2 would give 1200 standing in the period it takes to get that 1000 standing and it would scale up so by the time we hit rank 5 we would get a value of 5000 standing in the period it takes to get that 1000 standing `limit`. Which this is just a hypothetical example, with the basic idea being we basically get a `bigger paycheck` for the same amount of work because we proved ourselves in said syndicates. Pretty much we would still be doing the time it takes to get that 1000 `point amount` just we would get much more due to a `mastery & syndicate rank` multiplier bonus in the same amount of time.

Anyway overall, i would like to not say Warframe is a completely dead game, since i have seen games die off much quicker with a free to play design and promising difference they would have compared to previous online games, i would like to believe this is just turning into a nice turning point, that D.E. needs to step up on what they bring to the table and do some tuning on how to improve player retention thru FUN methods, then tedious ones. Even something as simple as releasing monthly content drops like some polished up old tactical alerts would be a good step in the right direction, maybe even bring back raids with a few nice changes to the rewards and throw in a ranking board at how fast people can clear the raid under special conditions such as in 4 man groups or with a limited loadout selection they can make use of.

Since if playing Destiny 1&2, in addition to Final Fantasy 14 and my time with Phantasy Star online 2 taught me from experience on those, a game can keep a happy player base with the same repeatable content, if they are done right. Try looking up on Phantasy Star Online 2`s Emergency Quests or the E-Trials that can show up during regular quests for a good example on those bits.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Avienas

[Klokwerkaos]

8 hours ago, Avienas said:

After the `lack-luster tutorial`, you do not get much in the form of tool tips or what not to teach players of every function of the orbiter.

it's getting better, honestly.  I used to complain about this a lot, but I"ve stopped since there is regular progress here.

 

8 hours ago, Avienas said:

Not too much of a emphasis on a internal `guide section` that players could setup and D.E. could have a list of links with short descriptions of each guide for newer players to partake of. Sure they can go online for these things, but i do not think every player, especially newer ones, like having to make use of a `training manual`, just to have enough of an understanding for good fun.

mostly impossible since what is relevant changes with each patch.  i have such a guide for my clan mates.  it tells them everything they need to know from mr 0 to max OP over 9000, about 10% of the players that have this shoved in their face will actually learn it, and it requires regular updated with every patch.  plus it directly conflicts to put this in game with youtube/streampartners which give them free advertisement.  additionally it's not in their financial interest to educate the player base, this should be obvious.

 

8 hours ago, Avienas said:

Lack of a good loop system to keep players wanting to come back, Daily grinds to unlock bigger Daily grinds i tend to find as amongst some of the most boring things, especially if it does not lead to a bigger benefit to greatly improve the player experience. Which getting access to better loot may sound better, but not if you end up having to do twice to even quadruple the previous grind just to get one particular item, even if you get a `limited freebie` on it.

nightwave has gone a long way to fix this imho.

 

 

8 hours ago, Avienas said:

Further point on point 3 is that if too many of these `unlocked grinds` keep having a perpetual requirement that you cannot simply put down, leads to just huge amounts of burn out. This is kind of why i appreciated particular `grinds` expanding upon earlier grinds by making it easier to do said things. So if you do a grind on one particular island, you will have sizable progress on another island of grind without having to be on that 2nd island itself. Pretty much why i like to put a emphasis also on systems being towards more of a weekly grind instead of a daily one but they can easily be done in just a few days or just a long-term daily amount. Since Burn out Ruins everything and any type of Grind to give a positive experience should be made sure to not be made tedious, while also being generous.

this is very subjective.  when I get burned out it's not from the gameplay, it's usually from the devs refusing to do certain things that annoy me, then I go play something else for 6 months and come back when I have more patience.  this is actually healthy.  I might suggest people check out city of heroes, destiny 2, path of exile and other great F2P alternatives when they reach that stage.  there are many great games out there, and yes, we shouldn't "have to" do that, but we do, so, that's at least a viable solution until de makes some kind of endgame.

 

 

8 hours ago, Avienas said:

Heck, on that extra note, it would be kind of nice that instead of simply giving us the ability to grind for larger amounts of `standing` on particular things like syndicates, they instead kept to say a base of 1000 for a hypothetical example and each rank up would increase the multiplier gain. So like say rank 2 would give 1200 standing in the period it takes to get that 1000 standing and it would scale up so by the time we hit rank 5 we would get a value of 5000 standing in the period it takes to get that 1000 standing `limit`. Which this is just a hypothetical example, with the basic idea being we basically get a `bigger paycheck` for the same amount of work because we proved ourselves in said syndicates. Pretty much we would still be doing the time it takes to get that 1000 `point amount` just we would get much more due to a `mastery & syndicate rank` multiplier bonus in the same amount of time.

they already do this with sigils.

point in case, i have my gripes with de, but they aren't these.

