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Twistedsparkle

candidates for the next reworks

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vauban and ember reworks are finally on their way
and I cant wait to get my hands on them

one thing I have always wondered why do reworks happen like once in a blue moon??
I really do wish we wouldnt have to be frustrated with outdated kits for sometimes years!

I do understand that these things are not on the number one priority list but honestly I think they should be
what is more important than whole new content? breathing life and sustaining old content thats what I think atleast

anyways these are the frames I think that do need a touch up
this is a big list and I do intend to update it

 

Spoiler

1.Excalibur, Mag, Volt shared spot
the starter frames! why? awhile back we got the new cinematic that is gonna be the official cinematic intro
in that intro all 3 excal,mag and volt portrayed powers currently not in the game

I think it would be fair to make the frames represent themselves as they were in the trailer so that new players wont feel "cheated"

for excalibur I think he needs most effort and revision for his radial javelin which is very poorly aged and currently just lacks in the damage department

for mag I think her concept could have a deeper look into it, would be awesome that she could hold and throw enemies with her 1st ability

for volt I expect a proper and full rework I think his kit is the most lackluster out of all 3
he needs it all, better stats,remove restrictions,damage,buff durations,make him more fun to play

2.Atlas!
many were disappointed when his prime came out that his kit wasnt updated
his 1st ability still uses stat sticks and that sucks because it renders your melee almost unusable when maximized
tectonics is still a wall that doesnt really do anything, its poor as defensive ability and when changed to boulder it just doesnt do damage
his rumblers are not doing any damage and many think it doesnt make sense for them to have duration
instead would be awesome to make them synergize with your castings and give them celestial twin style rework
also if your landslide would become separetaly moddable your rumblers could benefit from the same mods

3.Chroma and mirage
both share very similar problems and in many ways are very similar frames

chromas 1st ability is just... really bad
it looks stupid, doesnt do damage, just a waste or energy
his 2 and 3 are so similar that they might aswell be the same ability and his 4 is a turret that is just lame
I know this sounds immature as heck but I want my dragon boi be able to Breathe fire (not drool fire that doesnt do anything as it is now) and fly like a real dragon
all that while still being top tier dmg buffer and tank!

mirage has a similar problem of that she has 2 abilities that buff damage
speaking of her 3 why cant she change buffs willingly? also shouldnt the dark form be pseudo invisible as the ability description kinda lets to believe?
her 2 has such amazing concept but its just so niche and conditional I think it would be awesome if it would be a toggled aura instead and remove the thing that it uses drops
also her prism is not very relevant as of now it just kinda doesnt do enough

4.trinity
oh trinity our main healer and still one of the better support frames
her kit is great except for her 1st ability but its very out of date and feels clunky to use

5.Ash
I think his kit could synergize better overall
like shurikens could mark targets for ulti

6.Valkyr
our berserker kitty and melee queen
her kit would be the perfect candidate to have a full blown rework at the same time as melee 3.0 releases
I think her base stats could use a touch up
more sprint speed and health to match her melee focused playstyle


her ripline is such a cool concept and I kinda want her to have this ability in the future
right now its a slow locked animation and enemies you pull just fly past you instead of going to your feet would be awesome if it could function like mortal kombats scorpion spear on steroids!
so you could pull multiple enemies directly to your feet and I think it should be one handed action or atleast open animation so you wouldnt be locked into it pausing the action
it would also be cool if ripline could be used reversely so you could pull yourself to enemies so it would be awesome moving from enemy to enemy and increasing mobility
and keeping the momentum on

as a mobility tool it feels very "early warframe" kinda thing Im not sure if its possible on the current engine but spiderman like swing mechanics would be amazing

her warcry is awesome but maybe make it recastable during the use so you could take advantage of the slow it does?
maybe give it a little bit more depth?

her 3 is so braindead simple
it opens enemies for finishers which is cool but... thats it?
again I think it should be open animation and heres an Idea what if it could reflect projectiles on top of that? kinda like mini absorb but way way faster and you could use it reflexively?

