Slide attack macro abuse needs to be looked at

[Ramflare]

We all know the maiming strike, whip & slide combo that completely wrecks the majority of enemies, I don't want it nerfed to oblivion but all too often in arbitrations & high level content I'll see a person with a tank frame who only moves by sliding completely wrecking everything & there are few things in the game that can compete on that level. Not to mention sliding repeatedly is one of the fastest ways to move.

My issue is; people using slide macros put in almost zero effort but they get better results and massively outpace a normal player! So why should anyone play normally when they can just spin2win? It's clearly unbalanced.

Maiming strike as a mod is fine, I wouldn't touch it but I would suggest a cooldown/stagger after 5 consecutive slide attacks or something along those lines.

This ties into difficulty, a hot topic among long term players - when the highest level content in the game can be trivialised by pressing a button and steering the camera something is very broken.

[Alcatraz]

Don't worry; soon as Melee 3.0 launches for real, melee rivens will get dispo changes that will hit so hard that you won't see these whips in use. Why? Because the whip you're talking about is almost certainly Scoliac as it has THE best riven dispo of any whip and while the weapons stats kind of suck at first, it's nothing a good riven can't fix.

Trust me, I use it myself and own 3 rivens for it. I know it's coming as does everyone else who uses whips.

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Alcatraz

[taiiat]

who says it's a Macro? :)
and Blood Rush is still the problem here, nothing else

6 minutes ago, Alcatraz said:

the whip you're talking about is almost certainly Scoliac

i mean, if we're talking about Public Missions, it's probably Atterax, who are we kidding.

[Alcatraz]

6 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i mean, if we're talking about Public Missions, it's probably Atterax, who are we kidding.

Lol you have a point. I see it all the time when running fissures for new primes. When I see them over using it, I 1 up them and stop using my guns.

Fissures is just a readily available example that comes to mind.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Alcatraz

[Oreades]

Technically speaking the macro is "allowed" because it "isn't playing the game for them" they still need to pilot it. 

Not that I'm thrilled to run into people using slide attack macros because yeah it's not super fun to play with them but they are within the letter of the law. At some point in the future that might be important to me, not the slide attack macros but some other macro related whoozle and I'd rather not throw the baby out with the bath water. 

I'm sure the assumption is going to be that I use them myself, I don't. Even tho I suppose I technically could, my mouse has enough buttons. It just seems like such a bother. Might have something to do with the week I tried to use the oll one two maiming strike combo and just hated it so much that I only kept the mod for a sake of completionism. 

[-Milmo-]

33 minutes ago, Ramflare said:

My issue is; people using slide macros put in almost zero effort but they get better results and massively outpace a normal player! So why should anyone play normally when they can just spin2win? It's clearly unbalanced.

Putting in zero effort and getting better results? Have you not played like 99% of this game? That literally describes every frame and weapon. Its called power creep and its not caused by people spinning in circles with a whip. Its solely on the fault of DE for introducing so much #*!%ing power creep, get off your high horse. Saryn takes 0 effort, Equinox takes zero effort, so does Wukong, Mirage, Chroma, Ember, Trinity, etc. If that is your major gripe about people getting rewarded for doing nothing then this game isnt for you.

[SneakyErvin]

53 minutes ago, BananaSlamJamma said:

Putting in zero effort and getting better results? Have you not played like 99% of this game? That literally describes every frame and weapon. Its called power creep and its not caused by people spinning in circles with a whip. Its solely on the fault of DE for introducing so much #*!%ing power creep, get off your high horse. Saryn takes 0 effort, Equinox takes zero effort, so does Wukong, Mirage, Chroma, Ember, Trinity, etc. If that is your major gripe about people getting rewarded for doing nothing then this game isnt for you.

That really isnt comparable, because he is talking macro user vs non-macro user really. So in your example it would be comparing a macroed Saryn vs a non-macroed Saryn, where currently one isnt even allowed. Macro usage in game was allowed because it would open up the game for people with disabilities and let them use some of the more intricate combos and movement options, however it spread fast to lazy people aswell, turning into spin to win aswell as full-auto semi weapons.

Power creep and balance is a completely different topic.

[taiiat]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Power creep and balance is a completely different topic.

isn't it the only topic? the things you're describing in no way require the use of artificial assistance to do in the first place.

[George_PPS]

If you don’t like it, just don’t use it. Why advocate nerfing something or anything or that attack style or loadout or frame or weapon if they can kill more than what you can in a mission? I bring my slide attack weapons in various missions if needed and carry all to high levels. It also benefits you and any teammates in my squad. 

[George_PPS]

8 hours ago, BananaSlamJamma said:

Putting in zero effort and getting better results? Have you not played like 99% of this game? That literally describes every frame and weapon. Its called power creep and its not caused by people spinning in circles with a whip. Its solely on the fault of DE for introducing so much #*!%ing power creep, get off your high horse. Saryn takes 0 effort, Equinox takes zero effort, so does Wukong, Mirage, Chroma, Ember, Trinity, etc. If that is your major gripe about people getting rewarded for doing nothing then this game isnt for you.