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[bubbabenali]

Am 11.10.2019 um 21:18 schrieb Alzyheimer:

I agree. Just imagine enemies ACTUALLY using covers, team tactics, maybe some utilities, maybe the corpus footmen retreating into the nullifier bubbles etc. Calling them stormtroopers is a praise.

I get that, but it really wouldn't hurt the game now would it?

If you'd take a low level weapon without mods into a high level mission you'd see that the ai isn't so stupid as many say. They use cover or fall back sometimes. They usually just get oneshoted all the time. 

[Avienas]

10 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

it's getting better, honestly.  I used to complain about this a lot, but I"ve stopped since there is regular progress here.

mostly impossible since what is relevant changes with each patch.  i have such a guide for my clan mates.  it tells them everything they need to know from mr 0 to max OP over 9000, about 10% of the players that have this shoved in their face will actually learn it, and it requires regular updated with every patch.  plus it directly conflicts to put this in game with youtube/streampartners which give them free advertisement.  additionally it's not in their financial interest to educate the player base, this should be obvious.

I am not simply talking about that oddly specific content with how to be an elite at said content, the following would be some nice condensed guides people could make for newer players that D.E. could have available in the codex:

• Relic System & Tips Guide.
• Baro`kiteer Guide.
• Early Warframe recommendations Guide.
• Early Weapon recommendations Guide.
• Early modding build suggestion Guide.
• How to obtain particular resources Guide(Since we know how many times we get people who clearly does not understand most resources are untradable and have no fking idea on how to get Nitain extract or Argon Crystals).
• Early boss Guide & a breakdown explanation on the difficulty range of particular bosses and content.
• Beginner`s guide to Eidolons & Orb mother guide(especially to explain the steps necessary on how to unlock them, what recommended frames should be used for newbies to it and what are the bare minimums they should bring before thinking they can stupidly jump into any group with just a Trinity and not know what said role they have to cover between lure grabbing and heal-upkeep. In addition to people skipping SURVIVABILITY constantly).

Pretty much just guides like those which could cover entry level explanations for players so they do not need to rely on looking up online guides & Videos for such. But i guess if D.E. were to be as considerate to the NEWER PLAYER-BASE that way, then plenty of warframe content creators would lose a good chunk of things they would cover on videos usually made for newer players.

Plus like-wise it should be OBVIOUS, that it should be in D.E.`s best interest to have the playerbase educated so they know what to do at the BASIC LEVEL and can focus more on enjoying the game then be stuck running around like head-less chickens? Because they have no idea on how to get certain things and rather beg other players for it then actually know what steps they need to do to get said goods? Which if all the newer players are just really begging and getting stuff for free, will those players be able to help the next set of newer players on how to get said things if they do not know how to get them, once the veterans who did know how end up staying off warframe often because they have not much to do and have other titles they can enjoy more?

Quote

nightwave has gone a long way to fix this imho.

Alerts were quite a bit optional and the desperation was worrying you would miss things. They did fix it a tad by season 2 with less grind, but they still left more annoying ones like silver grove specters in or requiring other objectives that might be rather boring, though i can`t recall any that were worst then requiring us to do a bunch of rounds to chase plants, even if we had the general idea on what maps they spawned on, they need to honestly reduce the plants required per apothic to 2 universal ones and remove this whole day/night cycle crap with regular earth missions, since they serve not really any purpose anymore these days.

Never the less, One thing a long-term game, especially one as old as warframe at the moment, should always strive for is never stopping at just `going a long way fixing it`, but instead should aim for `polish a system to where complaints on it have practically vanished entirely`. Since once a system is at that point of perfection, they should not need to do much to improve upon it for a very long time, which if i had to do a proper nit-picking at many systems in warframe, they never did have said polishing either started or even done much with only a few getting some attention after a very long period of time, with many more that never got touched either.

Quote

this is very subjective.  when I get burned out it's not from the gameplay, it's usually from the devs refusing to do certain things that annoy me, then I go play something else for 6 months and come back when I have more patience.  this is actually healthy.  I might suggest people check out city of heroes, destiny 2, path of exile and other great F2P alternatives when they reach that stage.  there are many great games out there, and yes, we shouldn't "have to" do that, but we do, so, that's at least a viable solution until de makes some kind of endgame.