her ulti is something Ive always pondered
why invulnerability? it just makes the ability so safe to use making it bit boring?
instead I think it should boost her health,give her health regen, boost armor even further and innate berserker on top of the existing life steal
and remove the increasing efficiency loss and make that aura positive instead of negative what it is now, after all now she would be vulnerable but way more dangerous while her claws are out making her a real Berserker

7.nekros
he still is the best loot frame and sadly thats what he is used for primarily
he is also really really squishy without niche builds and many players have voiced this frustration over the years

I think he should have more emphasis on his initial Idea which is of course necromancer
his 1st is light cc and its not very good I think something completely new could take over this spot or major revision

his 2 terrify is a larger scale cc and the Idea is awesome making enemies "terrified"
but just by itself without the augment this ability is nothing more than a panic button at best

desecrate still is extremely valuable tool and I dont think it shouldnt be touched too heavily but I do think desecrating enemies could be used to possibly buff his ulti

speaking of which shadows of the dead is so friggin cool in concept
it is such a shame that ingame its nothing more than aggro disperser
I think making your shadows benefit from your mod loadout and removing the health decay would make wonders
as well as making the AI more persistent following you and target the enemies you are targeting
and maybe making desecrate restore lost shadows without additional ulti cast

overall synergy between his kit would be awesome

I am merely voicing my thoughts and opinions to serve as feedback
by no means I think these suggestions should be absolute

ty for reading :)) 

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Valkyr and Valkyr only! Heavly outdated and forgoten she's gonna sit where Vauban and Ember were if Melee 3.0 will ignore her needs for a complete rework

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Nekro is boring as hell to play.  His 1-3 need total reworks.   Actually Terror would be pretty damn sick if they just changed the direction enemies ran and reverse the augment/power so that they would move SLOW towards necro un-augmented, and FAST if u augment.   Shield of shadows is just not squad friendlly,  the shadows needs to not interfere with vision/bullets.  I hat single target abilities especially when you have to aim them.  Soul Punch is beyond stupid because it ragdolls enemies.   It should be a seeking ability that hard stuns ones target,  maybe if you kill the target then everyone in X radius is healed or gains energy or something.    Desocrate is perfect but it would be nice if it was immune to nullifiers/bubbles/being shut off by enemies...   Roid hunting with him sucks and he is also one of the weakest looters in the game now...but makes up for it with range/body parts.

I never used atlas before his prime dropped.   I like his petrify..  his punch feels weak tho,  rumblers dont last long enough/do enough damage its just a tiny distraction(I like the AoE petrify it unleashed but range is very small.  His wall would actually be super cool it 100% grabbed aggro of everything in range..  I dont know how it works but ony some stuff goes for the wall lol.  But I try to use it for crowd control and to bunch enemies up and when it works like that its awesome.  

Petrify needs to have visible zone to see where petrify will hit,  Like nidus this ability has an angle of effect but you have no way of WIDENING the angle...I would also like energy color outlines on stuff turned to stone just to help see the victoms lol  Rock foes out on PoE is hard to see.  Rumblers should be like octavia ball?? run around smashing the ground dealing % damage to enemies.  (x2 damage if enemies are petrified).  Or rip out the rumblers and just change it into 360 degree petrify with more range call it shockwave,  Atlas punching the ground anmation.  I would love his wall to get cranked up.   100% aggro draw, force enemies to want to melee the wall they get bunched up.   You could recast to blow it up and deal damage to everything nearby and or petrify them.   Rockslide needs to have alot high base damage and NOT ragdoll enemies.  

Valkyr is nice as is.  Hysteria, Warcry,  Scream.   Only her zipline sucks.    But having said that she could definately use more offensive cast abilities.  Warcry is on/off,  Hysteria u save until you need or have a large crowd.  I use Paralysis scream to hunt kavat dna/smash things/ suck enemies into melee range.  But I also use a different build for Ewar when I wanna focus on supporting squad.  But she doesnt really have abilities to just dish out damage.    Maybe if zipline would pull enemies to YOU instead of flinging them at you or you to THEM.   But I think zipline should get canned and a new ability added.  

