Atlas’s 1st and 4th Switch?

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

Okay, now I’ve been seeing some posts about Atlas’s abilities and how the frame may be... boring... to use. So my suggestion that could POSSIBLY fix that, at least for me, is to switch his 1st ability with his 4th and turn it into an exalted.

The Rumblers in my opinion aren’t that very good of a 4th ability. And Atlas is basically a boxing frame so figured make Atlas summon an ally as his first an go all Fist of Hercules as his fourth. So here would be the changes:

1st Ability - Summons a single Rumbler that follows Atlas and attacks nearby enemies. The more power strength Atlas has, the bigger and stronger the Rumbler would be. Holding the ability could summon 2 Rumblers with Health and damage split but move quicker.

4th Ability - Holding the button summons Exalted Gauntlets to pummel enemies with Herculean strength. Tapping the 4th would perform a Landslide. Tapping with the gauntlets would either do more damage or use less energy to perform landslide. Synergy with Tectonics where Atlas can perform a Landslide on a wall made by his 3rd to shatter it and send shrapnel flying into the enemies on the other side. Maybe Landslide doesn’t require a target and allow Atlas to travel based on range?

That is sort of the basics. I was sort of picturing Atlas creating big rocky fists(golden knuckles for prime) but more... smooth and artistic than the current pile of rocks Atlas makes when does landslide. And obviously these gauntlets would have their own mod configs so Atlas is not forced to bring a melee to do real damage. Although still an option if you just tap 4th without summoning the gauntlets. 

Now with Wukong and Equinox having allies that shoot enemies, the strength of the current rumblers wouldn’t really change as a 1st ability due to their limited distance and such. 

Augments would still require a bit more thought and maybe discussion to figure out. Kind of picturing Atlas performing quick jabs as part of his landslide that would boost the combo counter faster? Maybe the Rumbler turns into smaller ones the more damage it takes?

Again this is just my opinion and I’m fully open to having a legit logical discussion on the idea. But to me personally, I would use Atlas WAY MORE if this was his ability set-up. Atlas was fun to me as a newbie 3 years ago. But now with so many newer and more enemies to face, he is just... inefficient... or boring to use.

I’ve discussed this with multiple people and they agreed he would be more fun to use this way. And it is not a complete rework. That would be an entirely different post. 

Hope hear more constructive opinions. 

Edited October 19, 2019 by (PS4)chris1pat8twins

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

exalted.

He doesn't need an exalted. He just needs the ability to be good without relying on a stat stick.

I don't think the abilities need to be switched around, but I do like most of your added suggestions, mechanic-wise.

28 minutes ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

Now with Wukong and Equinox having allies that shoot enemies, the strength of the current rumblers wouldn’t really change as a 1st ability due to their limited distance and such. 

I think those examples are exactly why the Rumblers' strength needs to change. Both of theirs are based on 1st abilities. Wukong's is indefinite duration with access to all of your weapons and great AI compared to normal NPCs. Equinox's is duration based, but uses your weapons but at 300% of the damage.

Certainly a base 4th ability should be superior pets than 1st abilities, even augmented ones.

[(PSN)Ragology]

Exalted weapons have 10 less capacity than stat sticks and can't take advantage of synidcate mods or riven mods. While making Landslide an Exalted ability opens up the melee weapon slot, it's also a flat nerf to Landslide itself.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Ragology said:

Exalted weapons have 10 less capacity than stat sticks and can't take advantage of synidcate mods or riven mods. While making Landslide an Exalted ability opens up the melee weapon slot, it's also a flat nerf to Landslide itself.

