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Dear DE, make good, DIFFICULT raids. For example, as Destiny 2. Raids, this high-level content, and it NEEDS to be complicated. Game and so the easy, and with such raids, at all want hang himself.

P.S. Google translated xD

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On 2019-09-23 at 1:27 AM, Gabbynaru said:

Raids are a waste of time and nothing more. They're a very cheap and easy to implement way of "challenging" players very akin to bullet sponge enemies. They are limiting player options and playstyles to a predetermined, boring, small list of alternatives that do nothing to challenge and everything to annoy and waste time. Raids are not a good gameplay element, just a cheap one, for teams and companies with no creativity or ability to innovate. I am hoping Warframe and DE is not creatively bankrupt enough to use a 2 decade old gameplay mechanic that should have been retired with when the PS360 arrived.

Hard pass.

 

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il y a 43 minutes, Gabbynaru a dit :

Raids are a waste of time and nothing more. They're a very cheap and easy to implement way of "challenging" players very akin to bullet sponge enemies. They are limiting player options and playstyles to a predetermined, boring, small list of alternatives that do nothing to challenge and everything to annoy and waste time. Raids are not a good gameplay element, just a cheap one, for teams and companies with no creativity or ability to innovate. I am hoping Warframe and DE is not creatively bankrupt enough to use a 2 decade old gameplay mechanic that should have been retired with when the PS360 arrived.

Hard pass.

I can't tell if you're joking or not :x

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Warframe needs a good difficulty/gameplay challenge system before Raids can be seriously reconsidered. The old Raids were cakewalks once you knew the steps (which you just had to read on the wiki), and getting a team that knows how to do basic cooperation. There was rarely any risk of failure, even on the Nightmare raid, as long as you had on-par gear.

If a "difficult" Raid is just high-level enemies then no thanks. We already know that high-level Warframe enemies aren't fun to fight, they're just bullet sponges that can insta-kill you if your damage reduction goes down for more than a second. Other games have enjoyable (and popular) Raids because there's real challenge in those games; in Destiny 2 for instance, there is a real risk of dying/failing the average mission, and Raids feel good to beat because the risk of failure is tangible. Warframe needs this before Raids return.

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1 hour ago, YUNoJump said:

Warframe needs a good difficulty/gameplay challenge system before Raids can be seriously reconsidered. The old Raids were cakewalks once you knew the steps (which you just had to read on the wiki), and getting a team that knows how to do basic cooperation. There was rarely any risk of failure, even on the Nightmare raid, as long as you had on-par gear.

If a "difficult" Raid is just high-level enemies then no thanks. We already know that high-level Warframe enemies aren't fun to fight, they're just bullet sponges that can insta-kill you if your damage reduction goes down for more than a second. Other games have enjoyable (and popular) Raids because there's real challenge in those games; in Destiny 2 for instance, there is a real risk of dying/failing the average mission, and Raids feel good to beat because the risk of failure is tangible. Warframe needs this before Raids return.

What risk ? 

You cannot fail D2 raids the way you could in warframe , if wipe hapens you just go to begining of the stage while in warframe if you failed you would have to start over on top lossing raid key 

Edited by bad4youLT
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hace 14 horas, bad4youLT dijo:

What risk ? 

You cannot fail D2 raids the way you could in warframe , if wipe hapens you just go to begining of the stage while in warframe if you failed you would have to start over on top lossing raid key 

But nobody failed in Warframe, if they had 1 brain and knew how to press keys, It would be imposible to fail.

P.S: Haven't tried Destiny 2's raids (haven't gone to that point) but for what I can hear it sounds pretty fun.

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6 hours ago, DOOMPATRIOT said:

But nobody failed in Warframe, if they had 1 brain and knew how to press keys, It would be imposible to fail.

P.S: Haven't tried Destiny 2's raids (haven't gone to that point) but for what I can hear it sounds pretty fun.

Did you ever played nightmare LoR or JV ? how about public sortie spys or spys in early levels , I as vet failed arbi defense not to long ago in full squad of high mastery rank players .

When you lose in warframe you lose everything you picked up and mission rewards , this is the "risk vs reward" system in warframe .

In D2 if you would to fail nightfall , raid or anything in general worst thing what wouyld happen is you getting booted out of activity while in raids you just start over from current stage your in , all the stuff you picked up you get to keep even if you lose .

On top D2 way of difficulty is no different from WF , you just dont get to use abilitys so offten and guns in general are weaker .

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What exactly do you see as "difficult?" Gimmicks simply come down to reading them off the Wiki and Warframe's current balance point precludes the addition of high-stat enemies in such a way that you don't reduce Warframe and weapon choice down to a small handful of options.

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hace 17 horas, bad4youLT dijo:

Did you ever played nightmare LoR or JV ? how about public sortie spys or spys in early levels , I as vet failed arbi defense not to long ago in full squad of high mastery rank players .

Of course I played them and although It was only like 20 times and didn't had any prime frame in that circunstances, I never failed that (thank god, apparently).

Of course I have played public Sortie Spy, the one and only time I did that, it was a mistake.

The arbi part sounds kinda like your fault (the team can be carried by someone that actually know how to mod properly)also note that high mastery players means nothing, only that they have gone through Hydron/ESO way too much, not surprise there, unless you were in +50 wave of Defense, if that is the case then yeah it happens.

Also as I said earlier I haven't gone that far in Destiny 2, so... Yeah.

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While we are on the topic of stuff Warframe could take from destiny, I really like the concept of strikes. We actually have something similar in Warframe, the Kuva Fortress Assault mission. The only problem is, that there are just no worthwhile rewards for doing that. I'm not sure how much fun the strikes are in the long term, as I've only put around 100h into Destiny 2 so far and did around 50 Strikes, but I kinda like the longer (10-20min) mission design with a few "puzzles" and parkour elements strewn about. We have such an amazing movement system in Warframe, I wish we had more parkour elements in regular play. I really like the void parkours but there are only 3(?) and they aren't really part of the mission.

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Raids don't actually work without progression as a part of their infrastructure.

By this I mean when a Raid is introduced as Raid #1 then Raid #2, Raid #3, Raid #4 and so on must be consistent additions to the game otherwise players will simply get what they need from a given Raid leaving only currency farming players remaining which will inevitably be a very small portion of the game's playerbase. This is essentially what happened with Warframe's Raid scene and what happens with every Private MMO server.

Difficulty will also be completely absent. This is the point of "Progression Raids" you do a Raid so you have the gear and experience to learn the next one. If the next one never comes then all you do is gear alts until you're just bored and stop doing it. No matter how hard a Raid is on release repetition will inevitably win because that's all Raids really are in the end. The same repetition of tasks coordinated by a group of players with occasional gear checks.

Warframe will never have proper Raiding as DE simply couldn't keep up. I mean it's been a year and we gotten a mission and a tilset rework.

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I suppose my issue with raids is that so many games turn them into a multi-dimensional clockwork scheme. You simply need X players doing Y things in Z time to succeed, and then the only challenge stems from bullet sponging and DPS etc.

The only worthwhile system that they could implement for Warframe Raids (or raids in any game TBH) would be challenges that require some element of quick thinking, strategy etc. It'd need to be some kind of system that prevents meta builds, and gives players dynamic challenges that vary every time, so that players can't just min-max to perfectly complete their set objective.

That said, I say bring back 8-person missions as some kind of 'elite' mission system with a few different gametypes, just for the crazy experimentation if nothing else (like running 8 Steel Charges in a melee-built team with a Valk, Volt, Rhino, Excal etc)

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