Garuda's was cool but her self damage for energy has a horrible ratio,  her passive that gives her damage bonus when she is near death is probably way to low.  From 100% hp to 50% hp she should get a damage bonus of 1:1 %.  From 50% to 1% health it should be like 2-4:1%   The more damage she has taken the stronger she gets and when she is near-death she is insanely strong.   I think her blood altar deserves more base range since its immobile.  Conversely you could make Garuda stick an enemy on her arm spikes and carry them around with her lol so her healing is mobile.  

Gara's wall sucks for defense.  Needs to be a sphere.  When part of the wall breaks it should make whole thing shatter and blender enemies like Shattering Lash.  Gara as is, is better suited to offense than defense.  But I am good with that, she is hella fun to use like that.   But maybe if you made her wall a sphere you could then give us a wall augment to turn the wall into a defense only ability where its unbreakable like before so we could use gara for defense to.   

-------------

But yeah Nekros I think is the most deserving of a rework.   I really like atlas.  Atlas Prime is super cool looking,  super tanky,  petrifying enemies makes him feel pretty offensive.  He could just use some tweaks to make him even more fun.   I slapped some Lua Unairo lens's on him so he is what i use to farm unairo focus so I am using him alot right now(cuz that school was still locked before atlas prime lol).  Now im gathering focus to unbind my first waybound(in unairo).   I love his wall being good for a tiny bit of defense and crowd control.  I love tanky/melee frames the most but Atlas feels alot more fun than valkyr/garuda.  Nidus was my latest tanky/melee love and its super hard to compete with his Larva.  But atlas's wall is a cool alternative/different feeling.   

 

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Equinox imo, it's been 4 years and no significant changes have been made to her, still super clunky to use unless you treat her as just a single frame with 3 abilities 

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When it comes to reworks,i can see 2 groups

There is 1 group that need a complete rework like ember and Vauban,while there is another that only needs touch ups/buffs to their abilities and possibly their respective augments,like loki and maybe mirage and frost?

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I hope Mirage get's reworked.

Her 1 is a complete disaster. it is so strong, that there are several weapons nerfed, because of this one ability alone, for example the Simulor.

Her 1 is not only fat to strong, but, when you think about it, also extremly boring.

You just press 1 button and get a lot of passive damage and passive damage-prevention for a rather long time.

 

Then there is her 2, which is simply not even worth casting.

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Id like to see Mirage get a rework.  I think that is solid. 

Sadly the two who did get a rework need another one.

Titania and Nyx.

Titania's Lantern is...meh.  Her passive is also meh.  

Make her tribute like Wisps motes.  And for the love of Hek punching souls out of bodies is Nekros's job.  Not hers.

Nyx is great.  But her passive is meh as well.  

I do like psychic bolts with the Augment.  I barely cast chaos anymore.  But everyone strips armor now.  So like...she needs some love.  Also. I hate absorb. I just really do.  Id rather see a Psychic Stealth or something to bolster team play that no one else can do.  Even if its not damage and a support like Trinity id be happy.

Hek.  Make it a loot booster.  Enemies hand you their cash and stuff.  

 

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I would say Nyx, because her kit is pure cc and has no damage or self sufficiency. She also squishy frame and her essence is to controll the battlefield but in the time where there are nullifiels her ability to shine is very limited.

Chroma is 2 but mostly 1 trick frame because his Vex armor is his selling point and his 1-4 abilities are just there to fill the slot.

Atlas can be good if his golems could get some ai reinforcement and his wall actually could be useful. The wall could be longer to block more area also could be good to drop more than one. Petrify is an ability what never fitted well to him and I could imagine that ability on a real medusa / gorgon frame. His first is only good if there are enough enemy nearby to use on them.

Loki because he is the crocodile of warframe which exists millions of years in the same shape. He is not that urgent for rework and he can just have tweaks but his decoy could be something more useful. Invisibility can get some tweaks on him other than that I see nothing special to do for him. Oh, forgot his passive, that could see a change.

Maybe Volt, but he is currently fine, what I could see on him is more base movement speed and a little more armor. Other than that he is fine as it is.

Excallibur, because his radial javellin is very out of place and his other abilities have more synregy. Also if you count his ultimate can do radial blind, you could merge both abilities and add 2 new or just 1 new ability because the blind itself is a great cc but that is the same as Vauban Bastille and Vortex.

