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Destiny 2 and Warframe: COMPETITION IS GOOD!


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8 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And Shadowkeep has been in the making since Forsaken, with little to no useful content in between

There's the entire forsaken annual pass DLC. There's the black armory, Season of the drifter and Menagerie. All of which are free now with "New Light". Saying there's no content between Forsaken and Shadowkeep is factually wrong. 

 

Just as if I were to say there's no real content in Warframe since The War Within, because Cetus and Fortuna's plotlines have been utterly meaningless to the overarching story of the tenno. Take Shadowkeep's story and compare it to the essentially one step quests/teasers for New War and you'll have the same amount of playtime. 

Edited by Fire2box
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8 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

You speak as if that was the only update worth mattering. What we had ever since then:

Fortuna. (Story, more guns, new Warframe, new syndicates, new means of transport...)

Profit-Taker. (New Boss raid-ish type)

Nightwave (Story)

Exploiter (New boss puzzle type-ish)

Plains of Eidolon Remaster (QoL)

Jovian Concord (Story, More guns, new Warframe, QoL on Jupiter)

Saint of Altra (Snips of Story, new Warframe, more guns)

And some other things in-between like Tenno Reinforcements, Primes, tweaks...

We have been waiting for Railjack for near 18 months? True.

Did we have things between it and the announcement they are making it? Also true.

Those 18 months were not empty of things.

What story in fortuna? It impacts nothing outside of itself. 

Profit taker. The boss that had such bad rewards DE quickly patched it to give credits? 

nightwave, yeah the battlepass system that inspires FOMO. The wolf's story was okay. I still have no idea what the hell Arlo was about and honestly after part 2 I stopped caring. 

Exploiter. Throw balls at boss event. It was good for a day then you are left to farm it if you want those glowy step things. 

plains of eidolon remaster. More trees that block amp shots when fighting eidolons, hooray! Also comes with "Crafted arcanes are now pre-crafted, a mini boss now drops all the resources you need so you don't have to farm like a chump, cetus wisps are now functionally useless."

Jovian Concord gave us Vor Monologue 2.0 and a new frame. The boss is remarkably easy vs the orb fights. 

Saint of altra. it's just quality of life and a new frame. A new frame that was supposed to come with it's friend but DE botched it somehow. 

It's just been a bunch of weapons and hints at how DE's going to develop the tenno's story. It's the bare minimum and players are obviously feeling it. If you're happy with this content, that's great. There should be no way for me to minimize that. 

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18 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

There's the entire forsaken annual pass DLC. There's the black armory, Season of the drifter and Menagerie. All of which are free now with "New Light". Saying there's no content between Forsaken and Shadowkeep is factually wrong. 

 

Just as if I were to say there's no real content in Warframe since The War Within, because Cetus and Fortuna's plotlines have been utterly meaningless to the overarching story of the tenno. Take Shadowkeep's story and compare it to the essentially one step quests/teasers for New War and you'll have the same amount of playtime. 

And all that is payed for and part of expansions. So no, there were actually no content in between because it was all obtained through staggered expansion releases. I dont really care if they are free now, since that wasnt what this was about, it was about what had been released more or less for free in between the completion of expansions, which in short would be nothing then.

I guess that also means that peoples current concerns regarding future Destiny 2 releases are viable, since they likely wont releases anything for free and have everything tied to staggered expansions only, like they have in the past.

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22 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

What story in fortuna? It impacts nothing outside of itself. 

Profit taker. The boss that had such bad rewards DE quickly patched it to give credits? 

nightwave, yeah the battlepass system that inspires FOMO. The wolf's story was okay. I still have no idea what the hell Arlo was about and honestly after part 2 I stopped caring. 

Exploiter. Throw balls at boss event. It was good for a day then you are left to farm it if you want those glowy step things. 

plains of eidolon remaster. More trees that block amp shots when fighting eidolons, hooray! Also comes with "Crafted arcanes are now pre-crafted, a mini boss now drops all the resources you need so you don't have to farm like a chump, cetus wisps are now functionally useless."