If they made it into a 4th ability then obviously the landslide itself would be buffed to where it wouldn’t need a riven or any other specific mod to do the same amount of damage. Not to mention I think that is a bug that DE plans to “fix” at a later time. So either way... 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited October 19, 2019 by (PS4)chris1pat8twins

[(PSN)Ragology]

1 hour ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

If they made it into a 4th ability then obviously the landslide itself would be buffed to where it wouldn’t need a riven or any other specific mod to do the same amount of damage. Not to mention I think that is a bug that DE plans to “fix” at a later time. So either way... 🤷🏻‍♂️

I don't like the idea that abilities have to be progressively more powerful as they approach the 4th slot since that promotes the thinking that first abilities are allowed to be bad. While I believe abilities should be visually more appealing as we approach 4, the overall usefulness of a frame should be balanced around all 4 skills without being too heavy handed on a single ability. We spend most of the game with 4 abilities so I'd rather not have that "one lame skill" I never touch. (Or three if you're Titania right?)

 

Iet's say we swap atlas 1 and 4, he's still got a good landslide and lame rumblers. A new forma'd Atlas isn't punching right out of the box, but at least we've freed up a weapon slot. And now rumblers will be weak forever since they're just a first ability and having a weak 1 fits the status quo? I doubt that'll bring in a truckload of new Atlas mains (earth isn't the most popular element on the wheel when compared to flashy things like Electricity, fire and light) but at least it'll be the fix that stops forum complaints. Maybe.

First abilities are generally underwhelming across the board, except those  that've been touched by pablo (Saryn, nidus) or a frame that can use a stat stick (Gara, Khora, Atlas.) There's probably some others but I'm not familiar with all the frames. Aside from players upset that their "kills are being taken" Saryn and Nidus are considered well designed frames for the current state of the game. Synergy without too much dependency, scaling abilities, etc. We could use more of that.

What should stray away from is using placement on the skill bar to determine power level. We've only got 4 abilities so they all should be worth using.

As for your proposed change to landslide, I actually like that it requires a target since it stops me from wasting energy when I'm mashing the button as I hone in on the enemy. When I'm in the thick of things as Atlas, I'd rather not be worried about aim. I just want to swivel the camera and mash landslide until I connect with something haha!

 

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Ragology said:

I don't like the idea that abilities have to be progressively more powerful as they approach the 4th slot since that promotes the thinking that first abilities are allowed to be bad. While I believe abilities should be visually more appealing as we approach 4, the overall usefulness of a frame should be balanced around all 4 skills without being too heavy handed on a single ability. We spend most of the game with 4 abilities so I'd rather not have that "one lame skill" I never touch. (Or three if you're Titania right?)

Iet's say we swap atlas 1 and 4, he's still got a good landslide and lame rumblers. A new forma'd Atlas isn't punching right out of the box, but at least we've freed up a weapon slot. And now rumblers will be weak forever since they're just a first ability and having a weak 1 fits the status quo? I doubt that'll bring in a truckload of new Atlas mains (earth isn't the most popular element on the wheel when compared to flashy things like Electricity, fire and light) but at least it'll be the fix that stops forum complaints. Maybe.

 

 

Thank you, i have always said we should move away from the whole "3 abilities and an ultimate", it diminishes creative potential for Warframe abilities.

My fav example always been Tracer from overwatch, on paper he kit sounds really weak since all she does is zipping around and her ultimate is a small bomb that most of the time only kills one guy and has really short throw range. Compared to something like Symetra summong a giant wall or Reaper's huge AoE ult sounds useless.

THats when balancing comes in, because her abilities make her really slippery and help ultimate charges much faster than everyone else and has enough damage to kill most squishy targets (mostly supports and some carries).

Let the Devs have fun, like how Equinox has two kits in one, Nyx has basically two ultimates (Chaos and Absorb) and Wukong's new clone can has any of your guns so he might as well be the ultimate not the Iron Stick.

Sorry for the rant, just really bothers me.