Plenty of things i see that warframe has ignored for quite a bit of time, where i have seen plenty of other games addressed rather easily. Such as Final Fantasy 14 ditching its weekly cap on gathering/crafting scrip currency once the stormblood expansion came around alongside changing how its glamour aka appearance system to a plate setup so its easier to fashion your character. How League of Legends long ago changed up its whole farmable currency into that B.E. system which had some benefits, even if it had downsides, but still felt somewhat more enjoyable then how frustrating the old version was.

Though its normal to go play something else to get rid of burnout, the amount of time it takes for warframe to drop new content feels as it takes as long, if not even longer then some other free to play games that pretty much devolved into throwing out crappy `cash grab package drops till they start talking about teasing new content, months after the last content is brought out. Basically to where if i was not making sure to do my daily logins to finally get primed shred in a few months, i would likely go on a proper hiatus since i have little care on making platinum these days, doing riven mods aka daily sorties due to how bleh the rewards feel, even the notion of farming eidolons are not that interesting anymore since most arcanes are non-existent value as far as the market is concerned. Plus chasing rare ones is a boredom to boot, when the value i can likely get for them, would not amount as much as me just spending just as much time, getting a bunch of prime parts and hope i can sell each one at 1 platinum a piece, which the latter might actually be much faster in that regard since i am not as time-gated on farming said prime junk.

P.S. Very sure you can find it present on plenty of online videos, but a good point brought up often is how rather EASY it is for some newer content to be completed and not much else is given in terms of repeatable content when those things come around. Which just further ruins a game that has a content drought issue to where even newer content becomes a drought just as fast, since not even side-activities like K-drives, fishing/mining, Luna-*shot*, Shazwin music making, etc. have much expansiveness to enjoy, unless you force alot of it into long-time communication with other players, doing silly things in a sandbox style or just doing self-imposed challenges which might not serve much purpose, except trying to be a jerk-level show off to your clan.

Either way, not everyone can make the time investment to play multiple online games, especially if certain online games has quite a few dailies for you to do each day, to where even if you barely login for one of the titles, having multiple online games you chase could be more of a chore then its worth, especially if one of them is a subscription based title. Plus expecting D.E. to make ENDGAME, after they took out the closest things to such, Void Key system, Raids and only really leaving us Eidolons, Orb Mother, ESO & Arbitations, which most are just hot-garbage with one used as a affinity/focus farming simulator, two of them could literally be soloed by players and some even do up to 5 full rotations of them in less then the hour provided they are up and the other half of said things have to be part of a frustrations of extremely terrible drop rates for so called `achievement fashion.`, that it reminds me of how Final Fantasy 14 at the very least, allowed people to purchase the gear & mounts of Extreme-tier bosses, if the drop rate of the goods messed with them alot, even if it required 99 clears of said boss for a guaranteed `mount` of that boss, which makes me wonder why D.E. can`t have a similar thing with Ephemera where we could get tokens for clearing rotations for things like ESO and we would get larger amounts in deeper runs and a sizable amount could be used to get the rarer goods, so people do not have to be stuck on a bad, b.s. rng-sus, when said good are untradable to boot.

Quote

they already do this with sigils.
point in case, i have my gripes with de, but they aren't these.

Apparently you did not do a proper listening to my statement, speaking of Sigils, some people do not like wearing them constantly, but you NEED to wear a specific one to get specific standing, sure you get ones that give bonus standing, but you need to be a higher rank to have the option to purchase said ones and ranking up in both mastery and with the syndicate greatly increases the amount you can acrue.

I am talking about a simplification of the system where it would be rather nice if players did not have to wear a sigil to get the standing of specific syndicates, plus it would be the same exact amount of time taken, to grind the amount of standing you would acrue. Meaning if you were at a higher mastery/standing rank, the time it would take to get 1000 standing at the initial ranks, would instead give much more standing naturally and you would not have to do a longer grind to get said amount. Basically it would be nice for things like mastery and syndicate rank would boost the GAIN AMOUNT one gets for standing, instead of increasing the amount you can farm a day, where the latter would increase the amount of grind and the former simply gives you a bigger paycheck, for the same amount of work as you did before, sort of like getting a promotion/raise at a job for your paycheck.

