Destiny 2 and Warframe: COMPETITION IS GOOD!

[DOOMPATRIOT]

hace 20 horas, SneakyErvin dijo:

The difference is though, people can come back with no strings attached to test Railjack and leave if they want with only some time lost. If this was Destiny 2 they'd have to pay AAA cash in order to try something that may yet again be just another rehash of old content aswell as having to wait for it all to actually get released before getting their moneys worth.

So therefore is ok what Warframe is doing?

Look dude, not trying to be an assh@le, but I really think you are just saying the "In Destiny you have to pay, so therefore it sucks and it is ok that Warframe takes a whole year to make kinda-meaningful content" to deflect what the post is saying, but you have to face that, either you want It or not, Destiny 2 is a competitor for Warframe, and Destiny 2 (at least right now) is kind of winning this competition.

[844448]

1 hour ago, YazMatazO said:

Ugh... 

Dude, your entire post is becoming a bit hypocritical. I would warn you against becoming an echo-chamberist. 

But the reason why I highlight that particular line is because I play Conclave in WF and like it(that actually has earned me some ''ha-ha's'' in the past from this community). But Conclave in WF reveals just how janky WF can be overall. The direct comparison between the D2 open arena pvp and WF Conclave does not look good on WF's case at all. I'd advise against further delving in.

Perhaps you know the reason why it feels janky? For me, the breakneck speed from PvP is something hard to control if you're new, and the experienced players can wipe out the less experienced ones and we know people here don't like losing or putting effort or we wouldn't see complaints about universal medallion not available for conclave

[Frennick]

On 2019-10-15 at 9:54 PM, AshArbiter said:

There is zero need to be concerned about Destiny 2's rising growth. Here is the bottom line: Competition is good. Yes we all love Warframe, but having a close competitor to Warframe is great. Why? It's simple, two massive hands in the pot means developers need to work harder, and produce more quality content to grab players. This year, DE has outlined a slew of content they wanted to release, theres only 3 months left in the year and we've only seen a titleset rework, a frame, and... that's about it.

It's really just a competition for anyone who's into Destiny 2.
I played it before I bumped into Warframe, and Warframe is hands down just far more interesting due to combat and combat pace.

I remember completing the quest stuff in D2, and then that was basicly it. It doesn't really forward you into much more to grind, other than RNG weapons from "dungeons" or raids. The daily challenges at each "faction" NPC was "meh" to me. Honestly I feel like Borderlands and D2 share the looter shooter term more than Warframe, because in Warframe you grind the faction points, relics or resources for THE weapon you want, where as in Borderlands and D2 you're battling with RNG to get a specific weapon that ALSO rolls with RNG stats. In D2 you just switch around whatever gives the highest gear score, even if the weapon ain't that overall interesting.

Another problem for me, is that D2 is mostly just gunplay, much like Borderlands. You're tied to very few skills that have a cooldown, while Warframe adapts combat with use of weapons and constant frame abilities.

PvP in D2 was "alright", but it was outright messy like Warframe, as you die more or less instantly to things. Burst rifles allowed me to insta killed people just with body shots and the "Powerup" ammo was hilarious on the Storm LMG that did AOE damage, allowing you to run and gun the entire map causing multikills like Saryn nuking ESO. Supers basicly negated each other, and felt more or a "tactical" element rather than an "O-crap!" button.

The "open" world events in D2 also just reminds me of Anthem world events with same RNG rewards, that usually just get scrapped. Only difference is that in Anthem you don't get insta fragged by random Drop-Pods (hardest enemy in D2 really).

Last, but not least all end level ranges was stuck behind paywalls in terms of expansions. I believe you still need to buy Forsaken and Shadowkeep for various things.

For me I just didn't feel D2 could drag me in the same progression motivation :)

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, DOOMPATRIOT said:

So therefore is ok what Warframe is doing?

Look dude, not trying to be an assh@le, but I really think you are just saying the "In Destiny you have to pay, so therefore it sucks and it is ok that Warframe takes a whole year to make kinda-meaningful content" to deflect what the post is saying, but you have to face that, either you want It or not, Destiny 2 is a competitor for Warframe, and Destiny 2 (at least right now) is kind of winning this competition.

