Getting slapped out of Archwing.

[kapn655321]

It's a good thing that you can set a hotkey for your gear to get back in your archwing in mid air.
It's a bad thing that I have to do it 5 times in a row.
It's a terrible thing that I can reliably encounter this before the security level is even up on Vallis.
Amesha is intended to prevent this, but is not capable of stopping it,
and often is shot down several times before you can get set up.

Please, make it stop. It's Way Way too much, too often. Please, Please make it stop.

Archwings wouldn't be so bad if we could use and level them occasionally.

Edited October 16, 2019 by kapn655321

[LSG501]

Yeah the idea of being 'ejected' from archwings on PoE and OV has been a pain since day one, even more so when we had to use charges to trigger the archwing.   I'd rather the missiles do large amounts of damage (not one shot level) than knocking me out of archwing.  It doesn't help when there's a couple of enemy weapons that we don't actually get warned about. 

I wouldn't mind them 'fixing' the 'anti air' missiles going after titania in pixie mode, even with her avoidance passive, as well. 

[Cloudyvisage]

It is somewhat awkward to truly use the Archwings in the open world areas, they are entertaining to use as transportation but little else, using their abilities is somewhat dubious, other than itzal.

I would have preferred the higher damage levels and just have more enemies have them, heck, as it is in the plains anytime you go near a grineer encampment while they are alerted you can expect at least one anti air missile to go up, even if there are barely any enemies there. go to the highly populated areas and the missiles could be coming near constantly. That should be the dissuasion from using Archwing in an area, you have no cover, everything can shoot at you and missiles are constantly going up, forcing you to deal with them.

That actually sounds entertaining, you are using what is, effectively, a small helicopter in a warzone and that comes with all the drawbacks that being an aerial vehicle has, potshots are an issue as well as the anti air. You trade that for being threatened by the melee units on the ground, of which Vallis has a lot of really good melee units. The plains might be a bit different.

[BansheePrime]

Yeah. The fact that Amesha with 4 forms of invuln can't even stop the ejections is ridiculous.

[Yuri_Doujinshi]

Itzal can avoid them by either blinking away or using invis, but it's a bit silly that they exist in the first place.

[kapn655321]

30 minutes ago, Cloudyvisage said:

you are using what is, effectively, a small helicopter in a warzone

Well yeah, but it so happens my small helicopter can absorb status like blasts, and consume projectiles.. and have drones that block shots for me..
So it sounded like it would instead be great at that.

Totally wasn't, and a real bummer, too.. because I'm not hanging out on the ground while Everything is a nullifier.

Stay tuned for my next post, "Nullifiers, everywhere. Please, please make it stop."
Followed by, "Why are the lvl 40s hitting like lvl 120s? Please, also make that stop."

I'd love to enjoy the open worlds, DE just want to let me yet.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

5 hours ago, Cloudyvisage said:

I would have preferred the higher damage levels and just have more enemies have them, heck, as it is in the plains anytime you go near a grineer encampment while they are alerted you can expect at least one anti air missile to go up, even if there are barely any enemies there. go to the highly populated areas and the missiles could be coming near constantly. That should be the dissuasion from using Archwing in an area, you have no cover, everything can shoot at you and missiles are constantly going up, forcing you to deal with them.

Some of their camps have anti-air defenses so enemies don't have to actually be present. This does help somewhat train your tactical senses so you don't just run blindly in.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

5 hours ago, Yuri_Doujinshi said:

Itzal can avoid them by either blinking away or using invis, but it's a bit silly that they exist in the first place.

It's not silly though. Wouldn't you (in their shoes) want to be able to defend from air threats with something?

[Yuri_Doujinshi]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Rez090 said:

It's not silly though. Wouldn't you (in their shoes) want to be able to defend from air threats with something?

It's silly from a game design standpoint, not a practical one.

[Xarteros]

8 minutes ago, Yuri_Doujinshi said:

It's silly from a game design standpoint, not a practical one.

It's also silly thematically.

