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(NSW)TheFrontz

why is thier no trading post in this game

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Never been on trade chat, didn't know there was a place to look for items for sale on the website.

Stop by Maroos' every once and while and occasionally find something I am looking for. Usually not in to big of a hurry to find it. And honestly have never had any problems talking to or asking anyone about anything the few trades I have done. 

The only game auction house I have used is WoW, and yes it was sometimes convenient if I wanted components that I didn't want to waste time farming. Which is the only thing I would like to see is the ability to trade components. As since the game has no inventory cap I know there are players with so many components that they could build everything three times and still have a metric ton of the stuff left.
Hey I want to buy (what ever super cool thing they are selling) for X amount of platinum, and do you have X amount of oyxium for X number of credits? Components should just get an assigned value, to keep it simple and again long time players have so much of it they might as well get something for the time spent getting it even if they don't need the credits. As it could mean the lower level person can build the cool thing they want a little sooner, which does make the game more fun, getting new stuff to build and try out. 

 

 

SordidDreams, I think the thing you are over looking is the number of trades people can do is tied to their mastery rank, and cutting down the number of trades higher level MR players have is likely going to piss them off. Also the "it's easier but you can't do it as much" thing is kind of off putting even to someone who does next to no trading. I've never hit my trade limit since being able to trade and I am only MR7; being able to do it less sounds counter intuitive to making it better. 

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5 minutes ago, (XB1)BlueDually said:

I think the thing you are over looking is the number of trades people can do is tied to their mastery rank, and cutting down the number of trades higher level MR players have is likely going to piss them off. Also the "it's easier but you can't do it as much" thing is kind of off putting even to someone who does next to no trading. I've never hit my trade limit since being able to trade and I am only MR7; being able to do it less sounds counter intuitive to making it better. 

You're right that it would piss some people off, that is a good point. But then any major change to the game will do that, there's no way around that. I like to think that they'd be outweighed by the people who would enjoy the new system. It's hard to say for sure, though, and the history of online games is littered with positive changes that were rejected by the very people who would benefit from them for no good reason. So who knows, I don't think this question can be definitively answered other than by trying actually implementing a trading system. And for the record, I don't think DE has the balls to try.

Like you said, the trade limit is currently quite generous, since even as MR7 you've never hit the cap. I'm MR27 and I have hit it a handful of times when I need to stock up on an item or quickly dump my inventory, but the vast majority of my daily trades go to waste. Hell, most days I don't make a single trade. So I feel it wouldn't be a big deal to slash that cap by even an order to magnitude. Maybe give players just one daily trade that remains available for three days, kinda like daily Nightwave challenges.

There are certainly people who are into trading way more than you or I and who hit their cap every single day, and they'd be rightfully pissed. But then those are few and far between, and I really doubt anyone can really enjoy spamming "WTS [some crappy thing] 500p" into trade chat all day, except in a weird and unhealthy Stockhold Syndrome way. So I see that as an acceptable trade-off.

It's worth pointing out daily trades are not the only limit that could be applied. You could go as broad or as specific with a real trading system as you wanted, down to restrictions or cooldowns on individual items. Sold a Nova Prime Neuroptics? Can't sell another one for 48 hours even if you have daily trades left. Or you could implement a progressive plat tax. First trade of the day, you get all the plat. Second trade, the game takes 10% of the plat as tax. Third trade, 20%. And so on, the more you trade, the less you profit. There's all kinds of different ways people could be discouraged or outright prevented from trading more than is desirable, so "there's no way to prevent oversupply" argument is unsound in principle.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)BlueDually said:

SordidDreams, I think the thing you are over looking is the number of trades people can do is tied to their mastery rank, and cutting down the number of trades higher level MR players have is likely going to piss them off. Also the "it's easier but you can't do it as much" thing is kind of off putting even to someone who does next to no trading. I've never hit my trade limit since being able to trade and I am only MR7; being able to do it less sounds counter intuitive to making it better. 

