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Otakuwolf

Idea for a new Frost '2'

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Frost has been the first warframe I would define as a main, and as time went by his 2 became lesser and lesser effective, and as it is right now is "fine" at best and only at lower levels.

Because of this, I have an idea for a different and more "tank" oriented ability: Ice Aura, which would create a freezing aura similar to the sentinels perk, but with the added benefit of also increasing Frost armor value. Range and duration would be increased by the respective mods, while armor increase would be affected by power strenght. The ability would also synergize with Frost 3, as the snow globe hp pool is affected by his armor value, which would be increased by the new ability.

Thoughts ?

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I always just wanted it to freeze the ground and leave the spikes for X duration.
So when enemies walk on it they slip and fall onto the spikes like a comedy.

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4 minutes ago, Otakuwolf said:

-snip-

It’s a nice idea, I’m interested. How would you make this more distinctive from Avalanche though? The base ability and it’s augment seem to serve a similar purpose.

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Well i have always tough that Ice Wave would be better if they make it so the Wave of ice knocks enemies up or backwards. I mean come on your throwing very sharp giant icicles at the enemy i would expect at the very least to push enemies somewhat.

Your Ice Aura is interesting tough a bit TOO simple, i was thinking maybe instead of an aura maybe creates a patch of ice that increases allies Armor and Slows down enemies? kinda like Oberon's Hallowed Ground but focusing on giving Armor.

4 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

I always just wanted it to freeze the ground and leave the spikes for X duration.
So when enemies walk on it they slip and fall onto the spikes like a comedy.

Wait what if you cover the ground in Ice Spikes, enemies who walk in it take a little bit of Cold damage and are slowed, however if the enemy is knocked down they are afflicted with a Slash Proc?

Edited by The_Sharp_Demonologist

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Id really like forst to be better outside of globe defense and press 4 to freeeze and shatter enemies. Im a real fan of sub zero and I like the element of ice but frost is not good enough as I said its only his 3 and 4 that make his kit so making somethign better for his 2 would be good as for his 1 its not bad for a 1 but I feel like there could be something else done to that like while charging a shield of ice is formed and when enemies shoot bullets latch to the ice and when the ability is released he could shatter the ice and some of the bullets go thowards where the player i looking it, of cource that will change his ability somewhat and make it defensive. And on top of the shield when it shatters he throws his current snow ball at an enemy

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11 minutes ago, swiftasacoursing said:

It’s a nice idea, I’m interested. How would you make this more distinctive from Avalanche though? The base ability and it’s augment seem to serve a similar purpose.

The icy avalance is based on the number of enemies hit, this "new" 2 would provide a set armor value affected by power strenght

11 minutes ago, The_Sharp_Demonologist said:

Your Ice Aura is interesting tough a bit TOO simple, i was thinking maybe instead of an aura maybe creates a patch of ice that increases allies Armor and Slows down enemies? kinda like Oberon's Hallowed Ground but focusing on giving Armor.

Thing is, you would be forced to stay around the ice patch instead of just giving yourself a buff period and move freely from one point to another to drop bubbles or do whatever. Plus, Oberon would become lesser viable since Frost is already a preferable warframe over Oberon in most cases.

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4 minutes ago, Lazarow said:

Id really like forst to be better outside of globe defense and press 4 to freeeze and shatter enemies. Im a real fan of sub zero and I like the element of ice but frost is not good enough as I said its only his 3 and 4 that make his kit so making somethign better for his 2 would be good as for his 1 its not bad for a 1 but I feel like there could be something else done to that like while charging a shield of ice is formed and when enemies shoot bullets latch to the ice and when the ability is released he could shatter the ice and some of the bullets go thowards where the player i looking it, of cource that will change his ability somewhat and make it defensive. And on top of the shield when it shatters he throws his current snow ball at an enemy

Tbh i have no problem with his 1, is a nice "turn off that heavy bombard/napalm/whatever heavy" ability... MAYBE give it armor strip like his 4 ? So you can use it when you either wouldn't want to waste energy to press 4 or you don't have enough energy for a full 4.

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2 minutes ago, Otakuwolf said:

Thing is, you would be forced to stay around the ice patch instead of just giving yourself a buff period and move freely from one point to another to drop bubbles or do whatever. Plus, Oberon would become lesser viable since Frost is already a preferable warframe over Oberon in most cases.

Not really? they are two completely different warframes, Frost offers one of the best Defense kits around while Oberon is an excellent support giving armor, Heal over time and spreading Radiation procs.

If anything Frost and Oberon work well together.

And for the patch you would be just doing the same you always do but better, indefences Frost usually stays around the snow glove to take out any enemies who might enter to attack the objective or to refresh the globe, with the Ice patch you would be basically extending your area of influence without having to make a bigger snow globe since you could spread it on a high transit area and either stay inside the globe and snipe slowed enemies or be around the patch and keep knocking enemies down.

Or you know grab a high status chance weapon with Blast on it.