[Xepthrichros]

You can make his punch exalted without switching them around. Hildryn's balefire is moddable like a exalted secondary and its the first skill

Give rumblers doubled duration, or infinite duration (since wukong clone has it), and let them take commands too. So in addition to what the current 1,2,3 skill do currently, these skill also now issue commands to Rumblers

Press and hold 1 - Runblers punch harder, with the damage of Atlas' exalted fist

Press and hold 2 - Rumblers hold position and one could just stand behind them as a pseudo-cover. Press and hold 2 again and they roll and slam into the nearest enemy. from their position

Press and hold 3: - Rumblers also emit a cone of petrification gaze, so instead of Atlas only petrifying things, we have 3 blasts from 3 angles thus increasing coverage of the skill

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

9 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

You can make his punch exalted without switching them around. Hildryn's balefire is moddable like a exalted secondary and its the first skill

Give rumblers doubled duration, or infinite duration (since wukong clone has it), and let them take commands too. So in addition to what the current 1,2,3 skill do currently, these skill also now issue commands to Rumblers

Press and hold 1 - Runblers punch harder, with the damage of Atlas' exalted fist

Press and hold 2 - Rumblers hold position and one could just stand behind them as a pseudo-cover. Press and hold 2 again and they roll and slam into the nearest enemy. from their position

Press and hold 3: - Rumblers also emit a cone of petrification gaze, so instead of Atlas only petrifying things, we have 3 blasts from 3 angles thus increasing coverage of the skill

Tried suggesting ideas like those but people still commented how they disagree and express that they want a complete rework. To me the exalted gauntlets would make him more fun to use against hordes. Hildryn is not a good example of exalted 1st considering she uses them in her forth ability. Give me an example of a frame with only an exalted 1st ability and no forth. Otherwise Atlas would be the first to have just an exalted 1st. 

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

12 hours ago, The_Sharp_Demonologist said:

Thank you, i have always said we should move away from the whole "3 abilities and an ultimate", it diminishes creative potential for Warframe abilities.

My fav example always been Tracer from overwatch, on paper he kit sounds really weak since all she does is zipping around and her ultimate is a small bomb that most of the time only kills one guy and has really short throw range. Compared to something like Symetra summong a giant wall or Reaper's huge AoE ult sounds useless.

THats when balancing comes in, because her abilities make her really slippery and help ultimate charges much faster than everyone else and has enough damage to kill most squishy targets (mostly supports and some carries).

Let the Devs have fun, like how Equinox has two kits in one, Nyx has basically two ultimates (Chaos and Absorb) and Wukong's new clone can has any of your guns so he might as well be the ultimate not the Iron Stick.

Sorry for the rant, just really bothers me.

Honestly I have no idea what any of that has to do with this post specifically. That sounds more like something you should post in the General section. I’m trying to have a discussion on how Atlas could be more fun to use that wouldn’t require a complete rework like dozens of other have suggested. Switching 2 abilities doesn’t really change how Atlas would be used. Except we would have the option to pummel enemies, including bosses, more. 
 

When I first got atlas three years ago, I punched stalker straight in the face multiple times and took over half his health. No mods cause I didn’t understand the mod system back then. Now I can’t do that to stalker. So now atlas is just not fun to use. Missions take too long to landslide one enemy at a time and constantly shooting gets boring. Too many frames that rely on shooting. Which is why I made the suggestion that I did. And many people I’ve spoken to before making this post agreed with me. 

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Ragology said:

I don't like the idea that abilities have to be progressively more powerful as they approach the 4th slot since that promotes the thinking that first abilities are allowed to be bad. While I believe abilities should be visually more appealing as we approach 4, the overall usefulness of a frame should be balanced around all 4 skills without being too heavy handed on a single ability. We spend most of the game with 4 abilities so I'd rather not have that "one lame skill" I never touch. (Or three if you're Titania right?)

 

Iet's say we swap atlas 1 and 4, he's still got a good landslide and lame rumblers. A new forma'd Atlas isn't punching right out of the box, but at least we've freed up a weapon slot. And now rumblers will be weak forever since they're just a first ability and having a weak 1 fits the status quo? I doubt that'll bring in a truckload of new Atlas mains (earth isn't the most popular element on the wheel when compared to flashy things like Electricity, fire and light) but at least it'll be the fix that stops forum complaints. Maybe.

First abilities are generally underwhelming across the board, except those  that've been touched by pablo (Saryn, nidus) or a frame that can use a stat stick (Gara, Khora, Atlas.) There's probably some others but I'm not familiar with all the frames. Aside from players upset that their "kills are being taken" Saryn and Nidus are considered well designed frames for the current state of the game. Synergy without too much dependency, scaling abilities, etc. We could use more of that.