No mate. They're overlooking way more than that. 

It's literally a case of an infinite supply and a highly finite demand. Someone already explained how the drop rates would need to be adjusted severely downward to curb the future supply. The numbers looked to be in line with the sorts of drop rates for the rare (and thus valuable) items in games with auction houses. His response was to basically tell them to stop pulling numbers out of thin air. This shows a lack of understanding of the actual ways of how the other games actually manage to control supply and demand. 

Similarly I've explained that other games enforce demand through consumables and requiring people to repair and replace their built items. That apparently just went "woosh". Instead all they suggest is limiting trades, but I already explained that the sheer number of players who have items for sale still creates an enormous surplus in supply, as there are millions of us, and many with items that we're willing to sell. Buyers are however, pretty much unchanged by the proposed changes. So demand will not increase. This means that prices will plummet for most common items. 

Instead all we get are vague "suggestions" that are designed to "fix" the problems that their other suggestions will cause, and claims that what we're saying has been debunked, when it hasn't. 

The user needs to at least go get a rudimentary grasp on the topics being discussed, and then actually think about what they're suggesting, instead of just sticking with it because it's something they want. 

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5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

It's literally a case of an infinite supply and a highly finite demand. Someone already explained how the drop rates would need to be adjusted severely downward to curb the future supply. The numbers looked to be in line with the sorts of drop rates for the rare (and thus valuable) items in games with auction houses. His response was to basically tell them to stop pulling numbers out of thin air. This shows a lack of understanding of the actual ways of how the other games actually manage to control supply and demand.

Your lack of reading comprehension is astonishing. Or are you misrepresenting things on purpose? The post in question is this: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1134135-why-is-thier-no-trading-post-in-this-game/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-11091876. What that actually says is that my suggestion would prevent the need for microscopically small drop chances. But hey, by hook or by crook, whatever it takes to make the idea of an actual proper trading system look bad, huh?

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Similarly I've explained that other games enforce demand through consumables and requiring people to repair and replace their built items. That apparently just went "woosh". Instead all they suggest is limiting trades, but I already explained that the sheer number of players who have items for sale still creates an enormous surplus in supply, as there are millions of us, and many with items that we're willing to sell. Buyers are however, pretty much unchanged by the proposed changes. So demand will not increase. This means that prices will plummet for most common items. 

Yes, and I responded by explaining that your assumption that every single person who has an account would immediately jump into the game and immediately list everything they have for sale is ridiculous and unfounded. I also pointed out you could limit the number of items a player can list for sale at a time (overall or per arbitrary category), thereby literally preventing people from being able to do that. Which, as you aptly put it, went "woosh".

5 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The user needs to at least go get a rudimentary grasp on the topics being discussed, and then actually think about what they're suggesting, instead of just sticking with it because it's something they want. 

I couldn't agree more.

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3 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Your lack of reading comprehension is astonishing. Or are you misrepresenting things on purpose? The post in question is this: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1134135-why-is-thier-no-trading-post-in-this-game/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-11091876. What that actually says is that my suggestion would prevent the need for microscopically small drop chances. But hey, by hook or by crook, whatever it takes to make the idea of an actual proper trading system look bad, huh?

Works better if you actually remember what's been written in the thread. Here, let me educate you:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1134135-why-is-thier-no-trading-post-in-this-game/?do=findComment&comment=11085510

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1134135-why-is-thier-no-trading-post-in-this-game/?do=findComment&comment=11085766

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1134135-why-is-thier-no-trading-post-in-this-game/?do=findComment&comment=11091876

Notice how the authors change over time? It's because many people are trying to be patient and explain very simple concepts to folks like you. 

And what the one you quoted said that due to the ridiculous suggestion you made, supply for trade would be limited, however they explained why what you suggest would not be good for trade. You're literally like a really bad tradesman who is saying that he'll fix one problem, but in the process ends up creating an even bigger mess.