No I'm obviously saying that in WF (or any other F2P game) you can get back to the game whenever you want to try out new releases while in Destiny 2 you need to pay in order to try anything new at all. And in Destiny 2's case you cant even try all the content that you pay for, unless you stick around for the full staggered release.

There is also no "atleast right now" because you are comparing a completely new game to one that is going on its seventh year. In a few months we can actually compare how well or not Destiny 2 is doing. This whole "Destiny 2 is stomping WF" mindset is as idiotic and mindblowing as Epic going "We sold this many more copies of Metro 3 than Steam sold of Metro 1 and 2". Hope those guys arent rocket scientists.

 

[844448]

6 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Yes and no for the first two parts. In many cases you get a bounty or quest in things like crucible or vanguard or from a retailer in an open world and pretty much complete them while just playing personally that’s been the case for me and without me trying or actively seeking to I hit level 30 of the season pass in like 3-4 days of play? It would be more but me and my friends like goofing off .

Means you still need those bounties or quests and complete them. I'm a kinetic auto rifle main and bounties from gunsmith more often than not require you to kill enemies with element and different weapon type. Sounds like a chore to pull one out from collection and start killing with that weapon

6 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

in terms of shadowkeep to my knowledge you get access to most of the events that aren’t super tied to shadowkeeps stuff like exotics and the questline related stuff. 

What event though? As far as I remember the new vex offensive requires you to finish shadowkeep campaign means hardly anything you can access outside moon as free roam area

6 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Engaging enemies along with raids.

If you want engaging enemies, warframes, weapons and mods would need massive nerf to the point of nerfing them to the ground to make your power on the same level on guardians or straight up bosses with so many "cheap mechanics" like immunity, weak points, massive power and damage resistance on top of massive amount of health.

6 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Great PvP

Perhaps because of the pace being closer to our normal human speed making it more bearable but more often than not it's one shot from burst rifle so I'm turned off with it

6 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

With the update to armor making it feel like d1 a lot of great build variety

I don't see the new armor system being interesting when it's similar to warframe mod system, added with that element on armor determining what kind of mod you can equip on said armor, limiting the customisation

7 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

all the unique weapons which if not all but pretty close to all can be viable in any content

Outside exotics, I don't see anything unique, even I asked one person who played destiny from 2014 the plus points from ghost primus with high impact reserve (increases damage at the end of magazine) when I can get rampage (bonus damage up to 3 stacks) with less situational requirement, no satisfying answer other than "it's the best weapon" which doesn't explain a thing whatsoever

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

sustainability

This is always the word thrown around. From what I see you will grind any activity until you get a weapon with set of perks you want since armor mods are not random anymore. What's the difference with riven mod?

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

in esssence that’s the model of the game to an extent and that’s not bad. I don’t see anyone clamoring in about eso or wows model because while it isn’t tied to d2 or warframe it’s pretty much the same if not worse for eso sake (but eso still is a great mmo experience) you don’t like this Model of game from the start so of course your not going to be fond of the practice

When the DLC nowadays being a game cut into pieces, then sold as DLC, I'm not going to support this. I don't mind if the DLC was zavala story they showed on their channel but this? No thank you

[YazMatazO]

1 hour ago, 844448 said:

Perhaps you know the reason why it feels janky? For me, the breakneck speed from PvP is something hard to control if you're new, and the experienced players can wipe out the less experienced ones and we know people here don't like losing or putting effort or we wouldn't see complaints about universal medallion not available for conclave

The speed is one thing. 

The somewhat unrefined shooting mechanics of the game don't help. Microlag is especially noticeable in the Conclave. The lack of varied pvp modes where people can contribute in more than one ways further adds to people's dislike. The cc bonanza of the pvp balance is, yet, another debatable issue...

In the mean time in the Crucible there's always a team ready for some action. It's plain fun. You know what - why don't you try it? It's free...  

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

I've went back to d2 because there's nothing I'm interested in doing in wf anymore.

I've not played d2 for a long time so there's loads of content for me to get stuck into.  And I like how so much of it has progress bars showing how much I need to do to actually get the reward.  I feel like I'm actually working towards something and making progress rather than absolutely everything being rng and having to rely on pure luck.