What should stray away from is using placement on the skill bar to determine power level. We've only got 4 abilities so they all should be worth using.

As for your proposed change to landslide, I actually like that it requires a target since it stops me from wasting energy when I'm mashing the button as I hone in on the enemy. When I'm in the thick of things as Atlas, I'd rather not be worried about aim. I just want to swivel the camera and mash landslide until I connect with something haha!

 

Imagine if Slash Dash and Exalted Blade were one in the same. That’s basically what Landslide as a forth would become. Forth abilities require more energy to use majority of the time. Which would mean they would be more powerful. I even offered many ideas for how the abilities could have synergy. Like turning the walls into shrapnel and even could make the Rumblers follow Atlas’s command. Of course that post was met with comments demanding a complete rework of atlas instead. 
 

Switching the abilities wouldn’t change how atlas is currently used except with the added bonus to pummel more enemies. I also said “maybe” to the whole removing target requirement. But if he can summon big gauntlets to pummel non targetable enemies then such a suggestion wouldn’t be needed but I would still like to be able to reach further with landslide. But basically holding the button would summon or remove exalted gauntlets while tapping would still perform landslide. Maybe landslide performed with the gauntlets could do more damage or use less energy. 
 

This isn’t some complete rework. You’re talking as if I’m suggesting a complete rework of atlas when all I’m asking for is that atlas gains exalted gauntlets which switching his 2 abilities would allow that without changing how people currently use him. I’m simply suggesting more of an add on than anything. 
 

The only change you’d have to adjust to is having to wait till level 10 to use landslide after you polarize Atlas. And new players would know the difference. 

Edited October 19, 2019 by (PS4)chris1pat8twins

[Gurpgork]

Here's my question. What makes the exalted fist worth using? 

Like if you're going to add it, I like the idea of leaving the current Landslide on the tap version of the ability, but it still begs the question of why I would use the exalted fist. Like never have I used Landslide and thought about how I would rather use a version of the ability that drained energy per second, had no I-frames, and didn't have the dash. 

So what unique, useful and/or interesting mechanic will it have to make sure that the exalted first is not totally overshadowed by the tap ability? 

[(PSN)Ragology]

7 hours ago, (PS4)chris1pat8twins said:

This isn’t some complete rework. You’re talking as if I’m suggesting a complete rework of atlas when all I’m asking for is that atlas gains exalted gauntlets which switching his 2 abilities would allow that without changing how people currently use him. I’m simply suggesting more of an add on than anything. 

I don't think Atlas needs a complete rework. I also don't understand the difference between a rework and an adjustment ( Are adjustments just minor reworks? Are major adjustments a regular rework? Honestly sounds like a  battle of semantics that I'm ill equipped to handle.)

 

 

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

20 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Here's my question. What makes the exalted fist worth using? 

Like if you're going to add it, I like the idea of leaving the current Landslide on the tap version of the ability, but it still begs the question of why I would use the exalted fist. Like never have I used Landslide and thought about how I would rather use a version of the ability that drained energy per second, had no I-frames, and didn't have the dash. 

So what unique, useful and/or interesting mechanic will it have to make sure that the exalted first is not totally overshadowed by the tap ability? 

Well for starters landslide can do a decent amount of damage with a melee that has some decent mods on. If DE were to use my idea of exalted gauntlets then the landslide would probably have like a higher critical chance(like 15-20% instead of 5%) and the slide would be probably like 2x more damaging. With all the damage balancing stuff DE has to do it is complicated trying to get perfect numbers without being too OP.

I was thinking that Landslide could do more damage or use less energy(or both) when the gauntlets are out. Similar to when you sue exalted blade and use slash dash. But while exalted blade and slash dash can hit multiple targets, the exalted gauntlets would do more impact damage over all. Again the numbers would be up to DE but the augment idea of allowing atlas to do rapid punches for more overall damage while stacking the combo multiplied faster would benefit both parts of the ability. Landslide requires targeting an enemy while the gauntlets can be used for a lot of things.