Plus for some people who have seen my posts in multiple threads, they would know i have kind of been advocating for D.E. to put more systems into a weekly based system instead of a daily one. That way if D.E. is going to continue this content drought approach, people could just simply log in once or thrice a week, get the content they like done and then come back the next week without any worry on missing out any stuff on the several days they do not login for the game.

 

Extra P.S. Just to further point out about the simplification of syndicates, it would be nice if how the missions were carried out were condensed and each one was one was more rewarding as a single mission, then requiring  you to do 3 of each syndicate, daily while chasing medallions in each one, when each mission would normally not take so long, while some are not as rewarding since endless ones tend to randomly decide if they want to have medallions or not.

The basic nutshell would be the idea of just letting us get some kind of general currency for syndicates (since d.e. wants to finally cave in and give us universal medallions now) that we can donate for standing in whichever we want at the time and not be forced to be a walking billboard for that syndicate to make them give us standing to get their loots, but we have to remember to change syndicates regularly if we want point stock in several of them, unless we like spending said things regularly for either barely any value `platinum` syndicate weapons or on stuff we most likely will not need, especially if we already have say 10+ decorations of that syndicate and all the goods that you only want one copy of, you already had for, years ago.

Especially if we are able to align ourselves to multiple factions when they should of probably been condensed a tad or each syndicate had REAL benefits that were exclusive to them, then loot we can easily get from other players thru trading or loot that is not some simple fashion frame extras which most are just appearance garbo these days, which we have yet to even get syndicate emblems for our shoulders or syndicate accessories, outside of the syandanas.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Avienas

[Klokwerkaos]

4 hours ago, Avienas said:

• Relic System & Tips Guide.
• Baro`kiteer Guide.
• Early Warframe recommendations Guide.
• Early Weapon recommendations Guide.
• Early modding build suggestion Guide.
• How to obtain particular resources Guide(Since we know how many times we get people who clearly does not understand most resources are untradable and have no fking idea on how to get Nitain extract or Argon Crystals).
• Early boss Guide & a breakdown explanation on the difficulty range of particular bosses and content.
• Beginner`s guide to Eidolons & Orb mother guide(especially to explain the steps necessary on how to unlock them, what recommended frames should be used for newbies to it and what are the bare minimums they should bring before thinking they can stupidly jump into any group with just a Trinity and not know what said role they have to cover between lure grabbing and heal-upkeep. In addition to people skipping SURVIVABILITY constantly).

relic system is covered in game, tips is not, for many reasons.
baro is not something that needs a guide, just an intro message, which he has.
early warframe recommendations guide won't hold up, and is subjective, and again, there are reasons not to give "advice" about how to play, since that"s subjective and other reasons more.
same for weapons, mods.
resources guides are viewable on the starchart.  deeper understanding can't be delved into much for a wide variety of reasons.
wait what?  who needs help with early bosses?  like junctions and vor?  for real?  the answer is "up your arsenal" to all of those.
again, can't give guides to these for a variety of reasons.  that said, fight is pretty self explanatory.  the main problem is people have access to it long before they are geared for it, and so that leads to problems with learning it.

 

 

4 hours ago, Avienas said:

Never the less, One thing a long-term game, especially one as old as warframe at the moment, should always strive for is never stopping at just `going a long way fixing it`, but instead should aim for `polish a system to where complaints on it have practically vanished entirely`

sure I can see that. and there is more that can be done, but here's the thing with de.  they a F'ing slow to move on everything.  not sure if you heard< but there's been a content drought for about 2 years.  better that they make slow and good enough content, than no content and release one perfect thing a year.  I sure do have lots of criticisms of de, don't get me wrong, many many more than you probably know.  there are even times where I want to cuss the devs out personally to their face.  this however, does nothing except raise my heart rate, since they rarely if ever listen to the community.  lately that has been improving a little, but not a lot.

 

 

4 hours ago, Avienas said:

Plenty of things i see that warframe has ignored for quite a bit of time

I have no argument against this bit, I'm in agreement with you, i just pick my battles with the devs.  they rarely pay attention to anything said on the forums, good or bad.  it's kind of like celebrities not reading youtube comments, it's for their mental health.  they have their own ideas for the most part and don't care too much about what we think unless there is a riot.  sometimes they listen, like fixing arbs, un nerfing loot frames and that the idea for 24 bad ai aimbot on your frame is a dumb reward nobody wants, but for the most part they do their own thing, and have said as much openly recently.