I'll probably come back to wf in a few months.  Once there's a decent amount of stuff to work through again, not just a cple of new frames/weapons/cosmetics.  Maybe once the new war drops or duviri.  

[InsuranceFraud]

5 hours ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

I've went back to d2 because there's nothing I'm interested in doing in wf anymore.

I've not played d2 for a long time so there's loads of content for me to get stuck into.  And I like how so much of it has progress bars showing how much I need to do to actually get the reward.  I feel like I'm actually working towards something and making progress rather than absolutely everything being rng and having to rely on pure luck.

I'll probably come back to wf in a few months.  Once there's a decent amount of stuff to work through again, not just a cple of new frames/weapons/cosmetics.  Maybe once the new war drops or duviri.  

In the same boat here pretty much.

[Falseliberty]

I tried destiny 2 at launch and it was garbage man. But I did try it also a few weeks ago and its great state at the moment. Sorta reminds me of how warframe started out.

So the people saying that warframe has no content try this. Sink the same 2000 hrs into destiny 2 that you did warframe and get back to me.

Bottom line, you probably shouldn't be playing any of them that long or at least consecutively. take a break for Christs sake

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

8 minutes ago, Falseliberty said:

I tried destiny 2 at launch and it was garbage man. But I did try it also a few weeks ago and its great state at the moment. Sorta reminds me of how warframe started out.

So the people saying that warframe has no content try this. Sink the same 2000 hrs into destiny 2 that you did warframe and get back to me.

Bottom line, you probably shouldn't be playing any of them that long or at least consecutively. take a break for Christs sake

Hi have 2k hours in ark survival evolved (more if I’m not mistaken)

about 1.5 in for honor 

don’t get me started in ESO and more.

the time may be a factor to burnout but taking a month two three and even a year long break and being able to do content in a matter of a few days isn’t an issue? Personally I think that’s a major flaw 

telling someone to take a break assuming we all no life warframe makes no sense I’m pretty sure we play other games and if you look at active players right now we’re doing that right now. 

[844448]

10 hours ago, YazMatazO said:

The speed is one thing. 

The somewhat unrefined shooting mechanics of the game don't help. Microlag is especially noticeable in the Conclave. The lack of varied pvp modes where people can contribute in more than one ways further adds to people's dislike. The cc bonanza of the pvp balance is, yet, another debatable issue...

In the mean time in the Crucible there's always a team ready for some action. It's plain fun. You know what - why don't you try it? It's free...  

I've played crucible even before they moved to steam and what do I get? One hit kill with fighting lion, hand cannon or burst rifle all the time while I need a dozen of bullets with auto rifle. Not to mention the target acquisition where the game aims for you and correct your bullet path means slight misses will be counted as hits so there's no need to aim, just get a high impact weapon with high target acquisition you can find from weapon database on the internet

[DOOMPATRIOT]

hace 12 horas, SneakyErvin dijo:

There is also no "atleast right now" because you are comparing a completely new game to one that is going on its seventh year.

In a few months we can actually compare how well or not Destiny 2 is doing. This whole "Destiny 2 is stomping WF" mindset is as idiotic and mindblowing.

 

Destiny 2 was released 2 years ago dude, I ain't saying that it is old, but it isn't "New".

And saying that they cannot be compared is bs, that would be like saying that a 7 years old mithology book cannot be compared with a 3 years old mithology book, they are both mithology books.

But I do agree that we need time to see if Destiny 2 has a bright/ bad future, same as Warframe, if Empyreon (which is what most of players who are taking a break rn are looking forward) cannot keep players for More than a month, I don't know what will happen to Warframe.

[SneakyErvin]

10 hours ago, DOOMPATRIOT said:

Destiny 2 was released 2 years ago dude, I ain't saying that it is old, but it isn't "New".

And saying that they cannot be compared is bs, that would be like saying that a 7 years old mithology book cannot be compared with a 3 years old mithology book, they are both mithology books.

But I do agree that we need time to see if Destiny 2 has a bright/ bad future, same as Warframe, if Empyreon (which is what most of players who are taking a break rn are looking forward) cannot keep players for More than a month, I don't know what will happen to Warframe.