Jovian Concord gave us Vor Monologue 2.0 and a new frame. The boss is remarkably easy vs the orb fights. 

Saint of altra. it's just quality of life and a new frame. A new frame that was supposed to come with it's friend but DE botched it somehow. 

It's just been a bunch of weapons and hints at how DE's going to develop the tenno's story. It's the bare minimum and players are obviously feeling it. If you're happy with this content, that's great. There should be no way for me to minimize that. 

Those things happened, they were added to the game in those 18 months, either you like them or not is irrelevant. The game was not stagnant during that time.

All I see you trying the dismiss everything I pointed out.

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44 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Those things happened, they were added to the game in those 18 months, either you like them or not is irrelevant. The game was not stagnant during that time.

All I see you trying the dismiss everything I pointed out.

When did I say they didn't happen? I'm pointing out they haven't added anything worthwhile. Frames, yeah those come out every 3 months otherwise DE would have nothing to prime out in about 12-15 months. 

Storywise nothing's really been going on asides quick glimpses. 

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1 hour ago, Fire2box said:

There's the entire forsaken annual pass DLC. There's the black armory, Season of the drifter and Menagerie. All of which are free now with "New Light". Saying there's no content between Forsaken and Shadowkeep is factually wrong. 

Which costed you $30 means if you didn't pay, you have no content whatsoever from September 4, 2018 to October 1, 2019 after forsaken so your "factually wrong" is wrong

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6 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Which costed you $30 means if you didn't pay, you have no content whatsoever from September 4, 2018 to October 1, 2019 after forsaken so your "factually wrong" is wrong

Yes, most video games costs money. 

So far I've spent less on destiny then I have Warframe. 

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11 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

Yes, most video games costs money. 

So far I've spent less on destiny then I have Warframe. 

So far, and how long this "so far" is? Because I'm still staying at spending 0 on warframe but getting forced to shell out at least $10 just to get minuscule new content, $25 - $60 for the story in destiny so I'm not going

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2 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Let me ask you this: Did you start Destiny from scratch? From your post, you did.

Now, lets reverse the positions, if you played D2 for thousands of hours. Then picked up Warframe as it is now. Without prior plays.

Would this statement be reversed?

I'm not being sarcastic or anything negative. I want you to reflect on that for a moment and tell me what you think.

Although: Ya, we need some sorth of competition in here that is not a leaderboard. I think I once made an idea about making Solar Rail Conflicts be PvE against Grineer/Corpus and have the clan/alliance that defended it best get freatured.

Yes I started from scratch, because of this I'm not counting the story or content between them, I'm counting the gameplay, the way the planets work there against how they are in Warframe.

The one thing that really struck me is how alive the environment feels on Destiny compared to Warframe's Open World equivalents. There is always something going on somewhere on the map and you don't find yourself traveling long distances where you're only checking out the environment. Not to mention the fact that it's not squad-based, you can find random players doing different things and join together for events without needing to form a party.

The above is something that, if DE could do as well, would be huge. Yes I am aware it requires servers, yes I am aware servers are expensive, yes I am aware the spaghetti code of warframe will make that extremely hard to do; still, it should be something they attempt sometime in the future, if not the server based-truly-open-world, then the ones we have really need to be brought to life. Hostile wild-life roaming PoE and OV would be a starting point, dynamic events, that you can opt to launch or ignore, with meaningful rewards to follow.

I'm gonna ignore the Conclave - Crucible debate as WF doesn't really work with traditional PvP and I don't really know what could work here and be enjoyable (Maybe PvPvE).

Game balance is one giant can of worms I don't feel like opening right now, I'll just say I like the somewhat squishy with a passive delayed regen system they have in place more than our get oneshot or be a literal god system.

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4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Not only content, but you are effectively locked out of 75% or so of the exotic loot available in the game aswell as a subclass for each class. So yea it is very much free to ry and nothing more.

Wow. I had a feeling that Destiny will fail to become a f2p game. Tho I expected some other p2w type of deal.