Thank you for speaking the truth. 

[Aesthier]

10 hours ago, Ramflare said:

We all know the maiming strike, whip & slide combo that completely wrecks the majority of enemies, I don't want it nerfed to oblivion but all too often in arbitrations & high level content I'll see a person with a tank frame who only moves by sliding completely wrecking everything & there are few things in the game that can compete on that level. Not to mention sliding repeatedly is one of the fastest ways to move.

My issue is; people using slide macros put in almost zero effort but they get better results and massively outpace a normal player! So why should anyone play normally when they can just spin2win? It's clearly unbalanced.

Maiming strike as a mod is fine, I wouldn't touch it but I would suggest a cooldown/stagger after 5 consecutive slide attacks or something along those lines.

This ties into difficulty, a hot topic among long term players - when the highest level content in the game can be trivialised by pressing a button and steering the camera something is very broken.

It is also very broken when to maintain that efficiency one has to resort to using macros or run the risk of injury. (Early arthritis from playing Warframe melee.)

[Klokwerkaos]

key trick to not play with people with play styles you don't like ever again:

1) put your own group together

2) play solo

3) change your attitude and say "thanks for the free loot and carry"

if you refuse to do any of those three things, the problem is you, not the game, because you have a variety of options outside of quitting.  
 

protip:

you actually don't want the game perfectly balanced, you just think you do.  instead you want your play style to be the most viable, and nobody really cares about your wants specifically.

additionally, kill slide macro and people will just use the next most effective room nuke, or whatever new thing they invent because a large chunk of vet players get to that point because they are efficient players, meaning, they will very often choose the most efficient method to do a task, and if your method isn't the most efficient (and if it's run and gun, it never will be), then you will always be frustrated by more powerful players who will vastly outperform you, so your task would be to either choose one of the three options above, or git gud, and learn the more efficient methods at play as the flavor of the week.  You will always be frustrated by players that are just more powerful than you if you continue with your current attitude.  I suggest you get over it.  No, you don't get to be as powerful as people with 5K+ in mission hours, sorry, you didn't earn that yet.  this will continue to be a problem until such time as de sees it fit to actually produce endgame content that is gated to players that are already 1 man armies and I would recommend against holding your breath for that.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[KnightOwl_]

Let them have their spin 2 win.  I mean if the player has to resort to the macro to succeed in this hilariously easy game they obviously need all the help they can get.  I’m just surprised they can stay awake. 

[Test-995]

 

15 hours ago, Ramflare said:

We all know the maiming strike, whip & slide combo that completely wrecks the majority of enemies, I don't want it nerfed to oblivion but all too often in arbitrations & high level content I'll see a person with a tank frame who only moves by sliding completely wrecking everything & there are few things in the game that can compete on that level. Not to mention sliding repeatedly is one of the fastest ways to move.

My issue is; people using slide macros put in almost zero effort but they get better results and massively outpace a normal player! So why should anyone play normally when they can just spin2win? It's clearly unbalanced.

Maiming strike as a mod is fine, I wouldn't touch it but I would suggest a cooldown/stagger after 5 consecutive slide attacks or something along those lines.

This ties into difficulty, a hot topic among long term players - when the highest level content in the game can be trivialised by pressing a button and steering the camera something is very broken.

So problem isn't the macro, but Meme strike and blood rush right?

Because it looks like that.

[Viges]

With removal of quick melee I can't even blame macro abusers. I would do it too but too lazy. With the current state of melee I think DE should have added slide attack to keybinds options, but you know DE... what they did with melee was so deeply disappointing that I have little faith in the future anyway.

[Xzorn]

It's always been a problem with additive Crit chance and Blood Rush which is entirely on DE's side.

The macro use is a somewhat grey area.

I found myself doing a lot more slide attacks with polearms since the melee bumble 3.0 part 1 due to the loss of forward momentum. They don't seem to have the best grasp on melee tactics in videos games. ie Dual Swords with 2m Reach getting a 10m AoE Slam that leaves you chasing ragdolled enemies across the map.

[40PE]

12 hours ago, taiiat said:

isn't it the only topic? the things you're describing in no way require the use of artificial assistance to do in the first place.

No. It's the question. Wherever you play fair or not. Using a macro to emulate 2-3 button pushes on repeate should be considered cheating.

Yes even in a PvE game since this is an online game. You play with people and ruining the gameplay experience for others.

The rest are different topics.