New in the sense that it is on Steam and "free". If you wanna compare it to WF since the Bnet release of Destiny 2 then it comes so far from stomping anything besides possibly its own ass. There is a reason Bungie has tried two different "free" approaches. It barely took half a year before they handed the base game out for free on Bnet because it was doing so damn poorly that they had to attract new blood.

And no, it isnt like comparing books. It is about comparing two games in two completely different stages of their life. A new game will always attract players, just as a new patch will attract new/old players. You are comparing a new release with a new expansion, tailored to attract both old and new alike, with a game that is in between minor and major content patches. As I said, give Destiny 2 a month or two and see where the numbers of retention actually lands. I mean, it shouldnt be hard to understand how to analyze numbers correctly. What you can currently compare is week 1-3 of WF in 2013 and week 1-3 in Destiny 2 in 2019, aswell as week 1-3 in Destiny 2 2017. That would give you a grasp of correct data, both regarding how the releases were for two different games and how the release and re-release compares for Destiny 2 alone.

We will never really be able to see how Destiny 2 will fare until we see how they plan to tackle future releases, if it will be 100% based on expansions like it has been since 2017, or if they will switch over to free updates unrelated to expansions and worthwhile for free and paying players alike. The current model is just a downward spiral, which Bungie should have known at the start. It did obviously not work on Bnet with a B2P monetization model and it surely wont work on Steam either except to possibly attract new players to test it due to the "free" buy-in. Bungie's biggest issue on Bnet was that they werent able to sell their game nor the expansions successfully. That same issue persists on Steam. Add that to their comments regarding them being unable to create and release content on a quarterly basis and you end up with a bad mix.

If anything they should have followed ArenaNet if they wanted to stick to the "B2P" model. Big annual expansions with several good and interesting patches in between aswell as a solid cash shop with attractive aswell as useful QoL and cosmetic items. Or they should have just gone true F2P. Every content addition free, basic battle pass free, reduction in bank slots on free accounts (old players would get it fully unlocked as it was) and then have those QoL things aswell as cosmetics as part of their cash shop. Those are concepts in the free and "free" gaming industry that have been proven time and time again to work.

[(PSN)Midcall]

Am 15.10.2019 um 22:15 schrieb AshArbiter:

I agree. Destiny 2 for sure has the leg up on pvp, that kinda combat. The paid expansions could be a barrier to some WF casuals.

WF dominates in the term "fullyfree"

What WF domiates is the lack of endgame. Im not a casual, im far from that. I have 3500 hours in Warframe and 5000 Into Destiny (including D1). So clearly i love both games and i played the S#&$ out of them. To sum up those 8000 hours of my lifetime:

In WF the way is the goal.

After a point no enemy is a thread any more and when u are like me there is nothing to do left. Ive 800 hydrolyst caps, max mastery, all fragments, 10k plat left, most outfits, i did everything i can imagine in WF and i enjoyed it. I really wanted it to be more. The last thing i tried was completing all codex entries. But then? With all my power there is nothing left and DE focus more on newer players. Im OK with that, i had a lot of fun with that game but its not made for ppl like me who want challenging content after hitting max gear stuff.

 

Destiny has a pretty awesome endgame, it has PvP which u can actually play. Even with best gear, good knowledge there are things i cant simply do without proper team or coordinating. Which can be frustrating sometimes because usually i prefer solo play and not to communicate.

[Otaku_Hyen]

I personally can imagine a cooperation instead of competition. Anthem, Destiny, Warframe can coegsist and would be nice if these three game somehow could cooperate to survive and boost each other. Each game has it's good parts and worse parts I personally play Warframe because I enjoy this game the most, but each game could learn from another.

[Alpha_Tango]

They are simply two "free" games I can get bored with when fun is exhausted. What money they make out of it I really don't care because competition is really bigger than both of them combined. Expecting and/or waiting for games to improve is a waste of time. Just go play what entertains you most.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Alpha_Tango

[(PSN)GbHaseo]

On 2019-10-16 at 11:11 PM, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

I’m all for redoing eververse in all honesty. But the idea that it’s some terrible anti consumer battlefront two levels of micro transactions is a stretch and I feel like that’s what he was trying to compare it to. I do think that the earn of bright dust should be boosted and more cosmetics should be available without it or for less. But do I see the system as bad as he’s describing it? Not at all

Well to some it doesn't seem as bad, which everyone has tastes, outlooks, opinions and that's fair.