 

 

4 hours ago, Avienas said:

Apparently you did not do a proper listening to my statement, speaking of Sigils, some people do not like wearing them constantly, but you NEED to wear a specific one to get specific standing, sure you get ones that give bonus standing, but you need to be a higher rank to have the option to purchase said ones and ranking up in both mastery and with the syndicate greatly increases the amount you can acrue.

you can swap them at will.  part of f2p is busy work like this.  par for the course.

don't get me wrong, it would be "nice" if you could just auto get the best bonus, but this is not the hill I want to die on when fighting devs for fixes.

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[Avienas]

2 minutes ago, Klokwerkaos said:

snip

Welp guess we at least agree on some parts. Though i still say that some things could be tidied, since i can`t expect them to redesign some earlier bosses to be more interesting, it would be nice to give people either basic prompts or bits to nudge newer players on why they keep shooting Lech Kril & Sargas Ruk but they do not take damage. Since not everyone has the brain to pay attention to particular bosses doing something they should pay attention to.

This is kind of why i want bosses that originally had huge amounts of invincibility states, should instead take significantly reduced damage by default and hitting the vulnerabilities could put them in states where they significantly lose that damage reduction, would make more sense then them just being outright immune to well, basically everything till they decide to do a thing that puts them in a state to suddenly take damage.

 

Never the less for warframe/weapon guides, the point would be to give recommendations for easy to obtain, easy to make, easy to use thinks to start off with. Sort of like a suggestion of early on, guns like the Tigris, Soma & Sybaris would make good beginner weapons, though they could easily add snip-its on plenty exist and its highly recommended to try them all out to find what you like, especially to push the incentive for players to spend platinum on slots and build mastery.

Where the same for warframes such as recommendations including Gara, Trinity, Valkyr, Loki, the about to be re-worked ember, frost and rhino with a basic nutshell to describe how sturdy they can be, the playstyle they normally are used as in general and with a few side snip-its on more creative builds that some content creators have submitted to show off advanced designs on using them. Sure it sounds subjective, but i am very sure plenty of players would like to know WHY they should build a weapon/warframe, outside of mastery fodder, especially since not much of a `try out said weapon/warframe even exists in warframe`. Which honestly it would be nice if the simulacrum was expanded with a feature to let players try out the base version of a rank 30 warframe, especially ones newly released, so they can see what makes it so interesting.

 

Also the point is not to pick battles but to make sure the devs are REMINDED about such things, because if no one reminds devs that hey, alot of these things have been neglected for a while, WHY NOT DO SOMETHING TO THEM! Because especially if a gaming company is not properly scolded for making extremely rude decisions whether its catering to another country`s whims specifically(which leads the rest of the player base rather peeved at such actions) or thinking they can get away with dumping b.s. micro transactions in their titles, after going on record: Stating they would NOT put pay-to-win items in their game...Well then its up to the player base to really raise thar voices that the feedback they have to such actions are quite critical.

Plus since its clear D.E. is taking notice by reverting the loot-nerfs and how people were not to keen on the `umbratization system`, in addition to some particular elements that should be coming with the next update, it shows they are listening to the community and will likely reach towards those other annoyances in warframe, if they plan to fix the whole `separated islands issue` with how loads of the gameplay features are currently.

[Klokwerkaos]

6 hours ago, Avienas said:

Plus since its clear D.E. is taking notice by reverting the loot-nerfs and how people were not to keen on the `umbratization system`, in addition to some particular elements that should be coming with the next update, it shows they are listening to the community and will likely reach towards those other annoyances in warframe, if they plan to fix the whole `separated islands issue` with how loads of the gameplay features are currently.

I will start with I would not get your hopes up.  never do that with de, let them deliver and praise when they deserve praise and criticize what is valid to criticize.  doing otherwise means you're being deliberately self brain washed by the hype train, and that is a sure fire way to instant disappointment.  keep your expectations in the gutter and you'll more often be pleasantly surprised rather than horribly let down.

 

 

6 hours ago, Avienas said:

Since not everyone has the brain to pay attention to particular bosses doing something they should pay attention to.

wait... how easy do you want sargas ruk to be?  the game is already stupid easy, should people in comas be able to beat it?  should they be able to succeed if they are five and never played a video game before on the first attempt?  because that's about how inept you'd have to be not to figure out "wait, this is an invincibility phase, i should look for his next weak spot in a moment".

this may show my age... but there was a grand time in video games when challenge was a thing that existed.  where games didn't get easier as they went on, but harder... and there was no save, you got three tries and had to start over from scratch, and when you bought the game initially, you were done paying for it, microtransactions hadn't even been thought of (not picking on de here on the mt, but aaa games in general)...  and back in the early days we didn't even have game guides, you just had to figure it out for yourself... those days certainly had their down points, but there was also something magical about them too, and modern gaming has lost a lot of what initially made games enjoyable, like challenge and reward cycles.

games today are already too dumb.  warframe is too dumb.  I would stand strongly against making this game even more dumb.