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1 hour ago, 844448 said:

So far, and how long this "so far" is? Because I'm still staying at spending 0 on warframe but getting forced to shell out at least $10 just to get minuscule new content, $25 - $60 for the story in destiny so I'm not going

That's cool. You don't have to play what you don't want to play. Lots of Warframe players are currently doing just that. 

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3 hours ago, Fire2box said:

Just as if I were to say there's no real content in Warframe since The War Within, because Cetus and Fortuna's plotlines have been utterly meaningless to the overarching story of the tenno. Take Shadowkeep's story and compare it to the essentially one step quests/teasers for New War and you'll have the same amount of playtime. 

Not everything has to be about Tenno , things are happening outside of our story. Cetus , Fortuna & Nightwave stories help world building.

Edit :

Wolf's story introduced us Alad's deal with sentients and amalgam projects.

Cetus was always tied to our story with Tower , Nexus and Pure(?) Kuva that could give Sentients ability to reproduce. Now Sentients are coming to siege the Cetus and Tower for its kuva.

3 hours ago, Fire2box said:

nightwave, yeah the battlepass system that inspires FOMO.

Funny thing is that Destiny 2 is built upon FOMO tactic and they just reinforced it with Season of Undying , yet you seem to praise it.

Edited by Aeon94
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12 minutes ago, Aeon94 said:

Not everything has to be about Tenno , things are happening outside of our story. Cetus , Fortuna & Nightwave stories help world building.

Funny thing is that Destiny 2 is built upon FOMO tactic and they just reinforced it with Season of Undying , yet you seem to praise it.

They aren't impactful to any story outside of their own so far and even then they go no where. Nobody gives a you know what about Onkko despite him faking his death from his friend and his own wife, despite being what. 10 meters away? That's never going to be touch upon ever again, it's just... over and left up in there air. there's no conclusion. just more questions. 

 

For season of the undying. You literally progress it by simply playing the game. In nightwave you have to do some pretty convoluted things. Also I do both.. they aren't hard. Well, not after DE removed 1 hour kuva survival without using air towers. 

Edited by Fire2box
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3 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

They aren't impactful to any story outside of their own so far and even then they go no where. Nobody gives a you know what about Onkko despite him faking his death from his friend and his own wife, despite being what. 10 meters away? That's never going to be touch upon ever again, it's just... over and left up in there air. there's no conclusion. just more questions. 

 

For season of the undying. You literally progress it by simply playing the game. In nightwave you have to do some pretty convoluted things. 

Well , that is kinda what I like about Warframe. You can speculate things about stories and lore.

I was more of referring to nicest rewards being locked behind expansion and season pass.

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2 hours ago, TheRealShade said:

The one thing that really struck me is how alive the environment feels on Destiny compared to Warframe's Open World equivalents. There is always something going on somewhere on the map and you don't find yourself traveling long distances where you're only checking out the environment. Not to mention the fact that it's not squad-based, you can find random players doing different things and join together for events without needing to form a party.

The above is something that, if DE could do as well, would be huge. Yes I am aware it requires servers, yes I am aware servers are expensive, yes I am aware the spaghetti code of warframe will make that extremely hard to do; still, it should be something they attempt sometime in the future, if not the server based-truly-open-world, then the ones we have really need to be brought to life. Hostile wild-life roaming PoE and OV would be a starting point, dynamic events, that you can opt to launch or ignore, with meaningful rewards to follow.

Yeah, this one I can very much agree with. A bit sad its not what we have here.

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4 hours ago, Fire2box said:

Forsaken's annual pass is now free to all. anyone can do black armory, gambit, etc. 

That is not the point of interest though. The point of interest was if they had released anything for free in between expansion purchases, which in this case would be a pretty obvious no, since everything between Y1 and Y3 (shadowkeep) has been tied to one or another expansion people have been required to buy. They havent produced anything with the intent of it being free.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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On 2019-10-15 at 4:12 PM, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

I'm no genius but I'm sure if bitter warframe vets are having trouble. I can help you guys google "destiny 2 forums".....

 

Get your email and password ready, sign up, then you can make threads about how that game is better than your last game.