Bungie has been caught being deceitful about it. Exploiting FOMO, not being clear on what's going to be and whats not going to be for bright dust. Over 2 seasons ago, back in April, they promised to fix this by May, and haven't. They also removed a lot of the more consumer friendly stuff about Eververse. Coupled with the fact Shadowkeep has very little new stuff to earn, 2 story missions, no vendor refreshes, Iron Banner is old armor, yet Eververse has a full new stock, of unclear earnables. Add on to this Bungie says they don't have the resources, bc armor designers are busy creating seasonal activities and story for some reason?

It really bothers ppl.. you can't charge for dlc, and be manipulative with your mtx.. it just really rubs wrong. Which is why many in the playerbase is up in arms about Eververse.

[Shinjen]

You know what the funny thing is? Shadowkeep costs 35 dollars and 90% of the content is reused assets (the moon is literally the same map as D1) and weapons (lots of reskins), if you don't believe me just go and take a look at the Destiny subreddit. It's quite #*!%ing hilarious actually how a team of 600 hundred people can be so lazy. 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Shinjen

[Tenno76856]

On 2019-10-19 at 12:22 AM, Otaku_Hyen said:

I personally can imagine a cooperation instead of competition. Anthem, Destiny, Warframe can coegsist and would be nice if these three game somehow could cooperate to survive and boost each other. Each game has it's good parts and worse parts I personally play Warframe because I enjoy this game the most, but each game could learn from another.

Isnt Anthem dead or dying?

Why do they need to boost each other?. 

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

On 2019-10-17 at 9:18 PM, DOOMPATRIOT said:

Destiny 2 was released 2 years ago dude, I ain't saying that it is old, but it isn't "New".

And saying that they cannot be compared is bs, that would be like saying that a 7 years old mithology book cannot be compared with a 3 years old mithology book, they are both mithology books.

But I do agree that we need time to see if Destiny 2 has a bright/ bad future, same as Warframe, if Empyreon (which is what most of players who are taking a break rn are looking forward) cannot keep players for More than a month, I don't know what will happen to Warframe.

Nothing will happen to it. It's not an applebees on its last leg. Things will go on just fine. 

[arman276]

there is no competition

way more people are actively on d2 compared to wf

 

wf is not fun and just to begin to grind, you have to grind to grind so that you can grind to grind

 

and the mobile-game market of the foundry is trash 

[Emolition]

31 minutes ago, arman276 said:

there is no competition

way more people are actively on d2 compared to wf

 

wf is not fun and just to begin to grind, you have to grind to grind so that you can grind to grind

 

and the mobile-game market of the foundry is trash 

For me warframe is more fun they let you experiance the game atleast unlike D2 that force you to skip the best part of leveling up a character.

[844448]

31 minutes ago, arman276 said:

there is no competition

way more people are actively on d2 compared to wf

 

wf is not fun and just to begin to grind, you have to grind to grind so that you can grind to grind

 

and the mobile-game market of the foundry is trash 

When d2 is no different? Also way more people are active in d2 because it has no standalone version means everyone needs to run steam to play and get counted while there are people who play warframe without steam

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

2 hours ago, 844448 said:

When d2 is no different? Also way more people are active in d2 because it has no standalone version means everyone needs to run steam to play and get counted while there are people who play warframe without steam

Even so warframe is outperformed by d2 with the standalone numbers. It’s not like the standalone version of warframe is boasting 300k. More players under its belt that steam dosent show. It’s about 10-20k at most more active users being nice

[844448]

Just now, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Even so warframe is outperformed by d2 with the standalone numbers. It’s not like the standalone version of warframe is boasting 300k. More players under its belt that steam dosent show. It’s about 10-20k at most more active users being nice

Steve said warframe has 300k players everyday, and I don't remember if it's simultaneous or consecutive but we have at least 300k a day based on what Steve said and since we don't have the source for total players, steam is not a reliable source for warframe unless DE force all players to play from steam from now on