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CalmClouds

Chat bubbles in hub areas. (relay chat)

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I like hanging about Cetus and Fortuna, watching people go about their business and admiring or cringe at their frame fashion sense. It makes the world feel active and alive; a feeling that you couldn't get prior to those open worlds. However, I feel like I don't have the right tools to socialize with people effectively, despite me wanting to reach out. Private messaging works, but it's annoying to do and you can only talk with one person at a time. The relay chat is pretty neat, but people rarely notice it, and even if it is noticed, you can rarely figure out who it is that's talking to you. It feels vague and impersonal.

Chat bubbles wouldn't simply make the speaker immediately identifiable and the conversation personal, since you'd be reading text while looking at the face of the person that's speaking to you.

 

 

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I feel chat bubbles would be just spamming me since I talk to noone

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... Did you hear about a technological marvel called "Chat Window"?

32 minutes ago, CalmClouds said:

relay chat

You did, right? Chat bubbles are fine for a game with an isometric perspective, like Ragnarok Online (Don't really know if that one has chat bubbles, but I'm the kind of person that prefers functionality over beautification), but they aren't fine on a game where everything is at the same perspective level as you, where 60 or 80 male and/or female players are talking at the same time, covering your face (and everything else presented to you by the camera) with chat bubbles at an equally same time, blocking your sight of everything in front of you.

 

... I prefer functionality over beauty. The chat window provides all that you would need for a simple chat, without cluttering your face with unnecessary stuff. Player names already are cluttering the view somewhat, but it doesn't block what you're seeing. Chat bubbles would, because to make them stand out from the names, they will need to have a darkened background... One chat bubble? doesn't make much of a difference... 5 or 7 on the same relative spot? bubble background goes from darkened to pitch black.

 

Want to see the player you're chatting with? No problem, meet them at a designated spot and/or invite them to squad if necessary. The Chat Window has it all.

Edited by Uhkretor

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There can be an option to turn them off for antisocial people like you. Besides, why would people run into the problem of stacking the chat bubbles on top of each other? When would that ever happen? I don’t get it. This works in literally every 3D mmorpg ever.

Edited by CalmClouds

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I have a specific problem with this, and it's very simply... well...

Can you read anything here? Accurately? Clearly?

Spoiler

Y8MemJD.jpg

Even with speech bubbles, this would just be a mess.

Nobody would be able to read anything but the nearest one, and even worse than that, the relays and other social hubs don't even accurately load in your avatar half the time. I spent a good 10 minutes on an update night sitting where I thought I was clear of everyone else, just waiting for RedText, only for another person to suddenly pop into visibility as somebody else obviously left the relay and the game allowed the assets to load for me. As they were merged into my body in a different pose it was quite disturbing.

And yes, that's a server-side communication function, not client side, so don't start on me with my settings.

Given that kind of peculiarity in Warframe's servers, I don't think that the system could even be relied upon to load in your speech bubbles correctly...

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Is that picture from some player event? Why are you deliberately trying to present that false narrative? 

Chat bubbles have been used in 3d mmos since 3d mmos were a thing. Have you two ever played any? Why do you seem to believe that players would unavoidably stack on top of each other like that in normal play? It just doesn’t happen. It’s never a problem.

I’m not a programmer, but aren’t UI elements client side? Why can’t you just turn off the UI while still receiving messages just like you do now?

I honestly don’t understand where these bizarre objections are coming from. Chat bubbles are a tried and tested feature. A staple in pretty much every online game for the past 15 years at least.

Edited by CalmClouds
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10 hours ago, CalmClouds said:

 

Is that picture from some player event?

 

No, that’s just an update, people in the relays colour themselves red for RedText. Why do you think that there are 30 to 50 instanced servers per region when something like Baro happens?

If you load into an instance that’s not marked ‘calm’ this is fairly standard.

Has been as long as the Relays have existed.

To be clear, this is the Relay, these are not classified as ‘normal play’ and players stack up on each other all the time because DE have done two things to encourage it; first there are no collisions, second talking to a vendor or other NPC causes any players between the camera and the vendor to de-spawn.

Also, resources are handled client side, but player customisations are handled by the server, the server has to first get what, out of the literally millions of possible combinations of cosmetics and colours, that player is actually using in order to tell your machine what to render. While it’s updating positions and actions of players in real time, this can cause the server to not tell your machine to render objects until all data is collected from multiple other clients simultaneously. I’m not a programmer, I just asked one the question ‘why do I keep seeing players pop in or out in the Relays, and why do a lot of them start off looking like glowing blue Excals?’

I’m not objecting to the idea, all I’m pointing out is that Warframe doesn’t run like the other RPGs we’ve all played. It’s a custom engine with different rules and mistakes were made by the team which have led them in different directions to other RPGs as a result.

There may be more difficulty implementing chat bubbles than you think because even the way DE implemented ‘floating text instructions’ into the game is weird and different to the way I’ve seen other games do it.

That’s all I’m saying, and I’ll thank you to not accuse me of trying to create a false narrative when all I’m doing is pointing out what I see as a legitimate problem that will hinder the plan.

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"Is that picture from some player event?"
 

"No, it's just from a player event that happens specifically when an update is about to hit."

