The_Sharp_Demonologist Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Changelog: This is for me to keep track of my progress and stop procrastinating so much, tough you can see it if your interested on whats new. And Before you ask Yes, Krauserlols is my main name, The_Sharp_Demonologist is my fancy Warframe ID. Spoiler 11/10/2019 - Doc Created 12/10/2019 - Created the Psychic Null passive, Mind Control Clarifications, Psychic Bolts additions and Absorb. 13/10/2019 - "Main Source of Mind Control problems" created. 14/10/2019 - Reread and improved wording on Mind Control. 15/10/2019 - Added Augments for Mind Control and Psychic Bolts. - Wrote New visual effect on Mind Control. 16/10/2019 - Corrected a few wording mistakes on Mind Control. - Added "KRAUSERLOLS NOTES" to Mind Control, Psychic Bolts and Absorb. - Added an Alternative change to Absorb mechanics. - Added "Terminology to be used" section. - Ideas Posted on the Forums. - Fixed random spaces in between lines were there shouldnt be. Main Source of Mind Control Problems I think we can all agree Nyx's most problematic ability is Mind Control but maybe not for the reason you think it sucks. Well at least not the only reason. Yes the Mind Controlled Minions still have a bad habit of just sit there tanking all the damage and doing nothing about it or, if it has a gun, run to the nearest cover and fire every now and then. This is a massive issue yes, but one I feel it's easier to fix, it's just broken AI but this is not the main problem of the ability. Mind Control's main Problem are the Minions themselves. This is something that have really been aggravating through the years. Most of Warframe's Enemy units can't keep up with the Tenno, their AI seems to think they are fighting a "normal" third person shooter protagonist like the Gears from Gears of War or Nathan Drake from Uncharted, they lack aggression and the equipment to threaten Tenno. It's like putting CoD:MW2 Russian soldiers against old man Dante or Nero from DMCV. They wouldn't stand a chance. But this is a way bigger issue and I'm already writing about it, gonna tackle it on a separate post. On to the actual retooling. Terminology to be used: Unchanged: The ability/Augment works the exact same way as it does now. Additions: The ability still works the same way with a some added effects. Ability Changes: Changes to Ability Functionality, this could range from Drastic changes to just Retooling already existing mechanics. Psychic Null (Passive) Passive Changes: Nyx's psychic powers allow her to passively convince Enemies she is not as dangerous as others. Reduces her Threat Level, to the point enemies are more likely to attack anything else before Nyx. - Enemies will only attack Nyx if she is the only enemy nearby. - Nyx's Threat Nullification extends to Nyx's Pet/Sentinel. - Even then Enemies will attack Nyx's pet before her. - Nyx's Threat level will remain low and cannot be changed besides outside means like Enemies Marking Nyx or certain mods like Guardian Derision. - Actions that would increase her Threat Level, Capturing a target or Rescuing, will not affect Nyx. Mind Control (1) Description: Nyx invades the psyche of a target, confusing enemies and making them fight for the Tenno cause. Ability Changes: New Visual: A large Nyx helmet made of energy spawns on the Minion's Head. - Enemies aren't invulnerable. - Mind Control Minions cannot be killed by allies but Damage dealt by Nyx or allies will be stored and applied if Mind Control effect wears off. - Effect last until death or manual deactivation. - Can Mind Control Multiple enemies, each blocks part of Nyx's Max Energy by 25 (Affected by Power Efficiency) Until the minion Dies or Mind control is Deactivated/Cleansed. - Mind Control Minions cannot be Cleansed from the effect so long as Nyx is unaffected. - Mind Control can be deactivated by pressing the key while aiming at the Minion or Holding the Button to free all Minions of Mind Control. Krauserlols Notes: So the Original idea is to make it so Nyx can technically have a large squad of Mind Controlled minions however each of them blocks part of her energy, its meant to be a strategic decision between having fewer (Perhaps stronger) Minions but more Energy for abilities or less energy but way more Minions to help you out. From Calculations Nyx can have about 638 Energy (Prime Flow) so that could lead to a LOT of minions while still keeping a substantial Energy pool, or so it seems on paper. Not sure if i should keep the cost static or add a scaling cost for each Minion? Then again increasing the energy cost too much could severely hinder Nyx at early levels and leave new Nyx