[taiiat]

31 minutes ago, 40PE said:

Using a macro to emulate 2-3 button pushes on repeate should be considered cheating.
You play with people and ruining the gameplay experience for others.

you also, seem to be unable to separate one thing from another, and blame something for something else that you don't like.
why don't you blame the source of the problem? is it because you like that source and want to keep the Damage Multipliers of it so you can use it yourself, but still have something to try and high road in some way on?

it's always gonna come back to Blood Rush, the source of any problem related to this isn't going to move. Blood Rush is the keystone to all of it, as without it working the way it does currently, all of the rest doesn't do anything and doesn't mean anything. every other piece of the 'puzzle' for this scenario can work or exist without one another, except Blood Rush. you can remove any of the other pieces and everything is still the same, but you can't with Blood Rush.

but i mean, this type of Forum complaint has never by anybody been about getting things done or solving problems. pretty far from it really, seeing as what 'the problem' and 'the solution' always is. to fire shots into the dark and hope that it changes something.

 

that is, unless all you're saying is that the sound effect of a SpinDash offends you and harms your Gameplay experience and therefore should be made quieter.

Edited October 14, 2019 by taiiat

[Birdframe_Prime]

Let's put a pin in this until the end of the month, alright?

DE have literally got a massive melee update coming out at the end of October, about two weeks away. There's probably going to be a preview of it on the next DevStream at the end of this week, and we're going to see what they've managed to do.

Once that's out, and we've seen everything that DE have done? Then if they haven't fixed the amount of spin-to-win play, we can come back and shout some more.

[Steel_Rook]

8 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

3) change your attitude and say "thanks for the free loot and carry"

See, I don't like this attitude one bit. I mean, if you're fine being carried then sure - go right ahead. But when that attitude comes from people who randomly join my mission, insist they're doing me a favour by actively preventing me from participating my mission, insist I should be grateful because they're being so generous and then suggest I quit if I have a problem with it... Yeah, I have a problem with that. I realise that a large proportion of this game's playerbase is made up of jaded veterans who don't actually enjoy it and strive to play as little of it as possible while still engaging in the habit-forming Skinner box conditioning, but that's not where I personally sit. I play Warframe to actually play the core game mechanics and people who insist that they're doing me a favour by preventing me from doing so aren't the kind of people I'm going to encourage, much less "thank."

Balance issues and such notwithstanding, I'd strongly advise against asserting that you're helping people by playing their missions for them.

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, taiiat said:

isn't it the only topic? the things you're describing in no way require the use of artificial assistance to do in the first place.

Obviously it isnt the only topic, since this one isnt about power creep or balance but instead about macro abuse.

Never said it was required either. However macroing several commands into one makes it more efficient than not doing so. It isnt about what can be done without the assistance or not, if it was, we could discard the whole idea of it being there to help those with disabilities too since they can do it without them too, just much much harder than someone else. Which in reality is the exact same as between a non-disabled player versus and non-disabled macro using player. Even if it isnt hard, it is still "harder" and requires more from the player than it does clicking a single button, it also takes more time to pull off while the macro is perfectly timed always.

Even when you can bind semi-auto to the mouse wheel, a macro will still do it better and far more controlled while less input from the player is required aswell.

[taiiat]

11 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Even when you can bind semi-auto to the mouse wheel, a macro will still do it better and far more controlled while less input from the player is required aswell.

and everything you said there is accurate.... but what of it? what is the significance of it.
i don't think there is any.

[Chaemyerelis]

Well it should be gone when melee 3.0 hits in 2030.

[Klokwerkaos]

14 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

See, I don't like this attitude one bit. I mean, if you're fine being carried then sure - go right ahead. But when that attitude comes from people who randomly join my mission, insist they're doing me a favour by actively preventing me from participating my mission, insist I should be grateful because they're being so generous and then suggest I quit if I have a problem with it... Yeah, I have a problem with that. I realise that a large proportion of this game's playerbase is made up of jaded veterans who don't actually enjoy it and strive to play as little of it as possible while still engaging in the habit-forming Skinner box conditioning, but that's not where I personally sit. I play Warframe to actually play the core game mechanics and people who insist that they're doing me a favour by preventing me from doing so aren't the kind of people I'm going to encourage, much less "thank."

Balance issues and such notwithstanding, I'd strongly advise against asserting that you're helping people by playing their missions for them.

I mean, that's your prerogitive... lots of players are happy to have their missions complete for them... more than not in my experience.  that said I don't really play saryn, but even then players have less chance against my better load outs.

that said, if YOU want to play a specific way, maybe YOU should put your own group together with people that like to play that way.

pugs have two rules:
1) you don't decide who you get to play with for better or worse

2) because of number 1, you go to carry or you go to fail

these are not something you can argue with.  thus many people go to carry, and saryn is a more accessible way to do that for most players.  this is the only reason people cry about her so much, because they see this more than the other vastly superior methods of carrying.

overall it's just a bs complaint by players that want everyone to play their way, and not the way they want to play... without realizing that in a pug, they don't control that.  they instead demand everyone caters to them, and it's all crybaby nonsense.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[justin0620]

On 2019-10-13 at 11:32 PM, taiiat said:

i mean, if we're talking about Public Missions, it's probably Atterax, who are we kidding.

Secura Lecta has credit multiplyer, if it is not end game content I prefer secura lecta over atterax.