Valkyr is outdated and she needs a better ability to replace her ripline and her ultimate can also get some love other than that she is still tanky frame.

I do think the rest of the rooster is now okay, may you can mention tweaks but I don't think a mass rework needed for those other frames.

 

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I still hope Loki gets a rework eventually, every frame should have more than one useful ability. And I hope one day Nekros gets made into an actual Nekromancer frame instead of only being a farming frame that becomes worthless to anyone who doesn't need more resources.

Though just like Vauban I do wonder how long it'll be until Nyx gets a rework since CC is still dead. She isn't that bad currently but her redeeming qualities can be achieved by any more tankier frame or a squad running Corrosive Projection.

Beyond these three I don't think any other frames really need full on reworks and can have problems solved by base value buffs, additional scaling, and/or added synergy.

Like Chroma's 1 and 4 could be fixed by buffing their base damage, giving them far more base range, and something like gaining 150% of the damage buff from Vex armor.

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I want to say mag, because I do love her, she holds a special place in my heart as my first and anything to make her better would be amazing, particularly in the survivability department, but... Beyond updating pull with the hold-to-cast shown in the cinematic trailer and changing magnetize so you can dispel it at will (and then update the augment that does that to reliably disarm enemies as opposed to the 50% chance that feels like 30%) I can't really think of much to change about her. Her 4 could certainly use improving, but I'm stumped as to ideas, and her 3 is fairly balanced, all things considered

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31 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Then there is her 2, which is simply not even worth casting.

The augment actually makes it a decent nuke for farming defense.

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hmm i would say Nekros 

Nekros 1 completely useless in combat, his 2 are cool but it have cap on how many enemies can affected by it.

maybe they could turn his 1/2 into a debuff abilities that make enemies explode on death or something dealing % dmg based on max health/equipped weapon dmg

edit
nvm this doesn't bring anything new to his kit, he is fine right now

 

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I will comment from the frames I played enough ( which excludes Ash, Baruuk, Hydroid, Hildryn, Loki, Limbo, Nezha, Nidus, Titania and Zephyr):

Atlas, not fully. Just smooth over some skills.

Chroma skills 1&4.

Mag, pull and passive. Probably a bit more damage and sustain all cross as well.

Mirage, skills 2&3.

Nyx, entire kit.

Valkyr, entire kit.

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I think most people on the forums really want a Saryn "rework" somehow...

I can't really understand this, because Saryn is a very good frame at the moment. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_IGN said:

Nekro is boring as hell to play.  His 1-3 need total reworks.   Actually Terror would be pretty damn sick if they just changed the direction enemies ran and reverse the augment/power so that they would move SLOW towards necro un-augmented, and FAST if u augment.   Shield of shadows is just not squad friendlly,  the shadows needs to not interfere with vision/bullets.  I hat single target abilities especially when you have to aim them.  Soul Punch is beyond stupid because it ragdolls enemies.   It should be a seeking ability that hard stuns ones target,  maybe if you kill the target then everyone in X radius is healed or gains energy or something.    Desocrate is perfect but it would be nice if it was immune to nullifiers/bubbles/being shut off by enemies...   Roid hunting with him sucks and he is also one of the weakest looters in the game now...but makes up for it with range/body parts.

I never used atlas before his prime dropped.   I like his petrify..  his punch feels weak tho,  rumblers dont last long enough/do enough damage its just a tiny distraction(I like the AoE petrify it unleashed but range is very small.  His wall would actually be super cool it 100% grabbed aggro of everything in range..  I dont know how it works but ony some stuff goes for the wall lol.  But I try to use it for crowd control and to bunch enemies up and when it works like that its awesome.  

Petrify needs to have visible zone to see where petrify will hit,  Like nidus this ability has an angle of effect but you have no way of WIDENING the angle...I would also like energy color outlines on stuff turned to stone just to help see the victoms lol  Rock foes out on PoE is hard to see.  Rumblers should be like octavia ball?? run around smashing the ground dealing % damage to enemies.  (x2 damage if enemies are petrified).  Or rip out the rumblers and just change it into 360 degree petrify with more range call it shockwave,  Atlas punching the ground anmation.  I would love his wall to get cranked up.   100% aggro draw, force enemies to want to melee the wall they get bunched up.   You could recast to blow it up and deal damage to everything nearby and or petrify them.   Rockslide needs to have alot high base damage and NOT ragdoll enemies.  