players with bad first impressions. What you guys think? Augments Mind Freak: Throws Minions into a craze, Disarming them but gaining 300% damage and 150% increased Movement and Attack speed. - Mind Control Minions AI will rush down any enemy they see, same behavior as Infested. - While simpler minded Minions are still able to use their abilities that don't involve their weapons (Hellion Missile barrage, Heavy Grineer Shockwaves, etc). - Mind Freak Bonuses affected by Power Strength. Krauserlols Notes: Still debating if the Power strength should affect both bonuses or just the damage, any thoughts? Psychic Bolts (2) Description: Nyx launches a cluster of force bolts at enemies, using telekinesis to adjust flight paths and seek nearby targets. Hits strip some enemy defenses. Addition: - Maximizes Threat Levels of affected enemies. Synergy: - Mind Control: Mind Controlled Minions consider Psychic Bolts as an order and will focus the affected Targets, ignoring regular Threat Level rules. - Chaos: Maximized Threat levels means all enemies under Chaos will focus down the affected enemies before turning to each other. Augments Pacifying Bolts: Locks enemies minds, rendering them unable to act for 10 Seconds. Unchanged just with more pretentious sounding description. I'm a sucker thematic descriptions. Krauserlols Notes: Before Retooling Mind Control to control multiple units I had a few ideas to change Psychic bolts, but after reading up on the ability the Shield/Armor strip is already good so what if you could use it to direct your Minions like Wukong's Celestial Twin. Then change it to also raise their Threat Level so it mixes with Chaos as well. A simple change/addition with big consequences. Chaos (3) Description: With a powerful psychic blast, Nyx causes mass hysteria on the battlefield by confusing all enemies to attack random factions. Ability and its Augment remain UNCHANGED Absorb (4) Two different Ideas for better Ability Synergy. PSYCHIC DOME Description: Creates a Dense Psychic energy barrier that absorbs incoming damage and Channels the collected energy into an Explosive radial discharge. Ability Changes: - Nyx can only use her abilities while Channeling Absorb. - Now creates a 10 Meter dome allies can get inside. - Each ally inside the Dome will multiply the Explosion damage. - Will count any unit considered an "Ally" (Mind Control Minions, Tenno, Specters, etc) Except for Pets. - Power Range Affects explosion Radius, not the Dome's size. Synergy: - Mind Control: · Minions will rush to the dome and stay inside for the duration, attacking from within if able. · Melee/Disarmed Minions will stay inside the dome and only attack enemies that get too close to the dome. · Minions inside the Dome will be healed for a percentage of the Damage absorbed. · Absorb's Explosion damage will be multiplied for each minion inside the Dome. ABSORB, BUT BETTER Description: Nyx absorbs all incoming damage and channels that collected energy into an explosive radial discharge. Nyx transfers her passive effect to Mind Control Minions while Taunting nearby enemies. Ability Additions: - Mind Control Minions will gain the Psychic Null passive while Nyx's threat level is Maximized. - While Channeling Absorb Nyx can still cast any of her abilities besides Transference. - Damage Absorbed by Absorb will heal Mind Control Minions. - Explosion Radius damage will be Multiplied for each Mind Control Minion At the time of the explosion. - Ex: If Nyx has 4 Minions the explosion is Multiplied by x4. If Nyx Mind controls 3 extra minions while Channeling Absorb the Explosion will be Multiplied by x7. Synergy: Mind Control: - Threat Level reduction allows Minions with high Damage but low HP like Butchers/Ballistas or Support oriented Minions like Shield/Mine Drones to do their Job unhindered. Augments Changes Assimilate: Allows Nyx to move and Attack while Channeling Absorb. Reduces Explosion Range by 50% but Damage Dealt will also contribute to the Explosion. - 10% Of Damage dealt will contribute to Absorb's Explosion. (Only if Dome version is chosen) - Minions will follow Nyx and stay within the Dome as it moves. - Minions will quickly move out of the way if Nyx aims in their direction, Remaining beside or behind her. Singularity: Creates a 3 Meter High Barrier around Nyx maximum Explosion range while Channeling Absorb, enemies who touch the Barrier are pulled into the Explosion radius. - Now it can be used for PvP and PvE. - Power Range will not affect Barrier's Height. - Barrier will toss enemies for about Half the Power's Range. KRAUSERLOLS NOTES: Absorb is the one ability I was determined to change into something that would "Fit better with her theme", but after re-reading her abilities, considering some other options and figured old Absorb could actually work with a few touches. I'm not sure which one to choose. The Dome is a cool idea as an alternative to cover defenses or allies and the Damage Multiplication is a cool coop mechanic I feel the game needs more of. On the other hand the "Absorb but better" Is also a pretty simple solution to make Absorb work better with her other abilities. Honestly I would be fine if the Second one is used and the Dome is reworked into an Augment and maybe the Dome's Size IS affected by Mods? Thats all I got, what you guys think about it? Edited October 17, 2019 by The_Sharp_Demonologist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcyrano Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, The_Sharp_Demonologist said: Mind Control (1) Can Mind Control Multiple enemies, PSYCHIC DOME· Minions inside the Dome will be healed for a percentage of the Damage absorbed. ABSORB, BUT BETTER- Damage Absorbed by Absorb will heal Mind Control Minions. your New mind control on multiple enemies only make chaos worse if you count your passive Healing the mind controlled minions... why? how? what's the actual reason that heals them, Nyx turned bullets, rockets, acid goo, plasma rays, on healing caresses?? She alter perception thru Psychic prowess, Not Reality, But perception On the other hand if you want to use your minions as beacons to blast an area around them with a Psychic blast at the same time you release your 4°, that's Nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)LoisGordils Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 7 hours ago, The_Sharp_Demonologist said: Mind Control (1) Description: Nyx invades the psyche of a target, confusing enemies and making them fight for the Tenno cause. Ability Changes: New Visual: A large Nyx helmet made of energy spawns on the Minion's Head. - Enemies aren't invulnerable. - Mind Control Minions cannot be killed by allies but Damage dealt by Nyx or allies will be stored and applied if Mind Control effect wears off. - Effect last until death or manual deactivation. - Can Mind Control Multiple enemies, each blocks part of Nyx's Max Energy by 25 (Affected by Power Efficiency) Until the minion Dies or Mind control is Deactivated/Cleansed. This is already a thing though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sharp_Demonologist Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 9 hours ago, Jcyrano said: your New mind control on multiple enemies only make chaos worse if you count your passive It makes it better if anything, you get your little Squad of Minions, throw chaos and Enemies will be too busy fighting each other while you and your minions tear into them. And Remember Psychic Null only applies to Nyx and her pet, not the Mind Control Minions. Quote Healing the mind controlled minions... why? how? what's the actual reason that heals them, Nyx turned bullets, rockets, acid goo, plasma rays, on healing caresses?? She alter perception thru Psychic prowess, Not Reality, But perception Wrap your head around how Nyx turns Bullets, Rockets, Acid goo, plasma rays, etc. Into a wave of Psychic energy. My Theory is that she captures the pain that those things would cause and release into a wave of pain straight into the enemies mind, making their body think they have taken all that damage. Mind over brawn and all that. The healing is the same idea but inverted for the Minions. Quote On the other hand if you want to use your minions as beacons to blast an area around them with a Psychic blast at the same time you release your 4°, that's Nice.. Thank you. 2 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said: This is already a thing though Last time i checked Nyx mind control isnt permanent, it has a duration. The other two are just clarifying since my idea for mind control the minions can be killed by the enemy while the current mind control minion is unkillable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenMaster Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I think the Mind Control need to have Status immune so that your minions cannot be stunned or knockback. Similar to having Warframe Specter crafted from Foundry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sharp_Demonologist Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 19 hours ago, XenMaster said: I think the Mind Control need to have Status immune so that your minions cannot be stunned or knockback. Similar to having Warframe Specter crafted from Foundry. OMG PEOPLE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH! Sorry i tough no