 

 

6 hours ago, Avienas said:

Never the less for warframe/weapon guides, the point would be to give recommendations for easy to obtain, easy to make, easy to use thinks to start off with.

advice is subjective and also tells a player how to play the game.

ultimately one of the greatest things about warframe is that you can play however you want.  one of the biggest challenges of the game is the same.

this is where new players have to shockingly, ask other players or do their own research.

plus it's also immediately evident which weapons you buy bps for and which ones you buy whole.  Dummy logic dictates you buy the whole weapons for sale for credits to start (the crappy mk 1's) and move up from there.



 

[Avienas]

13 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

snip

To try and nutshell it a tad:

• Difference between brainwashed by the hype train and more like following the telltale game-style of: `X-character will remember that.`, because if plenty of people are clearly showing that that they are not satisfied with something and loads of them are voicing opinions, then its at the very least going to keep a company from thinking they can ignore the community. Since soon as they do, its basically going to have some major backlash that could be as simple as many people not purchasing any cosmetics they keep front-loading as priority over game fixes/improvements with the worst case being things like review bombs, boycotting the game or just outright leaving in mass droves, which even if a game is supposedly `centered around newer players`, does not help they did not do much for advertising in the earlier days. Plus i can say with experience on playing many titles, warframe is not a crap game, but it certainly ain`t close to new player friendly, even with the recent changes.

 

• When i talk about removing invulnerability phases aka how you are acting like i am talking about making bosses that are `supposedly weak, even weaker`, i mean straight up replacing it with damage reductions that can get in the 95% or more bracket till you do something to let you start doing actual critical damage, aka remove what could be like 70% of that D.R. temporarily removed, by forcing whatever damage dampening shield they had up till you did something like set off an explosive tank under them to force it offline from the surprise explosion. One thing i find in plenty of games quite enjoyable is when you can see a boss`s health bar, it gives a sense of pressure when you are barely doing much damage to them unlike the cannon fodder you have been beating up in earlier missions. But then you get that nice rush of excitement when you see huge chunks of a boss`s health suddenly fall off cause you did something right. Which if Borderlands 3 has also recently showed, said health bars can also be used for better information such as having it in a `shielded mode` or even special state to let a person know if they should be attacking at that point or if the boss has some hidden gimmick where its stock-piling the damage your unloading on it in a biding state that its health bar could be showing and if you do not stop shooting it, you are going to get hit by a miniature nuke as punishment for not timing when to strike. Just basically some examples of creative use of information and how to make a boss fight more exciting then straight up give it invulnerabiity phases and gating you on when to attack. Especially since a player could just gun the boss down for like 30 or 50 minutes due to all that D.R., or they could be smart and get it done in only 5-10 instead by repeatedly disabling the D.R. thru creative use of the environment or even war-frame abilities.

 

 

• Anyway kind of annoying to keep repeating but there is a difference between `TELLING A PERSON HOW TO PLAY A GAME` and `MAKING SURE THEY HAVE A PROPER TRAIL OF BREAD CRUMBS TO GET THE GIST OF IT`, because if a game has no generic basic guides on what they should expect for certain things, then they have to rely on videos/guides thru online sources to look up, which oh hey, its going to lead to subjective views anyway or explanations that likely will make the players think they need to have a lot of things before they can do the entry level on handling certain content. Because their is a type of game that is known to just let a player do whatever they want with no guidance its called a: Sandbox, and a good deal of those can get screwed over if not done properly. Warframe is not a sandbox game so clearly its better for hand rails to exist so people are not completely left in the dark on certain content, since it is not very helpful if, just like how loads of people ended up spending more time in the market-chat to make plat then actually playing the game, people would rather not have to spend more time researching & looking for explanations and looking on how to do stuff, when it would save them some trouble if they have helpful in-game explanations on how to actually play and know the basic idea on they should remember to cram Vitality and make sure to know how to build their equipment, then wondering why the fk their guns can`t kill anything because they do not properly understand how to mod their stuff, especially when things like elemental properties is not exactly easily available information in-game, without needing another player to explain it.

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Avienas