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2 minutes ago, The_Sharp_Demonologist said:

Not really? they are two completely different warframes, Frost offers one of the best Defense kits around while Oberon is an excellent support giving armor, Heal over time and spreading Radiation procs.

If anything Frost and Oberon work well together.

And for the patch you would be just doing the same you always do but better, indefences Frost usually stays around the snow glove to take out any enemies who might enter to attack the objective or to refresh the globe, with the Ice patch you would be basically extending your area of influence without having to make a bigger snow globe since you could spread it on a high transit area and either stay inside the globe and snipe slowed enemies or be around the patch and keep knocking enemies down.

Or you know grab a high status chance weapon with Blast on it.

I still feel like having a self-buff would be better since Frost has already one "static" ability with his 3. Your idea would actually work better as an augment for that rather than a whole new ability, since all it would do is add the patch within the globe range without spending more energy.

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I hate his passive, I play Frost a Lot, and his passive is awful, if he would regain energy for every enemy he kills while they are frozen, that could be something.

The rest of the kit, is not bad, except because the Ice wave Impedance buff should be Innate to the ability (some people say, I won't say no to a Quality of Life Buff)

Edited by Jcyrano

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Frost 2 sounds like a low budget sequel to a weird survival movie.

The only thing that could be changed to be remotely useful is his passive. Unless you're facing the infested, you'll be shot at most of the time anyways. Something that enhances his defensive capabilities would be nice, but I don't know what.

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I use frost to solo interceptions and sometimes lower level defenses (high range avalanche nuking). I can't remember the last time I bothered to cast his 1 or 2 outside of using his 1 to remove a globe. His 2 looks cool, but it doesn't serve any useful purpose at all. Avalanche is a better damage dealing ability + reduces armor and has a CC and can have a very large radius and hit enemies out of line of sight. 

I'd be fine with them replacing his 2 with a defensive buff/aura (as long as it wasn't a constant energy drain). That is something he currently lacks so it would be a nice addition to his kit. 

If they wanted they could merge his current 2 into his 1 in some way so it wasn't lost entirely (and maybe give his 1 a purpose besides popping globes in the process). IE: if you hit an already frozen target with freeze, ice waves erupt from the ground in ?all? directions surrounding the target. It would still be redundant with avalanche, but it would be a lot cheaper and look cool without wasting an entire ability slot. 

edit: another alternative idea to preserve ice wave after changing his 2 would be to change his passive so that whenever an enemy frozen by frost dies, ice waves erupt in all directions (maybe with a short internal cooldown if it was too intense in dense maps like onslaught)

Edited by Borg1611

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Ugh... Ice Wave Impedance is pretty good.

I never understood why players used his Snow Globe Augment when you can manually eject enemies from the globe by re-casting and Ice Wave Augment prevents them from even getting that close. Ice Wave Impedance is esp strong against infested as CC since Disruptors cannot mitigate it's potency being an elemental status.

Does his 2 require the augment to be good? Yea but he's hardly the only frame.
I'd rather have Ice Wave Impedance and reduce damage intake by 50% for everyone than near useless armor though.
If anything his 1st ability is probably the most useless. Outside breaking Globes there's no reason to use it over Ice Wave.

Edited by Xzorn

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I just want spikes that stay for a few seconds and cause slash procs bec the ability says its razor sharp

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2 hours ago, KenthNisshoku said:

I just want spikes that stay for a few seconds and cause slash procs bec the ability says its razor sharp

Sounds logical based on the visuals and ability description. I agree.

16 hours ago, Otakuwolf said:

Ice Aura, which would create a freezing aura similar to the sentinels perk, but with the added benefit of also increasing Frost armor value. Range and duration would be increased by the respective mods, while armor increase would be affected by power strenght. The ability would also synergize with Frost 3, as the snow globe hp pool is affected by his armor value, which would be increased by the new ability.

Should just be a new passive for Frost. Name it.... Lingering Chill? His current passive is almost never in a situation where it'd make a meaningful difference - except against maybe the Infested. New passive can be based on your idea, give him a meter where the more ice abilities are used, the colder the temperature gets around Frost, granting perks to himself and allies. Perks would be armor for self and allies, and slowing aura on enemies. Higher the meter, the more armor and slow percentage. Maybe up to 50% more for armor, 25% for slowing? Range could be affinity radius? 

His current 2 is not bad, better than his current 1, in my opinion... which right now exists mostly to pop his own Bubbles.

That being said, using the augment for Frost's 4, Avalanche, you can give yourself and allies some HP damage absorption, which is a bit similar to your idea. But they could improve Avalanche's augment to give armor also, for added synergy with bubbles.

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3 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Ugh... Ice Wave Impedance is pretty good.

I never understood why players used his Snow Globe Augment when you can manually eject enemies from the globe by re-casting and Ice Wave Augment prevents them from even getting that close. Ice Wave Impedance is esp strong against infested as CC since Disruptors cannot mitigate it's potency being an elemental status.