When you have gangs of invisible ninjas that murder millions of your troops like an army of toddlers murdering cupcakes, do you really want to waste your one successful shot at hurting them by taking them out of your line of sight and hurling them into long grass or behind rocks?

Then you're just twaddling about, waiting for gangs of now-annoyed toddler cupcake ninjas to come and claim their smushy vengeance against you and your frosting friends.

I mean seriously, give us some actual damage. Make us feel threatened. Make us see the "incoming projectile" message as more than an error popup, and give us something to sweat about. Of course, take out the nonsense split-second firing between getting into your archwing and being instantly hit by the homing projectiles. Enemies need to actually SEE you getting into your archwing before they start shooting anti-archwing projectiles. But, long story short, change it from an instant-sigh button to a reason to actually pay attention. Bonus points if you can lure the anti-air into enemy ships or troops for extra mastery

[CarrotSalad]

I havent been knocked out of Archwing for ages...

Atleast in Poe, OV i havent ran recently so cant comment on that one. With poe you just need to gun it through some trees or just cast the archwing abilities. Or shoot the turrets before they rotate around to shoot you.

[Nichivo]

8 hours ago, Cloudyvisage said:

It is somewhat awkward to truly use the Archwings in the open world areas, they are entertaining to use as transportation but little else, using their abilities is somewhat dubious, other than itzal.

I would have preferred the higher damage levels and just have more enemies have them, heck, as it is in the plains anytime you go near a grineer encampment while they are alerted you can expect at least one anti air missile to go up, even if there are barely any enemies there. go to the highly populated areas and the missiles could be coming near constantly. That should be the dissuasion from using Archwing in an area, you have no cover, everything can shoot at you and missiles are constantly going up, forcing you to deal with them.

That actually sounds entertaining, you are using what is, effectively, a small helicopter in a warzone and that comes with all the drawbacks that being an aerial vehicle has, potshots are an issue as well as the anti air. You trade that for being threatened by the melee units on the ground, of which Vallis has a lot of really good melee units. The plains might be a bit different.

What? Amesha makes 4 canister Thermia fractures trivial.

[kapn655321]

2 minutes ago, CarrotSalad said:

OV i havent ran recently so cant comment on that one

There are as far as I can tell, 2 units on OV that do it Constantly:
The crewmen fire up homing missiles that do it every time.. these can usually be worked around with abilities.
However one of the turrets has this cube thing that does it Every time.
Doesn't matter if you use abilities, you're going down.. and you will be locked into being knocked down every time after.

I was hoping to farm toroids a little while I leveled up my archwing.
Sounded fun. Totally not an option with those units.
I get that that's what they're going for.. gotta be more difficult than just that for many players..
But some of my best frames get absolutely wrecked on the open world,
meaning, being on the ground is not an option. ...and being in the air is not an option.

I'd really just like to murder bots from my archwing to get some levels.

Overall the open worlds are generally too chaotic and violent.
I love the simple moments of this game that are just a looter shooter.
While I totally respect that there should be moments of steep and
near insurmountable difficulty for the players that crave that,
that can't be the base line every day basic open worlds that MR6 players meet with,
or that a player like myself who has been here for ages can't even get the upper hand on.

This is the kinda stuff that forces people to knuckle down into meta spread sheets,
and later resent how fast that plowed through all the content.
It's one of those little functions that people just grow to avoid, not enjoy.

[kapn655321]

21 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

Amesha makes 4 canister Thermia fractures trivial.

Which is why it's so darn wacky to experience, as an Amesha user..
To be clapped out of the sky every 5 seconds.
That is not an exaggeration.
I've spent probably 10 hours over the last week trying desperately to get the last 5 levels on my Amesha,

I would think open worlds is a Perfect place to do that.
Seems like it would.
Seems like Amesha would be just the thing for the job.
Got a reactor in there, full range and duration...

Half the time I can't even tell exactly how something manages to knock me out,
but it sure happens a lot.