This isn’t a vet issue though he’s just talking about competition. Reading comprehension is a nice skill to learn 

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On 2019-10-15 at 8:54 PM, AshArbiter said:

There is zero need to be concerned about Destiny 2's rising growth. Here is the bottom line: Competition is good. Yes we all love Warframe, but having a close competitor to Warframe is great. Why? It's simple, two massive hands in the pot means developers need to work harder, and produce more quality content to grab players. This year, DE has outlined a slew of content they wanted to release, theres only 3 months left in the year and we've only seen a titleset rework, a frame, and... that's about it.

Going into 2020, Destiny 2 is sure to pick up some speed, now that it's F2P. Competition will make DE work harder to earn players. 

 

EDIT: FOR THE RECORD: I am not saying Destiny 2 is a better game, Warframe has a boat load of more content. HOWEVER, competition in the looter shooter market is good for us as "gamers"

Destiny 2 is pretty damn decent game. 

WF better start taking notes on a few things. 

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18 minutes ago, YazMatazO said:

a few things

Perhaps you want to explain this "a few things". Should they take notes on holding new content behind DLC paywall? Should they make season pass for nightwave rewards? Or maybe recycle old game modes with reskinned enemies and put a different name as a new mode? Maybe reskin some old weapon as a new weapon just with different name?

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3 hours ago, Fire2box said:

 

 

For season of the undying. You literally progress it by simply playing the game. In nightwave you have to do some pretty convoluted things. Also I do both.. they aren't hard. Well, not after DE removed 1 hour kuva survival without using air towers. 

you actually progress it very very little by doing that. you mostly want to bounty span and even then after your first 5 ranks that week your gain is SEVERELY cut down to where unless you're going in super hard in grinding out bounties you aren't making much progress. and you have to do at least 50 of those ranks like that too since 10 weeks. the FOMO is much much higher in that then spending say like 2 hours doing everything in nightwave for that week and only having to really do 65% of it. I gave up on actually getting to rank 100 or even 70 at this point just due to that fact and also the fact that engrams have also been severely cut down since the update came around there's very little rank to rank gain.

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Just now, 844448 said:

Perhaps you want to explain this "a few things". Should they take notes on holding new content behind DLC paywall? Should they make season pass for nightwave rewards? Or maybe recycle old game modes with reskinned enemies and put a different name as a new mode? Maybe reskin some old weapon as a new weapon just with different name?

Warframe most of that to a degree. And recently I’ve seen you just post a lot of the monitary things  regarding games like destiny. You’ve yet to discuss that while dlc and expansions are put behind purchase it follows a slightly tweaked version of most subscription based mmos like (WOW) (ESO) and more. You have the base game which I can say is pretty solid and if you would like to expand your gameplay you pay X amount for an expansion. Would you rather have d2 like warframe where it takes x amount of days to craft a regular weapon and. Let’s say 3 days for an exotic item? No. Warframe makes a lot of money in that aspect of gating items through time. 

D2 makes money via expansions and I can say now a better store from what they had at launch.

 

the season pass in d2 as well is pretty fair. You get weapons etc and some nice loot from just playing and if you choose to pay $10 for the premium battle pass you just get a few extra perks and exclusive cosmetics.  I shelled out $10 and I can say it’s nothing wrong with how it’s structured. You get some more prime engrams and a few weapon skins more. Along with some more armor pieces. It’s fine. 

 

Warframes expansions can be argued through prime access where if a user wants the exclusive content with said prime frame (while it’s accessible to everyone the frame that is) they have to spend at least 60-70 dollars.

warframe has gotten a new gamemode for the tileset once in a few years. Every couple of months d2 drops a raid with new and different mechanics that can be argued as fresh and add something new to the game. Also all of warframe enemies follow the same mindless pattern of. Kill shoot get killed etc. while I’m not saying d2 is any different. Different enemy types require different tactics to take care of. Something warframe dosent really have as I can just slash Viral anything and it’s dead. 