A little bit of common sense would show you how very bad your suggestions are. You seem thoroughly unwilling or unable to apply it to your contributions thus far. 

3 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Yes, and I responded by explaining that your assumption that every single person who has an account would immediately jump into the game and immediately list everything they have for sale is ridiculous and unfounded. I also pointed out you could limit the number of items a player can list for sale at a time (overall or per arbitrary category), thereby literally preventing people from being able to do that. Which, as you aptly put it, went "woosh".

And again you devolve to the ridiculous suggestion of promoting trade by severely restricting our ability to trade. Seriously that's just silly of you. The end result of what you are pushing is that only high value items can be traded, but since they need to be traded ASAP or lose all value according to your other ridiculous suggestion, people will rapidly drop their own prices so that they can at least get something in return for their time. 

If we scrap the time limitation, then what happens is that we only try to trade high value items, that automatically excludes a large number of players, especially the most sensitive ones - the newbs - who desperately need to make plat for slots and purchases. Currently the easiest plat they can reliably earn is from the sale of junk. Congratulations, you just took the ability to do that away from them. Brill... Oh wait not brilliant, just ridiculous again. 

3 hours ago, SordidDreams said:
8 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The user needs to at least go get a rudimentary grasp on the topics being discussed, and then actually think about what they're suggesting, instead of just sticking with it because it's something they want. 

I couldn't agree more.

 

Good. I suggest that you start with any entry-level economics textbook you can get your hands on. Godspeed and good luck, because I am not going to bother replying to any more of your nonsense until you can demonstrate a basic level of comprehension in the topics that are being discussed. 

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53 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Notice how the authors change over time? It's because many people are trying to be patient and explain very simple concepts to folks like you. 

No, it's because people don't bother reading the thread, so they make the same refuted points that you keep making because they don't know they're refuted. You, on the other hand, do. Also, two out of those three "different authors" you linked are in fact the same guy.

53 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And what the one you quoted said that due to the ridiculous suggestion you made, supply for trade would be limited, however they explained why what you suggest would not be good for trade.

No, what they actually said is that my suggestion would severely limit supply and cause very high prices. Which is what you want, isn't it? Like, your whole thing is that a proper trading system would cause oversupply and a price crash, so you should be happy about a suggestion that would counteract that, yet here we are. It sounds to me like you don't know what you want, you're just being contrarian for the sake of it.

53 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And again you devolve to the ridiculous suggestion of promoting trade by severely restricting our ability to trade.

So I guess telling you like three times to stop propping up this particular straw man was not enough and I need to tell you again? Fine, here you go: None of my suggestions aim to promote trading. On the contrary, I'm suggesting measures to prevent trade from increasing if the process itself is made less tedious. I thought that would be obvious from my use of words like "restriction", "limitation", "regulation", "cooldown", and so on.

53 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The end result of what you are pushing is that only high value items can be traded, but since they need to be traded ASAP or lose all value according to your other ridiculous suggestion, people will rapidly drop their own prices so that they can at least get something in return for their time. 

Yes, but that will be counteracted by the fact that much fewer of those items will be available to be traded in total, so depending on how exactly you tweak the system (i.e. how much you throttle the supply), you could cause prices to not change at all or even make them rise.

53 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If we scrap the time limitation, then what happens is that we only try to trade high value items, that automatically excludes a large number of players, especially the most sensitive ones - the newbs - who desperately need to make plat for slots and purchases. Currently the easiest plat they can reliably earn is from the sale of junk. Congratulations, you just took the ability to do that away from them. Brill... Oh wait not brilliant, just ridiculous again. 