Does his 2 require the augment to be good? Yea but he's hardly the only frame.
I'd rather have Ice Wave Impedance and reduce damage intake by 50% for everyone than near useless armor though.
If anything his 1st ability is probably the most useless. Outside breaking Globes there's no reason to use it over Ice Wave.

I'm interested, what do you mean by Disruptors ? Demolishers ? Do you mean his 2 can slow them down ?

I've been looking for means to block/slow down, and the wiki is sometimes wrong or "not up-to-date"

Frost's snowglobe is a bad idea in Disruption (you can't shoot from the outside) but if his 2 is good, I'll try him

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13 minutes ago, Tatann said:

I'm interested, what do you mean by Disruptors ? Demolishers ? Do you mean his 2 can slow them down ?

I've been looking for means to block/slow down, and the wiki is sometimes wrong or "not up-to-date"

Frost's snowglobe is a bad idea in Disruption (you can't shoot from the outside) but if his 2 is good, I'll try him

 

Infested Ancient Disruptors. They reduce the effectiveness of CC abilities and dispell themselves + everything around them. Doesn't work for Ice Wave Impedance since it's producing the Cold status effect and not directly causing CC. Just reinforcing how it's especially strong against Infested since they counter most CC abilities.

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59 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

Sounds logical based on the visuals and ability description. I agree.

Should just be a new passive for Frost. Name it.... Lingering Chill? His current passive is almost never in a situation where it'd make a meaningful difference - except against maybe the Infested. New passive can be based on your idea, give him a meter where the more ice abilities are used, the colder the temperature gets around Frost, granting perks to himself and allies. Perks would be armor for self and allies, and slowing aura on enemies. Higher the meter, the more armor and slow percentage. Maybe up to 50% more for armor, 25% for slowing? Range could be affinity radius? 

His current 2 is not bad, better than his current 1, in my opinion... which right now exists mostly to pop his own Bubbles.

That being said, using the augment for Frost's 4, Avalanche, you can give yourself and allies some HP damage absorption, which is a bit similar to your idea. But they could improve Avalanche's augment to give armor also, for added synergy with bubbles.

The advantage of Icy Avalanche, besides the flat bonus HP, is it acts like Iron Skin : it prevents status (slash, toxic, ...) and knockdowns

At first I was trying to get as much HP as possible (so range and strength), then I realised what mattered the most was the status/knockdown protection and I regularly cast his 4 just to get a few hundreds points of "icy armor"

Also I like your idea of passive aura, but I think it should be a flat armor boost (e.g. +200 armor) instead of a percentage. A percentage is better on tanks (but they're already tanky and can benefit from Adaptation) but a flat bonus is better on squishies (like Oberon's bonus armor) and IMHO Frost is like a big brother, protecting the squishies (and objectives) with a barrier (snowglobe) or CC (avalanche, ice wave, freeze). Icy Avalanche is another example of this role of protector.

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20 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Infested Ancient Disruptors. They reduce the effectiveness of CC abilities and dispell themselves + everything around them. Doesn't work for Ice Wave Impedance since it's producing the Cold status effect and not directly causing CC. Just reinforcing how it's especially strong against Infested since they counter most CC abilities.

Thanks for the clarification, I'll still try his 2 in Disruption with the augment though, see if it works on Demolishers

I know Nova's 4 works but it slows down the general pace of the mission too much

Also, like you said, since the slow effect comes from the cold proc, it could work even when the enemy has the "ability resistance" buff

Edited by Tatann

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4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I never understood why players used his Snow Globe Augment when you can manually eject enemies from the globe by re-casting and Ice Wave Augment prevents them from even getting that close. Ice Wave Impedance is esp strong against infested as CC since Disruptors cannot mitigate it's potency being an elemental status.

Because you spend more energy, which could be used to cast something else more useful, like a 4 or a brand new globe in a new position if you need to.

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

His current 2 is not bad, better than his current 1, in my opinion... which right now exists mostly to pop his own Bubbles.

Sorry but, no, his 2 is "not bad" only against trash mobs, and even then doesen't go beyond the "not bad". Even talking about it's augment, you're better off equipping Oberon, which Hallowed Ground has better CC capability and damage over time than Frost 2 + augment, without even needing one in first place.

And his 1 is fine, is a low cost ability that turns off one enemy regardless of it's level. That can be very effective if you think about it, even mobs such as superhigh level bombards become useless ice statues with it, and all for a mere 25 (or less) energy. The only thing it would be missing is being 100% effective against demolishers (atm it only slows them down), then it would be just perfect.

 

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I think Ice Wave should do more than just a bit of damage and a conical Cold proc.

Cause it to form razor-sharp icicles on enemies the wave hits. Killing enemies with these icicles causes them to dart out, dealing Cold and Puncture damage and proc.

Icicled enemies count as a valid surface or obstacle for Snow Globe's initial cast, so if enemies frozen by Snow Globe are thrown into icicled enemies, they suffer percent hitpoint damage as though they slammed into a wall. That same amount of damage is also dealt to the icicled enemy the frozen enemy slammed into.

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