Valkyr is nice as is.  Hysteria, Warcry,  Scream.   Only her zipline sucks.    But having said that she could definately use more offensive cast abilities.  Warcry is on/off,  Hysteria u save until you need or have a large crowd.  I use Paralysis scream to hunt kavat dna/smash things/ suck enemies into melee range.  But I also use a different build for Ewar when I wanna focus on supporting squad.  But she doesnt really have abilities to just dish out damage.    Maybe if zipline would pull enemies to YOU instead of flinging them at you or you to THEM.   But I think zipline should get canned and a new ability added.  

Garuda's was cool but her self damage for energy has a horrible ratio,  her passive that gives her damage bonus when she is near death is probably way to low.  From 100% hp to 50% hp she should get a damage bonus of 1:1 %.  From 50% to 1% health it should be like 2-4:1%   The more damage she has taken the stronger she gets and when she is near-death she is insanely strong.   I think her blood altar deserves more base range since its immobile.  Conversely you could make Garuda stick an enemy on her arm spikes and carry them around with her lol so her healing is mobile.  

Gara's wall sucks for defense.  Needs to be a sphere.  When part of the wall breaks it should make whole thing shatter and blender enemies like Shattering Lash.  Gara as is, is better suited to offense than defense.  But I am good with that, she is hella fun to use like that.   But maybe if you made her wall a sphere you could then give us a wall augment to turn the wall into a defense only ability where its unbreakable like before so we could use gara for defense to.   

-------------

But yeah Nekros I think is the most deserving of a rework.   I really like atlas.  Atlas Prime is super cool looking,  super tanky,  petrifying enemies makes him feel pretty offensive.  He could just use some tweaks to make him even more fun.   I slapped some Lua Unairo lens's on him so he is what i use to farm unairo focus so I am using him alot right now(cuz that school was still locked before atlas prime lol).  Now im gathering focus to unbind my first waybound(in unairo).   I love his wall being good for a tiny bit of defense and crowd control.  I love tanky/melee frames the most but Atlas feels alot more fun than valkyr/garuda.  Nidus was my latest tanky/melee love and its super hard to compete with his Larva.  But atlas's wall is a cool alternative/different feeling.   

 

Agree to disagree on Valkyr.

Her one is horrendous, that it seems we agree on. I have only used it for the lols. I wish her one just rushed enemies somehow.

Her two has too long of a cast time and lock and requires a mod for a good build.

Her three is also rather pointless beyond the nightwave task of performing finishers.

Her four is best used as an "oh no" moment to heal up but you're better off just going in and out of operator mode since the animation time to activate your four seems too long imo. Also claws in general are pretty meh when it comes to range even if you mod for more range and the hysteria claws combos are subpar to the point ppl just spin2win.

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17 minutes ago, Afterburner_X said:

I think most people on the forums really want a Saryn "rework" somehow...

I can't really understand this, because Saryn is a very good frame at the moment. 

That's why the want it; Saryn is kind of overpowered

There's a reason a max range/moderately high strength build is called a genocide build... or is that just me?

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valkyr(uselles warframe with very uselles skills and augments)

titania...meh warframe.

Atlas....need big visual upgrades. I dont like to use the walls and rumblers because they look like a poo...poo prime.

nyx but DE dont have good ideas for this one.

and nerf saryn range...every match with saryn is extremely boring !

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18 minutes ago, Afterburner_X said:

I think most people on the forums really want a Saryn "rework" somehow...

I can't really understand this, because Saryn is a very good frame at the moment. 

No...its not good. Its called a cheat fframe ...kill everything before we can see enemies....

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1 hour ago, NoobDeGuerra said:

Equinox imo, it's been 4 years and no significant changes have been made to her, still super clunky to use unless you treat her as just a single frame with 3 abilities 

Couldn't agree more.

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