That is a valid point, good job. Though it would be even better if you tried to think of a solution rather than just throw your hands up in the air, declare that it's hopeless, and proceed with the mockery. Like maybe having the opposite of the current system, giving new players a large number of trade slots and taking them away as they gain MR. The current system is unequal, it's really hard to pull yourself up by your bootstraps when you're new while the rich get richer. An inverse system would give newbies who don't have anything better the ability to trade junk en masse while preventing veterans from flooding the market with high-end items. I'm sure you could think of other suitable measures if you tried.

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On 10/20/2019 at 2:57 PM, FatalPapercut said:

I've been giving this thread a read through, and though I'm nowhere near being will versed in economics, I have come up with a pair of ideas for improved trading is like feedback on.

First is a trading post where you can only list buy orders, no 'want to sell'. Pick an item you want, select a price you're willing to pay or another item your willing to trade, and prospective sellers can check to see what's in high demand.

Second is specter-based shopkeeping, where you build and drop a specter in a relay, load it's inventory with what you're selling and your prices, (up to so many items at once, perhaps being able to bundle sets as a single item) and leave it there for buyers to browse through.

Both good ideas in my opinion. But I really like the second suggestion. Something like the vendors in SWG.

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On 2019-10-15 at 7:38 PM, (NSW)TheFrontz said:

can someone explain why the trading post isnt a thing in this game i mean trading face to face is good to have to but this game could really use a trading post

In-game trading is deliberately crippled by DE because they're actually rather uncomfortable having a player-run economy, and refuse to implement any trading in which one player can set-and-forget. It's unclear whether they simply don't trust themselves to control the economy to any degree (they LOATHE the concept of an auction house) or if it's an attempt to curb player abuse

This isn't helped by the fact that the the market is a HUGE buyer's market. The vast majority of what's being sold are duplicates; almost everyone already has all the prime parts they want (much like you) and are trying to offload the excess. As a result there's almost no one looking to buy, only sell

I for one am in favor of a better trading UI, even if there's no change to functionality. Sitting staring at the bottom left 10% of your screen is not acceptable

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There is a very simple explanation as to why there isn't an auction house. 

With an auction house, making it very simple to place an item for sale (even with a cred tax sink), prices will drop exponentially,  on everything. This correlates to the argument that people make that the plat still needs to be bought by someone to be then traded. 

But with prices going down, what will happen is that those that actually buy the plat, wont need to buy as much as before as prices will be lower across the board.

In essence an auction house would be perfect for us, but terrible business model for DE.

 

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1 hour ago, Razhius said:

With an auction house, making it very simple to place an item for sale (even with a cred tax sink), prices will drop exponentially,  on everything.

Unless you put restrictions in place to prevent that. Yeah, currently supply in the market is limited by the fact that trading is a hassle, so not everyone can be bothered. If you made it so quick and easy that everyone would do it, you'd have to literally prevent them from being able to. The game already has a daily trade cap for that exact reason, to prevent people from trading too much, so lowering that would be a good start. All kinda of other limitations, cooldowns, taxes, and various other tools could be used as well.

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11 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Unless you put restrictions in place to prevent that. Yeah, currently supply in the market is limited by the fact that trading is a hassle, so not everyone can be bothered. If you made it so quick and easy that everyone would do it, you'd have to literally prevent them from being able to. The game already has a daily trade cap for that exact reason, to prevent people from trading too much, so lowering that would be a good start. All kinda of other limitations, cooldowns, taxes, and various other tools could be used as well.

All things sound easy and good until you have to ask your boss for resources to do it and tell them "well, don't know if it will make us any revenue".  

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30 minutes ago, Chappie1975 said:

All things sound easy and good until you have to ask your boss for resources to do it and tell them "well, don't know if it will make us any revenue".  

Yeah, I suspect that's the real reason behind any lack of effort on DE's part in this area. The current system 'works', in the sense that it generates money, so why change it. The fact that it's a PITA to use is irrelevant to them. Still, I do think it would be possible if they wanted to.

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55 minutes ago, Chappie1975 said:

All things sound easy and good until you have to ask your boss for resources to do it and tell them "well, don't know if it will make us any revenue".  