one would comment. Tenno Specters are status immune? huh havent used them in a long while... Actually i think thats a thing that should apply to certain units already. Tough giving CC inmunity to somehting like a Butcher or Scorpion could be handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jcyrano Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) On 2019-10-17 at 11:12 AM, The_Sharp_Demonologist said: My Theory is that she captures the pain that those things would cause and release into a wave of pain straight into the enemies mind, making their body think they have taken all that damage. Mind over brawn and all that. The healing is the same idea but inverted for the Minions. your theory says: I don't need to cut an Enemy hand to make him believe he lost it and fell the pain... now... How the hekk you convince your minion she still have a hand... IF She can't Grab the Gorgon!!! See it's all in the mind, until you actually need to use that body part and you don't have it cause someone Shoot it OFF of your body... your mind tricks don't heal... WILL NOT HEAL, you tried your best, but... No, I already granted you the Psychic Beacon, Healing NEVER, NO. On 2019-10-17 at 11:12 AM, The_Sharp_Demonologist said: It makes it better if anything, you get your little Squad of Minions, throw chaos and Enemies will be too busy fighting each other while you and your minions tear into them. And Remember Psychic Null only applies to Nyx and her pet, not the Mind Control Minions. No, why would I cast a confussion CC that is Unreliable by default if I can Mind control a Bunch of enemies... so THEY get shotted and not me. You might care for the minions, I don't, they are meat shields with guns... they ARE my enemies, only confused to shoot the ones I also Shoot... they are not friend, you are NOT they friend. On 2019-10-17 at 11:12 AM, The_Sharp_Demonologist said: The other two are just clarifying since my idea for mind control the minions can be killed by the enemy while the current mind control minion is unkillable. great, keep them Killable I like the Killable part, the more the better... Super Killable Edited October 18, 2019 by Jcyrano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenMaster Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 3 hours ago, The_Sharp_Demonologist said: OMG PEOPLE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH! Sorry i tough no one would comment. Tenno Specters are status immune? huh havent used them in a long while... Actually i think thats a thing that should apply to certain units already. Tough giving CC inmunity to somehting like a Butcher or Scorpion could be handy. The warframe specter can be knocked down but getting Heat proc or Impact proc wont get them stunned since they are basically us the players. If you get Heat proc you wont get Panic effect. But the minor AI does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sharp_Demonologist Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Jcyrano said: your theory says: I don't need to cut an Enemy hand to make him believe he lost it and fell the pain... now... How the hekk you convince your minion she still have a hand... IF She can't Grab the Gorgon!!! See it's all in the mind, until you actually need to use that body part and you don't have it cause someone Shoot it OFF of your body... your mind tricks don't heal... WILL NOT HEAL, you tried your best, but... No, I already granted you the Psychic Beacon, Healing NEVER, NO. The gifts of the void are plenty ma boi. Quote No, why would I cast a confussion CC that is Unreliable by default if I can Mind control a Bunch of enemies... so THEY get shotted and not me. You might care for the minions, I don't, they are meat shields with guns... they ARE my enemies, only confused to shoot the ones I also Shoot... they are not friend, you are NOT they friend. Your meant to keep the minions around to help you while Chaos is more like a panic button to confuse the enemies so you can escape, revive or something else while they more likely attack each other. My idea for Psychic bolts basically pointing at a certain enemy so all enemies under chaos and your minions focus it. Quote great, keep them Killable I like the Killable part, the more the better... Super Killable Sure thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sharp_Demonologist Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 2 hours ago, XenMaster said: The Warframe specter can be knocked down but getting Heat proc or Impact proc wont get them stunned since they are basically us the players. If you get Heat proc you wont get Panic effect. But the minor AI does. Oh ok so not CC inmune, just