Such as: 

1). Wide radius ground slam. Roughly 15 meters compared to other weapons.

2). Could perform a sonic clap that hits enemies with more force.

3). What ever other ideas for attacks y’all suggest.

Landslide could be upgraded to reach further the more range you have too. And during guns only sortie missions, the exalted gauntlets would provide landslide the melee buff. 

This is why I try to have a discussion about how DE could go about changing/improving Atlas instead of just saying that ideas suck or what we would personally want. Even though I spoke to like 6 other people I know about the idea, I can only vouch for myself on this post. But they all agreed that the idea would make atlas more fun to use. Especially against bosses where landslide can’t target them. 

But landslide over all would do more damage than a single punch but that would use more energy over time depending on your builds. And having a little synergy where you perform basically a Gauntlet Slide for more overall damage and less energy would make neither overshadow the other. Especially when you’re trying to move quickly while attacking enemies all around you. 

DE would have to decide on the kind of stance they would prefer. But if there is a way they could take some of the unique aspects of each stance and apply it to the ability then that would be nice. Would be cool if Atlas actually dodged multiple attacks from enemies while in that stance and avoid majority of the damage vs other frames. 

And there is still a lot more ideas for how the gauntlets would work and be more unique but that requires way too much texting and my phone’s autoINcorrect makes it very difficult. Which is part of why I like to actually discuss the ideas and come to a sort of mutual agreement. 
 

But right now I want Atlas to be improved for greater combat against hordes and bosses. But I’m not asking for a complete rework. 

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)Ragology said:

I don't think Atlas needs a complete rework. I also don't understand the difference between a rework and an adjustment ( Are adjustments just minor reworks? Are major adjustments a regular rework? Honestly sounds like a  battle of semantics that I'm ill equipped to handle.)

 

 

Rework is basically like what DE is doing to Vauban right now. Even ember. Ember will have a different ability where she send meteors down onto the enemies. Which is funny cause I made an idea for a volcanic frame to have that ability years ago but most recently a month ago with a drawing. 
 

But then there are changes like Ash’s Blade Storm. It use to require simply targeting an enemy and Ash will automatically target like 19 other dudes and kill them all one a very quick animation. Then he was changed where he is required to target each enemy by simply looking at them. Now he does the same thing as the previous but you get to choose to be a part of the animation by using his third ability. Or you can just let your Shadow Clone Jutsu kill the guys while you run off with data mass or something. Which even I sometimes hate the ability cause teammates kill the enemies too quickly for me to fully pull it off. I have to do several 360s in like 2 seconds and recast before teammates get the chance to kill my targets. A small change yet very complicated to pull off in a squad. But regardless the ability itself is basically still the same. 
 

Just landsliding one enemy at a time gets boring and annoying especially in guns only missions. The suggestion I’m making would allow him to do more and in any kind of mission. And for enemies that can be targeted by abilities the gauntlets would allow you to do more damage. While the rumblers just remain as they are but as a first based on the Wukong and equinox allies that can shoot lots of enemies. Wukong and equinox can kill way more enemies with their first than atlas can with his forth. It is pretty pathetic if you ask me. Figured switching abilities and added gauntlets would be the easiest DE could do and be fun to use. And as a tap 4th ability, DE would have a legit excuse to upgrade the landslide for better use. Energy to cast wouldn’t change that much. DE has done all kind of stuff I didn’t know they were willing to do. And all kind of tricks and synergies a lot of players aren’t aware of. 
 

Again it is just my opinion. And like 6 other dudes. But I’m all for other suggestions or further details or ideas for the current post. With Vauban and Ember rework coming soon and Grendel, Atlas Prime will be forgotten. Unless he already has. He was fun at first since I was a newbie and wasn’t in any rush nor did I understood the farming/grinding of this game. But now he is a frame I hardly use and hardly see anybody else use. Not to mention he is boxer even his signature weapon explains a lot. Just figure DE could branch off more on that aspect of him. Go all Nemean Cestus on them.