In short it’s nothing wrong with the way d2 handles content you just don’t like it. And that’s okay plenty of people may not like that model but it’s working and has knocked warfame out of its spot 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Warframe most of that to a degree. And recently I’ve seen you just post a lot of the monitary things  regarding games like destiny. You’ve yet to discuss that while dlc and expansions are put behind purchase it follows a slightly tweaked version of most subscription based mmos like (WOW) (ESO) and more. You have the base game which I can say is pretty solid and if you would like to expand your gameplay you pay X amount for an expansion. Would you rather have d2 like warframe where it takes x amount of days to craft a regular weapon and. Let’s say 3 days for an exotic item? No. Warframe makes a lot of money in that aspect of gating items through time. 

D2 makes money via expansions and I can say now a better store from what they had at launch.

 

the season pass in d2 as well is pretty fair. You get weapons etc and some nice loot from just playing and if you choose to pay $10 for the premium battle pass you just get a few extra perks and exclusive cosmetics.  I shelled out $10 and I can say it’s nothing wrong with how it’s structured. You get some more prime engrams and a few weapon skins more. Along with some more armor pieces. It’s fine. 

 

Warframes expansions can be argued through prime access where if a user wants the exclusive content with said prime frame (while it’s accessible to everyone the frame that is) they have to spend at least 60-70 dollars.

warframe has gotten a new gamemode for the tileset once in a few years. Every couple of months d2 drops a raid with new and different mechanics that can be argued as fresh and add something new to the game. Also all of warframe enemies follow the same mindless pattern of. Kill shoot get killed etc. while I’m not saying d2 is any different. Different enemy types require different tactics to take care of. Something warframe dosent really have as I can just slash Viral anything and it’s dead. 

In short it’s nothing wrong with the way d2 handles content you just don’t like it. And that’s okay plenty of people may not like that model but it’s working and has knocked warfame out of its spot 

Now, let's turn it a bit. Let's say the upcoming Empyrean has a whole new game mode, a raid, lots of new weapons with new and fresh mechanics, just need to pay $40 or completely no content for you. Same with The Duviri Paradox and The New War, will you spend $120 for that?

Then, for that season pass, perhaps you will like it when DE make a premium nightwave pass where the best cosmetics, arcanes, are behind this pass

Honestly, the expansion is one of the critics where they blamed Activision on that, and now it shows that Activision did nothing wrong

Not to forget, they have eververse store, where you buy your skins, emotes, engrams, and any cosmetics in the game

Perhaps you will see how bad the content drought in destiny later, when they release many DLC and you don't get a single new content from it, even the weapons or armor because it's pay up or no content for you

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15 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Now, let's turn it a bit. Let's say the upcoming Empyrean has a whole new game mode, a raid, lots of new weapons with new and fresh mechanics, just need to pay $40 or completely no content for you. Same with The Duviri Paradox and The New War, will you spend $120 for that?

Then, for that season pass, perhaps you will like it when DE make a premium nightwave pass where the best cosmetics, arcanes, are behind this pass

Honestly, the expansion is one of the critics where they blamed Activision on that, and now it shows that Activision did nothing wrong

Not to forget, they have eververse store, where you buy your skins, emotes, engrams, and any cosmetics in the game

Perhaps you will see how bad the content drought in destiny later, when they release many DLC and you don't get a single new content from it, even the weapons or armor because it's pay up or no content for you

The thing is in the eververse store you earn the engrams to get these things and even get light dust to purchase these things outright without shelling out money. While you do get to buy packs out front you can earn them pretty often by playing and leveling up your character past the level cap (not light cap) 

mad far as battle pass goes they only fate 4 cosmetics behind it where as you get the weapons for free  (the armor set is meh at best)

and as far as content goes the only thing your missing out on is a few exotics and the vex arena and shadowkeep contents. Which in my op is pretty fair. It’s a game with expansions while they do add more to the game for everyone those who buy the expansions get  more. If you pay for the season pass you get slightly more. It’s kind of very similar to fortnites season pass model.

and while I did power through all of d2s older expansions last month it’s tons of replay ability right now in the raids PvP strikes nightfalls and more. Things in the base game are replayable vs repetitive. A big issue with wf rn. 

Youre only trying to target and bring the worst case scenario out for it atm brother 

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