inmune to proc based CC. Yeah that could certainly help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenMaster Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 5 hours ago, The_Sharp_Demonologist said: Oh ok so not CC inmune, just inmune to proc based CC. Yeah that could certainly help. But if DE tend to keep using these minor AI. They should add status immune to every Summonable AI ability to not hinder the AI functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sharp_Demonologist Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 On 2019-10-19 at 4:13 AM, XenMaster said: But if DE tend to keep using these minor AI. They should add status immune to every Summonable AI ability to not hinder the AI functions. Thats the thing Nyx's Mind control relies on the AI to do their job correctly. I do think that DE must improve their AI and work on revamping/retooling faction units so they are more cohesive. In a similar way to Borderlands that new units are introduced as levels rise up and later on units are replaced for stronger variants or even new units all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenMaster Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 28 minutes ago, The_Sharp_Demonologist said: Thats the thing Nyx's Mind control relies on the AI to do their job correctly. I do think that DE must improve their AI and work on revamping/retooling faction units so they are more cohesive. In a similar way to Borderlands that new units are introduced as levels rise up and later on units are replaced for stronger variants or even new units all together. Also dedicated server because AI always go buggy and S#&$ whenever its above 200ms and the host has bad internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raqiya Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 (edited) To be honest, her entire kit needs to go. You've come up with interesting ideas but they still come off as a patchwork fix due to her rather dated kit and limits the ideas you've come up with. I personally feel like her kit should be more like the "Linker" from Tree of Saviour buffing teamates within vicinity and mass debuffing enemies. Here's a video showing off the Linker's abilites so that you hopefully get a better picture of what I'm talking about. Spoiler Edited October 20, 2019 by Raqiya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sharp_Demonologist Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share Posted October 22, 2019 On 2019-10-20 at 6:12 PM, Raqiya said: To be honest, her entire kit needs to go. You've come up with interesting ideas but they still come off as a patchwork fix due to her rather dated kit and limits the ideas you've come up with. I personally feel like her kit should be more like the "Linker" from Tree of Saviour buffing teamates within vicinity and mass debuffing enemies. Here's a video showing off the Linker's abilites so that you hopefully get a better picture of what I'm talking about. Hide contents Hmmm it could definelly have some potential as a Psyker to link people and enemies around... I still think her kit is fine, she only needs good AI enemies to control. If anything i think im gonna go wiht my gut and change Absorb for something else. Maybe that Buff sharing mechanic? wonder how would it interact with normally single target buffs, like Innaros Swarm or augment exclusive buffs like Freeze force... Witch buffs wouldnt be considered? maybe "buffs" that dont count as buffs like Nova's Neutron Star or mechanic exclusive buffs like Necros Shadow shield... You know im gonna write that one down, it has potential as an optional 4... or Chaos as a 4 and a differnt buff sharing.... On 2019-10-20 at 5:57 PM, XenMaster said: Also dedicated server because AI always go buggy and S#&$ whenever its above 200ms and the host has bad internet. wonder what would be harder, dedicated servers or something that guarantees if there is a DC things will remain as they were. Including buffs, possitions and what not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenMaster Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 5 hours ago, The_Sharp_Demonologist said: wonder what would be harder, dedicated servers or something that guarantees if there is a DC things will remain as they were. Including buffs, possitions and what not. Having dedicated server is very important when comes to multiplayer online. Especially players want harder content (supposedly Arbitration) to dodge and not always rush into enemies just because the enemies themselves are lagged to shoot you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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