Thing is i entirely gave up on trading because said hassle.
Same reason i gave up finding people to play with via recruit chat.

At some point, when you use your free lifetime sitting there trying to find buds to kill eidolons ( because you're not the person whos got all arcanes and all frames and all that stuff ) you end up being frustrated and just leave that out.

The same goes for trading, ive yet to trade Ash Prime sets and other stuff, and yes the market website is a little help, but with all the chatters, the complicated ways to tab and search for the dude in game just to find out he already bought the set... man....


Don't get me wrong, i love Warframe even if its most of the time only me and Lyxxy playing together...
The only nice experience these days with playing in team is ESO and SO, ( Sanctuary Onslaught ), most of the time you find nice people who appreciate your skill and want to do another round with ya.

Anyway, you guys have a point about everything becoming to cheap if everyone can sell it easily.. but then...again... feels bad.

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On 2019-10-21 at 7:53 PM, seprent said:

Ok when you open the chat window and go to trade chat there is a magnifying glass in the top left click it and will open a box for you to filter things out put in everything you want if includes term is check with a green check mark it means it will show you everything that used that word 

For instance trade chat goes a mile a minute with WTS offers but filter for WTB with includes term checked it will show you only things that have WTB somewhere in them drastically cutting down trade chat speed getting more specific will slow it more but help narrow down what you were wanting to buy or sell 
EX: WTB + includes term = Show all WTB offers WTB + Chroma prime set + includes term = People only looking to buy chroma prime set 

Thank you!! 

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On 2019-10-15 at 9:38 PM, (NSW)TheFrontz said:

i just dont get this this game has been out for as long as it has and thier is no trading post i have been sitting here for weeks with a ton of prime parts trying to trade them no one wants to buy from me or trade with me for them i just went to the maroo's baazar and thier was like 20+ people just sitting thier hands raised trying to trade thier has to be a better way to do this why cant thier be a place to put an item up for trade for platinum or a different item to get can someone explain why the trading post isnt a thing in this game i mean trading face to face is good to have to but this game could really use a trading post

It would require effort (coding) and resources (servers) on DE's part, and would compete with them selling things.  

So yeah, not going to happen.

 

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On 2019-10-16 at 5:38 AM, Jiminez_Burial said:

No you block them because they either respond saying they didn't actually want to buy, or they don't respond at all which can be deemed as rude.  They're either liars or they're subjectively rude.  Either way I would put them on my ignore list because neither are the type of people I want to do business with.

Yeah, I disagree with this.  There have been instances when I have already entered a WTB trade and I'm focusing on the current trading session when two or three other traders PM me while I'm actively trading.  As soon as I complete the trade, taking maybe 20 to 30 seconds, I respond to the others to let them know I already bought... And they have already banned me. 

Their loss because I am a legit trader, and courteously responding, but their lack of patience is asinine.

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9 minutes ago, GrimSinner said:

taking maybe 20 to 30 seconds

Yes then that's on them.  I personally give 5-10mins and then block them.  20-30 seconds isn't long enough.

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On 2019-10-15 at 9:45 PM, Loza03 said:

I recommend Warframe.Market (the full stop is important)

As for a post, DE do not want players passively farming plat. Face to face is and will continue to be the only way for the time being.

I get that F2F is the only way to trade and why it is that way, but why should we have to go to an external site and link accounts just to sell stuff? Why not have DE implement something similar IN GAME? Make it so you can post prices, and people can see them BUT you still have to be online and meet F2F to complete the transaction. It would be the EXACT same system we have now, but we wouldn't have to rely on a third party that could potentially get hacked (because it is directly internet facing), or bought by some unscrupulous fourth party?

Doing this would bring control under DE's umbrella so they could ban people that abuse the system, set time limits before a listing expire, and might even help them weed out people that are dealing in "bad plat". I really don't see any downsides for DE doing this.

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