I just want that to tone down.
If they replace that with more damage, the Amesha will feel better respectively for it's healing.
Whether they do that or not, something has to change about how frequent and unavoidable that is.

Like, maybe save that for a specific mission.. or 4/4 security alert, or something.
It's just a bad experience that makes me resent the archwing more, and diminishes my interest in open world.
I can't be the only one thinking, "If it's just this nuts all the time, why even go here?"

Still have not gotten those 5 levels by the way.
Got 1.. not 5. It can't take 10+ hours to level an archwing 5 points,
when the ground is littered with people to kill from it.
Such a tease!!

I just want to put on a forma for the second energy color. -_-
That's all.. and I'll be darned if this game is gonna let me enjoy it sometimes.

Edited October 17, 2019 by kapn655321

[kapn655321]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Rez090 said:

Wouldn't you (in their shoes) want to be able to defend from air threats with something?

I agree that the Corpus would want this.

But unless they want me to play as the corpus instead..
Like maybe make a tower defense mini game,
where the corpus make absolute chumps
out of literal psychic meat mech god figures..

Maybe let the Corpus win.
Maybe the Tenno just need to be pink-bellied endlessly.
Maybe the game just needs to be Really really really unfun for the story to work?

Challenge comes from skill based mechanics, tight controls, thin margins of error..
but ultimately, if it's not fun or avoidable, it's just too difficult to enjoy.
If I, and many other players want to cut loose and enjoy the open worlds,
we've got to be able to feel like we can get control of the situation.

I think in general the open worlds are Way too heavy to enjoy..
and beyond that, players have several methods to make things More difficult if they need that.

When I roll into open worlds with my psychic laser spewing death ninjas,
I don't want to be swatted like a fly, over and over and over...
It's about the gameplay.

It would have made more sense for Vor to kill us right from the start,
and then there's be no game at all. Should we maybe retcon that?
"Cancel Warframe, the enemies are actually kinda smart."

Nah, we, "just narrowly," absolutely slaughter everything we encounter.
It's why they need so many guns.
The fact that we can go in an absolutely destroy them is why we play as these characters.

I mean, maybe there's a market for being the Corpus now, instead
if they are more powerful and enjoyable than playing as the Tenno.
You might be onto something.

[Steel_Rook]

Being ejected out of my Archwing is one of by far my least favourite mechanics in Warframe, and a tacit admission that DE don't know what the hell they're doing when it comes to Archwings. Getting them to let us actually USE our sodding Archwings for which next to no content exists has been like pulling teeth. The initial implementation had limited Archwing Launcher charges so it made sense for AA to knock you out of your Archwing so they could waste said charges, making you grind more. This should have been removed with their current implementation as basically a self-transporation device... But then Archwings themselves would have to be balanced for combat when they really aren't.

The Amesha can't die, for instance. I realise we joke about Inaros and Rhino and Nidus and such being effectively unkillable. The Amesha is literally unkillable. It has a giant impenetrable bubble which can be maintained infinitely with the ability to generate infinite energy. It's what I use to fight Eidolons because they can't hurt me. I've not played the rest of the Archwings extensively, but I assume they're either pointless or similarly overpowered.

Not to mention that there are a total of four Archwings, and I don't count the Odonata Prime as a fifth. If Archwing Combat ever became a thing and it turned out to be practical, all of a sudden we bottleneck player choice down from 30-some Warframes (again, not counting Primes) to four. I mean, at that point maybe we can start teaching pigs to fly and get an actual honest-to-god new Archwing. We got hell to freeze over with the Orb Heists when we got an ACTUAL new Archgun with Hyldrin, so I guess anything is possible. I'm keeping my fingers crossed about Empyrean, because that mode seems to be almost pure Archwing content. If we don't get balance changes and additions to Archwings at THAT point, the whole system is doomed.

Me personally, though? I say just remove the Archwing-disabling aspect of AA missiles and maybe just up their damage some. Take the gamble, let players use Archwings in combat reliably and see where that takes you.