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11 hours ago, CalmClouds said:

I honestly don’t understand where these bizarre objections are coming from. Chat bubbles are a tried and tested feature. A staple in pretty much every online game for the past 15 years at least.

Nothing bizzare about it, really. Chat bubbles = extra clutter on the screen and you are the first person I've ever seen actually wanting chat bubbles in a game. And yes, I play MMOs pretty much daily.

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59 minutes ago, CalmClouds said:

"Is that picture from some player event?"
 

"No, it's just from a player event that happens specifically when an update is about to hit."

Followed by “this is completely normal on any relay that’s not marked ‘calm’”

Crowding like this is completely normal, and relays fill up daily. In fact, the RedText stuff is usually well organised, people space out more, the regular Relay and Cetus hubs crowd together even worse.

But be my guest and cherry pick. It just means you don’t actually want to recognise problems and show how you would work around them and that you’re more interested in trying to find zinger comebacks.

Again, for the hard of reading; I’m not against your idea, I’m presenting a known and recurring problem for you to actually consider and find an answer for.

If you can’t actually do that, then too bad.

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You did follow up by saying that relays do fill up daily, but it doesn't change the fact that the picture is misleading. I'm not convinced in the slightest that what you're trying to present as a common issue, would actually be an issue at all. People who clutter around vendors are too busy looking at their UI instead of chatting.

You are the one trying to convince me that a staple system in MMOs is somehow problematic. The burden of proof is on you, not me. All I have to do is point at the hundreds of MMOs that also have big hubs with people cluttering on top of each other for various activities, and then point out how chat bubbles had never been a problem there. Ever. What you have to do is somehow build up a case to convince me that somehow all those MMOs have done it wrong, and all you've presented so far is a misleading snapshot. You have to somehow prove that the cluttering of players is a common occurrence, unavoidable or at least hard to avoid, and would somehow coincide with the player attempts to chat.

I don't need to find an answer for a non-problem.

Edited by CalmClouds

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5 hours ago, CalmClouds said:

You are the one trying to convince me that a staple system in MMOs is somehow problematic.

No, I’m pointing out a problem. Singular. And pretty exclusive to Warframe in how the game handles players in its public spaces.

I will endeavour to screenshot some more current crowds, however, when I can. The image was just from a google search.

Also, if you’re actually gong to argue this much about a topic, please have the courtesy to actually quote or mention the person you’re attempting to talk to, only you are subscribed to your own thread.

::Edit::

You know something? I stand corrected.

DE have already implemented the equivalent of chat bubbles. And to me, they're pretty rubbish.

Head on in to Maroo's Bazaar and you'll see exactly how DE have implemented them. Anyone actively seeking a trade has an item list over their head, it works almost exactly like a chat bubble, and even gets more details as you walk closer to it, so a simple list goes to icons to show they're offering a mod, or a set of parts, or a Riven.

The essential problems with them are this: DE has implemented a 'clutter' feature where if you're standing even a few paces away from the person in question, their bubble fades out and then vanishes completely after you're about 10-12m away in game lengths, and the 'bubble' is exactly as transparent as the text in the earlier shot I linked. Here's a shot for you from my discovering it, complete with glowing blue Excalibur because the server can't actually load in that person's gear for me to render it:

Spoiler

EHBBz8hWkAAKTmW?format=jpg&name=4096x409

So yeah, DE did implement in these kind of bubbles.

But not for chat.

Which begs the question... why not?

If they can do it? Why haven't they?

A mystery for the ages.

Edited by Birdframe_Prime
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On 2019-10-14 at 4:32 PM, CalmClouds said:

I like hanging about Cetus and Fortuna, watching people go about their business and admiring or cringe at their frame fashion sense. It makes the world feel active and alive; a feeling that you couldn't get prior to those open worlds. However, I feel like I don't have the right tools to socialize with people effectively, despite me wanting to reach out. Private messaging works, but it's annoying to do and you can only talk with one person at a time. The relay chat is pretty neat, but people rarely notice it, and even if it is noticed, you can rarely figure out who it is that's talking to you. It feels vague and impersonal.

Chat bubbles wouldn't simply make the speaker immediately identifiable and the conversation personal, since you'd be reading text while looking at the face of the person that's speaking to you.

 

 

I could be wrong but I don't think that you normally see most of the people in the relay with you at the same time. 

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On 2019-10-14 at 4:32 PM, CalmClouds said:

I like hanging about Cetus and Fortuna, watching people go about their business and admiring or cringe at their frame fashion sense. It makes the world feel active and alive; a feeling that you couldn't get prior to those open worlds. However, I feel like I don't have the right tools to socialize with people effectively, despite me wanting to reach out. Private messaging works, but it's annoying to do and you can only talk with one person at a time. The relay chat is pretty neat, but people rarely notice it, and even if it is noticed, you can rarely figure out who it is that's talking to you. It feels vague and impersonal.

Chat bubbles wouldn't simply make the speaker immediately identifiable and the conversation personal, since you'd be reading text while looking at the face of the person that's speaking to you.

 

 

Are you suggesting that we dethrone the Region Chat meta for a more interactive and social version of communication inside of relays?? What a preposterous and barbaric idea, socializing with other players in a more personal level via Relays, disgyustink!  /s

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